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Re: Ives and Schoenberg

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  • mira
    Hello, I have a somewhat similar question. Cowell states in the Bio, that Mrs. Ives confirmed to Kirkpatrick in 1968 that Ives had never met nor heard a note
    Message 1 of 10 , Oct 28, 2007
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      Hello,
      I have a somewhat similar question. Cowell states in the Bio, that
      Mrs. Ives confirmed to Kirkpatrick in 1968 that Ives had never met nor
      heard a note from Bartók. Although Swafford leaves the quetion open,
      suggesting that it is possible that Ives heard Bartók and Szigeti
      playing in February 1928 in a Pro Musica Concert in New York, but I
      don't find a word on Bartók in the writings of Ives (I have only the
      Essays and the Memos, is there anything else?). Do you, Ives-experts
      and fans know anything about it?
      Thanks in advance,
      Mira
      an Ives-fan too, although a beginner in that :-)





      --- In charlesives@yahoogroups.com, "dthurmai" <cei1874@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hello (first time posting!),
      >
      > The quotation you're referring to from Schoenberg came from a page
      found by his wife
      > after his death (which she sent to Ives). Schoenberg wrote some
      nice words about Ives
      > that sound remarkably similar to what he might have written about
      himself:
      >
      > There is a great Man living in this Country--a composer.
      > He has solved the problem how to preserve one's self and to learn.
      > He responds to negligence by contempt.
      > He is not forced to accept praise or blame.
      > His name is Ives.
      >
      > (see Cowell's bio, p. 114)
      >
      > Ives always claimed he "hadn't heard a note of Schoenberg's music,"
      though Swafford
      > points out (pp. 382-3) that "as an avid reader of the journals
      *Musical Quarterly* and
      > *Modern Music* he had at least seen excerpts and read a good many
      analytical words on
      > Schoenberg." It is probably true that Ives didn't know Schoenberg's
      music while writing
      > most of his own music, but his later claims of ignorance were surely
      dubious.
      >
      > Best,
      >
      > David Thurmaier, Ph.D.
      > Assistant Professor of Music Theory
      > Florida Gulf Coast University
      >
      >
      > --- In charlesives@yahoogroups.com, Random Particle <ranpar2000@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Hello,
      > >
      > > Something occured to me. Mahler may not have known about Ives.
      But what about
      > Arnold Schoenberg?
      > >
      > > I remember a quote from Schoenberg about Ives on a record I used
      to listen to when I
      > was in high school in the ´70s, Noel Lee´s wonderful performance of
      the 1st Piano Sonata,
      > on the Nonesuch label. I don´t have the record any more. But the
      quote couldn´t have
      > been bogus, could it? Does anybody know any more about what
      Schoenberg thought of
      > Ives, how he found out about him etc.?
      > >
      > >
      > > a composer in Nicaragua
      > >
      > >
      > > ---------------------------------
      > > Tonight's top picks. What will you watch tonight? Preview the
      hottest shows on Yahoo!
      > TV.
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      >
    • mira
      ....and do you know, Ives-experts, anything about my previous question?... nobody? :_(
      Message 2 of 10 , Dec 11, 2007
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        ....and do you know, Ives-experts, anything about my previous
        question?... nobody? :_(







        --- In charlesives@yahoogroups.com, "mira" <zene_bona@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hello,
        > I have a somewhat similar question. Cowell states in the Bio, that
        > Mrs. Ives confirmed to Kirkpatrick in 1968 that Ives had never met nor
        > heard a note from Bartók. Although Swafford leaves the quetion open,
        > suggesting that it is possible that Ives heard Bartók and Szigeti
        > playing in February 1928 in a Pro Musica Concert in New York, but I
        > don't find a word on Bartók in the writings of Ives (I have only the
        > Essays and the Memos, is there anything else?). Do you, Ives-experts
        > and fans know anything about it?
        > Thanks in advance,
        > Mira
        > an Ives-fan too, although a beginner in that :-)
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In charlesives@yahoogroups.com, "dthurmai" <cei1874@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Hello (first time posting!),
        > >
        > > The quotation you're referring to from Schoenberg came from a page
        > found by his wife
        > > after his death (which she sent to Ives). Schoenberg wrote some
        > nice words about Ives
        > > that sound remarkably similar to what he might have written about
        > himself:
        > >
        > > There is a great Man living in this Country--a composer.
        > > He has solved the problem how to preserve one's self and to learn.
        > > He responds to negligence by contempt.
        > > He is not forced to accept praise or blame.
        > > His name is Ives.
        > >
        > > (see Cowell's bio, p. 114)
        > >
        > > Ives always claimed he "hadn't heard a note of Schoenberg's music,"
        > though Swafford
        > > points out (pp. 382-3) that "as an avid reader of the journals
        > *Musical Quarterly* and
        > > *Modern Music* he had at least seen excerpts and read a good many
        > analytical words on
        > > Schoenberg." It is probably true that Ives didn't know Schoenberg's
        > music while writing
        > > most of his own music, but his later claims of ignorance were surely
        > dubious.
        > >
        > > Best,
        > >
        > > David Thurmaier, Ph.D.
        > > Assistant Professor of Music Theory
        > > Florida Gulf Coast University
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In charlesives@yahoogroups.com, Random Particle <ranpar2000@>
        wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Hello,
        > > >
        > > > Something occured to me. Mahler may not have known about Ives.
        > But what about
        > > Arnold Schoenberg?
        > > >
        > > > I remember a quote from Schoenberg about Ives on a record I used
        > to listen to when I
        > > was in high school in the ´70s, Noel Lee´s wonderful performance of
        > the 1st Piano Sonata,
        > > on the Nonesuch label. I don´t have the record any more. But the
        > quote couldn´t have
        > > been bogus, could it? Does anybody know any more about what
        > Schoenberg thought of
        > > Ives, how he found out about him etc.?
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > a composer in Nicaragua
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > ---------------------------------
        > > > Tonight's top picks. What will you watch tonight? Preview the
        > hottest shows on Yahoo!
        > > TV.
        > > >
        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > > >
        > >
        >
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