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Re: [charlesives] Gender Gap

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  • Gene Halaburt
    ... That s the one that came to my mind too -- I have had the pleasure of hearing Ms. Alsop conduct on three occasions, and ALL were memorable. If you have the
    Message 1 of 11 , Dec 5, 2005
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      >At 08:34 AM 12/5/2005, Michael wrote:
      >
      > >I think that classical music (modern or otherwise) is overwhelmingly male
      > >-- one only has to watch the difficulty that female conductors have in
      > >securing positions, not just in the US but everywhere in western music --
      >
      >The most notable recent example being Marin Alsop and the Baltimore Symphony.

      That's the one that came to my mind too --

      I have had the pleasure of hearing Ms. Alsop conduct on three occasions, and
      ALL were memorable. If you have the chance, do not miss seeing/hearing her.
      -Gene
    • Anne Ozorio
      ....and Alsop isn t, shall we say, universally loved , and not because of her gender. Nonetheless the glass ceiling is all too real. Soloists, especially
      Message 2 of 11 , Dec 5, 2005
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        ....and Alsop isn't, shall we say, "universally loved", and not
        because of her gender. Nonetheless the glass ceiling is all too
        real. Soloists, especially pianists, overcome this, but a conductor
        is a manager as well as musician and perhaps there's an unconscious
        bias.

        As for fans, I think there are lots more women around, they just
        don't do much on the net. There are lots pf reasons. One is that
        most women have to juggle kids, jobs etc. It takes more than average
        dedication for the a working mother to listen seriously and writing
        seriously is just too much sometimes. Another reason is
        s that the net is very macho and there are a lot of trolls about. In
        male birds you get "display behaviour" to establish a pecking order.
        So too in male dominant lists. Yet another reason is that net
        discussions tend to be oriented towards "classification" eg
        remembering what label, issue date etc. recordings are done, while
        women tend to think more "empathically" eg what a composer is trying
        to express. Of course this is generalisation, but it holds true.

        I don't think it's Ives specifically. Opera and vocal lists have
        easily more women participants than men, and general lists like
        lampson are fairly mixed. It's not that women don't listen, they
        just don't write much. Recently I was reading about Pierre Boulez
        and Domaine, the organisation he set up to bring new music to France
        in the 1950's. It got off the ground because of the patronage of
        women who had the taste to listen in depth and the money to back him.
        Some of those women were formidably good music analysts and had the
        guts to stick their necks out for the avant garde. Some of those
        early supporters are most definitely still around and still very
        aware about what's happening in music. Maybe it's because by and
        large women are more open to change, I don't know, it's a wide open
        generalisation.




        Anne
        anne.ozorio@...
      • Patrick Petit
        I have contacted Donald Berman which informed me that he will record an anthology of Ives songs with Susan Narucki, in his future release.Probably for New
        Message 3 of 11 , Dec 5, 2005
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          I have contacted Donald Berman which informed me that he will record
          an anthology of Ives' songs with Susan Narucki, in his future
          release.Probably for New World Records.

          Patrick

          > >In Songs of course, from Helen Boatwright to Susan Graham ,i think the
          > >best performances was often made by females voices,if i believe the
          > >Scott's survey of Recording.
          >
          > Excellent reminder, Patrick! Thank you!
          > -Gene
          >
        • Gene Halaburt
          ... And I think it only fair to remind ourselves that strides have been made within orchestra membership. One has only to compare photographs of orchestras of
          Message 4 of 11 , Dec 5, 2005
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            At 10:36 AM 12/5/2005, Anne wrote:

            >....and Alsop isn't, shall we say, "universally loved", and not
            >because of her gender. Nonetheless the glass ceiling is all too
            >real. Soloists, especially pianists, overcome this, but a conductor
            >is a manager as well as musician and perhaps there's an unconscious
            >bias.

            And I think it only fair to remind ourselves that strides have been made within
            orchestra membership. One has only to compare photographs of orchestras of
            say 50 years ago with orchestras of today.

            -Gene
          • anthony cole
            Well, Patrick has stolen most of my thunder - again - but it is interesting how many of the stronger sex have given great performances of Ives music - in
            Message 5 of 11 , Dec 5, 2005
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              Well, Patrick has stolen most of my thunder - again - but it is interesting how many of the stronger sex have given great performances of Ives' music - in addition to the two very great pianists - Coleman & MacGregor - and all those wonderful singers (top o' the heap still de Gaetani for my money) - we have the Beckova sisters, 3/4 of the Lydian String Quartet and half of the Kronos..........Tony
              ps: I'm sure that Anne's explanation of the paucity of female involvement in this website is correct - they're still out there making sure that the really important matters of life are being attended to!
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Gene Halaburt
              To: charlesives@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 4:12 PM
              Subject: Re: [charlesives] Gender Gap


              At 10:36 AM 12/5/2005, Anne wrote:

              >....and Alsop isn't, shall we say, "universally loved", and not
              >because of her gender. Nonetheless the glass ceiling is all too
              >real. Soloists, especially pianists, overcome this, but a conductor
              >is a manager as well as musician and perhaps there's an unconscious
              >bias.

              And I think it only fair to remind ourselves that strides have been made within
              orchestra membership. One has only to compare photographs of orchestras of
              say 50 years ago with orchestras of today.

              -Gene



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