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Re: [charlesives] Gender Gap

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  • Gene Halaburt
    ... That s the one that came to my mind too -- I have had the pleasure of hearing Ms. Alsop conduct on three occasions, and ALL were memorable. If you have the
    Message 1 of 11 , Dec 5, 2005
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      >At 08:34 AM 12/5/2005, Michael wrote:
      >
      > >I think that classical music (modern or otherwise) is overwhelmingly male
      > >-- one only has to watch the difficulty that female conductors have in
      > >securing positions, not just in the US but everywhere in western music --
      >
      >The most notable recent example being Marin Alsop and the Baltimore Symphony.

      That's the one that came to my mind too --

      I have had the pleasure of hearing Ms. Alsop conduct on three occasions, and
      ALL were memorable. If you have the chance, do not miss seeing/hearing her.
      -Gene
    • Gene Halaburt
      ... Excellent reminder, Patrick! Thank you! -Gene
      Message 2 of 11 , Dec 5, 2005
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        At 10:07 AM 12/5/2005, Patrick wrote:

        >Agree Donna Coleman is the best female performer in Ives piano
        >music,but not the only one .Nina Deutsch had recorded a famous piano
        >anthology in VoxBox, and after Donna Coleman,in 1991 Louise Bessete
        >from Canada has recorded the Concord too.Another great pianist is
        >Joanna MacGregor the best recording of the First Sonata according to
        >Scott.
        >In Chamber Music the first to record the second Violin Sonata was
        >Patricia Travers,and Joan Field premiered the First and Third Violin
        >Sonata.Another fine performance was the duet Marilyn Dubow and Marsha
        >Cheraskin Winokur in the second and Third Sonatas, recently Anne Akiko
        >Meyers had played the Fourth ,and i don't forget the Bekova Sisters
        >in the Piano Trio.
        >In Organ Music they are many female performers of Variations on
        >America: Carolyn Shuster Fournier,Yun Kyong, Joyce Jones ,Claudia
        >Dumschat,and Marian Ruhl Metson .
        >In Songs of course, from Helen Boatwright to Susan Graham ,i think the
        >best performances was often made by females voices,if i believe the
        >Scott's survey of Recording.

        Excellent reminder, Patrick! Thank you!
        -Gene
      • Anne Ozorio
        ....and Alsop isn t, shall we say, universally loved , and not because of her gender. Nonetheless the glass ceiling is all too real. Soloists, especially
        Message 3 of 11 , Dec 5, 2005
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          ....and Alsop isn't, shall we say, "universally loved", and not
          because of her gender. Nonetheless the glass ceiling is all too
          real. Soloists, especially pianists, overcome this, but a conductor
          is a manager as well as musician and perhaps there's an unconscious
          bias.

          As for fans, I think there are lots more women around, they just
          don't do much on the net. There are lots pf reasons. One is that
          most women have to juggle kids, jobs etc. It takes more than average
          dedication for the a working mother to listen seriously and writing
          seriously is just too much sometimes. Another reason is
          s that the net is very macho and there are a lot of trolls about. In
          male birds you get "display behaviour" to establish a pecking order.
          So too in male dominant lists. Yet another reason is that net
          discussions tend to be oriented towards "classification" eg
          remembering what label, issue date etc. recordings are done, while
          women tend to think more "empathically" eg what a composer is trying
          to express. Of course this is generalisation, but it holds true.

          I don't think it's Ives specifically. Opera and vocal lists have
          easily more women participants than men, and general lists like
          lampson are fairly mixed. It's not that women don't listen, they
          just don't write much. Recently I was reading about Pierre Boulez
          and Domaine, the organisation he set up to bring new music to France
          in the 1950's. It got off the ground because of the patronage of
          women who had the taste to listen in depth and the money to back him.
          Some of those women were formidably good music analysts and had the
          guts to stick their necks out for the avant garde. Some of those
          early supporters are most definitely still around and still very
          aware about what's happening in music. Maybe it's because by and
          large women are more open to change, I don't know, it's a wide open
          generalisation.




          Anne
          anne.ozorio@...
        • Patrick Petit
          I have contacted Donald Berman which informed me that he will record an anthology of Ives songs with Susan Narucki, in his future release.Probably for New
          Message 4 of 11 , Dec 5, 2005
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            I have contacted Donald Berman which informed me that he will record
            an anthology of Ives' songs with Susan Narucki, in his future
            release.Probably for New World Records.

            Patrick

            > >In Songs of course, from Helen Boatwright to Susan Graham ,i think the
            > >best performances was often made by females voices,if i believe the
            > >Scott's survey of Recording.
            >
            > Excellent reminder, Patrick! Thank you!
            > -Gene
            >
          • Gene Halaburt
            ... And I think it only fair to remind ourselves that strides have been made within orchestra membership. One has only to compare photographs of orchestras of
            Message 5 of 11 , Dec 5, 2005
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              At 10:36 AM 12/5/2005, Anne wrote:

              >....and Alsop isn't, shall we say, "universally loved", and not
              >because of her gender. Nonetheless the glass ceiling is all too
              >real. Soloists, especially pianists, overcome this, but a conductor
              >is a manager as well as musician and perhaps there's an unconscious
              >bias.

              And I think it only fair to remind ourselves that strides have been made within
              orchestra membership. One has only to compare photographs of orchestras of
              say 50 years ago with orchestras of today.

              -Gene
            • anthony cole
              Well, Patrick has stolen most of my thunder - again - but it is interesting how many of the stronger sex have given great performances of Ives music - in
              Message 6 of 11 , Dec 5, 2005
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                Well, Patrick has stolen most of my thunder - again - but it is interesting how many of the stronger sex have given great performances of Ives' music - in addition to the two very great pianists - Coleman & MacGregor - and all those wonderful singers (top o' the heap still de Gaetani for my money) - we have the Beckova sisters, 3/4 of the Lydian String Quartet and half of the Kronos..........Tony
                ps: I'm sure that Anne's explanation of the paucity of female involvement in this website is correct - they're still out there making sure that the really important matters of life are being attended to!
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Gene Halaburt
                To: charlesives@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 4:12 PM
                Subject: Re: [charlesives] Gender Gap


                At 10:36 AM 12/5/2005, Anne wrote:

                >....and Alsop isn't, shall we say, "universally loved", and not
                >because of her gender. Nonetheless the glass ceiling is all too
                >real. Soloists, especially pianists, overcome this, but a conductor
                >is a manager as well as musician and perhaps there's an unconscious
                >bias.

                And I think it only fair to remind ourselves that strides have been made within
                orchestra membership. One has only to compare photographs of orchestras of
                say 50 years ago with orchestras of today.

                -Gene



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