Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [cerebus] latest issue

Expand Messages
  • Tony Palermo
    ... From: Unovis Reply-To: cerebus@yahoogroups.com To: Subject: [cerebus] latest issue Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002
    Message 1 of 4 , Apr 1 10:31 AM
    • 0 Attachment
      ----Original Message Follows----
      From: "Unovis" <groups@...>
      Reply-To: cerebus@yahoogroups.com
      To: <cerebus@yahoogroups.com>
      Subject: [cerebus] latest issue
      Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 14:33:04 -0800

      Spoiler warning needed I assume...


      I haven't finished reading the issue. I just got to the middle of the book
      actually, but I wanted to write down what I was thinking in the last three
      pages. So if you care, go back to the issue and go to the middle of the book
      and then turn back a page...

      The panel where Spore picks up Magenta seems to me be a rip off (not meant
      negatively) of Peanuts where Charlie Brown is trying to kick the ball Lucy
      is holding. That Cerebus was dressed as Charlie Brown earlier makes this
      assumption probably true...

      The next page is where Spore declares to get rid of the babies. I am
      currently in the middle of rereading Tangents. Part of Tangents went into
      how females would by choice not choose to be females. In that situation,
      there could be no propagation of species. This is the same as Spore/(Cerebus
      being God) proclaiming to get rid of babies. While in C&S Cerebus proclaims
      he did it for no reason other than they smell, that seems to me to be have
      been more spur of the moment that I read this issue. It seems he purposely
      is throwing this baby away. It does seem consistent with the Tangent
      conclusion although that is/was not the point of either Tangent nor this
      page. Since I just read it I haven't formulated a full opinion which is why
      I wanted to jot this down immediately.

      The above is a misinterpretation in any case, as on the following page Spore
      tells them not to throw the babies away but to give them back to their
      mothers. How does this fit in with Mother/Daughter religion debates in the
      earlier issues? A mother without the child is no longer a mother. If the men
      in the land, (I admit I haven't been close reading the last couple of issues
      so maybe I missed why they had the babies) are taking the children from the
      mothers, this makes them fathers. And since fathers are something Dave seems
      to dislike in Tangents, ...dammit, someone came to the door and I lost my
      train of thought...

      Let me finish the issue and maybe I will write back...

      (hmmm...I sent the email and it was bounced back...in the meantime I
      finished the issue...all of 4 pages later it seems...heh heh...

      So my last statement to make is that a spore, as far as I recall, is thrown
      to the wind and falls where it may. It isn't organized into a group sent
      somewhere with an agenda. The fact that is exactly what Spore is doing with
      his horde of men is a contradiction. It is on the tip of my mind but I have
      this feeling in my reread of Tangents that this is all bullshit. That what
      Dave states is so patently a contradiction that there is something "fishy"
      going on. The conclusions and arguments in Tangent are so far out in some
      instances that it seems to be Dave doesn't believe them but that he is
      actually taking the opposite view point from his own in order to prove his
      real point. (like an exercise in college where one has to argue that which
      one does not believe just to understand the process. Dave of course
      understands the process but could be using it to make his ultimate
      point...only 2 years more to get there...) That most, if not everyone misses
      that possibly is not surprising given that most of the Tangent is, to me at
      least, rather feasible. My point in bringing this up is that somewhere after
      Cerebus is done we will be able to go through this book in as close a read
      as Dave has done with Hemmingway, et al and we can get to the truth. But the
      contradictions with Spore/a spore still leads me to think that it is done on
      purpose. Dave is to smart not to know what a spore is so it is highly likely
      that he is going to take this religious/anti women argument to the illogical
      extreme in the last few dozen issues.

      Of course I could be completely naive and completely wrong...)

      Jim Guarnotta
      unovis@...


      T replies:
      I am thinking along the same lines that you bring up in your e-mail; i.e.
      that DS IS taking the Extreme Illogical religion/anti-feminism slant...I,
      like you, could be wrong but it certainly Smells that way.
      T





      "Women should be obscene and not heard."
      Groucho Marx



      _________________________________________________________________
      Join the world�s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
      http://www.hotmail.com
    • Tony Palermo
      T replies: I have to DITTO here again (Good Stuff!!!). I have thought Another Ascension is a possiblity (a rising action of some sort) and that, a-yep, Cerebus
      Message 2 of 4 , Apr 2 1:51 PM
      • 0 Attachment
        T replies:
        I have to DITTO here again (Good Stuff!!!).
        I have thought Another Ascension is a possiblity (a rising action of some
        sort) and that, a-yep, Cerebus would address Dave. I like ALL of your stuff
        above...except for the Deni part at the end.
        ;-)

        BUT...would not the End of CEREBUS (300) be like an interesting Flip-Flop of
        the
        end of M/D? Cerebus and Dave talk. Dave tells Cerebus to go away. Cerebus
        Does. Dave regrets this decision. Dave and Cerebus talk again. And like
        Cerebus leaping 'what a maroon'style back into His World...so does Dave with
        the completion of 300.

        That would be Great.
        T









        I also, at one time, had thoughts like these... in the same way that
        other posters refer to the "meta-story" of Cerebus. My thinking was
        that at some point, as the Cerebus storyline would begin to wind
        down, as it's doing now, wouldn't it just be tremendously clever and
        thought-provoking if Cerebus partook in another grand ascension out
        into the stars, and met "Dave" again, as sort of a companion piece
        to "Minds"... except in this ensuing dialogue, it is not "Dave" who
        tries to save Cerebus from himself, it is not "Dave" who springs the
        baker and bread analogy on the little bastard... but vice-versa?

        Dave has written in detail about being "voted off society's island"
        Survivor-style. Is it possible that there could be an Ascension
        dialogue in which it is Cerebus who tells his Creator to get with the
        program, turn your fucking life around, quit all your little wars
        with the world, and learn how to be happy for once?

        And the bewildered "Dave" character, having just been told off by his
        creation, will look around his surrounding office forlornly... He
        looks back, but Cerebus has disappeared. "Cerebus! Come back!" he
        shouts.

        Suddenly there is the sound of an opening door, and a voice
        saying, "Good afternoon. Could I trouble you... for... a..." and he
        looks up, and there stands Deni, eyes watering, rushing forward with
        arms extended. "It's you! It's really you!" And Dave and Deni go
        running hand in hand off into the sunset, going home.

        Now /that/ would be an ending!

        Okay, enough of that. Love, Jonathan





        "Women should be obscene and not heard."
        Groucho Marx



        _________________________________________________________________
        Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
      • mre81
        ... fishy ... some ... is ... prove his ... I ve long wondered about the possibility that Dave is stringing us along, though perhaps inconsistently. Taking
        Message 3 of 4 , Apr 8 11:15 PM
        • 0 Attachment
          > ----Original Message Follows----
          > From: "Unovis" <groups@u...>
          > Reply-To: cerebus@y...
          > To: <cerebus@y...>
          > Subject: [cerebus] latest issue
          > Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 14:33:04 -0800
          >

          > That what
          > Dave states is so patently a contradiction that there is something
          "fishy"
          > going on. The conclusions and arguments in Tangent are so far out in
          some
          > instances that it seems to be Dave doesn't believe them but that he
          is
          > actually taking the opposite view point from his own in order to
          prove his
          > real point.

          I've long wondered about the possibility that Dave is stringing us
          along, though perhaps inconsistently. Taking advantage of our
          tendency to seriously consider anything he states in order to make a
          point about the ease and power of propaganda. I mean, I hope so, you
          know? It would hearken back to his examinations of power and image
          from HS and C&S. If so, it's quite a risk, but not necessarily
          admirable on that basis alone. I agree that it ain't over til it's
          over, but I don't think (as some have suggested) that we need to
          refrain from interpretation until 2004. Even if he pulls a last
          minute rabbit out of his rhetorical hat, the bloody sight of a woman
          getting sawed in half was less than entertaining.

          Nice exegesis on the Spore/spore, by the way.

          --Mr.E
        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.