Re: [cerebus] latest issue
- ----Original Message Follows----
From: "Unovis" <groups@...>
Subject: [cerebus] latest issue
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 14:33:04 -0800
Spoiler warning needed I assume...
I haven't finished reading the issue. I just got to the middle of the book
actually, but I wanted to write down what I was thinking in the last three
pages. So if you care, go back to the issue and go to the middle of the book
and then turn back a page...
The panel where Spore picks up Magenta seems to me be a rip off (not meant
negatively) of Peanuts where Charlie Brown is trying to kick the ball Lucy
is holding. That Cerebus was dressed as Charlie Brown earlier makes this
assumption probably true...
The next page is where Spore declares to get rid of the babies. I am
currently in the middle of rereading Tangents. Part of Tangents went into
how females would by choice not choose to be females. In that situation,
there could be no propagation of species. This is the same as Spore/(Cerebus
being God) proclaiming to get rid of babies. While in C&S Cerebus proclaims
he did it for no reason other than they smell, that seems to me to be have
been more spur of the moment that I read this issue. It seems he purposely
is throwing this baby away. It does seem consistent with the Tangent
conclusion although that is/was not the point of either Tangent nor this
page. Since I just read it I haven't formulated a full opinion which is why
I wanted to jot this down immediately.
The above is a misinterpretation in any case, as on the following page Spore
tells them not to throw the babies away but to give them back to their
mothers. How does this fit in with Mother/Daughter religion debates in the
earlier issues? A mother without the child is no longer a mother. If the men
in the land, (I admit I haven't been close reading the last couple of issues
so maybe I missed why they had the babies) are taking the children from the
mothers, this makes them fathers. And since fathers are something Dave seems
to dislike in Tangents, ...dammit, someone came to the door and I lost my
train of thought...
Let me finish the issue and maybe I will write back...
(hmmm...I sent the email and it was bounced back...in the meantime I
finished the issue...all of 4 pages later it seems...heh heh...
So my last statement to make is that a spore, as far as I recall, is thrown
to the wind and falls where it may. It isn't organized into a group sent
somewhere with an agenda. The fact that is exactly what Spore is doing with
his horde of men is a contradiction. It is on the tip of my mind but I have
this feeling in my reread of Tangents that this is all bullshit. That what
Dave states is so patently a contradiction that there is something "fishy"
going on. The conclusions and arguments in Tangent are so far out in some
instances that it seems to be Dave doesn't believe them but that he is
actually taking the opposite view point from his own in order to prove his
real point. (like an exercise in college where one has to argue that which
one does not believe just to understand the process. Dave of course
understands the process but could be using it to make his ultimate
point...only 2 years more to get there...) That most, if not everyone misses
that possibly is not surprising given that most of the Tangent is, to me at
least, rather feasible. My point in bringing this up is that somewhere after
Cerebus is done we will be able to go through this book in as close a read
as Dave has done with Hemmingway, et al and we can get to the truth. But the
contradictions with Spore/a spore still leads me to think that it is done on
purpose. Dave is to smart not to know what a spore is so it is highly likely
that he is going to take this religious/anti women argument to the illogical
extreme in the last few dozen issues.
Of course I could be completely naive and completely wrong...)
I am thinking along the same lines that you bring up in your e-mail; i.e.
that DS IS taking the Extreme Illogical religion/anti-feminism slant...I,
like you, could be wrong but it certainly Smells that way.
"Women should be obscene and not heard."
Join the world�s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
- T replies:
I have to DITTO here again (Good Stuff!!!).
I have thought Another Ascension is a possiblity (a rising action of some
sort) and that, a-yep, Cerebus would address Dave. I like ALL of your stuff
above...except for the Deni part at the end.
BUT...would not the End of CEREBUS (300) be like an interesting Flip-Flop of
end of M/D? Cerebus and Dave talk. Dave tells Cerebus to go away. Cerebus
Does. Dave regrets this decision. Dave and Cerebus talk again. And like
Cerebus leaping 'what a maroon'style back into His World...so does Dave with
the completion of 300.
That would be Great.
I also, at one time, had thoughts like these... in the same way that
other posters refer to the "meta-story" of Cerebus. My thinking was
that at some point, as the Cerebus storyline would begin to wind
down, as it's doing now, wouldn't it just be tremendously clever and
thought-provoking if Cerebus partook in another grand ascension out
into the stars, and met "Dave" again, as sort of a companion piece
to "Minds"... except in this ensuing dialogue, it is not "Dave" who
tries to save Cerebus from himself, it is not "Dave" who springs the
baker and bread analogy on the little bastard... but vice-versa?
Dave has written in detail about being "voted off society's island"
Survivor-style. Is it possible that there could be an Ascension
dialogue in which it is Cerebus who tells his Creator to get with the
program, turn your fucking life around, quit all your little wars
with the world, and learn how to be happy for once?
And the bewildered "Dave" character, having just been told off by his
creation, will look around his surrounding office forlornly... He
looks back, but Cerebus has disappeared. "Cerebus! Come back!" he
Suddenly there is the sound of an opening door, and a voice
saying, "Good afternoon. Could I trouble you... for... a..." and he
looks up, and there stands Deni, eyes watering, rushing forward with
arms extended. "It's you! It's really you!" And Dave and Deni go
running hand in hand off into the sunset, going home.
Now /that/ would be an ending!
Okay, enough of that. Love, Jonathan
"Women should be obscene and not heard."
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
> ----Original Message Follows----"fishy"
> From: "Unovis" <groups@u...>
> Reply-To: cerebus@y...
> To: <cerebus@y...>
> Subject: [cerebus] latest issue
> Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 14:33:04 -0800
> That what
> Dave states is so patently a contradiction that there is something
> going on. The conclusions and arguments in Tangent are so far out insome
> instances that it seems to be Dave doesn't believe them but that heis
> actually taking the opposite view point from his own in order toprove his
> real point.I've long wondered about the possibility that Dave is stringing us
along, though perhaps inconsistently. Taking advantage of our
tendency to seriously consider anything he states in order to make a
point about the ease and power of propaganda. I mean, I hope so, you
know? It would hearken back to his examinations of power and image
from HS and C&S. If so, it's quite a risk, but not necessarily
admirable on that basis alone. I agree that it ain't over til it's
over, but I don't think (as some have suggested) that we need to
refrain from interpretation until 2004. Even if he pulls a last
minute rabbit out of his rhetorical hat, the bloody sight of a woman
getting sawed in half was less than entertaining.
Nice exegesis on the Spore/spore, by the way.