176848Re: [cerebus] OK, help me out with Tangent(s)
- Jul 9, 2013My initial reaction upon reading Tangent was "Wow. Dave finally let it all fly. Brutal honesty. In this Marxist-feminist-dominated culture, *someone* finally had the guts to tell it like it is."Yikes, is he ever going to catch Marxist-feminist hell for this."And catch hell he did, even from his "fans".When he says "women want...a woman is...women are...", he is making "the Rule" as he has witnessed and observed, both personally and via secondhand accounts. Yes, there are some women who "prove" the Rule, but they are the Exception.I have found his observations to be more True than false.Someone "misogynistic" would *not* treat Women in the gentlemanly and genteel manner that Dave treats women (as is the way he treats most everybody, for that matter)...but he is a bulldog with his truth, and he will not compromise it for the sake of conforming to this culture's ideas of What Is and What Is Not Permitted to be said about (observing) Women's behaviors and actions.Your post was very well stated and thought out...there are (many) others who have not been nearly as kind to Dave Sim here. :)When you went through Tangent and said "WHAT?", that was exactly what Sim was going for...TTM, From: raycornwall <ray@...>
Sent: Tuesday, July 9, 2013 9:36 PM
Subject: [cerebus] OK, help me out with Tangent(s)
I'm a long-time Cerebus reader- started and got caught up right after Melmoth (which I still swear to this day is a masterpiece), bought every issue and phonebook, but fell off the read right around Form & Void. I had all the issues, but just kept saying to myself, "I'll do a big full read of all 300 issues someday!" Well, someday is now, and in fact, I just finished Form and Void, about to go into Latter Days.
I also promised myself that when done, I'd determine whether or not to sign the peititon. I figured that if I read all 300 issues and the backmatter (yes, I'm reading the back pages too- Aardvark Comment, ads, Single Pages, everything), I'd be as qualified as anyone about signing the doc.
I got through 186 again- less nasty than I remembered. Most of Dave's venom was really aimed at the institute of marriage and feminism. Not my opinions, and I think he completely discounts any reasons why men get married other than sex, but hey, not inherently misogynistic. There's a comment in one of the post-186 issues in which he takes a cheap shot at the number of male graphic novelists vs. female graphic novelists, but not enough to tip the scale.
Got through Guys, Rick's Story, and Going Home. I had no problem with the Jeff Smith fight bit- if Jeff never said to his face about giving him a "fat lip" and then pronounced to the world that he did, well, I'd be tempted to say the same thing. Lots of knocks on feminism, but again, knocks on feminism aren't inherently misogynistic.
Then comes Tangent.
"...a.) women want to be raped by rich, muscular, handsome doctors b.) women are completely self-absorbed and, thus, see themselves in everything around them"
"A woman is going to do whatever makes her cheerful at the moment and that, in my experience, is the extent of her perception of ethics."
And it goes on and on. The intellectual arguments against feminism (again, not my beliefs or rational conclusions, but okay) suddenly become belief-based rants against women. The complete break happens when he goes, "For feminists, for wives, for women, for Emotion-based beings...". Since in the piece he earlier declares "Women are Emotion-based beings", I have a hard time seeing any point in arguing that Dave no longer sees women and feminists as two different creatures.
The rest of the piece continues in this spiral- no longer trying to argue points of reason, he's spouting things he believes while trying to argue that women are emotion-based while men are, what, reason-based creatures? Every problem under the sun becomes a problem created by feminists and homosexualists, with no blame assigned to men.
And there are over 500 people who have signed a petition stating Dave (who is a major influence on my life, and who has been unfairly pillored for a lot of things that I don't think are fair, and has been the subject of numerous hatchet jobs by fan pubs) isn't a misogynist.
And I'm left thinking, "Dave probably isn't a misogynist. But he just might be bugfucking gobsmacked nuts." And I hate to say that, because I know he struggled with mental illness issues earlier in life, and I don't want to pick on him. But what other conclusion is left?
The nicest thing I can say about Tangent is that it happened right when Diana and Carol quit on him, and maybe it's an emotional post from a guy who normally doesn't do emotional posts. And yet, Tangent was at least already started when Carol left (that's why she quit).
I really hate that this is my first post to the group. I really wanted it to be after I finished The Big Read. I'm still in shock over the Cerebus/Jaka breakup- I knew it was coming, the relationship had gone so wrong, and yet the breakup still hurt, which meant Dave did it right.
But, seriously, how do you get through Tangent and not, y'know, go "WHAT?"
Hoping this generates more light than heat.
- << Previous post in topic Next post in topic >>