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Photo album created

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  • Charles & Dana Scott
    I have created a new photo album for the Freedom 15 I am fabricating. It is called, with great originality, Corky s Freedom 15 and is in the photo section
    Message 1 of 6 , May 2, 2010
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      I have created a new photo album for the Freedom 15 I am fabricating. It is
      called, with great originality, "Corky's Freedom 15" and is in the photo
      section of the our yahoo group.



      Corky Scott



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • James D. Marco
      Corky, Great pics so far, keep up the good work! jdm ... James Marco, 302 Mary Lane, Ithaca, NY 14850 607-273-9132 [Non-text portions of this message have been
      Message 2 of 6 , May 2, 2010
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        Corky,
        Great pics so far, keep up the good work!
        jdm
        At 04:07 PM 5/2/2010, you wrote:
        >I have created a new photo album for the Freedom 15 I am fabricating. It is
        >called, with great originality, "Corky's Freedom 15" and is in the photo
        >section of the our yahoo group.
        >
        >
        >
        >Corky Scott
        >
        >
        >
        >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        >------------------------------------
        >
        >Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        James Marco,
        302 Mary Lane,
        Ithaca, NY 14850
        607-273-9132


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • James D. Marco
        Corky, I see you have several pieces of plane sawn wood in your boat. As you are aware, this can cause some ripples in the boat, especially if the strips are
        Message 3 of 6 , May 3, 2010
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          Corky,
          I see you have several pieces of plane sawn wood in your boat.
          As you are aware, this can cause some ripples in the boat, especially
          if the strips are numbered and stacked. For others on the list, I found
          this reference:
          http://www.guillemot-kayaks.com/guillemot/information/kayak_building/strip_built_construction/cove_and_bead_strips
          He does a pretty good job of explaining why it is important to use quarter
          sawn strips, or, sharp planes/fresh sandpaper to fare the boat with plane
          sawn wood. Generally on the sides it is OK, and, on the stems & trim, but
          the hull bottom wants to be as smooth flowing as possible.
          While quarter sawn boards as stock are generally preferred for house
          trim and siding, ripping boat strips will result in plane sawn strips from this
          "preferred" stock, since you turn the strip 90 degrees to the board face. The
          preferred boat strip can be better made from cheaper plane sawn boards.
          The resulting 90 degree roll will give a clean quarter sawn strip. Easier to
          work with generally, too.
          Overall, the minor ripples will increase hull friction quite a bit. Some
          people, Jenson and other purists, say quite a bit. Or, about the same as a dirty
          boat. They go on to explain about laminar flows and disrupted flow rates...more
          math than I can understand... I just remember to keep the bottom as smooth as
          possible. I don't pretend to follow their math. Hmm...I can't seem to find those
          links anymore, they were on the old computer ... Jensen has a lot of good things
          to say about hull flex and strip boats in this link, though.... Wish he was still living,
          he was a true master and really churned out strip boats...
          My thoughts only . . .
          jdm

          At 04:07 PM 5/2/2010, you wrote:
          >I have created a new photo album for the Freedom 15 I am fabricating. It is
          >called, with great originality, "Corky's Freedom 15" and is in the photo
          >section of the our yahoo group.
          >
          >
          >
          >Corky Scott
          >
          >
          >
          >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          >------------------------------------
          >
          >Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          James Marco,
          302 Mary Lane,
          Ithaca, NY 14850
          607-273-9132


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Charles & Dana Scott
          Thanks for your concern James. Three things in that regard: 1. My strips are all cut and milled, I cannot afford to throw them out, buy more wood and re-mill.
          Message 4 of 6 , May 3, 2010
          • 0 Attachment
            Thanks for your concern James. Three things in that regard: 1. My strips
            are all cut and milled, I cannot afford to throw them out, buy more wood and
            re-mill. 2. The rippling would only occur if you used a soft pad either on
            the sander, or by hand. If you use a stiff block, the sandpaper has a firm
            backing and cannot sink into softer parts of the wood so the result is a
            smooth level surface. In addition, the use of a fairing strip will contour
            the hull without rippling it too. Besides, the author says that using sharp
            sandpaper will negate any differing densities in the wood. 3. Neither I nor
            my wife are racers, we use our canoe for extremely gentle outings to enjoy
            the water and get a little exercise. If the hull does not glide exactly as
            far as a perfectly shaped and finished hull would, I don't think we'll
            notice. ;-)



            When I built the Winisk, I had to glue together as many as five to seven
            pieces of strips to get strips long enough for the hull. That resulted in
            extreme variation from relatively hard to very soft wood the entire length
            of each strip. But careful use of the orbital sander seemed to take care of
            things without any noticeable ripples. Just gotta keep the sander moving
            and applying unvarying pressure as you go.



            Corky Scott







            _____

            From: cedarstripcanoes@yahoogroups.com
            [mailto:cedarstripcanoes@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of James D. Marco
            Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 8:03 AM
            To: cedarstripcanoes@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [Cedar Strip Canoes] Photo album created





            Corky,
            I see you have several pieces of plane sawn wood in your boat.
            As you are aware, this can cause some ripples in the boat, especially
            if the strips are numbered and stacked. For others on the list, I found
            this reference:
            http://www.guillemo
            <http://www.guillemot-kayaks.com/guillemot/information/kayak_building/strip_
            built_construction/cove_and_bead_strips>
            t-kayaks.com/guillemot/information/kayak_building/strip_built_construction/c
            ove_and_bead_strips
            He does a pretty good job of explaining why it is important to use quarter
            sawn strips, or, sharp planes/fresh sandpaper to fare the boat with plane
            sawn wood. Generally on the sides it is OK, and, on the stems & trim, but
            the hull bottom wants to be as smooth flowing as possible.
            While quarter sawn boards as stock are generally preferred for house
            trim and siding, ripping boat strips will result in plane sawn strips from
            this
            "preferred" stock, since you turn the strip 90 degrees to the board face.
            The
            preferred boat strip can be better made from cheaper plane sawn boards.
            The resulting 90 degree roll will give a clean quarter sawn strip. Easier to

            work with generally, too.
            Overall, the minor ripples will increase hull friction quite a bit. Some
            people, Jenson and other purists, say quite a bit. Or, about the same as a
            dirty
            boat. They go on to explain about laminar flows and disrupted flow
            rates...more
            math than I can understand... I just remember to keep the bottom as smooth
            as
            possible. I don't pretend to follow their math. Hmm...I can't seem to find
            those
            links anymore, they were on the old computer ... Jensen has a lot of good
            things
            to say about hull flex and strip boats in this link, though.... Wish he was
            still living,
            he was a true master and really churned out strip boats...
            My thoughts only . . .
            jdm

            At 04:07 PM 5/2/2010, you wrote:
            >I have created a new photo album for the Freedom 15 I am fabricating. It is
            >called, with great originality, "Corky's Freedom 15" and is in the photo
            >section of the our yahoo group.
            >
            >
            >
            >Corky Scott
            >
            >
            >
            >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            >------------------------------------
            >
            >Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            James Marco,
            302 Mary Lane,
            Ithaca, NY 14850
            607-273-9132

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • James D. Marco
            Corky, Sorry Corky, this was not directed at you, but more toward any others in the group that may not be aware of that. You know how to work around that
            Message 5 of 6 , May 3, 2010
            • 0 Attachment
              Corky,
              Sorry Corky, this was not directed at you, but more toward any
              others in the group that may not be aware of that. You know how to
              work around that stuff. More of an informational thing that I sort'a thought
              might serve others. ;-)
              As a 4th item, I might add that the plane sawn wood is a bit
              stronger along the width of the strip. So, using it in critical areas makes
              perfect sense to me. Perhaps you could describe the differences between
              a stiff block and a faring strip? And how to tell when sandpaper is dull?
              Thanks!
              jdm
              At 12:12 PM 5/3/2010, you wrote:
              >Thanks for your concern James. Three things in that regard: 1. My strips
              >are all cut and milled, I cannot afford to throw them out, buy more wood and
              >re-mill. 2. The rippling would only occur if you used a soft pad either on
              >the sander, or by hand. If you use a stiff block, the sandpaper has a firm
              >backing and cannot sink into softer parts of the wood so the result is a
              >smooth level surface. In addition, the use of a fairing strip will contour
              >the hull without rippling it too. Besides, the author says that using sharp
              >sandpaper will negate any differing densities in the wood. 3. Neither I nor
              >my wife are racers, we use our canoe for extremely gentle outings to enjoy
              >the water and get a little exercise. If the hull does not glide exactly as
              >far as a perfectly shaped and finished hull would, I don't think we'll
              >notice. ;-)
              >
              >
              >
              >When I built the Winisk, I had to glue together as many as five to seven
              >pieces of strips to get strips long enough for the hull. That resulted in
              >extreme variation from relatively hard to very soft wood the entire length
              >of each strip. But careful use of the orbital sander seemed to take care of
              >things without any noticeable ripples. Just gotta keep the sander moving
              >and applying unvarying pressure as you go.
              >
              >
              >
              >Corky Scott
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > _____
              >
              >From: cedarstripcanoes@yahoogroups.com
              >[mailto:cedarstripcanoes@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of James D. Marco
              >Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 8:03 AM
              >To: cedarstripcanoes@yahoogroups.com
              >Subject: Re: [Cedar Strip Canoes] Photo album created
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >Corky,
              >I see you have several pieces of plane sawn wood in your boat.
              >As you are aware, this can cause some ripples in the boat, especially
              >if the strips are numbered and stacked. For others on the list, I found
              >this reference:
              >http://www.guillemo
              ><http://www.guillemot-kayaks.com/guillemot/information/kayak_building/strip_
              >built_construction/cove_and_bead_strips>
              >t-kayaks.com/guillemot/information/kayak_building/strip_built_construction/c
              >ove_and_bead_strips
              >He does a pretty good job of explaining why it is important to use quarter
              >sawn strips, or, sharp planes/fresh sandpaper to fare the boat with plane
              >sawn wood. Generally on the sides it is OK, and, on the stems & trim, but
              >the hull bottom wants to be as smooth flowing as possible.
              >While quarter sawn boards as stock are generally preferred for house
              >trim and siding, ripping boat strips will result in plane sawn strips from
              >this
              >"preferred" stock, since you turn the strip 90 degrees to the board face.
              >The
              >preferred boat strip can be better made from cheaper plane sawn boards.
              >The resulting 90 degree roll will give a clean quarter sawn strip. Easier to
              >
              >work with generally, too.
              >Overall, the minor ripples will increase hull friction quite a bit. Some
              >people, Jenson and other purists, say quite a bit. Or, about the same as a
              >dirty
              >boat. They go on to explain about laminar flows and disrupted flow
              >rates...more
              >math than I can understand... I just remember to keep the bottom as smooth
              >as
              >possible. I don't pretend to follow their math. Hmm...I can't seem to find
              >those
              >links anymore, they were on the old computer ... Jensen has a lot of good
              >things
              >to say about hull flex and strip boats in this link, though.... Wish he was
              >still living,
              >he was a true master and really churned out strip boats...
              >My thoughts only . . .
              >jdm
              >
              >At 04:07 PM 5/2/2010, you wrote:
              >>I have created a new photo album for the Freedom 15 I am fabricating. It is
              >>called, with great originality, "Corky's Freedom 15" and is in the photo
              >>section of the our yahoo group.
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>Corky Scott
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>------------------------------------
              >>
              >>Yahoo! Groups Links
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >James Marco,
              >302 Mary Lane,
              >Ithaca, NY 14850
              >607-273-9132
              >
              >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              >------------------------------------
              >
              >Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              James Marco,
              302 Mary Lane,
              Ithaca, NY 14850
              607-273-9132


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Charles & Dana Scott
              A fairing strip, or rather a fairing board, at least in the context of finishing cedar strip or wooden hulls is basically a very big somewhat flexible sanding
              Message 6 of 6 , May 3, 2010
              • 0 Attachment
                A fairing strip, or rather a fairing board, at least in the context of
                finishing cedar strip or wooden hulls is basically a very big somewhat
                flexible sanding pad. They are available commercially, but most people just
                make them by cutting off a sheet of ¼” plywood and attaching two handles on
                it at either end. Many stripper folks make it as long and wide as two 8
                1/2” X 11 sheets of sandpaper laid side by side. Commercial fairing boards
                come in a variety of sizes, widths and stiffness.



                The idea is to spread the action of the sandpaper out over a large area, and
                the board should be flexible enough so as to conform to the curve of the
                hull. So you want it flexible, but not too flexible, stiff, but not too
                stiff. You sand the hull across the direction of the strips, not with them.



                This is just an initial method for making the hull “fair”, or smooth without
                dips or bumps, which is why the fairing board is so often pretty large, at
                least when talking about wooden hulls.



                Smoothing and fairing hulls is exactly what people building fiberglass over
                foam airplanes have to do in order to smooth out fuselages and wings. They
                too need a large somewhat flexible board to sand with because they do not
                want any ripples in the wing or fuselage at all, or they will lose
                efficiency and performance. Smoothing out the wings once they are glassed
                can take many days of obsessive sanding with ever finer grades of sandpaper
                on the fairing board.



                When you think you’re done, one method for checking is to lightly pencil
                lines all over the fuselage or wing and then re-sand. If you’ve gotten
                things smooth and have no dips, the pencil lines will get sanded out. If
                you have a dip or two, the pencil lines will be visible in them. Now the
                choice is to continue to sand down the area around the dip, or add a filler
                to bring up the dip to the level around it. That’s why it is important to
                have a fairing board that is stiff enough that it does not follow a dip, but
                sands the area around the dip.



                The same issue applies to hard or soft sanding pads. Hard pads firmly back
                up sandpaper so that it does not sand down into irregularities, but sands
                down around them to bring everything level. Example: I have a scratch on
                the side of my relatively new truck. I am dealing with it by hand painting
                it with a tiny bottle of the correct paint (white in this case), and then
                wet sanding it gently with 400 grit sandpaper backed by a hard pad. I will
                then use 800, then 1000 and finally 1200 grit, one after the other, until
                the paint that I deliberately mounded up in the scratch is now level with
                the original paint. Then I’ll polish and finally wax and hopefully, the
                scratch won’t be visible anymore.



                The same principle applies to sanding the hull fair. If you are using an
                orbital sander, you want to be moving it constantly while keeping a uniform
                pressure on it. Especially if you are using 60 or 80 grit pads, they’ll cut
                into the cedar very quickly if you keep it in one place too long. Use the
                foam pad only in the interior, use the standard hard base for the outside of
                the hull.



                As to when paper is no longer sharp, for me that’s a matter of feel. After
                a while you notice that it is taking longer to cover a given area than when
                you first started with a fresh pad. Hook and loop sanding discs were
                invented because everyone was always looking for a way to rapidly change out
                the sandpaper because it’s important to keep it sharp. So when it’s not
                doing it’s job quickly and efficiently, change it out.



                Corky Scott



                _____

                From: cedarstripcanoes@yahoogroups.com
                [mailto:cedarstripcanoes@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of James D. Marco
                Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 1:08 PM
                To: cedarstripcanoes@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: RE: [Cedar Strip Canoes] Photo album created





                Corky,
                Sorry Corky, this was not directed at you, but more toward any
                others in the group that may not be aware of that. You know how to
                work around that stuff. More of an informational thing that I sort'a thought
                might serve others. ;-)
                As a 4th item, I might add that the plane sawn wood is a bit
                stronger along the width of the strip. So, using it in critical areas makes
                perfect sense to me. Perhaps you could describe the differences between
                a stiff block and a faring strip? And how to tell when sandpaper is dull?
                Thanks!
                jdm
                _,_._,___



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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