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  • James D. Marco
    Hi all, I have built a few strip boats. My last one was 15 6, 28 beam, 48pound, tandem, Oak and cherry hull, mahogany gunnels, cane and mahogany seats. I am
    Message 1 of 6 , Jan 3, 2010
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      Hi all,
      I have built a few strip boats. My last one was 15'6, 28"
      beam, 48pound, tandem, Oak and cherry hull, mahogany gunnels,
      cane and mahogany seats.
      I am planning a UL version for canoe/hiking/fishing
      through the Adirondacks. 12'4x26", solo, foam seats, no decking.
      Hopefully, I can get the weight down to about 27# or less. Similar
      to Hornbeck's boats, but a significantly less tubby, faster hull. As
      mostly a flatwater boat, I will leave a flat hull, top & bottom, to
      eliminate as much wind push as possible and leave turning most
      waves to the gunnels and hull shape. About a 250# capacity would
      be good, it might go up to 280# with a stressed center thwart and a
      3/4" rocker after initial wetting, though. About 3-3/4" water line at
      200#, soo a 10" hull depth should be good. Minimal, but shore is
      usually not too far away, should I dump it.
      Flat strips, no bead and cove, fitted cleanly with a hand plane.
      (slight tapering bow and stern, slight angle around curves. This
      should reduce the strong curves finishing near the bottom/center.)
      Alternating strips, over & under, on bow/stern, this keeps me on
      track. with the tapers and adds a bit of strength. The hull will be
      3/16x3/4(nom) cedar strips, full length to save weight and add a
      slight strength increase over scarfing. 1/2"x3/4" cedar, gunwale
      strips, 6oz fiberglass outer, 4oz fiberglass inner. I will likely use
      MAS low viscosity resin coupled with a slower hardener to give
      myself plenty of time to work. The MAS works pretty well when cut
      with about 10% acetone for cooling, too. The sliding thwart will
      also be used as a back rest for the seat. The bow and stern will
      be wrapped with 1/8" paracord(center removed) soaked and filled
      with epoxy, filleted cleanly, to act as skid plates. Anyway, that is
      the plan.
      Any comments you folks have would be appreciated!
      I laid out the boat and forms, but I have not yet started the
      strong back, yet. Soo, it is not too late to make changes, or correct
      any of my mistakes.
      Thanks, All!
      jdm
    • Tim
      James- Welcome aboard. What do you have planned for the foam seat? I have been impressed by the Tuffets that Marc Pettingill designed in his Building Sweet
      Message 2 of 6 , Jan 4, 2010
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        James-

        Welcome aboard.

        What do you have planned for the foam seat? I have been impressed by the "Tuffets" that Marc Pettingill designed in his "Building Sweet Dream" book. They consisted of a shaped stool that allowed him to kneel all day (single blading), and tipped over to provide a backrest for sitting on the bottom (double blade). ISBN 1-888671-03-3 if you're interested.

        Adding acetone to epoxy will increase porosity, giving you less water impermeability and strength. MAS is excellent epoxy, but they are a little inflexible about their chemistry. Other people make good stuff at a lower price and may have a better selection of hardeners to give you what you want.

        Did you check out Storer's site for the balsa?
        http://www.storerboatplans.com/Balsacanoe/Balsacanoe.html

        Good luck on it.

        Tim Greiner

        --- James D. Marco wrote:
        >
        > Hi all,
        > I have built a few strip boats. My last one was 15'6, 28"
        > beam, 48pound, tandem, Oak and cherry hull, mahogany gunnels,
        > cane and mahogany seats.
        > I am planning a UL version for canoe/hiking/fishing
        > through the Adirondacks. 12'4x26", solo, foam seats, no decking.
        > Hopefully, I can get the weight down to about 27# or less. Similar
        > to Hornbeck's boats, but a significantly less tubby, faster hull. As
        > mostly a flatwater boat, I will leave a flat hull, top & bottom, to
        > eliminate as much wind push as possible and leave turning most
        > waves to the gunnels and hull shape. About a 250# capacity would
        > be good, it might go up to 280# with a stressed center thwart and a
        > 3/4" rocker after initial wetting, though. About 3-3/4" water line at
        > 200#, soo a 10" hull depth should be good. Minimal, but shore is
        > usually not too far away, should I dump it.
        > Flat strips, no bead and cove, fitted cleanly with a hand plane.
        > (slight tapering bow and stern, slight angle around curves. This
        > should reduce the strong curves finishing near the bottom/center.)
        > Alternating strips, over & under, on bow/stern, this keeps me on
        > track. with the tapers and adds a bit of strength. The hull will be
        > 3/16x3/4(nom) cedar strips, full length to save weight and add a
        > slight strength increase over scarfing. 1/2"x3/4" cedar, gunwale
        > strips, 6oz fiberglass outer, 4oz fiberglass inner. I will likely use
        > MAS low viscosity resin coupled with a slower hardener to give
        > myself plenty of time to work. The MAS works pretty well when cut
        > with about 10% acetone for cooling, too. The sliding thwart will
        > also be used as a back rest for the seat. The bow and stern will
        > be wrapped with 1/8" paracord(center removed) soaked and filled
        > with epoxy, filleted cleanly, to act as skid plates. Anyway, that is
        > the plan.
        > Any comments you folks have would be appreciated!
        > I laid out the boat and forms, but I have not yet started the
        > strong back, yet. Soo, it is not too late to make changes, or correct
        > any of my mistakes.
        > Thanks, All!
        > jdm
        >
      • James D. Marco
        Hi Tim, Well, I really hadn t planned that far ahead. But, I was thinking of the nightlite pad from gossamergear.com. Folded with the ridges embedded in each
        Message 3 of 6 , Jan 4, 2010
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          Hi Tim,
          Well, I really hadn't planned that far ahead. But, I was thinking
          of the nightlite pad from gossamergear.com. Folded with the ridges
          embedded in each other, this would make a pretty good seat. 5 layers
          makes about 2"...more kayak style. That stuff is very water proof and I
          have one already. The back will be the thwart. Better'n I usually have,
          which is nothing. But, with my legs straight out, I sort of want some
          sort of support. I may need padding or slip it back a bit further and set
          my pack against it at about 3-5 degrees. Like I say, I hadn't planned
          that far. I was planning on a double paddle.
          Hmmm....I didn't know that about MAS. I have been doing that
          since I was using the West stuff...about 10 years now. Never had any
          problems with it. For a glaze over the Winona, it works OK. Helps me
          lay on a thin coat without a lot of drips. And it really helps wetting, where
          the time is. Maybe I could use the slow hardener instead. Anyway, I
          usually mix about 10% acetone. Even at 60F it slows stuff down a lot.
          The evaporation cools stuff quite a bit, adds about 20 minutes to the
          working time.
          Balsa? I hadn't even considered it. Half the weight will be
          in the fiberglass and epoxy. I am figuring two 1x6-14' clear cedar for the
          whole boat, including a 22"x4" piece for the thwart. I have a skip tooth
          blade on the band saw that will cut them...likely a little less than 3/16".
          Really, the core is mostly a form for the fiberglass, anyway. Though, it
          adds a good measure of stability to the whole hull. I have had the bottom
          layer rip loose of oak strips when my son-in-law stepped in, right next to
          a rock. (I slit it and syringed in some epoxy when I got back.) I do not
          really care what it looks like. I'll put a LOT of scratches on it when I get
          out. I will have to check into the balsa. I had not thought to reduce the
          weight that way, .... Thanks!
          I liked the site, good thoughts on the Wee Lassie, but I don't think it
          is long enough, either. I have Rushton's book around here somewhere.
          He includes the design for that boat, as well as the Sairy Gamp. He used
          to work out of Canton, as I remember. Hmmm, I actually think it was written
          about Rushton, not by him....I'll have to dig it up....
          jdm

          At 12:12 PM 1/4/2010, you wrote:
          >James-
          >
          >Welcome aboard.
          >
          >What do you have planned for the foam seat? I have been impressed by the "Tuffets" that Marc Pettingill designed in his "Building Sweet Dream" book. They consisted of a shaped stool that allowed him to kneel all day (single blading), and tipped over to provide a backrest for sitting on the bottom (double blade). ISBN 1-888671-03-3 if you're interested.
          >
          >Adding acetone to epoxy will increase porosity, giving you less water impermeability and strength. MAS is excellent epoxy, but they are a little inflexible about their chemistry. Other people make good stuff at a lower price and may have a better selection of hardeners to give you what you want.
          >
          >Did you check out Storer's site for the balsa?
          >http://www.storerboatplans.com/Balsacanoe/Balsacanoe.html
          >
          >Good luck on it.
          >
          >Tim Greiner
          >
          >--- James D. Marco wrote:
          >>
          >> Hi all,
          >> I have built a few strip boats. My last one was 15'6, 28"
          >> beam, 48pound, tandem, Oak and cherry hull, mahogany gunnels,
          >> cane and mahogany seats.
          >> I am planning a UL version for canoe/hiking/fishing
          >> through the Adirondacks. 12'4x26", solo, foam seats, no decking.
          >> Hopefully, I can get the weight down to about 27# or less. Similar
          >> to Hornbeck's boats, but a significantly less tubby, faster hull. As
          >> mostly a flatwater boat, I will leave a flat hull, top & bottom, to
          >> eliminate as much wind push as possible and leave turning most
          >> waves to the gunnels and hull shape. About a 250# capacity would
          >> be good, it might go up to 280# with a stressed center thwart and a
          >> 3/4" rocker after initial wetting, though. About 3-3/4" water line at
          >> 200#, soo a 10" hull depth should be good. Minimal, but shore is
          >> usually not too far away, should I dump it.
          >> Flat strips, no bead and cove, fitted cleanly with a hand plane.
          >> (slight tapering bow and stern, slight angle around curves. This
          >> should reduce the strong curves finishing near the bottom/center.)
          >> Alternating strips, over & under, on bow/stern, this keeps me on
          >> track. with the tapers and adds a bit of strength. The hull will be
          >> 3/16x3/4(nom) cedar strips, full length to save weight and add a
          >> slight strength increase over scarfing. 1/2"x3/4" cedar, gunwale
          >> strips, 6oz fiberglass outer, 4oz fiberglass inner. I will likely use
          >> MAS low viscosity resin coupled with a slower hardener to give
          >> myself plenty of time to work. The MAS works pretty well when cut
          >> with about 10% acetone for cooling, too. The sliding thwart will
          >> also be used as a back rest for the seat. The bow and stern will
          >> be wrapped with 1/8" paracord(center removed) soaked and filled
          >> with epoxy, filleted cleanly, to act as skid plates. Anyway, that is
          >> the plan.
          >> Any comments you folks have would be appreciated!
          >> I laid out the boat and forms, but I have not yet started the
          >> strong back, yet. Soo, it is not too late to make changes, or correct
          >> any of my mistakes.
          >> Thanks, All!
          >> jdm
          >>
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >------------------------------------
          >
          >Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          James Marco
          Computer Operations Manager, Desktop Support
          Biomedical Engineering and
          Chemical and Biomolecular Engineering
          Cornell University
          B77 Olin Hall,
          Ithaca, NY 14853
          Office: 255-7312
        • Tim
          James- A couple of links pertinant to your build: http://www.nessmuking.com/articles/light-but-strong-building-cedar-strip-canoes-for-wilderness-tripping/ Does
          Message 4 of 6 , Jan 21, 2010
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            James-

            A couple of links pertinant to your build:

            http://www.nessmuking.com/articles/light-but-strong-building-cedar-strip-canoes-for-wilderness-tripping/

            Does several interesting things- cedar inner stems & gunwales, lightweight on the epoxy/glass. Sounds like his use is very similar to yours.

            http://www.oneoceankayaks.com/Epoxtest.htm

            One of the better tests I've found. The problem with acetone in the epoxy is that it essentially makes premium-formulated stuff into cheap stuff, with the premium price. It doesn't crosslink as much (therefore a little weaker) and the porosity means water will migrate a little sooner through to the wood. Neither one a deal breaker but there are formulas that penetrate well and don't have solvents, so are full strength and longer-lasting.

            Tim Greiner

            --- James wrote:
            >
            > Hi Tim,
            > Well, I really hadn't planned that far ahead. But, I was thinking
            > of the nightlite pad from gossamergear.com. Folded with the ridges
            > embedded in each other, this would make a pretty good seat. 5 layers
            > makes about 2"...more kayak style. That stuff is very water proof and I
            > have one already. The back will be the thwart. Better'n I usually have,
            > which is nothing. But, with my legs straight out, I sort of want some
            > sort of support. I may need padding or slip it back a bit further and set
            > my pack against it at about 3-5 degrees. Like I say, I hadn't planned
            > that far. I was planning on a double paddle.
            > Hmmm....I didn't know that about MAS. I have been doing that
            > since I was using the West stuff...about 10 years now. Never had any
            > problems with it. For a glaze over the Winona, it works OK. Helps me
            > lay on a thin coat without a lot of drips. And it really helps wetting, where
            > the time is. Maybe I could use the slow hardener instead. Anyway, I
            > usually mix about 10% acetone. Even at 60F it slows stuff down a lot.
            > The evaporation cools stuff quite a bit, adds about 20 minutes to the
            > working time.
            > Balsa? I hadn't even considered it. Half the weight will be
            > in the fiberglass and epoxy. I am figuring two 1x6-14' clear cedar for the
            > whole boat, including a 22"x4" piece for the thwart. I have a skip tooth
            > blade on the band saw that will cut them...likely a little less than 3/16".
            > Really, the core is mostly a form for the fiberglass, anyway. Though, it
            > adds a good measure of stability to the whole hull. I have had the bottom
            > layer rip loose of oak strips when my son-in-law stepped in, right next to
            > a rock. (I slit it and syringed in some epoxy when I got back.) I do not
            > really care what it looks like. I'll put a LOT of scratches on it when I get
            > out. I will have to check into the balsa. I had not thought to reduce the
            > weight that way, .... Thanks!
            > I liked the site, good thoughts on the Wee Lassie, but I don't think it
            > is long enough, either. I have Rushton's book around here somewhere.
            > He includes the design for that boat, as well as the Sairy Gamp. He used
            > to work out of Canton, as I remember. Hmmm, I actually think it was written
            > about Rushton, not by him....I'll have to dig it up....
            > jdm
            >
            >
          • James D. Marco
            Thanks, Tim! I kind a liked his article. But I would question two layers of light cloth. A single layer of 6oz would work as well and be less troublesome.
            Message 5 of 6 , Jan 22, 2010
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              Thanks, Tim!
              I kind'a liked his article. But I would question two layers of
              light cloth. A single layer of 6oz would work as well and be less
              troublesome. Maybe I should drop to 4oz?
              Thanks for the epoxy tests. MAS seemed to do OK, but
              worse than others. I will start looking again.
              jdm

              At 12:59 AM 1/22/2010, you wrote:
              >James-
              >
              >A couple of links pertinant to your build:
              >
              >http://www.nessmuking.com/articles/light-but-strong-building-cedar-strip-canoes-for-wilderness-tripping/
              >
              >Does several interesting things- cedar inner stems & gunwales, lightweight on the epoxy/glass. Sounds like his use is very similar to yours.
              >
              >http://www.oneoceankayaks.com/Epoxtest.htm
              >
              >One of the better tests I've found. The problem with acetone in the epoxy is that it essentially makes premium-formulated stuff into cheap stuff, with the premium price. It doesn't crosslink as much (therefore a little weaker) and the porosity means water will migrate a little sooner through to the wood. Neither one a deal breaker but there are formulas that penetrate well and don't have solvents, so are full strength and longer-lasting.
              >
              >Tim Greiner
              >
              >--- James wrote:
              >>
              >> Hi Tim,
              >> Well, I really hadn't planned that far ahead. But, I was thinking
              >> of the nightlite pad from gossamergear.com. Folded with the ridges
              >> embedded in each other, this would make a pretty good seat. 5 layers
              >> makes about 2"...more kayak style. That stuff is very water proof and I
              >> have one already. The back will be the thwart. Better'n I usually have,
              >> which is nothing. But, with my legs straight out, I sort of want some
              >> sort of support. I may need padding or slip it back a bit further and set
              >> my pack against it at about 3-5 degrees. Like I say, I hadn't planned
              >> that far. I was planning on a double paddle.
              >> Hmmm....I didn't know that about MAS. I have been doing that
              >> since I was using the West stuff...about 10 years now. Never had any
              >> problems with it. For a glaze over the Winona, it works OK. Helps me
              >> lay on a thin coat without a lot of drips. And it really helps wetting, where
              >> the time is. Maybe I could use the slow hardener instead. Anyway, I
              >> usually mix about 10% acetone. Even at 60F it slows stuff down a lot.
              >> The evaporation cools stuff quite a bit, adds about 20 minutes to the
              >> working time.
              >> Balsa? I hadn't even considered it. Half the weight will be
              >> in the fiberglass and epoxy. I am figuring two 1x6-14' clear cedar for the
              >> whole boat, including a 22"x4" piece for the thwart. I have a skip tooth
              >> blade on the band saw that will cut them...likely a little less than 3/16".
              >> Really, the core is mostly a form for the fiberglass, anyway. Though, it
              >> adds a good measure of stability to the whole hull. I have had the bottom
              >> layer rip loose of oak strips when my son-in-law stepped in, right next to
              >> a rock. (I slit it and syringed in some epoxy when I got back.) I do not
              >> really care what it looks like. I'll put a LOT of scratches on it when I get
              >> out. I will have to check into the balsa. I had not thought to reduce the
              >> weight that way, .... Thanks!
              >> I liked the site, good thoughts on the Wee Lassie, but I don't think it
              >> is long enough, either. I have Rushton's book around here somewhere.
              >> He includes the design for that boat, as well as the Sairy Gamp. He used
              >> to work out of Canton, as I remember. Hmmm, I actually think it was written
              >> about Rushton, not by him....I'll have to dig it up....
              >> jdm
              >>
              >>
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >------------------------------------
              >
              >Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              James Marco
              Computer Operations Manager, Desktop Support
              Biomedical Engineering and
              Chemical and Biomolecular Engineering
              Cornell University
              B77 Olin Hall,
              Ithaca, NY 14853
              Office: 255-7312
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