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[Cedar Strip Canoes] Re: New user, new "Bob's Special" build and probably an old

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  • Tim
    Josh- On the first question, obviously stretching increases displacement, if you want to know the effects try out both a 15 & 16 canoe of similar design and
    Message 1 of 8 , Sep 30, 2009
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      Josh-

      On the first question, obviously stretching increases displacement, if you want to know the effects try out both a 15' & 16' canoe of similar design and see how they work. This is mostly a question of how you will normally load it, however. Say you & the DW are skinny, you use it solo 1/3 of the time, and never use it for hauling cargo like two labradors & camping gear for a week- build it 15'. You and the DW normal weight or more, like to camp with it with car-camping level gear or bring a couple kids, build it 16'.
      As for stability, I've heard the argument that it is slightly less due to the added length, but I doubt it- at least as far as human perception goes. Tracking/turning is again how you use it, and IMHO your choice of low rocker is the right one. This is because cedar strip is beautiful but a PITA to fix after hitting rocks hard, so nobody uses them in whitewater, just lakes & slow rivers. If you plan on going mainly on rivers with a few rapids and little lake travel, consider more rocker. The original plans these canoes were based on generally had more rocker because they were working boats, and HAD to deal with whitewater or do a dollar-sucking portage.
      I would seriously consider the bow-end only stretch, though. If you are just the average weight difference with the wife (40-50 lbs) and she paddles in the bow, you need about 60 lbs of rocks under her seat (& feet) to trim the canoe correctly. Having more displacement aft reduces the need for bow weights greatly.
      Once again, the best way to answer this is by renting/borrowing a boat very close to what you are thinking of and seeing if it is what you want.

      On the second question, I think you could manage to build a sturgeon bow on it, but to look good would require changing the topsides back to nearly the centerline. If you only change a couple of stations near the bow, it will look funny- the human eye is very discriminating when smooth curves have a bend in the middle.

      Tim Greiner

      --- Josh wrote:
      >
      > I don't disagree that changing the length of the boat by only stretching the stations will change the design below the waterline. However, this is a modification that is specified in the plans from Bear Mountain Boats on the Bob's Special.
      >
      > I may not have been clear, but i'm really asking two questions here:
      >
      > One question concerns the difference between the 15' and the 16' versions by stretching the stations evenly (stretching them to taper the boat was just an offhand comment about something i had thought about doing and decided not to) and which one would better fit my intended use. I understand that this WILL change the design below the waterline and affect things like displacement, stability (possibly?), tracking and turning performance, which I would like to know about.
      >
      > The other question concerns modifying the stems to a sturgeon nosed shape, all the changes of which would be above the waterline and SHOULD NOT change the design performance below the water. However, I'm looking for input on how this might affect things like windage, tracking because of reduced windage, building details, and looks.
      >
      > As far a building in foam goes, I'm not looking to research and develope a new design to advocate and sell plans for. I just want to build a boat, use it, and am looking for input on ideas that I have to make it customized to suit me. I know that canoes are VERY versatile boats and just about any design could do the things I'm asking of it. Heck, I've guided high-schoolers on a week-long camping trip on flat water rivers in a banana shaped solo white-water boat. Not fun, but it worked. But, might as well find a design that does what I want well and makes using the boat a pleasure, right?
      >
      > --- In cedarstripcanoes@yahoogroups.com, djohnson450@ wrote:
      > >
      > > This thread and a number of others have talked about increasing boat lenght without changing design characteristics below the waterline.  I contend that if you stretch the distance between the stations (or shorten them) you are changing the design below the waterline.  If you lengthen the stations without adjusitng the rocker (much harder to do than simply increasing hte distance between the stations) you are effectively decreasing the amount of rocker built into the design and the resulting canoe will be a bit more difficult to turn.  Rather than messing with a tested design I would find a number of designs that are the length I am looking for and then select a final design based on the numerous other characteristics.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Then again if you really want to modify a design it probabbly should be tested first before using up all those nice cedar strips.  You can do this by setting out the stations on the strongback as per your adjusted design and then filling in the spaces inbetween with foam blocks to create a 'plug'.  You can fiberglass over this using cheap foam core instead of strips and produce an ugly and cheap canoe that accurately reflects the modified design.  You can take this out on the water and see how it handles.  This is how new designs are tested before commiting the labor and more expensive materials to an untested design.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > David
      > >
      > >

      > > Subject: [Cedar Strip Canoes] Re: New user, new "Bob's Special" build and probably an old question
      > >

      > >
      > > Thanx for the advice, guys!
      > >
      > > My wife is the kind who would appreciate a nice, stable, boat rather than a speedy one, no matter how much experience she gains.
      > >
      > > As far as tracking in view of the modifications goes, I wouldn't think that would be an issue if i keep all my changes above the waterline, which would be the case if the only modifications I did would be an even stretch across all forms and the stem mod.
      > >
      > > I figure I'll get the forms set up and run some temporary strips to check the lines on my mod. If not nice, then I'll probably just go with the original nose.
      > >
      > > I've heard that the Bob's special can be a little difficult to turn if stretched to 16'? any input? In few of hearing this, I might stick with an extra 1/2" per station, keeping the length to about 15'8" over the 15 stations.
      > >
      > > I'll also be posting on the Bear Mountain Boats website for their input.
      > >
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