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Re: [Cedar Strip Canoes] Introduction and question regarding epoxy

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  • shepard_c
    Hmm. I m using System Three General Purpose epoxy. I wonder if I should be using the Clear Coat, instead. It says it is low viscosity. Also says, Use Clear
    Message 1 of 29 , Jun 27, 2009
    • 0 Attachment
      Hmm. I'm using System Three General Purpose epoxy. I wonder if I should be using the Clear Coat, instead. It says it is low viscosity. Also says, "Use Clear Coat as the sole epoxy system to make wood strip canoes and kayaks."




      --- In cedarstripcanoes@yahoogroups.com, bambotony@... wrote:
      >
      > I am a bit late on this.
      > We used System 3 Clear Coat on the last canoe and I was more than delighted with the finish. The canoe was fiber glassed in late September. The first coat was applied in the evening before it started to cool down, the temps would be falling. The canoe was built and fiber glassed under a open shelter about 50' from the river. It would get foggy at night and early morning. This did not seem to affect the finish. The first evening, the first coat was applied to the sanded Cypress.  The next evening the second coat was applied over the first coat and the fiber glass laid over it. Then a wetting out coat was applied and smooth up with a dry foam brush.. The following evening a bottom  fiberglass football was laid out over the first layer and Epoxy applied. Six oz. cloth was used.
      > One more coat of Epoxy was applied on the whole canoe the following evening. Each time the Epoxy was smooth up with a foam brush. No sanding in between. The info says that a coat of Clear Coat Epoxy can be applied
      > within seven days without sanding. The final coat of Epoxy was sanded before applying the Urethane varnish several weeks later. The same was done on the inside The finish is almost as smooth as glass with no weave showing The only problem is that the inside is so smooth that you really have to watch stepping in the canoe with wet feet. The canoe I am building now, I will leave some weave showing on the inside or put deck boards in the bottom. You can see the finished Cypress canoe in the Photo Section in the 16' Cypress Canoe Files.The canoe I am building now is under Bambotony Canoe file. It is Ceder and Redwood. Will be adding more photos later. It is about 9 strips from closing up the bottom. This will be my fifth canoe, three of those were done with Poly Resin, I will stay with the Clear Coat
      > Arkansas Tony
      >
      > --- On Tue, 6/23/09, shepard_c <egroups@...> wrote:
      >
      > From: shepard_c <egroups@...>
      > Subject: Re: [Cedar Strip Canoes] Introduction and question regarding epoxy
      > To: cedarstripcanoes@yahoogroups.com
      > Date: Tuesday, June 23, 2009, 10:43 AM
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
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      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > This is different than the weave texture. I still a bit of that showing, but this is more of an orange peel texture. When I was in high school, my brother and I painted my 52 Chevy. The paint laid on beautifully. Prior to shooting the clear, my brother wiped down the truck with the prep solution using rags he had brought from home. We shot the clear and were horrified to see it all bead up like water on a freshly waxed car! Turned out, he had grabbed his wife's dust rags which had Pledge furniture polish with wax on them. So we waxed the truck before shooting the clear.
      >
      >
      >
      > The texture of my epoxy is similar, though not as severe as that clear coat story. I'm using new wiping rags fresh out of the package to dry it, so no concern with contamination. It's just not laying as flat and smooth as I expected. This is a first for me, though, so maybe that's the way it's supposed to be.
      >
      >
      >
      > I'm sanding today and trying to smooth the entire surface. Getting rid of all the texture is getting me into the weave in spots, so I'll apply one more coat of epoxy and see how that goes, and then smooth sand to 220 for varnish.
      >
      >
      >
      > I put up some photos of the canoe when I had it wet for final sanding. I don't have any photos of the glass and epoxy. The album is "Gumpy's 18 Footer".
      >
      >
      >
      > craig
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In cedarstripcanoes@ yahoogroups. com, Richard Berling <rberling@ .> wrote:
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Craig: It sounds perfectly correct to me. The weave causes the
      >
      > > texture (something you want on the interior after only one coat of
      >
      > > epoxy). Sanding the exterior smooth to receive the varnish is
      >
      > > standard practice, only to be careful not to penetrate the weave.
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Usually I only put two layers of 6 oz cloth on the bottom only but
      >
      > > full coverage is OK but for the extra weight. One layer inside with a
      >
      > > six inch strip down the middle interior is adequate, the center line
      >
      > > being the weakest point in the canoe.
      >
      > >
      >
      > > I hope this helps. Post pictures, the accents sound great.
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Badgerberling
      >
      > >
      >
      > > On Jun 22, 2009, at 6:46 PM, shepard_c wrote:
      >
      > >
      >
      > > >
      >
      > > >
      >
      > > > hello. I'm new here.
      >
      > > >
      >
      > > > In 1992, I saw a 3 part article in Family Handyman on how to build
      >
      > > > an 18 foot cedar strip canoe. I decided I had to build one. So I
      >
      > > > bought all three issues and started. I built the strongback, and
      >
      > > > then, before I could start stripping, I had to move across country.
      >
      > > > I disassembled everything and packed it away and moved it with me.
      >
      > > > It's been sitting in the garage since. This spring, I finally got to
      >
      > > > clean up some of the garage and found the strongback parts and
      >
      > > > decided the time was now....
      >
      > > >
      >
      > > > Flash forward about 8 weeks.... I have stripped the canoe with
      >
      > > > recycled red cedar with walnut, aspen and cherry accents, and
      >
      > > > inserted a 4 point navigational star inlay in the bottom. I ordered
      >
      > > > 6 oz cloth and System Three epoxy, and have laid up 2 layers of
      >
      > > > cloth on the hull. I'm now trying to put the final coats of epoxy on
      >
      > > > and running into some issues with smoothness.
      >
      > > >
      >
      > > > I'm using foam rollers cut to 3 1/2 inches and laying on the epoxy
      >
      > > > as thin as I can to avoid runs. The last batch was 7 ounces of resin
      >
      > > > and 3 1/2 ounces of medium hardener. I rolled it on and then tipped
      >
      > > > it out with a foam brush. The result was very smooth. However, as it
      >
      > > > cured, the epoxy textured, similar to orange peel texture, and tiny
      >
      > > > pinholes.
      >
      > > >
      >
      > > > My prep prior to each coat of epoxy was to lightly sand previous
      >
      > > > coat with 120 grit RO sander, wipe off residue with damp sponge and
      >
      > > > dry with a cloth. I was concerned maybe I was not prepping correctly
      >
      > > > so I called the place where I bought the epoxy. He said this is
      >
      > > > normal, and I'll need to final sand the epoxy to smoothness, prior
      >
      > > > to varnishing.
      >
      > > >
      >
      > > > Does this sound right? Or is it possible to get a nice smooth finish
      >
      > > > on expoxy with minimal sanding at the end?
      >
      > > >
      >
      > > > Thanks for your suggestions.
      >
      > > >
      >
      > > > craig
      >
      > > >
      >
      > > >
      >
      > > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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    • Anthony Spezio
      Yes, I guess this can be done. The friend that the canoe was built for is planning on doing that. He had mentioned it to me when we took it out on a 6 mile run
      Message 2 of 29 , Jun 28, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        Yes, I guess this can be done. The friend that the canoe was built for is planning on doing that. He had mentioned it to me when we took it out on a 6 mile run last March.
        Thanks for the reply.
        Arkansas Tony
        --- On Sun, 6/28/09, gyipee <smart151@...> wrote:

        From: gyipee <smart151@...>
        Subject: [Cedar Strip Canoes] Re: Introduction and question regarding epoxy
        To: cedarstripcanoes@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Sunday, June 28, 2009, 4:24 AM

















        --- In cedarstripcanoes@ yahoogroups. com, bambotony@.. . wrote:

        >Hi As reguard to the problem of slipping on the inside with wet feet ,could you put a little dryed sand in some varnish and coat it onto the slippery area ,I did this with paint to the floor of an old boat with great effect, adding a little sand to the paint gave me great control to the amount of grip, rather than throwing sand on to the paint after painting as I was told which I found to be uneven ,I practiced on an old board first,

        Bogdolics.

        > I am a bit late on this.

        > We used System 3 Clear Coat on the last canoe and I was more than delighted with the finish. The canoe was fiber glassed in late September. The first coat was applied in the evening before it started to cool down, the temps would be falling. The canoe was built and fiber glassed under a open shelter about 50' from the river. It would get foggy at night and early morning. This did not seem to affect the finish. The first evening, the first coat was applied to the sanded Cypress.  The next evening the second coat was applied over the first coat and the fiber glass laid over it. Then a wetting out coat was applied and smooth up with a dry foam brush.. The following evening a bottom  fiberglass football was laid out over the first layer and Epoxy applied. Six oz. cloth was used.

        > One more coat of Epoxy was applied on the whole canoe the following evening. Each time the Epoxy was smooth up with a foam brush. No sanding in between. The info says that a coat of Clear Coat Epoxy can be applied

        > within seven days without sanding. The final coat of Epoxy was sanded before applying the Urethane varnish several weeks later. The same was done on the inside The finish is almost as smooth as glass with no weave showing The only problem is that the inside is so smooth that you really have to watch stepping in the canoe with wet feet. The canoe I am building now, I will leave some weave showing on the inside or put deck boards in the bottom. You can see the finished Cypress canoe in the Photo Section in the 16' Cypress Canoe Files.The canoe I am building now is under Bambotony Canoe file. It is Ceder and Redwood. Will be adding more photos later. It is about 9 strips from closing up the bottom. This will be my fifth canoe, three of those were done with Poly Resin, I will stay with the Clear Coat

        > Arkansas Tony

        >

        > --- On Tue, 6/23/09, shepard_c <egroups@... > wrote:

        >

        > From: shepard_c <egroups@... >

        > Subject: Re: [Cedar Strip Canoes] Introduction and question regarding epoxy

        > To: cedarstripcanoes@ yahoogroups. com

        > Date: Tuesday, June 23, 2009, 10:43 AM

        >

        >

        >

        >

        >

        >

        >

        >

        >

        >

        >

        >

        >

        >

        >

        >

        >

        > This is different than the weave texture. I still a bit of that showing, but this is more of an orange peel texture. When I was in high school, my brother and I painted my 52 Chevy. The paint laid on beautifully. Prior to shooting the clear, my brother wiped down the truck with the prep solution using rags he had brought from home. We shot the clear and were horrified to see it all bead up like water on a freshly waxed car! Turned out, he had grabbed his wife's dust rags which had Pledge furniture polish with wax on them. So we waxed the truck before shooting the clear.

        >

        >

        >

        > The texture of my epoxy is similar, though not as severe as that clear coat story. I'm using new wiping rags fresh out of the package to dry it, so no concern with contamination. It's just not laying as flat and smooth as I expected. This is a first for me, though, so maybe that's the way it's supposed to be.

        >

        >

        >

        > I'm sanding today and trying to smooth the entire surface. Getting rid of all the texture is getting me into the weave in spots, so I'll apply one more coat of epoxy and see how that goes, and then smooth sand to 220 for varnish.

        >

        >

        >

        > I put up some photos of the canoe when I had it wet for final sanding. I don't have any photos of the glass and epoxy. The album is "Gumpy's 18 Footer".

        >

        >

        >

        > craig

        >

        >

        >

        > --- In cedarstripcanoes@ yahoogroups. com, Richard Berling <rberling@ .> wrote:

        >

        > >

        >

        > >

        >

        > > Craig: It sounds perfectly correct to me. The weave causes the

        >

        > > texture (something you want on the interior after only one coat of

        >

        > > epoxy). Sanding the exterior smooth to receive the varnish is

        >

        > > standard practice, only to be careful not to penetrate the weave.

        >

        > >

        >

        > > Usually I only put two layers of 6 oz cloth on the bottom only but

        >

        > > full coverage is OK but for the extra weight. One layer inside with a

        >

        > > six inch strip down the middle interior is adequate, the center line

        >

        > > being the weakest point in the canoe.

        >

        > >

        >

        > > I hope this helps. Post pictures, the accents sound great.

        >

        > >

        >

        > > Badgerberling

        >

        > >

        >

        > > On Jun 22, 2009, at 6:46 PM, shepard_c wrote:

        >

        > >

        >

        > > >

        >

        > > >

        >

        > > > hello. I'm new here.

        >

        > > >

        >

        > > > In 1992, I saw a 3 part article in Family Handyman on how to build

        >

        > > > an 18 foot cedar strip canoe. I decided I had to build one. So I

        >

        > > > bought all three issues and started. I built the strongback, and

        >

        > > > then, before I could start stripping, I had to move across country.

        >

        > > > I disassembled everything and packed it away and moved it with me.

        >

        > > > It's been sitting in the garage since. This spring, I finally got to

        >

        > > > clean up some of the garage and found the strongback parts and

        >

        > > > decided the time was now....

        >

        > > >

        >

        > > > Flash forward about 8 weeks.... I have stripped the canoe with

        >

        > > > recycled red cedar with walnut, aspen and cherry accents, and

        >

        > > > inserted a 4 point navigational star inlay in the bottom. I ordered

        >

        > > > 6 oz cloth and System Three epoxy, and have laid up 2 layers of

        >

        > > > cloth on the hull. I'm now trying to put the final coats of epoxy on

        >

        > > > and running into some issues with smoothness.

        >

        > > >

        >

        > > > I'm using foam rollers cut to 3 1/2 inches and laying on the epoxy

        >

        > > > as thin as I can to avoid runs. The last batch was 7 ounces of resin

        >

        > > > and 3 1/2 ounces of medium hardener. I rolled it on and then tipped

        >

        > > > it out with a foam brush. The result was very smooth. However, as it

        >

        > > > cured, the epoxy textured, similar to orange peel texture, and tiny

        >

        > > > pinholes.

        >

        > > >

        >

        > > > My prep prior to each coat of epoxy was to lightly sand previous

        >

        > > > coat with 120 grit RO sander, wipe off residue with damp sponge and

        >

        > > > dry with a cloth. I was concerned maybe I was not prepping correctly

        >

        > > > so I called the place where I bought the epoxy. He said this is

        >

        > > > normal, and I'll need to final sand the epoxy to smoothness, prior

        >

        > > > to varnishing.

        >

        > > >

        >

        > > > Does this sound right? Or is it possible to get a nice smooth finish

        >

        > > > on expoxy with minimal sanding at the end?

        >

        > > >

        >

        > > > Thanks for your suggestions.

        >

        > > >

        >

        > > > craig

        >

        > > >

        >

        > > >

        >

        > > >

        >

        > >

        >

        > >

        >

        > >

        >

        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        >

        > >

        >

        >

        >

        >

        >

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        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        >































        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • whvreeland
        On Jun 28, 2009, at 9:12:40 AM, Anthony Spezio wrote: From: Anthony Spezio Subject: Re: [Cedar Strip
        Message 3 of 29 , Jun 28, 2009
        • 0 Attachment
          On Jun 28, 2009, at 9:12:40 AM, "Anthony Spezio" <bambotony@...>
          wrote:
          From: "Anthony Spezio" <bambotony@...>
          Subject: Re: [Cedar Strip Canoes] Re: Introduction and question
          regarding epoxy
          Date: June 28, 2009 9:12:40 AM EDT
          To: cedarstripcanoes@yahoogroups.com




          FYI, this looks like an interesting alternative to sand in your
          varnish. After five epoxy/wood boats, MAS Epoxy is my favorite.
          http://www.masepoxies.com/Videos/NON_SKID_REPAIR.html

          WHVreeland



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • bojag2000
          ... FYI, this looks like an interesting alternative to sand in your varnish. After five epoxy/wood boats, MAS Epoxy is my favorite.
          Message 4 of 29 , Jun 28, 2009
          • 0 Attachment
            --- In cedarstripcanoes@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Spezio <bambotony@...> wrote:
            >
            > Yes, I guess this can be done. The friend that the canoe was built for is planning on doing that. He had mentioned it to me when we took it out on a 6 mile run last March.
            > Thanks for the reply.
            > Arkansas Tony
            > --- On Sun, 6/28/09, gyipee <smart151@...> wrote:



            FYI, this looks like an interesting alternative to sand in your varnish. After five epoxy/wood boats, MAS Epoxy is my favorite.
            http://www.masepoxies.com/Videos/NON_SKID_REPAIR.html

            WHVreeland
          • Donald Kunsman
            ... for a non slip grip , let me first say i use a sponge roller when i put the epoxy on the out side of my first canoe and i made the mistake of purchaseing a
            Message 5 of 29 , Jun 28, 2009
            • 0 Attachment
              Anthony Spezio wrote:
              >
              >
              > Yes, I guess this can be done. The friend that the canoe was built for
              > is planning on doing that. He had mentioned it to me when we took it
              > out on a 6 mile run last March.
              > Thanks for the reply.
              > Arkansas Tony
              > --- On Sun, 6/28/09, gyipee <smart151@...
              > <mailto:smart151%40btinternet.com>> wrote:
              >
              > From: gyipee <smart151@... <mailto:smart151%40btinternet.com>>
              > Subject: [Cedar Strip Canoes] Re: Introduction and question regarding
              > epoxy
              > To: cedarstripcanoes@yahoogroups.com
              > <mailto:cedarstripcanoes%40yahoogroups.com>
              > Date: Sunday, June 28, 2009, 4:24 AM
              >
              > --- In cedarstripcanoes@ yahoogroups. com, bambotony@.. . wrote:
              >
              > >Hi As reguard to the problem of slipping on the inside with wet feet
              > ,could you put a little dryed sand in some varnish and coat it onto
              > the slippery area ,I did this with paint to the floor of an old boat
              > with great effect, adding a little sand to the paint gave me great
              > control to the amount of grip, rather than throwing sand on to the
              > paint after painting as I was told which I found to be uneven ,I
              > practiced on an old board first,
              >
              > Bogdolics.
              >
              > > I am a bit late on this.
              >
              > > We used System 3 Clear Coat on the last canoe and I was more than
              > delighted with the finish. The canoe was fiber glassed in late
              > September. The first coat was applied in the evening before it started
              > to cool down, the temps would be falling. The canoe was built and
              > fiber glassed under a open shelter about 50' from the river. It would
              > get foggy at night and early morning. This did not seem to affect the
              > finish. The first evening, the first coat was applied to the sanded
              > Cypress. The next evening the second coat was applied over the first
              > coat and the fiber glass laid over it. Then a wetting out coat was
              > applied and smooth up with a dry foam brush.. The following evening a
              > bottom fiberglass football was laid out over the first layer and
              > Epoxy applied. Six oz. cloth was used.
              >
              > > One more coat of Epoxy was applied on the whole canoe the following
              > evening. Each time the Epoxy was smooth up with a foam brush. No
              > sanding in between. The info says that a coat of Clear Coat Epoxy can
              > be applied
              >
              > > within seven days without sanding. The final coat of Epoxy was
              > sanded before applying the Urethane varnish several weeks later. The
              > same was done on the inside The finish is almost as smooth as glass
              > with no weave showing The only problem is that the inside is so smooth
              > that you really have to watch stepping in the canoe with wet feet. The
              > canoe I am building now, I will leave some weave showing on the inside
              > or put deck boards in the bottom. You can see the finished Cypress
              > canoe in the Photo Section in the 16' Cypress Canoe Files.The canoe I
              > am building now is under Bambotony Canoe file. It is Ceder and
              > Redwood. Will be adding more photos later. It is about 9 strips from
              > closing up the bottom. This will be my fifth canoe, three of those
              > were done with Poly Resin, I will stay with the Clear Coat
              >
              > > Arkansas Tony
              >
              > >
              >
              > > --- On Tue, 6/23/09, shepard_c <egroups@... > wrote:
              >
              > >
              >
              > > From: shepard_c <egroups@... >
              >
              > > Subject: Re: [Cedar Strip Canoes] Introduction and question
              > regarding epoxy
              >
              > > To: cedarstripcanoes@ yahoogroups. com
              >
              > > Date: Tuesday, June 23, 2009, 10:43 AM
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > > This is different than the weave texture. I still a bit of that
              > showing, but this is more of an orange peel texture. When I was in
              > high school, my brother and I painted my 52 Chevy. The paint laid on
              > beautifully. Prior to shooting the clear, my brother wiped down the
              > truck with the prep solution using rags he had brought from home. We
              > shot the clear and were horrified to see it all bead up like water on
              > a freshly waxed car! Turned out, he had grabbed his wife's dust rags
              > which had Pledge furniture polish with wax on them. So we waxed the
              > truck before shooting the clear.
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > > The texture of my epoxy is similar, though not as severe as that
              > clear coat story. I'm using new wiping rags fresh out of the package
              > to dry it, so no concern with contamination. It's just not laying as
              > flat and smooth as I expected. This is a first for me, though, so
              > maybe that's the way it's supposed to be.
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > > I'm sanding today and trying to smooth the entire surface. Getting
              > rid of all the texture is getting me into the weave in spots, so I'll
              > apply one more coat of epoxy and see how that goes, and then smooth
              > sand to 220 for varnish.
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > > I put up some photos of the canoe when I had it wet for final
              > sanding. I don't have any photos of the glass and epoxy. The album is
              > "Gumpy's 18 Footer".
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > > craig
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > > --- In cedarstripcanoes@ yahoogroups. com, Richard Berling
              > <rberling@ .> wrote:
              >
              > >
              >
              > > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > > > Craig: It sounds perfectly correct to me. The weave causes the
              >
              > >
              >
              > > > texture (something you want on the interior after only one coat of
              >
              > >
              >
              > > > epoxy). Sanding the exterior smooth to receive the varnish is
              >
              > >
              >
              > > > standard practice, only to be careful not to penetrate the weave.
              >
              > >
              >
              > > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > > > Usually I only put two layers of 6 oz cloth on the bottom only but
              >
              > >
              >
              > > > full coverage is OK but for the extra weight. One layer inside with a
              >
              > >
              >
              > > > six inch strip down the middle interior is adequate, the center line
              >
              > >
              >
              > > > being the weakest point in the canoe.
              >
              > >
              >
              > > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > > > I hope this helps. Post pictures, the accents sound great.
              >
              > >
              >
              > > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > > > Badgerberling
              >
              > >
              >
              > > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > > > On Jun 22, 2009, at 6:46 PM, shepard_c wrote:
              >
              > >
              >
              > > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > > > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > > > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > > > > hello. I'm new here.
              >
              > >
              >
              > > > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > > > > In 1992, I saw a 3 part article in Family Handyman on how to build
              >
              > >
              >
              > > > > an 18 foot cedar strip canoe. I decided I had to build one. So I
              >
              > >
              >
              > > > > bought all three issues and started. I built the strongback, and
              >
              > >
              >
              > > > > then, before I could start stripping, I had to move across country.
              >
              > >
              >
              > > > > I disassembled everything and packed it away and moved it with me.
              >
              > >
              >
              > > > > It's been sitting in the garage since. This spring, I finally
              > got to
              >
              > >
              >
              > > > > clean up some of the garage and found the strongback parts and
              >
              > >
              >
              > > > > decided the time was now....
              >
              > >
              >
              > > > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > > > > Flash forward about 8 weeks.... I have stripped the canoe with
              >
              > >
              >
              > > > > recycled red cedar with walnut, aspen and cherry accents, and
              >
              > >
              >
              > > > > inserted a 4 point navigational star inlay in the bottom. I ordered
              >
              > >
              >
              > > > > 6 oz cloth and System Three epoxy, and have laid up 2 layers of
              >
              > >
              >
              > > > > cloth on the hull. I'm now trying to put the final coats of
              > epoxy on
              >
              > >
              >
              > > > > and running into some issues with smoothness.
              >
              > >
              >
              > > > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > > > > I'm using foam rollers cut to 3 1/2 inches and laying on the epoxy
              >
              > >
              >
              > > > > as thin as I can to avoid runs. The last batch was 7 ounces of
              > resin
              >
              > >
              >
              > > > > and 3 1/2 ounces of medium hardener. I rolled it on and then tipped
              >
              > >
              >
              > > > > it out with a foam brush. The result was very smooth. However,
              > as it
              >
              > >
              >
              > > > > cured, the epoxy textured, similar to orange peel texture, and tiny
              >
              > >
              >
              > > > > pinholes.
              >
              > >
              >
              > > > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > > > > My prep prior to each coat of epoxy was to lightly sand previous
              >
              > >
              >
              > > > > coat with 120 grit RO sander, wipe off residue with damp sponge and
              >
              > >
              >
              > > > > dry with a cloth. I was concerned maybe I was not prepping
              > correctly
              >
              > >
              >
              > > > > so I called the place where I bought the epoxy. He said this is
              >
              > >
              >
              > > > > normal, and I'll need to final sand the epoxy to smoothness, prior
              >
              > >
              >
              > > > > to varnishing.
              >
              > >
              >
              > > > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > > > > Does this sound right? Or is it possible to get a nice smooth
              > finish
              >
              > >
              >
              > > > > on expoxy with minimal sanding at the end?
              >
              > >
              >
              > > > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > > > > Thanks for your suggestions.
              >
              > >
              >
              > > > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > > > > craig
              >
              > >
              >
              > > > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > > > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > > > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              > >
              >
              > > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              for a non slip grip , let me first say i use a sponge roller when i put
              the epoxy on the out side of my first canoe and i made the mistake of
              purchaseing a cheaper clothe/fur , what ever it is to do the inside for
              the last coat and it dimpled up, not so much that it caused peaks that
              would pierce the skin but enough to cause traction on my pitters, you
              might try that.
            • Anthony Spezio
              Don, I don t see a reply. Arkansas Tony ... From: Donald Kunsman Subject: Re: [Cedar Strip Canoes] Re: Introduction and question
              Message 6 of 29 , Jun 28, 2009
              • 0 Attachment
                Don,
                I don't see a reply.
                Arkansas Tony

                --- On Sun, 6/28/09, Donald Kunsman <deadphysh@...> wrote:

                From: Donald Kunsman <deadphysh@...>
                Subject: Re: [Cedar Strip Canoes] Re: Introduction and question regarding epoxy
                To: cedarstripcanoes@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Sunday, June 28, 2009, 11:04 AM

















                Anthony Spezio wrote:

                >

                >

                > Yes, I guess this can be done. The friend that the canoe was built for

                > is planning on doing that. He had mentioned it to me when we took it

                > out on a 6 mile run last March.

                > Thanks for the reply.

                > Arkansas Tony

                > --- On Sun, 6/28/09, gyipee <smart151@btinternet .com

                > <mailto:smart151% 40btinternet. com>> wrote:

                >

                > From: gyipee <smart151@btinternet .com <mailto:smart151% 40btinternet. com>>

                > Subject: [Cedar Strip Canoes] Re: Introduction and question regarding

                > epoxy

                > To: cedarstripcanoes@ yahoogroups. com

                > <mailto:cedarstripc anoes%40yahoogro ups.com>

                > Date: Sunday, June 28, 2009, 4:24 AM

                >

                > --- In cedarstripcanoes@ yahoogroups. com, bambotony@.. . wrote:

                >

                > >Hi As reguard to the problem of slipping on the inside with wet feet

                > ,could you put a little dryed sand in some varnish and coat it onto

                > the slippery area ,I did this with paint to the floor of an old boat

                > with great effect, adding a little sand to the paint gave me great

                > control to the amount of grip, rather than throwing sand on to the

                > paint after painting as I was told which I found to be uneven ,I

                > practiced on an old board first,

                >

                > Bogdolics.

                >

                > > I am a bit late on this.

                >

                > > We used System 3 Clear Coat on the last canoe and I was more than

                > delighted with the finish. The canoe was fiber glassed in late

                > September. The first coat was applied in the evening before it started

                > to cool down, the temps would be falling. The canoe was built and

                > fiber glassed under a open shelter about 50' from the river. It would

                > get foggy at night and early morning. This did not seem to affect the

                > finish. The first evening, the first coat was applied to the sanded

                > Cypress. The next evening the second coat was applied over the first

                > coat and the fiber glass laid over it. Then a wetting out coat was

                > applied and smooth up with a dry foam brush.. The following evening a

                > bottom fiberglass football was laid out over the first layer and

                > Epoxy applied. Six oz. cloth was used.

                >

                > > One more coat of Epoxy was applied on the whole canoe the following

                > evening. Each time the Epoxy was smooth up with a foam brush. No

                > sanding in between. The info says that a coat of Clear Coat Epoxy can

                > be applied

                >

                > > within seven days without sanding. The final coat of Epoxy was

                > sanded before applying the Urethane varnish several weeks later. The

                > same was done on the inside The finish is almost as smooth as glass

                > with no weave showing The only problem is that the inside is so smooth

                > that you really have to watch stepping in the canoe with wet feet. The

                > canoe I am building now, I will leave some weave showing on the inside

                > or put deck boards in the bottom. You can see the finished Cypress

                > canoe in the Photo Section in the 16' Cypress Canoe Files.The canoe I

                > am building now is under Bambotony Canoe file. It is Ceder and

                > Redwood. Will be adding more photos later. It is about 9 strips from

                > closing up the bottom. This will be my fifth canoe, three of those

                > were done with Poly Resin, I will stay with the Clear Coat

                >

                > > Arkansas Tony

                >

                > >

                >

                > > --- On Tue, 6/23/09, shepard_c <egroups@... > wrote:

                >

                > >

                >

                > > From: shepard_c <egroups@... >

                >

                > > Subject: Re: [Cedar Strip Canoes] Introduction and question

                > regarding epoxy

                >

                > > To: cedarstripcanoes@ yahoogroups. com

                >

                > > Date: Tuesday, June 23, 2009, 10:43 AM

                >

                > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > > This is different than the weave texture. I still a bit of that

                > showing, but this is more of an orange peel texture. When I was in

                > high school, my brother and I painted my 52 Chevy. The paint laid on

                > beautifully. Prior to shooting the clear, my brother wiped down the

                > truck with the prep solution using rags he had brought from home. We

                > shot the clear and were horrified to see it all bead up like water on

                > a freshly waxed car! Turned out, he had grabbed his wife's dust rags

                > which had Pledge furniture polish with wax on them. So we waxed the

                > truck before shooting the clear.

                >

                > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > > The texture of my epoxy is similar, though not as severe as that

                > clear coat story. I'm using new wiping rags fresh out of the package

                > to dry it, so no concern with contamination. It's just not laying as

                > flat and smooth as I expected. This is a first for me, though, so

                > maybe that's the way it's supposed to be.

                >

                > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > > I'm sanding today and trying to smooth the entire surface. Getting

                > rid of all the texture is getting me into the weave in spots, so I'll

                > apply one more coat of epoxy and see how that goes, and then smooth

                > sand to 220 for varnish.

                >

                > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > > I put up some photos of the canoe when I had it wet for final

                > sanding. I don't have any photos of the glass and epoxy. The album is

                > "Gumpy's 18 Footer".

                >

                > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > > craig

                >

                > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > > --- In cedarstripcanoes@ yahoogroups. com, Richard Berling

                > <rberling@ .> wrote:

                >

                > >

                >

                > > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > > > Craig: It sounds perfectly correct to me. The weave causes the

                >

                > >

                >

                > > > texture (something you want on the interior after only one coat of

                >

                > >

                >

                > > > epoxy). Sanding the exterior smooth to receive the varnish is

                >

                > >

                >

                > > > standard practice, only to be careful not to penetrate the weave.

                >

                > >

                >

                > > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > > > Usually I only put two layers of 6 oz cloth on the bottom only but

                >

                > >

                >

                > > > full coverage is OK but for the extra weight. One layer inside with a

                >

                > >

                >

                > > > six inch strip down the middle interior is adequate, the center line

                >

                > >

                >

                > > > being the weakest point in the canoe.

                >

                > >

                >

                > > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > > > I hope this helps. Post pictures, the accents sound great.

                >

                > >

                >

                > > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > > > Badgerberling

                >

                > >

                >

                > > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > > > On Jun 22, 2009, at 6:46 PM, shepard_c wrote:

                >

                > >

                >

                > > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > > > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > > > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > > > > hello. I'm new here.

                >

                > >

                >

                > > > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > > > > In 1992, I saw a 3 part article in Family Handyman on how to build

                >

                > >

                >

                > > > > an 18 foot cedar strip canoe. I decided I had to build one. So I

                >

                > >

                >

                > > > > bought all three issues and started. I built the strongback, and

                >

                > >

                >

                > > > > then, before I could start stripping, I had to move across country.

                >

                > >

                >

                > > > > I disassembled everything and packed it away and moved it with me.

                >

                > >

                >

                > > > > It's been sitting in the garage since. This spring, I finally

                > got to

                >

                > >

                >

                > > > > clean up some of the garage and found the strongback parts and

                >

                > >

                >

                > > > > decided the time was now....

                >

                > >

                >

                > > > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > > > > Flash forward about 8 weeks.... I have stripped the canoe with

                >

                > >

                >

                > > > > recycled red cedar with walnut, aspen and cherry accents, and

                >

                > >

                >

                > > > > inserted a 4 point navigational star inlay in the bottom. I ordered

                >

                > >

                >

                > > > > 6 oz cloth and System Three epoxy, and have laid up 2 layers of

                >

                > >

                >

                > > > > cloth on the hull. I'm now trying to put the final coats of

                > epoxy on

                >

                > >

                >

                > > > > and running into some issues with smoothness.

                >

                > >

                >

                > > > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > > > > I'm using foam rollers cut to 3 1/2 inches and laying on the epoxy

                >

                > >

                >

                > > > > as thin as I can to avoid runs. The last batch was 7 ounces of

                > resin

                >

                > >

                >

                > > > > and 3 1/2 ounces of medium hardener. I rolled it on and then tipped

                >

                > >

                >

                > > > > it out with a foam brush. The result was very smooth. However,

                > as it

                >

                > >

                >

                > > > > cured, the epoxy textured, similar to orange peel texture, and tiny

                >

                > >

                >

                > > > > pinholes.

                >

                > >

                >

                > > > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > > > > My prep prior to each coat of epoxy was to lightly sand previous

                >

                > >

                >

                > > > > coat with 120 grit RO sander, wipe off residue with damp sponge and

                >

                > >

                >

                > > > > dry with a cloth. I was concerned maybe I was not prepping

                > correctly

                >

                > >

                >

                > > > > so I called the place where I bought the epoxy. He said this is

                >

                > >

                >

                > > > > normal, and I'll need to final sand the epoxy to smoothness, prior

                >

                > >

                >

                > > > > to varnishing.

                >

                > >

                >

                > > > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > > > > Does this sound right? Or is it possible to get a nice smooth

                > finish

                >

                > >

                >

                > > > > on expoxy with minimal sanding at the end?

                >

                > >

                >

                > > > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > > > > Thanks for your suggestions.

                >

                > >

                >

                > > > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > > > > craig

                >

                > >

                >

                > > > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > > > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > > > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                >

                > >

                >

                > > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                >

                > >

                >

                >

                >

                >

                >

                >

                >

                >

                >

                >

                >

                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                >

                >

                for a non slip grip , let me first say i use a sponge roller when i put

                the epoxy on the out side of my first canoe and i made the mistake of

                purchaseing a cheaper clothe/fur , what ever it is to do the inside for

                the last coat and it dimpled up, not so much that it caused peaks that

                would pierce the skin but enough to cause traction on my pitters, you

                might try that.































                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Joe Tribulato
                I found the reply WAAAAAY at the bottom. Please let s all be considerate and remember to put your reply at the TOP and delete irelevant stuff below. Also sign
                Message 7 of 29 , Jun 28, 2009
                • 0 Attachment
                  I found the reply WAAAAAY at the bottom.
                  Please let's all be considerate and remember to put your reply at the TOP and delete irelevant stuff below. Also sign your posts.

                  Joe T

                  --- In cedarstripcanoes@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Spezio <bambotony@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Don,
                  > I don't see a reply.
                  > Arkansas Tony
                  >
                  > --- On Sun, 6/28/09, Donald Kunsman <deadphysh@...> wrote: ...
                • Anthony Spezio
                  Thanks Joe, It was a long way to the bottom but I found it. Thanks Don, That might work for me. Arkansas Tony ... From: Joe Tribulato
                  Message 8 of 29 , Jun 28, 2009
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Thanks Joe,
                    It was a long way to the bottom but I found it.
                    Thanks Don, That might work for me.
                    Arkansas Tony

                    --- On Sun, 6/28/09, Joe Tribulato <scsbmsjoe@...> wrote:

                    From: Joe Tribulato <scsbmsjoe@...>
                    Subject: [Cedar Strip Canoes] Re: Introduction and question regarding epoxy
                    To: cedarstripcanoes@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Sunday, June 28, 2009, 7:56 PM

















                    I found the reply WAAAAAY at the bottom.

                    Please let's all be considerate and remember to put your reply at the TOP and delete irelevant stuff below. Also sign your posts.



                    Joe T



                    --- In cedarstripcanoes@ yahoogroups. com, Anthony Spezio <bambotony@. ..> wrote:

                    >

                    > Don,

                    > I don't see a reply.

                    > Arkansas Tony

                    >

                    > --- On Sun, 6/28/09, Donald Kunsman <deadphysh@. ..> wrote: ...































                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Donald Kunsman
                    it was lost in the ether somewhere, and at this point much too late lol
                    Message 9 of 29 , Jun 29, 2009
                    • 0 Attachment
                      it was lost in the ether somewhere, and at this point much too late lol

                      Anthony Spezio wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > Don,
                      > I don't see a reply.
                      > Arkansas Tony
                      >
                      > --- On Sun, 6/28/09, Donald Kunsman <deadphysh@...
                      > <mailto:deadphysh%40comcast.net>> wrote:
                      >
                      > From: Donald Kunsman <deadphysh@...
                      > <mailto:deadphysh%40comcast.net>>
                      > Subject: Re: [Cedar Strip Canoes] Re: Introduction and question
                      > regarding epoxy
                      > To: cedarstripcanoes@yahoogroups.com
                      > <mailto:cedarstripcanoes%40yahoogroups.com>
                      > Date: Sunday, June 28, 2009, 11:04 AM
                      >
                      > Anthony Spezio wrote:
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > Yes, I guess this can be done. The friend that the canoe was built for
                      >
                      > > is planning on doing that. He had mentioned it to me when we took it
                      >
                      > > out on a 6 mile run last March.
                      >
                      > > Thanks for the reply.
                      >
                      > > Arkansas Tony
                      >
                      > > --- On Sun, 6/28/09, gyipee <smart151@btinternet .com
                      >
                      > > <mailto:smart151% 40btinternet. com>> wrote:
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > From: gyipee <smart151@btinternet .com <mailto:smart151%
                      > 40btinternet. com>>
                      >
                      > > Subject: [Cedar Strip Canoes] Re: Introduction and question regarding
                      >
                      > > epoxy
                      >
                      > > To: cedarstripcanoes@ yahoogroups. com
                      >
                      > > <mailto:cedarstripc anoes%40yahoogro ups.com>
                      >
                      > > Date: Sunday, June 28, 2009, 4:24 AM
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > --- In cedarstripcanoes@ yahoogroups. com, bambotony@.. . wrote:
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >Hi As reguard to the problem of slipping on the inside with wet feet
                      >
                      > > ,could you put a little dryed sand in some varnish and coat it onto
                      >
                      > > the slippery area ,I did this with paint to the floor of an old boat
                      >
                      > > with great effect, adding a little sand to the paint gave me great
                      >
                      > > control to the amount of grip, rather than throwing sand on to the
                      >
                      > > paint after painting as I was told which I found to be uneven ,I
                      >
                      > > practiced on an old board first,
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > Bogdolics.
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > I am a bit late on this.
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > We used System 3 Clear Coat on the last canoe and I was more than
                      >
                      > > delighted with the finish. The canoe was fiber glassed in late
                      >
                      > > September. The first coat was applied in the evening before it started
                      >
                      > > to cool down, the temps would be falling. The canoe was built and
                      >
                      > > fiber glassed under a open shelter about 50' from the river. It would
                      >
                      > > get foggy at night and early morning. This did not seem to affect the
                      >
                      > > finish. The first evening, the first coat was applied to the sanded
                      >
                      > > Cypress. The next evening the second coat was applied over the first
                      >
                      > > coat and the fiber glass laid over it. Then a wetting out coat was
                      >
                      > > applied and smooth up with a dry foam brush.. The following evening a
                      >
                      > > bottom fiberglass football was laid out over the first layer and
                      >
                      > > Epoxy applied. Six oz. cloth was used.
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > One more coat of Epoxy was applied on the whole canoe the following
                      >
                      > > evening. Each time the Epoxy was smooth up with a foam brush. No
                      >
                      > > sanding in between. The info says that a coat of Clear Coat Epoxy can
                      >
                      > > be applied
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > within seven days without sanding. The final coat of Epoxy was
                      >
                      > > sanded before applying the Urethane varnish several weeks later. The
                      >
                      > > same was done on the inside The finish is almost as smooth as glass
                      >
                      > > with no weave showing The only problem is that the inside is so smooth
                      >
                      > > that you really have to watch stepping in the canoe with wet feet. The
                      >
                      > > canoe I am building now, I will leave some weave showing on the inside
                      >
                      > > or put deck boards in the bottom. You can see the finished Cypress
                      >
                      > > canoe in the Photo Section in the 16' Cypress Canoe Files.The canoe I
                      >
                      > > am building now is under Bambotony Canoe file. It is Ceder and
                      >
                      > > Redwood. Will be adding more photos later. It is about 9 strips from
                      >
                      > > closing up the bottom. This will be my fifth canoe, three of those
                      >
                      > > were done with Poly Resin, I will stay with the Clear Coat
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > Arkansas Tony
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > --- On Tue, 6/23/09, shepard_c <egroups@... > wrote:
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > From: shepard_c <egroups@... >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > Subject: Re: [Cedar Strip Canoes] Introduction and question
                      >
                      > > regarding epoxy
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > To: cedarstripcanoes@ yahoogroups. com
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > Date: Tuesday, June 23, 2009, 10:43 AM
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > This is different than the weave texture. I still a bit of that
                      >
                      > > showing, but this is more of an orange peel texture. When I was in
                      >
                      > > high school, my brother and I painted my 52 Chevy. The paint laid on
                      >
                      > > beautifully. Prior to shooting the clear, my brother wiped down the
                      >
                      > > truck with the prep solution using rags he had brought from home. We
                      >
                      > > shot the clear and were horrified to see it all bead up like water on
                      >
                      > > a freshly waxed car! Turned out, he had grabbed his wife's dust rags
                      >
                      > > which had Pledge furniture polish with wax on them. So we waxed the
                      >
                      > > truck before shooting the clear.
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > The texture of my epoxy is similar, though not as severe as that
                      >
                      > > clear coat story. I'm using new wiping rags fresh out of the package
                      >
                      > > to dry it, so no concern with contamination. It's just not laying as
                      >
                      > > flat and smooth as I expected. This is a first for me, though, so
                      >
                      > > maybe that's the way it's supposed to be.
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > I'm sanding today and trying to smooth the entire surface. Getting
                      >
                      > > rid of all the texture is getting me into the weave in spots, so I'll
                      >
                      > > apply one more coat of epoxy and see how that goes, and then smooth
                      >
                      > > sand to 220 for varnish.
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > I put up some photos of the canoe when I had it wet for final
                      >
                      > > sanding. I don't have any photos of the glass and epoxy. The album is
                      >
                      > > "Gumpy's 18 Footer".
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > craig
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > --- In cedarstripcanoes@ yahoogroups. com, Richard Berling
                      >
                      > > <rberling@ .> wrote:
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > > Craig: It sounds perfectly correct to me. The weave causes the
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > > texture (something you want on the interior after only one coat of
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > > epoxy). Sanding the exterior smooth to receive the varnish is
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > > standard practice, only to be careful not to penetrate the weave.
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > > Usually I only put two layers of 6 oz cloth on the bottom only but
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > > full coverage is OK but for the extra weight. One layer inside
                      > with a
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > > six inch strip down the middle interior is adequate, the center line
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > > being the weakest point in the canoe.
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > > I hope this helps. Post pictures, the accents sound great.
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > > Badgerberling
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > > On Jun 22, 2009, at 6:46 PM, shepard_c wrote:
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > > > hello. I'm new here.
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > > > In 1992, I saw a 3 part article in Family Handyman on how to build
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > > > an 18 foot cedar strip canoe. I decided I had to build one. So I
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > > > bought all three issues and started. I built the strongback, and
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > > > then, before I could start stripping, I had to move across
                      > country.
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > > > I disassembled everything and packed it away and moved it with me.
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > > > It's been sitting in the garage since. This spring, I finally
                      >
                      > > got to
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > > > clean up some of the garage and found the strongback parts and
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > > > decided the time was now....
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > > > Flash forward about 8 weeks.... I have stripped the canoe with
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > > > recycled red cedar with walnut, aspen and cherry accents, and
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > > > inserted a 4 point navigational star inlay in the bottom. I
                      > ordered
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > > > 6 oz cloth and System Three epoxy, and have laid up 2 layers of
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > > > cloth on the hull. I'm now trying to put the final coats of
                      >
                      > > epoxy on
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > > > and running into some issues with smoothness.
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > > > I'm using foam rollers cut to 3 1/2 inches and laying on the epoxy
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > > > as thin as I can to avoid runs. The last batch was 7 ounces of
                      >
                      > > resin
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > > > and 3 1/2 ounces of medium hardener. I rolled it on and then
                      > tipped
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > > > it out with a foam brush. The result was very smooth. However,
                      >
                      > > as it
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > > > cured, the epoxy textured, similar to orange peel texture, and
                      > tiny
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > > > pinholes.
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > > > My prep prior to each coat of epoxy was to lightly sand previous
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > > > coat with 120 grit RO sander, wipe off residue with damp
                      > sponge and
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > > > dry with a cloth. I was concerned maybe I was not prepping
                      >
                      > > correctly
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > > > so I called the place where I bought the epoxy. He said this is
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > > > normal, and I'll need to final sand the epoxy to smoothness, prior
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > > > to varnishing.
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > > > Does this sound right? Or is it possible to get a nice smooth
                      >
                      > > finish
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > > > on expoxy with minimal sanding at the end?
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > > > Thanks for your suggestions.
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > > > craig
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
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                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
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                      > > >
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                      > >
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                      > > >
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                      > >
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                      > > >
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                      > >
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                      > > >
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                      > >
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                      > > >
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                      > >
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                      > > >
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                      > >
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                      > > >
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                      > >
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                      > > >
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                      > >
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                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
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                      > > >
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                      > >
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                      > > >
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                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
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                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
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                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > for a non slip grip , let me first say i use a sponge roller when i put
                      >
                      > the epoxy on the out side of my first canoe and i made the mistake of
                      >
                      > purchaseing a cheaper clothe/fur , what ever it is to do the inside for
                      >
                      > the last coat and it dimpled up, not so much that it caused peaks that
                      >
                      > would pierce the skin but enough to cause traction on my pitters, you
                      >
                      > might try that.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                    • Anthony Spezio
                      I am very pleased with the Clear Coat. No strong smell, long working time and have seven days to apply more Epoxy without having to sand. This don t mean it is
                      Message 10 of 29 , Jun 29, 2009
                      • 0 Attachment
                        I am very pleased with the Clear Coat. No strong smell, long working time and have seven days to apply more Epoxy without having to sand. This don't mean it is the best Epoxy to use but for me, it was the best so far. As you can see the finished Cypress Canoe in the photos, it is totally clear.
                        Arkansas Tony

                        --- On Sat, 6/27/09, shepard_c <egroups@...> wrote:

                        From: shepard_c <egroups@...>
                        Subject: Re: [Cedar Strip Canoes] Introduction and question regarding epoxy
                        To: cedarstripcanoes@yahoogroups.com
                        Date: Saturday, June 27, 2009, 9:16 PM

















                        Hmm. I'm using System Three General Purpose epoxy. I wonder if I should be using the Clear Coat, instead. It says it is low viscosity. Also says, "Use Clear Coat as the sole epoxy system to make wood strip canoes and kayaks."



                        --- In cedarstripcanoes@ yahoogroups. com, bambotony@.. . wrote:

                        >

                        > I am a bit late on this.

                        > We used System 3 Clear Coat on the last canoe and I was more than delighted with the finish. The canoe was fiber glassed in late September. The first coat was applied in the evening before it started to cool down, the temps would be falling. The canoe was built and fiber glassed under a open shelter about 50' from the river. It would get foggy at night and early morning. This did not seem to affect the finish. The first evening, the first coat was applied to the sanded Cypress.  The next evening the second coat was applied over the first coat and the fiber glass laid over it. Then a wetting out coat was applied and smooth up with a dry foam brush.. The following evening a bottom  fiberglass football was laid out over the first layer and Epoxy applied. Six oz. cloth was used.

                        > One more coat of Epoxy was applied on the whole canoe the following evening. Each time the Epoxy was smooth up with a foam brush. No sanding in between. The info says that a coat of Clear Coat Epoxy can be applied

                        > within seven days without sanding. The final coat of Epoxy was sanded before applying the Urethane varnish several weeks later. The same was done on the inside The finish is almost as smooth as glass with no weave showing The only problem is that the inside is so smooth that you really have to watch stepping in the canoe with wet feet. The canoe I am building now, I will leave some weave showing on the inside or put deck boards in the bottom. You can see the finished Cypress canoe in the Photo Section in the 16' Cypress Canoe Files.The canoe I am building now is under Bambotony Canoe file. It is Ceder and Redwood. Will be adding more photos later. It is about 9 strips from closing up the bottom. This will be my fifth canoe, three of those were done with Poly Resin, I will stay with the Clear Coat

                        > Arkansas Tony

                        >

                        > --- On Tue, 6/23/09, shepard_c <egroups@... > wrote:

                        >

                        > From: shepard_c <egroups@... >

                        > Subject: Re: [Cedar Strip Canoes] Introduction and question regarding epoxy

                        > To: cedarstripcanoes@ yahoogroups. com

                        > Date: Tuesday, June 23, 2009, 10:43 AM

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        > This is different than the weave texture. I still a bit of that showing, but this is more of an orange peel texture. When I was in high school, my brother and I painted my 52 Chevy. The paint laid on beautifully. Prior to shooting the clear, my brother wiped down the truck with the prep solution using rags he had brought from home. We shot the clear and were horrified to see it all bead up like water on a freshly waxed car! Turned out, he had grabbed his wife's dust rags which had Pledge furniture polish with wax on them. So we waxed the truck before shooting the clear.

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        > The texture of my epoxy is similar, though not as severe as that clear coat story. I'm using new wiping rags fresh out of the package to dry it, so no concern with contamination. It's just not laying as flat and smooth as I expected. This is a first for me, though, so maybe that's the way it's supposed to be.

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        > I'm sanding today and trying to smooth the entire surface. Getting rid of all the texture is getting me into the weave in spots, so I'll apply one more coat of epoxy and see how that goes, and then smooth sand to 220 for varnish.

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        > I put up some photos of the canoe when I had it wet for final sanding. I don't have any photos of the glass and epoxy. The album is "Gumpy's 18 Footer".

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        > craig

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        > --- In cedarstripcanoes@ yahoogroups. com, Richard Berling <rberling@ .> wrote:

                        >

                        > >

                        >

                        > >

                        >

                        > > Craig: It sounds perfectly correct to me. The weave causes the

                        >

                        > > texture (something you want on the interior after only one coat of

                        >

                        > > epoxy). Sanding the exterior smooth to receive the varnish is

                        >

                        > > standard practice, only to be careful not to penetrate the weave.

                        >

                        > >

                        >

                        > > Usually I only put two layers of 6 oz cloth on the bottom only but

                        >

                        > > full coverage is OK but for the extra weight. One layer inside with a

                        >

                        > > six inch strip down the middle interior is adequate, the center line

                        >

                        > > being the weakest point in the canoe.

                        >

                        > >

                        >

                        > > I hope this helps. Post pictures, the accents sound great.

                        >

                        > >

                        >

                        > > Badgerberling

                        >

                        > >

                        >

                        > > On Jun 22, 2009, at 6:46 PM, shepard_c wrote:

                        >

                        > >

                        >

                        > > >

                        >

                        > > >

                        >

                        > > > hello. I'm new here.

                        >

                        > > >

                        >

                        > > > In 1992, I saw a 3 part article in Family Handyman on how to build

                        >

                        > > > an 18 foot cedar strip canoe. I decided I had to build one. So I

                        >

                        > > > bought all three issues and started. I built the strongback, and

                        >

                        > > > then, before I could start stripping, I had to move across country.

                        >

                        > > > I disassembled everything and packed it away and moved it with me.

                        >

                        > > > It's been sitting in the garage since. This spring, I finally got to

                        >

                        > > > clean up some of the garage and found the strongback parts and

                        >

                        > > > decided the time was now....

                        >

                        > > >

                        >

                        > > > Flash forward about 8 weeks.... I have stripped the canoe with

                        >

                        > > > recycled red cedar with walnut, aspen and cherry accents, and

                        >

                        > > > inserted a 4 point navigational star inlay in the bottom. I ordered

                        >

                        > > > 6 oz cloth and System Three epoxy, and have laid up 2 layers of

                        >

                        > > > cloth on the hull. I'm now trying to put the final coats of epoxy on

                        >

                        > > > and running into some issues with smoothness.

                        >

                        > > >

                        >

                        > > > I'm using foam rollers cut to 3 1/2 inches and laying on the epoxy

                        >

                        > > > as thin as I can to avoid runs. The last batch was 7 ounces of resin

                        >

                        > > > and 3 1/2 ounces of medium hardener. I rolled it on and then tipped

                        >

                        > > > it out with a foam brush. The result was very smooth. However, as it

                        >

                        > > > cured, the epoxy textured, similar to orange peel texture, and tiny

                        >

                        > > > pinholes.

                        >

                        > > >

                        >

                        > > > My prep prior to each coat of epoxy was to lightly sand previous

                        >

                        > > > coat with 120 grit RO sander, wipe off residue with damp sponge and

                        >

                        > > > dry with a cloth. I was concerned maybe I was not prepping correctly

                        >

                        > > > so I called the place where I bought the epoxy. He said this is

                        >

                        > > > normal, and I'll need to final sand the epoxy to smoothness, prior

                        >

                        > > > to varnishing.

                        >

                        > > >

                        >

                        > > > Does this sound right? Or is it possible to get a nice smooth finish

                        >

                        > > > on expoxy with minimal sanding at the end?

                        >

                        > > >

                        >

                        > > > Thanks for your suggestions.

                        >

                        > > >

                        >

                        > > > craig

                        >

                        > > >

                        >

                        > > >

                        >

                        > > >

                        >

                        > >

                        >

                        > >

                        >

                        > >

                        >

                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                        >

                        > >

                        >

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                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • shepard_c
                        I sent a message off to System Three to see what they might have to say about the texture problem. I ve almost got it sanded smooth. I m using 320 grit,
                        Message 11 of 29 , Jun 29, 2009
                        • 0 Attachment
                          I sent a message off to System Three to see what they might have to say about the texture problem.

                          I've almost got it sanded smooth. I'm using 320 grit, followed by wet sanding with 400 grit. I've exposed the weave again in about 8 places, so will spot coat those and sand them individually to complete.

                          Hoping to get the outside done today and turn the canoe tomorrow or the next day. Getting real tired of sanding.





                          -- In cedarstripcanoes@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Spezio <bambotony@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > I am very pleased with the Clear Coat. No strong smell, long working time and have seven days to apply more Epoxy without having to sand. This don't mean it is the best Epoxy to use but for me, it was the best so far. As you can see the finished Cypress Canoe in the photos, it is totally clear.
                          > Arkansas Tony
                          >
                          > --- On Sat, 6/27/09, shepard_c <egroups@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > From: shepard_c <egroups@...>
                          > Subject: Re: [Cedar Strip Canoes] Introduction and question regarding epoxy
                          > To: cedarstripcanoes@yahoogroups.com
                          > Date: Saturday, June 27, 2009, 9:16 PM
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Hmm. I'm using System Three General Purpose epoxy. I wonder if I should be using the Clear Coat, instead. It says it is low viscosity. Also says, "Use Clear Coat as the sole epoxy system to make wood strip canoes and kayaks."
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In cedarstripcanoes@ yahoogroups. com, bambotony@ . wrote:
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > I am a bit late on this.
                          >
                          > > We used System 3 Clear Coat on the last canoe and I was more than delighted with the finish. The canoe was fiber glassed in late September. The first coat was applied in the evening before it started to cool down, the temps would be falling. The canoe was built and fiber glassed under a open shelter about 50' from the river. It would get foggy at night and early morning. This did not seem to affect the finish. The first evening, the first coat was applied to the sanded Cypress.  The next evening the second coat was applied over the first coat and the fiber glass laid over it. Then a wetting out coat was applied and smooth up with a dry foam brush.. The following evening a bottom  fiberglass football was laid out over the first layer and Epoxy applied. Six oz. cloth was used.
                          >
                          > > One more coat of Epoxy was applied on the whole canoe the following evening. Each time the Epoxy was smooth up with a foam brush. No sanding in between. The info says that a coat of Clear Coat Epoxy can be applied
                          >
                          > > within seven days without sanding. The final coat of Epoxy was sanded before applying the Urethane varnish several weeks later. The same was done on the inside The finish is almost as smooth as glass with no weave showing The only problem is that the inside is so smooth that you really have to watch stepping in the canoe with wet feet. The canoe I am building now, I will leave some weave showing on the inside or put deck boards in the bottom. You can see the finished Cypress canoe in the Photo Section in the 16' Cypress Canoe Files.The canoe I am building now is under Bambotony Canoe file. It is Ceder and Redwood. Will be adding more photos later. It is about 9 strips from closing up the bottom. This will be my fifth canoe, three of those were done with Poly Resin, I will stay with the Clear Coat
                          >
                          > > Arkansas Tony
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > --- On Tue, 6/23/09, shepard_c <egroups@ > wrote:
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > From: shepard_c <egroups@ >
                          >
                          > > Subject: Re: [Cedar Strip Canoes] Introduction and question regarding epoxy
                          >
                          > > To: cedarstripcanoes@ yahoogroups. com
                          >
                          > > Date: Tuesday, June 23, 2009, 10:43 AM
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > >
                          >
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                          > >
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > This is different than the weave texture. I still a bit of that showing, but this is more of an orange peel texture. When I was in high school, my brother and I painted my 52 Chevy. The paint laid on beautifully. Prior to shooting the clear, my brother wiped down the truck with the prep solution using rags he had brought from home. We shot the clear and were horrified to see it all bead up like water on a freshly waxed car! Turned out, he had grabbed his wife's dust rags which had Pledge furniture polish with wax on them. So we waxed the truck before shooting the clear.
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > The texture of my epoxy is similar, though not as severe as that clear coat story. I'm using new wiping rags fresh out of the package to dry it, so no concern with contamination. It's just not laying as flat and smooth as I expected. This is a first for me, though, so maybe that's the way it's supposed to be.
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > I'm sanding today and trying to smooth the entire surface. Getting rid of all the texture is getting me into the weave in spots, so I'll apply one more coat of epoxy and see how that goes, and then smooth sand to 220 for varnish.
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > I put up some photos of the canoe when I had it wet for final sanding. I don't have any photos of the glass and epoxy. The album is "Gumpy's 18 Footer".
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > craig
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > --- In cedarstripcanoes@ yahoogroups. com, Richard Berling <rberling@ .> wrote:
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > >
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > >
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > > Craig: It sounds perfectly correct to me. The weave causes the
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > > texture (something you want on the interior after only one coat of
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > > epoxy). Sanding the exterior smooth to receive the varnish is
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > > standard practice, only to be careful not to penetrate the weave.
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > >
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > > Usually I only put two layers of 6 oz cloth on the bottom only but
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > > full coverage is OK but for the extra weight. One layer inside with a
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > > six inch strip down the middle interior is adequate, the center line
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > > being the weakest point in the canoe.
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > >
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > > I hope this helps. Post pictures, the accents sound great.
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > >
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > > Badgerberling
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > >
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > > On Jun 22, 2009, at 6:46 PM, shepard_c wrote:
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > >
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > > >
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > > >
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > > > hello. I'm new here.
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > > >
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > > > In 1992, I saw a 3 part article in Family Handyman on how to build
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > > > an 18 foot cedar strip canoe. I decided I had to build one. So I
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > > > bought all three issues and started. I built the strongback, and
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > > > then, before I could start stripping, I had to move across country.
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > > > I disassembled everything and packed it away and moved it with me.
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > > > It's been sitting in the garage since. This spring, I finally got to
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > > > clean up some of the garage and found the strongback parts and
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > > > decided the time was now....
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > > >
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > > > Flash forward about 8 weeks.... I have stripped the canoe with
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > > > recycled red cedar with walnut, aspen and cherry accents, and
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > > > inserted a 4 point navigational star inlay in the bottom. I ordered
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > > > 6 oz cloth and System Three epoxy, and have laid up 2 layers of
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > > > cloth on the hull. I'm now trying to put the final coats of epoxy on
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > > > and running into some issues with smoothness.
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > > >
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > > > I'm using foam rollers cut to 3 1/2 inches and laying on the epoxy
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > > > as thin as I can to avoid runs. The last batch was 7 ounces of resin
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > > > and 3 1/2 ounces of medium hardener. I rolled it on and then tipped
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > > > it out with a foam brush. The result was very smooth. However, as it
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > > > cured, the epoxy textured, similar to orange peel texture, and tiny
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > > > pinholes.
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > > >
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > > > My prep prior to each coat of epoxy was to lightly sand previous
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > > > coat with 120 grit RO sander, wipe off residue with damp sponge and
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > > > dry with a cloth. I was concerned maybe I was not prepping correctly
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > > > so I called the place where I bought the epoxy. He said this is
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > > > normal, and I'll need to final sand the epoxy to smoothness, prior
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > > > to varnishing.
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > > >
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > > > Does this sound right? Or is it possible to get a nice smooth finish
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > > > on expoxy with minimal sanding at the end?
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > > >
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > > > Thanks for your suggestions.
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > > >
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > > > craig
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > > >
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > > >
                          >
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                          > > > >
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                          > >
                          >
                          > > >
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > >
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                        • Anthony Spezio
                          Keep us posted, I have only done the one canoe with Clear Coat and as I said, I was real pleased. I am wondering if the fiberglass cloth might of had something
                          Message 12 of 29 , Jun 29, 2009
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Keep us posted, I have only done the one canoe with Clear Coat and as I said, I was real pleased. I am wondering if the fiberglass cloth might of had something in it that contaminated the resin. Are you using Clear Coat Resin or one of the other System 3 Resins. They have several different types.
                            Arkansas Tony.

                            --- On Mon, 6/29/09, shepard_c <egroups@...> wrote:

                            From: shepard_c <egroups@...>
                            Subject: Re: [Cedar Strip Canoes] Introduction and question regarding epoxy
                            To: cedarstripcanoes@yahoogroups.com
                            Date: Monday, June 29, 2009, 8:22 AM

















                            I sent a message off to System Three to see what they might have to say about the texture problem.



                            I've almost got it sanded smooth. I'm using 320 grit, followed by wet sanding with 400 grit. I've exposed the weave again in about 8 places, so will spot coat those and sand them individually to complete.



                            Hoping to get the outside done today and turn the canoe tomorrow or the next day. Getting real tired of sanding.



                            -- In cedarstripcanoes@ yahoogroups. com, Anthony Spezio <bambotony@. ..> wrote:

                            >

                            > I am very pleased with the Clear Coat. No strong smell, long working time and have seven days to apply more Epoxy without having to sand. This don't mean it is the best Epoxy to use but for me, it was the best so far. As you can see the finished Cypress Canoe in the photos, it is totally clear.

                            > Arkansas Tony

                            >

                            > --- On Sat, 6/27/09, shepard_c <egroups@... > wrote:

                            >

                            > From: shepard_c <egroups@... >

                            > Subject: Re: [Cedar Strip Canoes] Introduction and question regarding epoxy

                            > To: cedarstripcanoes@ yahoogroups. com

                            > Date: Saturday, June 27, 2009, 9:16 PM

                            >

                            >

                            >

                            >

                            >

                            >

                            >

                            >

                            >

                            >

                            >

                            >

                            >

                            >

                            >

                            >

                            >

                            > Hmm. I'm using System Three General Purpose epoxy. I wonder if I should be using the Clear Coat, instead. It says it is low viscosity. Also says, "Use Clear Coat as the sole epoxy system to make wood strip canoes and kayaks."

                            >

                            >

                            >

                            > --- In cedarstripcanoes@ yahoogroups. com, bambotony@ . wrote:

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > > I am a bit late on this.

                            >

                            > > We used System 3 Clear Coat on the last canoe and I was more than delighted with the finish. The canoe was fiber glassed in late September. The first coat was applied in the evening before it started to cool down, the temps would be falling. The canoe was built and fiber glassed under a open shelter about 50' from the river. It would get foggy at night and early morning. This did not seem to affect the finish. The first evening, the first coat was applied to the sanded Cypress.  The next evening the second coat was applied over the first coat and the fiber glass laid over it. Then a wetting out coat was applied and smooth up with a dry foam brush.. The following evening a bottom  fiberglass football was laid out over the first layer and Epoxy applied. Six oz. cloth was used.

                            >

                            > > One more coat of Epoxy was applied on the whole canoe the following evening. Each time the Epoxy was smooth up with a foam brush. No sanding in between. The info says that a coat of Clear Coat Epoxy can be applied

                            >

                            > > within seven days without sanding. The final coat of Epoxy was sanded before applying the Urethane varnish several weeks later. The same was done on the inside The finish is almost as smooth as glass with no weave showing The only problem is that the inside is so smooth that you really have to watch stepping in the canoe with wet feet. The canoe I am building now, I will leave some weave showing on the inside or put deck boards in the bottom. You can see the finished Cypress canoe in the Photo Section in the 16' Cypress Canoe Files.The canoe I am building now is under Bambotony Canoe file. It is Ceder and Redwood. Will be adding more photos later. It is about 9 strips from closing up the bottom. This will be my fifth canoe, three of those were done with Poly Resin, I will stay with the Clear Coat

                            >

                            > > Arkansas Tony

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > > --- On Tue, 6/23/09, shepard_c <egroups@ > wrote:

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > > From: shepard_c <egroups@ >

                            >

                            > > Subject: Re: [Cedar Strip Canoes] Introduction and question regarding epoxy

                            >

                            > > To: cedarstripcanoes@ yahoogroups. com

                            >

                            > > Date: Tuesday, June 23, 2009, 10:43 AM

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > > This is different than the weave texture. I still a bit of that showing, but this is more of an orange peel texture. When I was in high school, my brother and I painted my 52 Chevy. The paint laid on beautifully. Prior to shooting the clear, my brother wiped down the truck with the prep solution using rags he had brought from home. We shot the clear and were horrified to see it all bead up like water on a freshly waxed car! Turned out, he had grabbed his wife's dust rags which had Pledge furniture polish with wax on them. So we waxed the truck before shooting the clear.

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > > The texture of my epoxy is similar, though not as severe as that clear coat story. I'm using new wiping rags fresh out of the package to dry it, so no concern with contamination. It's just not laying as flat and smooth as I expected. This is a first for me, though, so maybe that's the way it's supposed to be.

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > > I'm sanding today and trying to smooth the entire surface. Getting rid of all the texture is getting me into the weave in spots, so I'll apply one more coat of epoxy and see how that goes, and then smooth sand to 220 for varnish.

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > > I put up some photos of the canoe when I had it wet for final sanding. I don't have any photos of the glass and epoxy. The album is "Gumpy's 18 Footer".

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > > craig

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > > --- In cedarstripcanoes@ yahoogroups. com, Richard Berling <rberling@ .> wrote:

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > > >

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > > >

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > > > Craig: It sounds perfectly correct to me. The weave causes the

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > > > texture (something you want on the interior after only one coat of

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > > > epoxy). Sanding the exterior smooth to receive the varnish is

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > > > standard practice, only to be careful not to penetrate the weave.

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > > >

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > > > Usually I only put two layers of 6 oz cloth on the bottom only but

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > > > full coverage is OK but for the extra weight. One layer inside with a

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > > > six inch strip down the middle interior is adequate, the center line

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > > > being the weakest point in the canoe.

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > > >

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > > > I hope this helps. Post pictures, the accents sound great.

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > > >

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > > > Badgerberling

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > > >

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > > > On Jun 22, 2009, at 6:46 PM, shepard_c wrote:

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > > >

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > > > >

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > > > >

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > > > > hello. I'm new here.

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > > > >

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > > > > In 1992, I saw a 3 part article in Family Handyman on how to build

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > > > > an 18 foot cedar strip canoe. I decided I had to build one. So I

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > > > > bought all three issues and started. I built the strongback, and

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > > > > then, before I could start stripping, I had to move across country.

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > > > > I disassembled everything and packed it away and moved it with me.

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > > > > It's been sitting in the garage since. This spring, I finally got to

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > > > > clean up some of the garage and found the strongback parts and

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > > > > decided the time was now....

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > > > >

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > > > > Flash forward about 8 weeks.... I have stripped the canoe with

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > > > > recycled red cedar with walnut, aspen and cherry accents, and

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > > > > inserted a 4 point navigational star inlay in the bottom. I ordered

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > > > > 6 oz cloth and System Three epoxy, and have laid up 2 layers of

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > > > > cloth on the hull. I'm now trying to put the final coats of epoxy on

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > > > > and running into some issues with smoothness.

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > > > >

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > > > > I'm using foam rollers cut to 3 1/2 inches and laying on the epoxy

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > > > > as thin as I can to avoid runs. The last batch was 7 ounces of resin

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > > > > and 3 1/2 ounces of medium hardener. I rolled it on and then tipped

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > > > > it out with a foam brush. The result was very smooth. However, as it

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > > > > cured, the epoxy textured, similar to orange peel texture, and tiny

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > > > > pinholes.

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > > > >

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > > > > My prep prior to each coat of epoxy was to lightly sand previous

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > > > > coat with 120 grit RO sander, wipe off residue with damp sponge and

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > > > > dry with a cloth. I was concerned maybe I was not prepping correctly

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > > > > so I called the place where I bought the epoxy. He said this is

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > > > > normal, and I'll need to final sand the epoxy to smoothness, prior

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > > > > to varnishing.

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > > > >

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > > > > Does this sound right? Or is it possible to get a nice smooth finish

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > > > > on expoxy with minimal sanding at the end?

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > > > >

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > > > > Thanks for your suggestions.

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > > > >

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            > > > > craig

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                            > > > >

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                            > > > >

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                            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • shepard_c
                            I m using System Three General Purpose resin. I got a response back. They seemed to be somewhat annoyed by my question. They more or less insinuated that I
                            Message 13 of 29 , Jun 29, 2009
                            • 0 Attachment
                              I'm using System Three General Purpose resin.

                              I got a response back. They seemed to be somewhat annoyed by my question. They more or less insinuated that I didn't know what I was doing. Well, duh! That's why I sent the question!

                              Anyway, they indicate the problem is because I was putting it on too thin. They said to put on enough to fill the weave and then a little more to get some thickness and then block sand it to take out the bumps. Although, they didn't offer any advice on how to keep it from running down the side! Well, that's pretty much how I did it in the first place and the texture was like treadplate, not bumpy.
                              Today I finished sanding and then reapplied epoxy to the 8-10 spots where I exposed the weave. I tried to keep it thicker. Sure enough, I have runs. I'll get it, but it's been very frustrating. I'm pretty sure

                              They pointed out that people have been using General Purpose epoxy to build canoes and wooden boats for 30 years. I'm pretty sure I won't be using it on the next one.



                              --- In cedarstripcanoes@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Spezio <bambotony@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Keep us posted, I have only done the one canoe with Clear Coat and as I said, I was real pleased. I am wondering if the fiberglass cloth might of had something in it that contaminated the resin. Are you using Clear Coat Resin or one of the other System 3 Resins. They have several different types.
                              > Arkansas Tony.
                              >
                              > --- On Mon, 6/29/09, shepard_c <egroups@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > From: shepard_c <egroups@...>
                              > Subject: Re: [Cedar Strip Canoes] Introduction and question regarding epoxy
                              > To: cedarstripcanoes@yahoogroups.com
                              > Date: Monday, June 29, 2009, 8:22 AM
                              >
                              >
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                              > I sent a message off to System Three to see what they might have to say about the texture problem.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > I've almost got it sanded smooth. I'm using 320 grit, followed by wet sanding with 400 grit. I've exposed the weave again in about 8 places, so will spot coat those and sand them individually to complete.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Hoping to get the outside done today and turn the canoe tomorrow or the next day. Getting real tired of sanding.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > -- In cedarstripcanoes@ yahoogroups. com, Anthony Spezio <bambotony@ ..> wrote:
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > I am very pleased with the Clear Coat. No strong smell, long working time and have seven days to apply more Epoxy without having to sand. This don't mean it is the best Epoxy to use but for me, it was the best so far. As you can see the finished Cypress Canoe in the photos, it is totally clear.
                              >
                              > > Arkansas Tony
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > --- On Sat, 6/27/09, shepard_c <egroups@ > wrote:
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > From: shepard_c <egroups@ >
                              >
                              > > Subject: Re: [Cedar Strip Canoes] Introduction and question regarding epoxy
                              >
                              > > To: cedarstripcanoes@ yahoogroups. com
                              >
                              > > Date: Saturday, June 27, 2009, 9:16 PM
                              >
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                              > > Hmm. I'm using System Three General Purpose epoxy. I wonder if I should be using the Clear Coat, instead. It says it is low viscosity. Also says, "Use Clear Coat as the sole epoxy system to make wood strip canoes and kayaks."
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > --- In cedarstripcanoes@ yahoogroups. com, bambotony@ . wrote:
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > > I am a bit late on this.
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > > We used System 3 Clear Coat on the last canoe and I was more than delighted with the finish. The canoe was fiber glassed in late September. The first coat was applied in the evening before it started to cool down, the temps would be falling. The canoe was built and fiber glassed under a open shelter about 50' from the river. It would get foggy at night and early morning. This did not seem to affect the finish. The first evening, the first coat was applied to the sanded Cypress.  The next evening the second coat was applied over the first coat and the fiber glass laid over it. Then a wetting out coat was applied and smooth up with a dry foam brush.. The following evening a bottom  fiberglass football was laid out over the first layer and Epoxy applied. Six oz. cloth was used.
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > > One more coat of Epoxy was applied on the whole canoe the following evening. Each time the Epoxy was smooth up with a foam brush. No sanding in between. The info says that a coat of Clear Coat Epoxy can be applied
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > > within seven days without sanding. The final coat of Epoxy was sanded before applying the Urethane varnish several weeks later. The same was done on the inside The finish is almost as smooth as glass with no weave showing The only problem is that the inside is so smooth that you really have to watch stepping in the canoe with wet feet. The canoe I am building now, I will leave some weave showing on the inside or put deck boards in the bottom. You can see the finished Cypress canoe in the Photo Section in the 16' Cypress Canoe Files.The canoe I am building now is under Bambotony Canoe file. It is Ceder and Redwood. Will be adding more photos later. It is about 9 strips from closing up the bottom. This will be my fifth canoe, three of those were done with Poly Resin, I will stay with the Clear Coat
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > > Arkansas Tony
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > > --- On Tue, 6/23/09, shepard_c <egroups@ > wrote:
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > > From: shepard_c <egroups@ >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > > Subject: Re: [Cedar Strip Canoes] Introduction and question regarding epoxy
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > > To: cedarstripcanoes@ yahoogroups. com
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > > Date: Tuesday, June 23, 2009, 10:43 AM
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                              > > > This is different than the weave texture. I still a bit of that showing, but this is more of an orange peel texture. When I was in high school, my brother and I painted my 52 Chevy. The paint laid on beautifully. Prior to shooting the clear, my brother wiped down the truck with the prep solution using rags he had brought from home. We shot the clear and were horrified to see it all bead up like water on a freshly waxed car! Turned out, he had grabbed his wife's dust rags which had Pledge furniture polish with wax on them. So we waxed the truck before shooting the clear.
                              >
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                              > > > The texture of my epoxy is similar, though not as severe as that clear coat story. I'm using new wiping rags fresh out of the package to dry it, so no concern with contamination. It's just not laying as flat and smooth as I expected. This is a first for me, though, so maybe that's the way it's supposed to be.
                              >
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                              > > > I'm sanding today and trying to smooth the entire surface. Getting rid of all the texture is getting me into the weave in spots, so I'll apply one more coat of epoxy and see how that goes, and then smooth sand to 220 for varnish.
                              >
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                              > > > I put up some photos of the canoe when I had it wet for final sanding. I don't have any photos of the glass and epoxy. The album is "Gumpy's 18 Footer".
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                              > > > craig
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                              >
                              > > > --- In cedarstripcanoes@ yahoogroups. com, Richard Berling <rberling@ .> wrote:
                              >
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                              > > > > Craig: It sounds perfectly correct to me. The weave causes the
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > > > texture (something you want on the interior after only one coat of
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > > > epoxy). Sanding the exterior smooth to receive the varnish is
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > > > standard practice, only to be careful not to penetrate the weave.
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                              >
                              > > > > Usually I only put two layers of 6 oz cloth on the bottom only but
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > > > full coverage is OK but for the extra weight. One layer inside with a
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > > > six inch strip down the middle interior is adequate, the center line
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > > > being the weakest point in the canoe.
                              >
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                              > > > > I hope this helps. Post pictures, the accents sound great.
                              >
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                              > > > > Badgerberling
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                              > > > >
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                              > >
                              >
                              > > > > On Jun 22, 2009, at 6:46 PM, shepard_c wrote:
                              >
                              > >
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                              >
                              > > > > > hello. I'm new here.
                              >
                              > >
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                              > >
                              >
                              > > > > >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > > > > In 1992, I saw a 3 part article in Family Handyman on how to build
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > > > > an 18 foot cedar strip canoe. I decided I had to build one. So I
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > > > > bought all three issues and started. I built the strongback, and
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > > > > then, before I could start stripping, I had to move across country.
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > > > > I disassembled everything and packed it away and moved it with me.
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > > > > It's been sitting in the garage since. This spring, I finally got to
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > > > > clean up some of the garage and found the strongback parts and
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > > > > decided the time was now....
                              >
                              > >
                              >
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                              >
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                              >
                              > > > > >
                              >
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                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > > > > Flash forward about 8 weeks.... I have stripped the canoe with
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > > > > recycled red cedar with walnut, aspen and cherry accents, and
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > > > > inserted a 4 point navigational star inlay in the bottom. I ordered
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > > > > 6 oz cloth and System Three epoxy, and have laid up 2 layers of
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > > > > cloth on the hull. I'm now trying to put the final coats of epoxy on
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > > > > and running into some issues with smoothness.
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > > > >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > > > > I'm using foam rollers cut to 3 1/2 inches and laying on the epoxy
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > > > > as thin as I can to avoid runs. The last batch was 7 ounces of resin
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > > > > and 3 1/2 ounces of medium hardener. I rolled it on and then tipped
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > > > > it out with a foam brush. The result was very smooth. However, as it
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > > > > cured, the epoxy textured, similar to orange peel texture, and tiny
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > > > > pinholes.
                              >
                              > >
                              >
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                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > > > >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > > > > My prep prior to each coat of epoxy was to lightly sand previous
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > > > > coat with 120 grit RO sander, wipe off residue with damp sponge and
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > > > > dry with a cloth. I was concerned maybe I was not prepping correctly
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                              > > > > > so I called the place where I bought the epoxy. He said this is
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                              > > > > > normal, and I'll need to final sand the epoxy to smoothness, prior
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                              > > > > > to varnishing.
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                              > > > > > Does this sound right? Or is it possible to get a nice smooth finish
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                              > > > > > on expoxy with minimal sanding at the end?
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                              > > > > > Thanks for your suggestions.
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                              > > > > > craig
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                            • deadphysh@comcast.net
                              LOL Thats what i love, vote with ur economic feet , if u cant get satisfaction there is always some one else that can help u. I would also suggest u write them
                              Message 14 of 29 , Jun 30, 2009
                              • 0 Attachment
                                LOL Thats what i love, vote with ur economic feet , if u cant get satisfaction there is always some one else that can help u.
                                I would also suggest u write them and tell them about your experience and how u have told all ur friends about what crappy service u got.
                                Sorry for being off target znd getting on my soap box
                                don k
                                -----Original Message-----
                                Date: Monday, June 29, 2009 7:06:59 pm
                                To: cedarstripcanoes@yahoogroups.com
                                From: shepard_c <egroups@...>
                                Subject: Re: [Cedar Strip Canoes] Introduction and question regarding epoxy

                                I'm using System Three General Purpose resin.

                                I got a response back. They seemed to be somewhat annoyed by my question. They more or less insinuated that I didn't know what I was doing. Well, duh! That's why I sent the question!

                                Anyway, they indicate the problem is because I was putting it on too thin. They said to put on enough to fill the weave and then a little more to get some thickness and then block sand it to take out the bumps. Although, they didn't offer any advice on how to keep it from running down the side! Well, that's pretty much how I did it in the first place and the texture was like treadplate, not bumpy.
                                Today I finished sanding and then reapplied epoxy to the 8-10 spots where I exposed the weave. I tried to keep it thicker. Sure enough, I have runs. I'll get it, but it's been very frustrating. I'm pretty sure

                                They pointed out that people have been using General Purpose epoxy to build canoes and wooden boats for 30 years. I'm pretty sure I won't be using it on the next one.
                              • Anthony Spezio
                                I just find this hard to believe. The lady Jim and I have talked to (I forget her name) was always real helpful and gave us both a lot of information. Because
                                Message 15 of 29 , Jun 30, 2009
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  I just find this hard to believe. The lady Jim and I have talked to (I forget her name) was always real helpful and gave us both a lot of information. Because of this we went with the System 3. Though we are not using the same type of Epoxy,( I am using Clear Coat), They should give you the info you need using their product. I will be calling them in a couple of weeks to order some of the additive to make the Clear Coat into an Epoxy Glue. If you would like, I can mention this incident to who answers the phone.
                                  Putting Epoxy on too thin, is a new one on me.It might be so, but I have not heard of it.
                                  Arkansas Tony

                                  --- On Mon, 6/29/09, shepard_c <egroups@...> wrote:

                                  From: shepard_c <egroups@...>
                                  Subject: Re: [Cedar Strip Canoes] Introduction and question regarding epoxy
                                  To: cedarstripcanoes@yahoogroups.com
                                  Date: Monday, June 29, 2009, 9:06 PM

















                                  I'm using System Three General Purpose resin.



                                  I got a response back. They seemed to be somewhat annoyed by my question. They more or less insinuated that I didn't know what I was doing. Well, duh! That's why I sent the question!



                                  Anyway, they indicate the problem is because I was putting it on too thin. They said to put on enough to fill the weave and then a little more to get some thickness and then block sand it to take out the bumps. Although, they didn't offer any advice on how to keep it from running down the side! Well, that's pretty much how I did it in the first place and the texture was like treadplate, not bumpy.

                                  Today I finished sanding and then reapplied epoxy to the 8-10 spots where I exposed the weave. I tried to keep it thicker. Sure enough, I have runs. I'll get it, but it's been very frustrating. I'm pretty sure



                                  They pointed out that people have been using General Purpose epoxy to build canoes and wooden boats for 30 years. I'm pretty sure I won't be using it on the next one.



                                  --- In cedarstripcanoes@ yahoogroups. com, Anthony Spezio <bambotony@. ..> wrote:

                                  >

                                  > Keep us posted, I have only done the one canoe with Clear Coat and as I said, I was real pleased. I am wondering if the fiberglass cloth might of had something in it that contaminated the resin. Are you using Clear Coat Resin or one of the other System 3 Resins. They have several different types.

                                  > Arkansas Tony.

                                  >

                                  > --- On Mon, 6/29/09, shepard_c <egroups@... > wrote:

                                  >

                                  > From: shepard_c <egroups@... >

                                  > Subject: Re: [Cedar Strip Canoes] Introduction and question regarding epoxy

                                  > To: cedarstripcanoes@ yahoogroups. com

                                  > Date: Monday, June 29, 2009, 8:22 AM

                                  >

                                  >

                                  >

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                                  >

                                  > I sent a message off to System Three to see what they might have to say about the texture problem.

                                  >

                                  >

                                  >

                                  > I've almost got it sanded smooth. I'm using 320 grit, followed by wet sanding with 400 grit. I've exposed the weave again in about 8 places, so will spot coat those and sand them individually to complete.

                                  >

                                  >

                                  >

                                  > Hoping to get the outside done today and turn the canoe tomorrow or the next day. Getting real tired of sanding.

                                  >

                                  >

                                  >

                                  > -- In cedarstripcanoes@ yahoogroups. com, Anthony Spezio <bambotony@ ..> wrote:

                                  >

                                  > >

                                  >

                                  > > I am very pleased with the Clear Coat. No strong smell, long working time and have seven days to apply more Epoxy without having to sand. This don't mean it is the best Epoxy to use but for me, it was the best so far. As you can see the finished Cypress Canoe in the photos, it is totally clear.

                                  >

                                  > > Arkansas Tony

                                  >

                                  > >

                                  >

                                  > > --- On Sat, 6/27/09, shepard_c <egroups@ > wrote:

                                  >

                                  > >

                                  >

                                  > > From: shepard_c <egroups@ >

                                  >

                                  > > Subject: Re: [Cedar Strip Canoes] Introduction and question regarding epoxy

                                  >

                                  > > To: cedarstripcanoes@ yahoogroups. com

                                  >

                                  > > Date: Saturday, June 27, 2009, 9:16 PM

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                                  > > Hmm. I'm using System Three General Purpose epoxy. I wonder if I should be using the Clear Coat, instead. It says it is low viscosity. Also says, "Use Clear Coat as the sole epoxy system to make wood strip canoes and kayaks."

                                  >

                                  > >

                                  >

                                  > >

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                                  > >

                                  >

                                  > > --- In cedarstripcanoes@ yahoogroups. com, bambotony@ . wrote:

                                  >

                                  > >

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                                  > > >

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                                  > >

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                                  > > > I am a bit late on this.

                                  >

                                  > >

                                  >

                                  > > > We used System 3 Clear Coat on the last canoe and I was more than delighted with the finish. The canoe was fiber glassed in late September. The first coat was applied in the evening before it started to cool down, the temps would be falling. The canoe was built and fiber glassed under a open shelter about 50' from the river. It would get foggy at night and early morning. This did not seem to affect the finish. The first evening, the first coat was applied to the sanded Cypress.  The next evening the second coat was applied over the first coat and the fiber glass laid over it. Then a wetting out coat was applied and smooth up with a dry foam brush.. The following evening a bottom  fiberglass football was laid out over the first layer and Epoxy applied. Six oz. cloth was used.

                                  >

                                  > >

                                  >

                                  > > > One more coat of Epoxy was applied on the whole canoe the following evening. Each time the Epoxy was smooth up with a foam brush. No sanding in between. The info says that a coat of Clear Coat Epoxy can be applied

                                  >

                                  > >

                                  >

                                  > > > within seven days without sanding. The final coat of Epoxy was sanded before applying the Urethane varnish several weeks later. The same was done on the inside The finish is almost as smooth as glass with no weave showing The only problem is that the inside is so smooth that you really have to watch stepping in the canoe with wet feet. The canoe I am building now, I will leave some weave showing on the inside or put deck boards in the bottom. You can see the finished Cypress canoe in the Photo Section in the 16' Cypress Canoe Files.The canoe I am building now is under Bambotony Canoe file. It is Ceder and Redwood. Will be adding more photos later. It is about 9 strips from closing up the bottom. This will be my fifth canoe, three of those were done with Poly Resin, I will stay with the Clear Coat

                                  >

                                  > >

                                  >

                                  > > > Arkansas Tony

                                  >

                                  > >

                                  >

                                  > > >

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                                  > >

                                  >

                                  > > > --- On Tue, 6/23/09, shepard_c <egroups@ > wrote:

                                  >

                                  > >

                                  >

                                  > > >

                                  >

                                  > >

                                  >

                                  > > > From: shepard_c <egroups@ >

                                  >

                                  > >

                                  >

                                  > > > Subject: Re: [Cedar Strip Canoes] Introduction and question regarding epoxy

                                  >

                                  > >

                                  >

                                  > > > To: cedarstripcanoes@ yahoogroups. com

                                  >

                                  > >

                                  >

                                  > > > Date: Tuesday, June 23, 2009, 10:43 AM

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                                  > > > This is different than the weave texture. I still a bit of that showing, but this is more of an orange peel texture. When I was in high school, my brother and I painted my 52 Chevy. The paint laid on beautifully. Prior to shooting the clear, my brother wiped down the truck with the prep solution using rags he had brought from home. We shot the clear and were horrified to see it all bead up like water on a freshly waxed car! Turned out, he had grabbed his wife's dust rags which had Pledge furniture polish with wax on them. So we waxed the truck before shooting the clear.

                                  >

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                                  > > > The texture of my epoxy is similar, though not as severe as that clear coat story. I'm using new wiping rags fresh out of the package to dry it, so no concern with contamination. It's just not laying as flat and smooth as I expected. This is a first for me, though, so maybe that's the way it's supposed to be.

                                  >

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                                  > > > I'm sanding today and trying to smooth the entire surface. Getting rid of all the texture is getting me into the weave in spots, so I'll apply one more coat of epoxy and see how that goes, and then smooth sand to 220 for varnish.

                                  >

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                                  > > > I put up some photos of the canoe when I had it wet for final sanding. I don't have any photos of the glass and epoxy. The album is "Gumpy's 18 Footer".

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                                  > > > craig

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                                  >

                                  > > > --- In cedarstripcanoes@ yahoogroups. com, Richard Berling <rberling@ .> wrote:

                                  >

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                                  > > > > Craig: It sounds perfectly correct to me. The weave causes the

                                  >

                                  > >

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                                  > > >

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                                  > >

                                  >

                                  > > > > texture (something you want on the interior after only one coat of

                                  >

                                  > >

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                                  > > >

                                  >

                                  > >

                                  >

                                  > > > > epoxy). Sanding the exterior smooth to receive the varnish is

                                  >

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                                  >

                                  > > > > standard practice, only to be careful not to penetrate the weave.

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                                  > > > > Usually I only put two layers of 6 oz cloth on the bottom only but

                                  >

                                  > >

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                                  > > > > full coverage is OK but for the extra weight. One layer inside with a

                                  >

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                                  > > >

                                  >

                                  > >

                                  >

                                  > > > > six inch strip down the middle interior is adequate, the center line

                                  >

                                  > >

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                                  > > >

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                                  > >

                                  >

                                  > > > > being the weakest point in the canoe.

                                  >

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                                  > > > > I hope this helps. Post pictures, the accents sound great.

                                  >

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                                  > > > > Badgerberling

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                                  >

                                  > > > > On Jun 22, 2009, at 6:46 PM, shepard_c wrote:

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                                  > > > > > hello. I'm new here.

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                                  > > > > > In 1992, I saw a 3 part article in Family Handyman on how to build

                                  >

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                                  > > > > > an 18 foot cedar strip canoe. I decided I had to build one. So I

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                                  > > > > > bought all three issues and started. I built the strongback, and

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                                  > > > > > then, before I could start stripping, I had to move across country.

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                                  > > > > > I disassembled everything and packed it away and moved it with me.

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                                  > > > > > It's been sitting in the garage since. This spring, I finally got to

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                                  > > > > > clean up some of the garage and found the strongback parts and

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                                  > > > > > decided the time was now....

                                  >

                                  > >

                                  >

                                  > > >

                                  >

                                  > >

                                  >

                                  > > > > >

                                  >

                                  > >

                                  >

                                  > > >

                                  >

                                  > >

                                  >

                                  > > > > > Flash forward about 8 weeks.... I have stripped the canoe with

                                  >

                                  > >

                                  >

                                  > > >

                                  >

                                  > >

                                  >

                                  > > > > > recycled red cedar with walnut, aspen and cherry accents, and

                                  >

                                  > >

                                  >

                                  > > >

                                  >

                                  > >

                                  >

                                  > > > > > inserted a 4 point navigational star inlay in the bottom. I ordered

                                  >

                                  > >

                                  >

                                  > > >

                                  >

                                  > >

                                  >

                                  > > > > > 6 oz cloth and System Three epoxy, and have laid up 2 layers of

                                  >

                                  > >

                                  >

                                  > > >

                                  >

                                  > >

                                  >

                                  > > > > > cloth on the hull. I'm now trying to put the final coats of epoxy on

                                  >

                                  > >

                                  >

                                  > > >

                                  >

                                  > >

                                  >

                                  > > > > > and running into some issues with smoothness.

                                  >

                                  > >

                                  >

                                  > > >

                                  >

                                  > >

                                  >

                                  > > > > >

                                  >

                                  > >

                                  >

                                  > > >

                                  >

                                  > >

                                  >

                                  > > > > > I'm using foam rollers cut to 3 1/2 inches and laying on the epoxy

                                  >

                                  > >

                                  >

                                  > > >

                                  >

                                  > >

                                  >

                                  > > > > > as thin as I can to avoid runs. The last batch was 7 ounces of resin

                                  >

                                  > >

                                  >

                                  > > >

                                  >

                                  > >

                                  >

                                  > > > > > and 3 1/2 ounces of medium hardener. I rolled it on and then tipped

                                  >

                                  > >

                                  >

                                  > > >

                                  >

                                  > >

                                  >

                                  > > > > > it out with a foam brush. The result was very smooth. However, as it

                                  >

                                  > >

                                  >

                                  > > >

                                  >

                                  > >

                                  >

                                  > > > > > cured, the epoxy textured, similar to orange peel texture, and tiny

                                  >

                                  > >

                                  >

                                  > > >

                                  >

                                  > >

                                  >

                                  > > > > > pinholes.

                                  >

                                  > >

                                  >

                                  > > >

                                  >

                                  > >

                                  >

                                  > > > > >

                                  >

                                  > >

                                  >

                                  > > >

                                  >

                                  > >

                                  >

                                  > > > > > My prep prior to each coat of epoxy was to lightly sand previous

                                  >

                                  > >

                                  >

                                  > > >

                                  >

                                  > >

                                  >

                                  > > > > > coat with 120 grit RO sander, wipe off residue with damp sponge and

                                  >

                                  > >

                                  >

                                  > > >

                                  >

                                  > >

                                  >

                                  > > > > > dry with a cloth. I was concerned maybe I was not prepping correctly

                                  >

                                  > >

                                  >

                                  > > >

                                  >

                                  > >

                                  >

                                  > > > > > so I called the place where I bought the epoxy. He said this is

                                  >

                                  > >

                                  >

                                  > > >

                                  >

                                  > >

                                  >

                                  > > > > > normal, and I'll need to final sand the epoxy to smoothness, prior

                                  >

                                  > >

                                  >

                                  > > >

                                  >

                                  > >

                                  >

                                  > > > > > to varnishing.

                                  >

                                  > >

                                  >

                                  > > >

                                  >

                                  > >

                                  >

                                  > > > > >

                                  >

                                  > >

                                  >

                                  > > >

                                  >

                                  > >

                                  >

                                  > > > > > Does this sound right? Or is it possible to get a nice smooth finish

                                  >

                                  > >

                                  >

                                  > > >

                                  >

                                  > >

                                  >

                                  > > > > > on expoxy with minimal sanding at the end?

                                  >

                                  > >

                                  >

                                  > > >

                                  >

                                  > >

                                  >

                                  > > > > >

                                  >

                                  > >

                                  >

                                  > > >

                                  >

                                  > >

                                  >

                                  > > > > > Thanks for your suggestions.

                                  >

                                  > >

                                  >

                                  > > >

                                  >

                                  > >

                                  >

                                  > > > > >

                                  >

                                  > >

                                  >

                                  > > >

                                  >

                                  > >

                                  >

                                  > > > > > craig

                                  >

                                  > >

                                  >

                                  > > >

                                  >

                                  > >

                                  >

                                  > > > > >

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                                  > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Tim Greiner
                                  The too thin response isn t legitimate to me. I used marine grade stuff from a regional maker (Tap) and it was low-viscosity so it took me several layers to
                                  Message 16 of 29 , Jun 30, 2009
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    The "too thin" response isn't legitimate to me. I used marine grade stuff from a regional maker (Tap) and it was low-viscosity so it took me several layers to completely fill the weave. But I never had it texture or turn porous, it flows out like thick paint. Perhaps you could send back a small portion of the epoxy and cloth and the tech boys would tell you the real reason, sounds like you got the wrong customer rep.
                                    I have contemplated building a motorized rotisserie in order to prevent runs and be able to add a thick coat, but that is a big job. Going to a higher viscosity hardener is probably a better strategy for the weave-filling. The low-vis stuff is certainly better for soaking the cloth, though.

                                    Tim Greiner

                                    --- shepard_c wrote:
                                    >
                                    > I'm using System Three General Purpose resin.
                                    >
                                    > I got a response back. They seemed to be somewhat annoyed by my question. They more or less insinuated that I didn't know what I was doing. Well, duh! That's why I sent the question!
                                    >
                                    > Anyway, they indicate the problem is because I was putting it on too thin. They said to put on enough to fill the weave and then a little more to get some thickness and then block sand it to take out the bumps. Although, they didn't offer any advice on how to keep it from running down the side! Well, that's pretty much how I did it in the first place and the texture was like treadplate, not bumpy.
                                    > Today I finished sanding and then reapplied epoxy to the 8-10 spots where I exposed the weave. I tried to keep it thicker. Sure enough, I have runs. I'll get it, but it's been very frustrating. I'm pretty sure
                                    >
                                    > They pointed out that people have been using General Purpose epoxy to build canoes and wooden boats for 30 years. I'm pretty sure I won't be using it on the next one.
                                    >
                                    >> > >
                                    > >
                                    > > > > > > hello. I'm new here.
                                    > > > > > > In 1992, I saw a 3 part article in Family Handyman on how to build
                                    > > > > > > an 18 foot cedar strip canoe. I decided I had to build one. So I
                                    > > > > > > bought all three issues and started. I built the strongback, and
                                    > > > > > > then, before I could start stripping, I had to move across country.
                                    > > > > > > I disassembled everything and packed it away and moved it with me.
                                    > > > > > > It's been sitting in the garage since. This spring, I finally got to
                                    > > > > clean up some of the garage and found the strongback parts and
                                    > > > > > > decided the time was now....
                                    > > > > > > Flash forward about 8 weeks.... I have stripped the canoe with
                                    > > > > > > recycled red cedar with walnut, aspen and cherry accents, and
                                    > > > > > > inserted a 4 point navigational star inlay in the bottom. I ordered
                                    > > > > > > 6 oz cloth and System Three epoxy, and have laid up 2 layers of
                                    > > > > > > cloth on the hull. I'm now trying to put the final coats of epoxy on
                                    > > > > > > and running into some issues with smoothness.
                                    > > > > > > I'm using foam rollers cut to 3 1/2 inches and laying on the epoxy
                                    > > > > > > as thin as I can to avoid runs. The last batch was 7 ounces of resin
                                    > > > > > > and 3 1/2 ounces of medium hardener. I rolled it on and then tipped
                                    > > > > > > it out with a foam brush. The result was very smooth. However, as it
                                    > > > > > > cured, the epoxy textured, similar to orange peel texture, and tiny
                                    > > > > > > pinholes.
                                    > > > > > > My prep prior to each coat of epoxy was to lightly sand previous
                                    > > > > > > coat with 120 grit RO sander, wipe off residue with damp sponge and
                                    > > > > > > dry with a cloth. I was concerned maybe I was not prepping correctly
                                    > > > > > > so I called the place where I bought the epoxy. He said this is
                                    > > > > > > normal, and I'll need to final sand the epoxy to smoothness, prior
                                    > > > > > > to varnishing.
                                    > > > > > > Does this sound right? Or is it possible to get a nice smooth finish
                                    > > > > > > on expoxy with minimal sanding at the end?
                                    > > > > > > Thanks for your suggestions.

                                    > > > > > > craig
                                  • David E. Birren
                                    This is about orange peel, right? That kind of texture shows up when painting such things as cars and is caused (in that setting) by applying a paint that
                                    Message 17 of 29 , Jun 30, 2009
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      This is about orange peel, right? That kind of texture shows up when
                                      painting such things as cars and is caused (in that setting) by applying a
                                      paint that dries too fast. It shrinks as it dries, and the texture is
                                      actually puckering of the surface. I believe it's caused by having too much
                                      pigment and not enouigh carrier. Whether this is the cause in using epoxy
                                      is a good question.

                                      Dave Birren

                                      -----Original Message-----
                                      From: cedarstripcanoes@yahoogroups.com
                                      [mailto:cedarstripcanoes@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Tim Greiner
                                      Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 1:42 PM
                                      To: cedarstripcanoes@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: Re: [Cedar Strip Canoes] Introduction and question regarding
                                      epoxy





                                      The "too thin" response isn't legitimate to me. I used marine grade stuff
                                      from a regional maker (Tap) and it was low-viscosity so it took me several
                                      layers to completely fill the weave. But I never had it texture or turn
                                      porous, it flows out like thick paint. Perhaps you could send back a small
                                      portion of the epoxy and cloth and the tech boys would tell you the real
                                      reason, sounds like you got the wrong customer rep.
                                      I have contemplated building a motorized rotisserie in order to prevent
                                      runs and be able to add a thick coat, but that is a big job. Going to a
                                      higher viscosity hardener is probably a better strategy for the
                                      weave-filling. The low-vis stuff is certainly better for soaking the cloth,
                                      though.

                                      Tim Greiner

                                      --- shepard_c wrote:
                                      >
                                      > I'm using System Three General Purpose resin.
                                      >
                                      > I got a response back. They seemed to be somewhat annoyed by my
                                      question. They more or less insinuated that I didn't know what I was doing.
                                      Well, duh! That's why I sent the question!
                                      >
                                      > Anyway, they indicate the problem is because I was putting it on too
                                      thin. They said to put on enough to fill the weave and then a little more to
                                      get some thickness and then block sand it to take out the bumps. Although,
                                      they didn't offer any advice on how to keep it from running down the side!
                                      Well, that's pretty much how I did it in the first place and the texture was
                                      like treadplate, not bumpy.
                                      > Today I finished sanding and then reapplied epoxy to the 8-10 spots
                                      where I exposed the weave. I tried to keep it thicker. Sure enough, I have
                                      runs. I'll get it, but it's been very frustrating. I'm pretty sure
                                      >
                                      > They pointed out that people have been using General Purpose epoxy to
                                      build canoes and wooden boats for 30 years. I'm pretty sure I won't be using
                                      it on the next one.
                                      >
                                      >> > >
                                      > >
                                      > > > > > > hello. I'm new here.
                                      > > > > > > In 1992, I saw a 3 part article in Family Handyman on how to
                                      build
                                      > > > > > > an 18 foot cedar strip canoe. I decided I had to build one. So
                                      I
                                      > > > > > > bought all three issues and started. I built the strongback,
                                      and
                                      > > > > > > then, before I could start stripping, I had to move across
                                      country.
                                      > > > > > > I disassembled everything and packed it away and moved it with
                                      me.
                                      > > > > > > It's been sitting in the garage since. This spring, I finally
                                      got to
                                      > > > > clean up some of the garage and found the strongback parts and
                                      > > > > > > decided the time was now....
                                      > > > > > > Flash forward about 8 weeks.... I have stripped the canoe with
                                      > > > > > > recycled red cedar with walnut, aspen and cherry accents, and
                                      > > > > > > inserted a 4 point navigational star inlay in the bottom. I
                                      ordered
                                      > > > > > > 6 oz cloth and System Three epoxy, and have laid up 2 layers
                                      of
                                      > > > > > > cloth on the hull. I'm now trying to put the final coats of
                                      epoxy on
                                      > > > > > > and running into some issues with smoothness.
                                      > > > > > > I'm using foam rollers cut to 3 1/2 inches and laying on the
                                      epoxy
                                      > > > > > > as thin as I can to avoid runs. The last batch was 7 ounces of
                                      resin
                                      > > > > > > and 3 1/2 ounces of medium hardener. I rolled it on and then
                                      tipped
                                      > > > > > > it out with a foam brush. The result was very smooth. However,
                                      as it
                                      > > > > > > cured, the epoxy textured, similar to orange peel texture, and
                                      tiny
                                      > > > > > > pinholes.
                                      > > > > > > My prep prior to each coat of epoxy was to lightly sand
                                      previous
                                      > > > > > > coat with 120 grit RO sander, wipe off residue with damp
                                      sponge and
                                      > > > > > > dry with a cloth. I was concerned maybe I was not prepping
                                      correctly
                                      > > > > > > so I called the place where I bought the epoxy. He said this
                                      is
                                      > > > > > > normal, and I'll need to final sand the epoxy to smoothness,
                                      prior
                                      > > > > > > to varnishing.
                                      > > > > > > Does this sound right? Or is it possible to get a nice smooth
                                      finish
                                      > > > > > > on expoxy with minimal sanding at the end?
                                      > > > > > > Thanks for your suggestions.

                                      > > > > > > craig







                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Anthony Spezio
                                      In my Aircraft days, orange peel was caused by putting the wrong finish over a finish that was not compatible. Like I mentioned in an earlier post, might there
                                      Message 18 of 29 , Jun 30, 2009
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        In my Aircraft days, orange peel was caused by putting the wrong finish over a finish that was not compatible. Like I mentioned in an earlier post, might there been some type of contamination.
                                        Arkansas Tony

                                        --- On Tue, 6/30/09, David E. Birren <birren@...> wrote:

                                        From: David E. Birren <birren@...>
                                        Subject: RE: [Cedar Strip Canoes] Introduction and question regarding epoxy
                                        To: cedarstripcanoes@yahoogroups.com
                                        Date: Tuesday, June 30, 2009, 3:51 PM

















                                        This is about orange peel, right? That kind of texture shows up when

                                        painting such things as cars and is caused (in that setting) by applying a

                                        paint that dries too fast. It shrinks as it dries, and the texture is

                                        actually puckering of the surface. I believe it's caused by having too much

                                        pigment and not enouigh carrier. Whether this is the cause in using epoxy

                                        is a good question.



                                        Dave Birren



                                        -----Original Message-----

                                        From: cedarstripcanoes@ yahoogroups. com

                                        [mailto:cedarstripcanoes@ yahoogroups. com]On Behalf Of Tim Greiner

                                        Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 1:42 PM

                                        To: cedarstripcanoes@ yahoogroups. com

                                        Subject: Re: [Cedar Strip Canoes] Introduction and question regarding

                                        epoxy



                                        The "too thin" response isn't legitimate to me. I used marine grade stuff

                                        from a regional maker (Tap) and it was low-viscosity so it took me several

                                        layers to completely fill the weave. But I never had it texture or turn

                                        porous, it flows out like thick paint. Perhaps you could send back a small

                                        portion of the epoxy and cloth and the tech boys would tell you the real

                                        reason, sounds like you got the wrong customer rep.

                                        I have contemplated building a motorized rotisserie in order to prevent

                                        runs and be able to add a thick coat, but that is a big job. Going to a

                                        higher viscosity hardener is probably a better strategy for the

                                        weave-filling. The low-vis stuff is certainly better for soaking the cloth,

                                        though.



                                        Tim Greiner



                                        --- shepard_c wrote:

                                        >

                                        > I'm using System Three General Purpose resin.

                                        >

                                        > I got a response back. They seemed to be somewhat annoyed by my

                                        question. They more or less insinuated that I didn't know what I was doing.

                                        Well, duh! That's why I sent the question!

                                        >

                                        > Anyway, they indicate the problem is because I was putting it on too

                                        thin. They said to put on enough to fill the weave and then a little more to

                                        get some thickness and then block sand it to take out the bumps. Although,

                                        they didn't offer any advice on how to keep it from running down the side!

                                        Well, that's pretty much how I did it in the first place and the texture was

                                        like treadplate, not bumpy.

                                        > Today I finished sanding and then reapplied epoxy to the 8-10 spots

                                        where I exposed the weave. I tried to keep it thicker. Sure enough, I have

                                        runs. I'll get it, but it's been very frustrating. I'm pretty sure

                                        >

                                        > They pointed out that people have been using General Purpose epoxy to

                                        build canoes and wooden boats for 30 years. I'm pretty sure I won't be using

                                        it on the next one.

                                        >

                                        >> > >

                                        > >

                                        > > > > > > hello. I'm new here.

                                        > > > > > > In 1992, I saw a 3 part article in Family Handyman on how to

                                        build

                                        > > > > > > an 18 foot cedar strip canoe. I decided I had to build one. So

                                        I

                                        > > > > > > bought all three issues and started. I built the strongback,

                                        and

                                        > > > > > > then, before I could start stripping, I had to move across

                                        country.

                                        > > > > > > I disassembled everything and packed it away and moved it with

                                        me.

                                        > > > > > > It's been sitting in the garage since. This spring, I finally

                                        got to

                                        > > > > clean up some of the garage and found the strongback parts and

                                        > > > > > > decided the time was now....

                                        > > > > > > Flash forward about 8 weeks.... I have stripped the canoe with

                                        > > > > > > recycled red cedar with walnut, aspen and cherry accents, and

                                        > > > > > > inserted a 4 point navigational star inlay in the bottom. I

                                        ordered

                                        > > > > > > 6 oz cloth and System Three epoxy, and have laid up 2 layers

                                        of

                                        > > > > > > cloth on the hull. I'm now trying to put the final coats of

                                        epoxy on

                                        > > > > > > and running into some issues with smoothness.

                                        > > > > > > I'm using foam rollers cut to 3 1/2 inches and laying on the

                                        epoxy

                                        > > > > > > as thin as I can to avoid runs. The last batch was 7 ounces of

                                        resin

                                        > > > > > > and 3 1/2 ounces of medium hardener. I rolled it on and then

                                        tipped

                                        > > > > > > it out with a foam brush. The result was very smooth. However,

                                        as it

                                        > > > > > > cured, the epoxy textured, similar to orange peel texture, and

                                        tiny

                                        > > > > > > pinholes.

                                        > > > > > > My prep prior to each coat of epoxy was to lightly sand

                                        previous

                                        > > > > > > coat with 120 grit RO sander, wipe off residue with damp

                                        sponge and

                                        > > > > > > dry with a cloth. I was concerned maybe I was not prepping

                                        correctly

                                        > > > > > > so I called the place where I bought the epoxy. He said this

                                        is

                                        > > > > > > normal, and I'll need to final sand the epoxy to smoothness,

                                        prior

                                        > > > > > > to varnishing.

                                        > > > > > > Does this sound right? Or is it possible to get a nice smooth

                                        finish

                                        > > > > > > on expoxy with minimal sanding at the end?

                                        > > > > > > Thanks for your suggestions.



                                        > > > > > > craig



                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]































                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • shepard_c
                                        Well, I can t rule out contamination, but it would have been in the cloth when I received it. I highly doubt it, though. Also, after 5 or 6 coats, I completely
                                        Message 19 of 29 , Jul 1, 2009
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                                          Well, I can't rule out contamination, but it would have been in the cloth when I received it. I highly doubt it, though. Also, after 5 or 6 coats, I completely sanded the surface and applied the final coats. I would have thought any contamination would have been sanded out or wound be encapsulated in the underlying epoxy.

                                          I coated the final few spots where I'd sanded through to weave. I used a foam roller and tried to keep it thicker than before. As I suspected, I had runs. However, the surface was quite smooth, with the expected bump here and there. Still had to sand it to get the runs out and feather the edges into the surrounding area, but I was able to get it all sanded out to where it's acceptable.

                                          I've turned the canoe and moved on to the interior. I'll be applying only 2 or 3 coats to the glass on the inside and intend on leaving the glass texture for traction.

                                          I've also been working on my laminated paddles.

                                          Thanks for all who provided comments on this. It's been a bit disappointing, but for my first experience, I'm ok with where the finish is at this point. We'll see how it looks when I finally get it varnished and into the light.

                                          craig







                                          --- In cedarstripcanoes@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Spezio <bambotony@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > In my Aircraft days, orange peel was caused by putting the wrong finish over a finish that was not compatible. Like I mentioned in an earlier post, might there been some type of contamination.
                                          > Arkansas Tony
                                          >
                                          > --- On Tue, 6/30/09, David E. Birren <birren@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > From: David E. Birren <birren@...>
                                          > Subject: RE: [Cedar Strip Canoes] Introduction and question regarding epoxy
                                          > To: cedarstripcanoes@yahoogroups.com
                                          > Date: Tuesday, June 30, 2009, 3:51 PM
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > This is about orange peel, right? That kind of texture shows up when
                                          >
                                          > painting such things as cars and is caused (in that setting) by applying a
                                          >
                                          > paint that dries too fast. It shrinks as it dries, and the texture is
                                          >
                                          > actually puckering of the surface. I believe it's caused by having too much
                                          >
                                          > pigment and not enouigh carrier. Whether this is the cause in using epoxy
                                          >
                                          > is a good question.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Dave Birren
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > -----Original Message-----
                                          >
                                          > From: cedarstripcanoes@ yahoogroups. com
                                          >
                                          > [mailto:cedarstripcanoes@ yahoogroups. com]On Behalf Of Tim Greiner
                                          >
                                          > Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 1:42 PM
                                          >
                                          > To: cedarstripcanoes@ yahoogroups. com
                                          >
                                          > Subject: Re: [Cedar Strip Canoes] Introduction and question regarding
                                          >
                                          > epoxy
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > The "too thin" response isn't legitimate to me. I used marine grade stuff
                                          >
                                          > from a regional maker (Tap) and it was low-viscosity so it took me several
                                          >
                                          > layers to completely fill the weave. But I never had it texture or turn
                                          >
                                          > porous, it flows out like thick paint. Perhaps you could send back a small
                                          >
                                          > portion of the epoxy and cloth and the tech boys would tell you the real
                                          >
                                          > reason, sounds like you got the wrong customer rep.
                                          >
                                          > I have contemplated building a motorized rotisserie in order to prevent
                                          >
                                          > runs and be able to add a thick coat, but that is a big job. Going to a
                                          >
                                          > higher viscosity hardener is probably a better strategy for the
                                          >
                                          > weave-filling. The low-vis stuff is certainly better for soaking the cloth,
                                          >
                                          > though.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Tim Greiner
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > --- shepard_c wrote:
                                          >
                                          > >
                                          >
                                          > > I'm using System Three General Purpose resin.
                                          >
                                          > >
                                          >
                                          > > I got a response back. They seemed to be somewhat annoyed by my
                                          >
                                          > question. They more or less insinuated that I didn't know what I was doing.
                                          >
                                          > Well, duh! That's why I sent the question!
                                          >
                                          > >
                                          >
                                          > > Anyway, they indicate the problem is because I was putting it on too
                                          >
                                          > thin. They said to put on enough to fill the weave and then a little more to
                                          >
                                          > get some thickness and then block sand it to take out the bumps. Although,
                                          >
                                          > they didn't offer any advice on how to keep it from running down the side!
                                          >
                                          > Well, that's pretty much how I did it in the first place and the texture was
                                          >
                                          > like treadplate, not bumpy.
                                          >
                                          > > Today I finished sanding and then reapplied epoxy to the 8-10 spots
                                          >
                                          > where I exposed the weave. I tried to keep it thicker. Sure enough, I have
                                          >
                                          > runs. I'll get it, but it's been very frustrating. I'm pretty sure
                                          >
                                          > >
                                          >
                                          > > They pointed out that people have been using General Purpose epoxy to
                                          >
                                          > build canoes and wooden boats for 30 years. I'm pretty sure I won't be using
                                          >
                                          > it on the next one.
                                          >
                                          > >
                                          >
                                          > >> > >
                                          >
                                          > > >
                                          >
                                          > > > > > > > hello. I'm new here.
                                          >
                                          > > > > > > > In 1992, I saw a 3 part article in Family Handyman on how to
                                          >
                                          > build
                                          >
                                          > > > > > > > an 18 foot cedar strip canoe. I decided I had to build one. So
                                          >
                                          > I
                                          >
                                          > > > > > > > bought all three issues and started. I built the strongback,
                                          >
                                          > and
                                          >
                                          > > > > > > > then, before I could start stripping, I had to move across
                                          >
                                          > country.
                                          >
                                          > > > > > > > I disassembled everything and packed it away and moved it with
                                          >
                                          > me.
                                          >
                                          > > > > > > > It's been sitting in the garage since. This spring, I finally
                                          >
                                          > got to
                                          >
                                          > > > > > clean up some of the garage and found the strongback parts and
                                          >
                                          > > > > > > > decided the time was now....
                                          >
                                          > > > > > > > Flash forward about 8 weeks.... I have stripped the canoe with
                                          >
                                          > > > > > > > recycled red cedar with walnut, aspen and cherry accents, and
                                          >
                                          > > > > > > > inserted a 4 point navigational star inlay in the bottom. I
                                          >
                                          > ordered
                                          >
                                          > > > > > > > 6 oz cloth and System Three epoxy, and have laid up 2 layers
                                          >
                                          > of
                                          >
                                          > > > > > > > cloth on the hull. I'm now trying to put the final coats of
                                          >
                                          > epoxy on
                                          >
                                          > > > > > > > and running into some issues with smoothness.
                                          >
                                          > > > > > > > I'm using foam rollers cut to 3 1/2 inches and laying on the
                                          >
                                          > epoxy
                                          >
                                          > > > > > > > as thin as I can to avoid runs. The last batch was 7 ounces of
                                          >
                                          > resin
                                          >
                                          > > > > > > > and 3 1/2 ounces of medium hardener. I rolled it on and then
                                          >
                                          > tipped
                                          >
                                          > > > > > > > it out with a foam brush. The result was very smooth. However,
                                          >
                                          > as it
                                          >
                                          > > > > > > > cured, the epoxy textured, similar to orange peel texture, and
                                          >
                                          > tiny
                                          >
                                          > > > > > > > pinholes.
                                          >
                                          > > > > > > > My prep prior to each coat of epoxy was to lightly sand
                                          >
                                          > previous
                                          >
                                          > > > > > > > coat with 120 grit RO sander, wipe off residue with damp
                                          >
                                          > sponge and
                                          >
                                          > > > > > > > dry with a cloth. I was concerned maybe I was not prepping
                                          >
                                          > correctly
                                          >
                                          > > > > > > > so I called the place where I bought the epoxy. He said this
                                          >
                                          > is
                                          >
                                          > > > > > > > normal, and I'll need to final sand the epoxy to smoothness,
                                          >
                                          > prior
                                          >
                                          > > > > > > > to varnishing.
                                          >
                                          > > > > > > > Does this sound right? Or is it possible to get a nice smooth
                                          >
                                          > finish
                                          >
                                          > > > > > > > on expoxy with minimal sanding at the end?
                                          >
                                          > > > > > > > Thanks for your suggestions.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > > > > > > > craig
                                          >
                                          >
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                                        • Joe Tribulato
                                          For your final varnish consider using semi-gloss or satin. High gloss will emphasize any imperfections you may have missed. You will know after you have
                                          Message 20 of 29 , Jul 2, 2009
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                                            For your final varnish consider using semi-gloss or satin. High gloss will emphasize any imperfections you may have missed. You will know after you have applied two coats of gloss. Kindly report results.

                                            Joe T

                                            -
                                            > ...
                                            > Thanks for all who provided comments on this. It's been a bit disappointing, but for my first experience, I'm ok with where the finish is at this point. We'll see how it looks when I finally get it varnished and into the light.
                                            >
                                            > craig
                                            >
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