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Re: Lowering the seats

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  • gyipee
    Message 1 of 16 , Mar 31, 2009
      --- In cedarstripcanoes@yahoogroups.com, "longshot" <longshot49@...> wrote:
      >
      > --- In cedarstripcanoes@yahoogroups.com, "Tim Greiner" <casey51234@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Corky-
      > >
      > > The only rule of thumb I have heard of is to put them just high enough to get your foot under without twisting. This to allow kneeling without trapping your foot or twisting it for long periods. As for the necessity of kneeling in a boat that only sees lakes and slow rivers, I have my doubts- I think the rule came from river running where you go through rapids and need to kneel for control. You could mount the seats on some long threaded rod to fine tune.
      >
      >
      > Gee I have size 16 feet and if I wanted to get my feet under the seat it would have to be out of the canoe.
      >
      > ...........................Tom C
      > Hi That made me laugh......... Size 16 could you not just use your shoes as canoes .........
    • longshot
      ... I have been told that I have canoes for feet but I can assure you I can t walk on water.................Tom C
      Message 2 of 16 , Apr 1 11:03 AM
        --- In cedarstripcanoes@yahoogroups.com, "gyipee" <smart151@...> wrote:
        >
        > --- In cedarstripcanoes@yahoogroups.com, "longshot" <longshot49@> wrote:
        > >
        > > --- In cedarstripcanoes@yahoogroups.com, "Tim Greiner" <casey51234@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Corky-
        > > >
        > > > The only rule of thumb I have heard of is to put them just high enough to get your foot under without twisting. This to allow kneeling without trapping your foot or twisting it for long periods. As for the necessity of kneeling in a boat that only sees lakes and slow rivers, I have my doubts- I think the rule came from river running where you go through rapids and need to kneel for control. You could mount the seats on some long threaded rod to fine tune.
        > >
        > >
        > > Gee I have size 16 feet and if I wanted to get my feet under the seat it would have to be out of the canoe.
        > >
        > > ...........................Tom C
        > > Hi That made me laugh......... Size 16 could you not just use your shoes as canoes .........
        >


        I have been told that I have canoes for feet but I can assure you I can't walk on water.................Tom C
      • Anthony Spezio
        Got a laugh out of that one. Arkansas Tony ... From: longshot Subject: [Cedar Strip Canoes] Re: Lowering the seats To:
        Message 3 of 16 , Apr 1 2:26 PM
          Got a laugh out of that one.
          Arkansas Tony

          --- On Wed, 4/1/09, longshot <longshot49@...> wrote:

          From: longshot <longshot49@...>
          Subject: [Cedar Strip Canoes] Re: Lowering the seats
          To: cedarstripcanoes@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Wednesday, April 1, 2009, 1:03 PM












          --- In cedarstripcanoes@ yahoogroups. com, "gyipee" <smart151@.. .> wrote:

          >

          > --- In cedarstripcanoes@ yahoogroups. com, "longshot" <longshot49@ > wrote:

          > >

          > > --- In cedarstripcanoes@ yahoogroups. com, "Tim Greiner" <casey51234@ > wrote:

          > > >

          > > > Corky-

          > > >

          > > > The only rule of thumb I have heard of is to put them just high enough to get your foot under without twisting. This to allow kneeling without trapping your foot or twisting it for long periods. As for the necessity of kneeling in a boat that only sees lakes and slow rivers, I have my doubts- I think the rule came from river running where you go through rapids and need to kneel for control. You could mount the seats on some long threaded rod to fine tune.

          > >

          > >

          > > Gee I have size 16 feet and if I wanted to get my feet under the seat it would have to be out of the canoe.

          > >

          > > ............ ......... ......Tom C

          > > Hi That made me laugh....... .. Size 16 could you not just use your shoes as canoes .........

          >



          I have been told that I have canoes for feet but I can assure you I can't walk on water....... ......... .Tom C































          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Jim Fox
          Hi Tony, We wrote awhile back. I m building a Bayhawk Duet (redwood) What should I expect to pay for cloth and resin? Can you give me a couple good sources and
          Message 4 of 16 , Apr 1 2:30 PM
            Hi Tony,
            We wrote awhile back. I'm building a Bayhawk Duet (redwood) What should I expect to pay for cloth and resin? Can you give me a couple good sources and types?
            Thanks,
            Jim Fox

            --- On Wed, 4/1/09, Anthony Spezio <bambotony@...> wrote:


            From: Anthony Spezio <bambotony@...>
            Subject: Re: [Cedar Strip Canoes] Re: Lowering the seats
            To: cedarstripcanoes@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Wednesday, April 1, 2009, 5:26 PM






            Got a laugh out of that one.
            Arkansas Tony

            --- On Wed, 4/1/09, longshot <longshot49@yahoo. com> wrote:

            From: longshot <longshot49@yahoo. com>
            Subject: [Cedar Strip Canoes] Re: Lowering the seats
            To: cedarstripcanoes@ yahoogroups. com
            Date: Wednesday, April 1, 2009, 1:03 PM

            --- In cedarstripcanoes@ yahoogroups. com, "gyipee" <smart151@.. .> wrote:

            >

            > --- In cedarstripcanoes@ yahoogroups. com, "longshot" <longshot49@ > wrote:

            > >

            > > --- In cedarstripcanoes@ yahoogroups. com, "Tim Greiner" <casey51234@ > wrote:

            > > >

            > > > Corky-

            > > >

            > > > The only rule of thumb I have heard of is to put them just high enough to get your foot under without twisting. This to allow kneeling without trapping your foot or twisting it for long periods. As for the necessity of kneeling in a boat that only sees lakes and slow rivers, I have my doubts- I think the rule came from river running where you go through rapids and need to kneel for control. You could mount the seats on some long threaded rod to fine tune.

            > >

            > >

            > > Gee I have size 16 feet and if I wanted to get my feet under the seat it would have to be out of the canoe.

            > >

            > > ............ ......... ......Tom C

            > > Hi That made me laugh....... .. Size 16 could you not just use your shoes as canoes .........

            >

            I have been told that I have canoes for feet but I can assure you I can't walk on water....... ......... .Tom C











            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
















            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Anthony Spezio
            Jim, We bought enough Resin and Cloth for two 16 Redwood Canoes for about 800.00 including all shipping We did go with the more expensive Resin from System
            Message 5 of 16 , Apr 3 12:36 PM
              Jim,
              We bought enough Resin and Cloth for two 16' Redwood Canoes for about 800.00 including all shipping
              We did go with the more expensive Resin from System three but have no regrets. The Glass was bought from the canoe dealer up by Buffalo N.Y. but has a Canadian address.  I would have to find the Invoice to get the name. If you want that, I will look it up.
              If I can be of any help to you, feel free to ask.
              Tony


              --- On Wed, 4/1/09, Jim Fox <djamesfox@...> wrote:

              From: Jim Fox <djamesfox@...>
              Subject: Re: [Cedar Strip Canoes] Re: Lowering the seats
              To: cedarstripcanoes@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Wednesday, April 1, 2009, 4:30 PM












              Hi Tony,

              We wrote awhile back. I'm building a Bayhawk Duet (redwood) What should I expect to pay for cloth and resin? Can you give me a couple good sources and types?

              Thanks,

              Jim Fox



              --- On Wed, 4/1/09, Anthony Spezio <bambotony@yahoo. com> wrote:



              From: Anthony Spezio <bambotony@yahoo. com>

              Subject: Re: [Cedar Strip Canoes] Re: Lowering the seats

              To: cedarstripcanoes@ yahoogroups. com

              Date: Wednesday, April 1, 2009, 5:26 PM



              Got a laugh out of that one.

              Arkansas Tony



              --- On Wed, 4/1/09, longshot <longshot49@ yahoo. com> wrote:



              From: longshot <longshot49@ yahoo. com>

              Subject: [Cedar Strip Canoes] Re: Lowering the seats

              To: cedarstripcanoes@ yahoogroups. com

              Date: Wednesday, April 1, 2009, 1:03 PM



              --- In cedarstripcanoes@ yahoogroups. com, "gyipee" <smart151@.. .> wrote:



              >



              > --- In cedarstripcanoes@ yahoogroups. com, "longshot" <longshot49@ > wrote:



              > >



              > > --- In cedarstripcanoes@ yahoogroups. com, "Tim Greiner" <casey51234@ > wrote:



              > > >



              > > > Corky-



              > > >



              > > > The only rule of thumb I have heard of is to put them just high enough to get your foot under without twisting. This to allow kneeling without trapping your foot or twisting it for long periods. As for the necessity of kneeling in a boat that only sees lakes and slow rivers, I have my doubts- I think the rule came from river running where you go through rapids and need to kneel for control. You could mount the seats on some long threaded rod to fine tune.



              > >



              > >



              > > Gee I have size 16 feet and if I wanted to get my feet under the seat it would have to be out of the canoe.



              > >



              > > ............ ......... ......Tom C



              > > Hi That made me laugh....... .. Size 16 could you not just use your shoes as canoes .........



              >



              I have been told that I have canoes for feet but I can assure you I can't walk on water....... ......... .Tom C



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]































              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Jim Fox
              Thanks ... From: Anthony Spezio Subject: Re: [Cedar Strip Canoes] Re: Lowering the seats To: cedarstripcanoes@yahoogroups.com Date:
              Message 6 of 16 , Apr 3 12:44 PM
                Thanks
                --- On Fri, 4/3/09, Anthony Spezio <bambotony@...> wrote:


                From: Anthony Spezio <bambotony@...>
                Subject: Re: [Cedar Strip Canoes] Re: Lowering the seats
                To: cedarstripcanoes@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Friday, April 3, 2009, 3:36 PM






                Jim,
                We bought enough Resin and Cloth for two 16' Redwood Canoes for about 800.00 including all shipping
                We did go with the more expensive Resin from System three but have no regrets. The Glass was bought from the canoe dealer up by Buffalo N.Y. but has a Canadian address.  I would have to find the Invoice to get the name. If you want that, I will look it up.
                If I can be of any help to you, feel free to ask.
                Tony

                --- On Wed, 4/1/09, Jim Fox <djamesfox@yahoo. com> wrote:

                From: Jim Fox <djamesfox@yahoo. com>
                Subject: Re: [Cedar Strip Canoes] Re: Lowering the seats
                To: cedarstripcanoes@ yahoogroups. com
                Date: Wednesday, April 1, 2009, 4:30 PM

                Hi Tony,

                We wrote awhile back. I'm building a Bayhawk Duet (redwood) What should I expect to pay for cloth and resin? Can you give me a couple good sources and types?

                Thanks,

                Jim Fox

                --- On Wed, 4/1/09, Anthony Spezio <bambotony@yahoo. com> wrote:

                From: Anthony Spezio <bambotony@yahoo. com>

                Subject: Re: [Cedar Strip Canoes] Re: Lowering the seats

                To: cedarstripcanoes@ yahoogroups. com

                Date: Wednesday, April 1, 2009, 5:26 PM

                Got a laugh out of that one.

                Arkansas Tony

                --- On Wed, 4/1/09, longshot <longshot49@ yahoo. com> wrote:

                From: longshot <longshot49@ yahoo. com>

                Subject: [Cedar Strip Canoes] Re: Lowering the seats

                To: cedarstripcanoes@ yahoogroups. com

                Date: Wednesday, April 1, 2009, 1:03 PM

                --- In cedarstripcanoes@ yahoogroups. com, "gyipee" <smart151@.. .> wrote:

                >

                > --- In cedarstripcanoes@ yahoogroups. com, "longshot" <longshot49@ > wrote:

                > >

                > > --- In cedarstripcanoes@ yahoogroups. com, "Tim Greiner" <casey51234@ > wrote:

                > > >

                > > > Corky-

                > > >

                > > > The only rule of thumb I have heard of is to put them just high enough to get your foot under without twisting. This to allow kneeling without trapping your foot or twisting it for long periods. As for the necessity of kneeling in a boat that only sees lakes and slow rivers, I have my doubts- I think the rule came from river running where you go through rapids and need to kneel for control. You could mount the seats on some long threaded rod to fine tune.

                > >

                > >

                > > Gee I have size 16 feet and if I wanted to get my feet under the seat it would have to be out of the canoe.

                > >

                > > ............ ......... ......Tom C

                > > Hi That made me laugh....... .. Size 16 could you not just use your shoes as canoes .........

                >

                I have been told that I have canoes for feet but I can assure you I can't walk on water....... ......... .Tom C

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]











                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
















                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Anthony Spezio
                Jim, It was not Buffalo but Niagara Falls N.Y. I checked the label on the Fiberglass shipping box. Tony ... From: Jim Fox Subject: Re:
                Message 7 of 16 , Apr 4 4:55 AM
                  Jim,
                  It was not Buffalo but Niagara Falls N.Y. I checked the label on the Fiberglass shipping box.
                  Tony

                  --- On Fri, 4/3/09, Jim Fox <djamesfox@...> wrote:

                  From: Jim Fox <djamesfox@...>
                  Subject: Re: [Cedar Strip Canoes] Re: Lowering the seats
                  To: cedarstripcanoes@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Friday, April 3, 2009, 2:44 PM












                  Thanks

                  --- On Fri, 4/3/09, Anthony Spezio <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:bambotony%40yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="/mc/compose?to=bambotony%40yahoo.com">bambotony@yahoo. com> wrote:



                  From: Anthony Spezio <bambotony@yahoo. com>

                  Subject: Re: [Cedar Strip Canoes] Re: Lowering the seats

                  To: cedarstripcanoes@ yahoogroups. com

                  Date: Friday, April 3, 2009, 3:36 PM



                  Jim,

                  We bought enough Resin and Cloth for two 16' Redwood Canoes for about 800.00 including all shipping

                  We did go with the more expensive Resin from System three but have no regrets. The Glass was bought from the canoe dealer up by Buffalo N.Y. but has a Canadian address.  I would have to find the Invoice to get the name. If you want that, I will look it up.

                  If I can be of any help to you, feel free to ask.

                  Tony



                  --- On Wed, 4/1/09, Jim Fox <djamesfox@yahoo. com> wrote:



                  From: Jim Fox <djamesfox@yahoo. com>

                  Subject: Re: [Cedar Strip Canoes] Re: Lowering the seats

                  To: cedarstripcanoes@ yahoogroups. com

                  Date: Wednesday, April 1, 2009, 4:30 PM



                  Hi Tony,



                  We wrote awhile back. I'm building a Bayhawk Duet (redwood) What should I expect to pay for cloth and resin? Can you give me a couple good sources and types?



                  Thanks,



                  Jim Fox



                  --- On Wed, 4/1/09, Anthony Spezio <bambotony@yahoo. com> wrote:



                  From: Anthony Spezio <bambotony@yahoo. com>



                  Subject: Re: [Cedar Strip Canoes] Re: Lowering the seats



                  To: cedarstripcanoes@ yahoogroups. com



                  Date: Wednesday, April 1, 2009, 5:26 PM



                  Got a laugh out of that one.



                  Arkansas Tony



                  --- On Wed, 4/1/09, longshot <longshot49@ yahoo. com> wrote:



                  From: longshot <longshot49@ yahoo. com>



                  Subject: [Cedar Strip Canoes] Re: Lowering the seats



                  To: cedarstripcanoes@ yahoogroups. com



                  Date: Wednesday, April 1, 2009, 1:03 PM



                  --- In cedarstripcanoes@ yahoogroups. com, "gyipee" <smart151@.. .> wrote:



                  >



                  > --- In cedarstripcanoes@ yahoogroups. com, "longshot" <longshot49@ > wrote:



                  > >



                  > > --- In cedarstripcanoes@ yahoogroups. com, "Tim Greiner" <casey51234@ > wrote:



                  > > >



                  > > > Corky-



                  > > >



                  > > > The only rule of thumb I have heard of is to put them just high enough to get your foot under without twisting. This to allow kneeling without trapping your foot or twisting it for long periods. As for the necessity of kneeling in a boat that only sees lakes and slow rivers, I have my doubts- I think the rule came from river running where you go through rapids and need to kneel for control. You could mount the seats on some long threaded rod to fine tune.



                  > >



                  > >



                  > > Gee I have size 16 feet and if I wanted to get my feet under the seat it would have to be out of the canoe.



                  > >



                  > > ............ ......... ......Tom C



                  > > Hi That made me laugh....... .. Size 16 could you not just use your shoes as canoes .........



                  >



                  I have been told that I have canoes for feet but I can assure you I can't walk on water....... ......... .Tom C



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]































                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Marc Ornstein
                  ... I apologize for being slow to respond to this post, but I ve had difficulty accessing my Yahoo Account. Seems all is resolved now. With regard to kneeling
                  Message 8 of 16 , Apr 6 5:28 AM
                    --- In cedarstripcanoes@yahoogroups.com, "longshot" <longshot49@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > --- In cedarstripcanoes@yahoogroups.com, "gyipee" <smart151@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > --- In cedarstripcanoes@yahoogroups.com, "longshot" <longshot49@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > --- In cedarstripcanoes@yahoogroups.com, "Tim Greiner" <casey51234@> wrote:
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Corky-
                    > > > >
                    > > > > The only rule of thumb I have heard of is to put them just high enough to get your foot under without twisting. This to allow kneeling without trapping your foot or twisting it for long periods. As for the necessity of kneeling in a boat that only sees lakes and slow rivers, I have my doubts- I think the rule came from river running where you go through rapids and need to kneel for control. You could mount the seats on some long threaded rod to fine tune.
                    > > >

                    I apologize for being slow to respond to this post, but I've had difficulty accessing my Yahoo Account. Seems all is resolved now.

                    With regard to kneeling in a canoe;
                    1st off I will acknowledge that some people never get comfortable kneeling for long periods. It may be due to joint or other physical issues. I will point out that MOST people who have difficulty kneeling get over it with time and patience. It takes a while for the necessary muscles, ligaments, etc to adapt.

                    As for boat control there is no question that it is improved when kneeling. The center of gravity is lowered, making the boat more stable. The three points of contact between the paddler and the boat (fanny and both knees)are more secure than while sitting and while kneeling the three points of contact are closer to the boats center of rotation. The kneeling position also allows for greater torso rotation, which allows for a longer vertical paddle stroke.

                    If however your goal is primarily to go fast and straight, hit and switch paddling may be your best bet. In this case, you'll sit up on a seat with your feet against foot pegs and you'll probably use a bent shaft blade and paddle hit and switch style. You'll still be able to turn and control the boat, just not as well as when kneeling.

                    It's fine to bend one's feet in order to get them under the seat. Unless the hull is very deep and the seat is mounted exceedingly high that will be the norm. As long as you can easily get them out from underneath the seat you should be fine. I find I am most comfortable wearing wetsuit booties on my feet. Anything with a heel, may catch. Anything with a stiff sole will make comfortable kneeling difficult or impossible.

                    If you want to explore what good boat control is all about, consider Freestyle instruction. Contrary to popular belief, Freestyle is not necessarily about fancy paddling and choreographed performances. It is all about boat control. The strokes and maneuvers taught in Freestyle levels 1 through 3 are almost all practical, everyday procedures which you'll use on your local streams and lakes. Even the reverse maneuvers taught in levels 4 and 5 are useful once you master them. Only a very few of us on the fringe play with the music and choreography thing. For more information about Freestyle instruction check out the ACA website (www.americancanoe.org) or the Freestyle website (www.freestylecanoeing.com).

                    Marc Ornstein
                    Dogpaddle Canoe Works
                    Custom Canoe Paddles and Cedar Strip Canoes
                    > > >
                    > > > Gee I have size 16 feet and if I wanted to get my feet under the seat it would have to be out of the canoe.
                    > > >
                    > > > ...........................Tom C
                    > > > Hi That made me laugh......... Size 16 could you not just use your shoes as canoes .........
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    > I have been told that I have canoes for feet but I can assure you I can't walk on water.................Tom C
                    >
                  • charles.k.scott@dartmouth.edu
                    ... If you want to explore what good boat control is all about, consider Freestyle instruction. Contrary to popular belief, Freestyle is not necessarily about
                    Message 9 of 16 , Apr 6 6:19 AM
                      --- You wrote:
                      If you want to explore what good boat control is all about, consider Freestyle instruction. Contrary to popular belief, Freestyle is not necessarily about fancy paddling and choreographed performances. It is all about boat control. The strokes and maneuvers taught in Freestyle levels 1 through 3 are almost all practical, everyday procedures which you'll use on your local streams and lakes. Even the reverse maneuvers taught in levels 4 and 5 are useful once you master them. Only a very few of us on the fringe play with the music and choreography thing. For more information about Freestyle instruction check out the ACA website (www.americancanoe.org) or the Freestyle website (www.freestylecanoeing.com).
                      --- end of quote ---

                      Thanks Marc. I'm familiar with freestyle canoeing, not because I have done it but because I checked it out last summer at various websites. My wife is not exactly negative about learning more about how to control the canoe from the bow, she's just negative about learning from ME...

                      She doesn't like my teaching style I guess.

                      I suppose I could get used to anything, regarding kneeling, but on the other hand, my wife doesn't like how heavy the Winisk is and wants me to build another canoe that is smaller, lighter and has more primary stability. The Winisk doesn't feel heavy to me, but she helps carry it and lift it onto the canoe rack on the truck and therefore has a valid opinion.

                      So it looks like I will be forced to build another canoe, oh woe is me. ;-)

                      Corky Scott
                    • Carel Ruysink
                      I fully agree with Marc. Who am I to know it better than him (judging his beautifull films). Free style is not only usefull as show or in advanced whitewater
                      Message 10 of 16 , Apr 6 1:15 PM
                        I fully agree with Marc. Who am I to know it better than him (judging his beautifull films).
                        Free style is not only usefull as show or in advanced whitewater canoeing but are of great use and joy on those calm evenings in secluded waters when everything is silent and peacefull.

                        I only want to add another deviation of the kneeling position that I practise from time to time.
                        It is half kneeling with one lower leg on the floor and the other leg on foot in a forward position a bit like medieaval longbow archers do to have a stable shooting position. Flatwater canoe competitionracers do it also thatc way. Only I have my bum on the seat much like in the kneeling position. Actually it is the kneeling position with one leg (where your paddle is in the water) under your seat and the other in fronr off you with only that foot on the floor. It gives you also a three point support but it relieves the strain from your "folded" knee.
                        In fact it gives you the best posture for long distance strait paddling.
                        Mostly I do it early in the season when my body is for a long time not used to being "folded" at my knees.

                        May be you feel better when I tell you that my wife too is not open to my teaching style, neither is my friends wife to his. When needed we "teach" each others wife, works well.

                        About a lighter and more stable canoe;
                        It is more the sheer size of the canoe that makes handling the canoe cumbersome than its weight. In that respect will a (shorter) more stable hardly help. Only very lightweight might help ie. epoxy/carbon/kevlar.
                        Btw. if you have the space it is nice to have different canoes for different purposes.

                        carel.
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: charles.k.scott@...
                        To: cedarstripcanoes@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 3:19 PM
                        Subject: Re: [Cedar Strip Canoes] Re: Lowering the seats


                        --- You wrote:
                        If you want to explore what good boat control is all about, consider Freestyle instruction. Contrary to popular belief, Freestyle is not necessarily about fancy paddling and choreographed performances. It is all about boat control. The strokes and maneuvers taught in Freestyle levels 1 through 3 are almost all practical, everyday procedures which you'll use on your local streams and lakes. Even the reverse maneuvers taught in levels 4 and 5 are useful once you master them. Only a very few of us on the fringe play with the music and choreography thing. For more information about Freestyle instruction check out the ACA website (www.americancanoe.org) or the Freestyle website (www.freestylecanoeing.com).
                        --- end of quote ---

                        Thanks Marc. I'm familiar with freestyle canoeing, not because I have done it but because I checked it out last summer at various websites. My wife is not exactly negative about learning more about how to control the canoe from the bow, she's just negative about learning from ME...

                        She doesn't like my teaching style I guess.

                        I suppose I could get used to anything, regarding kneeling, but on the other hand, my wife doesn't like how heavy the Winisk is and wants me to build another canoe that is smaller, lighter and has more primary stability. The Winisk doesn't feel heavy to me, but she helps carry it and lift it onto the canoe rack on the truck and therefore has a valid opinion.

                        So it looks like I will be forced to build another canoe, oh woe is me. ;-)

                        Corky Scott




                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Carel Ruysink
                        I fully agree with Marc. Who am I to know it better than him (judging his beautifull films). Free style is not only usefull as show or in advanced whitewater
                        Message 11 of 16 , Apr 6 1:15 PM
                          I fully agree with Marc. Who am I to know it better than him (judging his beautifull films).
                          Free style is not only usefull as show or in advanced whitewater canoeing but are of great use and joy on those calm evenings in secluded waters when everything is silent and peacefull.

                          I only want to add another deviation of the kneeling position that I practise from time to time.
                          It is half kneeling with one lower leg on the floor and the other leg on foot in a forward position a bit like medieaval longbow archers do to have a stable shooting position. Flatwater canoe competitionracers do it also thatc way. Only I have my bum on the seat much like in the kneeling position. Actually it is the kneeling position with one leg (where your paddle is in the water) under your seat and the other in fronr off you with only that foot on the floor. It gives you also a three point support but it relieves the strain from your "folded" knee.
                          In fact it gives you the best posture for long distance strait paddling.
                          Mostly I do it early in the season when my body is for a long time not used to being "folded" at my knees.

                          May be you feel better when I tell you that my wife too is not open to my teaching style, neither is my friends wife to his. When needed we "teach" each others wife, works well.

                          About a lighter and more stable canoe;
                          It is more the sheer size of the canoe that makes handling the canoe cumbersome than its weight. In that respect will a (shorter) more stable hardly help. Only very lightweight might help ie. epoxy/carbon/kevlar.
                          Btw. if you have the space it is nice to have different canoes for different purposes.

                          carel.
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: charles.k.scott@...
                          To: cedarstripcanoes@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 3:19 PM
                          Subject: Re: [Cedar Strip Canoes] Re: Lowering the seats


                          --- You wrote:
                          If you want to explore what good boat control is all about, consider Freestyle instruction. Contrary to popular belief, Freestyle is not necessarily about fancy paddling and choreographed performances. It is all about boat control. The strokes and maneuvers taught in Freestyle levels 1 through 3 are almost all practical, everyday procedures which you'll use on your local streams and lakes. Even the reverse maneuvers taught in levels 4 and 5 are useful once you master them. Only a very few of us on the fringe play with the music and choreography thing. For more information about Freestyle instruction check out the ACA website (www.americancanoe.org) or the Freestyle website (www.freestylecanoeing.com).
                          --- end of quote ---

                          Thanks Marc. I'm familiar with freestyle canoeing, not because I have done it but because I checked it out last summer at various websites. My wife is not exactly negative about learning more about how to control the canoe from the bow, she's just negative about learning from ME...

                          She doesn't like my teaching style I guess.

                          I suppose I could get used to anything, regarding kneeling, but on the other hand, my wife doesn't like how heavy the Winisk is and wants me to build another canoe that is smaller, lighter and has more primary stability. The Winisk doesn't feel heavy to me, but she helps carry it and lift it onto the canoe rack on the truck and therefore has a valid opinion.

                          So it looks like I will be forced to build another canoe, oh woe is me. ;-)

                          Corky Scott




                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • charles.k.scott@dartmouth.edu
                          ... About a lighter and more stable canoe; It is more the sheer size of the canoe that makes handling the canoe cumbersome than its weight. In that respect
                          Message 12 of 16 , Apr 7 6:11 AM
                            --- You wrote:
                            About a lighter and more stable canoe;
                            It is more the sheer size of the canoe that makes handling the canoe cumbersome than its weight. In that respect will a (shorter) more stable hardly help. Only very lightweight might help ie. epoxy/carbon/kevlar.
                            Btw. if you have the space it is nice to have different canoes for different purposes.
                            --- end of quote ---

                            The next canoe I will be building is a 15 footer, as opposed to the 17.6+ foot Winisk. I added the + because it ended up being a few inches longer than the planned 17' 6" called for in the plans. Don't know why that happened...

                            Also, I used purple heart for the accent strip, the keel strip (I say keel strip, but it's actually just two strips that formed the very bottom of the canoe), as well as the two decks. It looks great, gets LOTS of compliments whenever we put in, but my wife judges it to be heavy.

                            The next canoe should be lighter simply because it's shorter, but also because I will not be using any hardwoods for the accent strip. Not sure about using softwood for the deck, but perhaps I can at least make them thinner than the decks on the Winisk.

                            Corky Scott
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