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Re: [Cedar Strip Canoes] Re: Glueing strips discoveries

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  • rberling@charter.net
    --I found strap clamps at Harbor Freight for $1.00 or two that worked similar to the inner tube idea, but I also liked adding cleats for clamping to the
    Message 1 of 11 , Dec 20, 2006
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      --I found strap clamps at Harbor Freight for $1.00 or two that worked similar to the inner tube idea, but I also liked adding cleats for clamping to the stations.

      Richard C. Berling
      rberling@...
      608-241-0817

      ---- Jon <ssnvet637@...> wrote:
      > I made big rubber bands out of inner tubes and used a combination of those with the blocks to hold the strips tight to the forms.
      >
      > Tim Greiner <casey51234@...> wrote: Corky:
      >
      > One thing that surprised me (the books didn't mention it) was that
      > when you get to the curve of the bilge, you need to hold the previous
      > strip in place while gluing/clamping the new one. The downward
      > clamping force tends to push the already-glued strip away from the
      > form- not a problem on stapled construction. I used similar plywood
      > brackets as yours, and wedged the previous strip before placing the
      > new- a pain but necessary. You might want to think about how the
      > wedgeless clamping will do on the bilge, maybe taping will prevent
      > the pushout, maybe not and wedges could be in order for that area.
      >
      > Tim Greiner
      >
      > --- charles.k.scott wrote:
      > >
      > > Well one thing is obvious, glueing up strips without stapling is a
      > method that takes a while. When you staple, you can lay up strip
      > after strip without needing to wait for things to dry. But I'm not
      > doing it that way, of course, I'm glueing without staples.
      > >
      > > There are a number of ways to bind the strips one to another so
      > that the glue squeezes out and no gaps occur. The way I've chosen to
      > go is to wrap tape around the strips pulling the strip that is to be
      > glued tight to the one you are glueing to.
      > >
      > > In addition, the strips need to be held tight to the forms somehow
      > so that it takes the shape the designer desired. With staples, you
      > just staple right to the form, simple. In the non staple method, you
      > do it by somehow pressing the strips against the form. Most often
      > blocks of slotted plywood are used. They are clamped to the side of
      > the form and overhang the strip that needs to be tightened against
      > it. Frequently wedges are used to then push the strip against the
      > form and also down against the strip to which it's being glued.
      > >
      > > Being lazy, I found another method: The slotted block can be
      > loosely aligned and slid over the strip, and then pushed against the
      > form, tightening it in that position. This pulls the strip tight to
      > the form and locks it there without using wedges. Why eliminate
      > wedges? Well I've found they kind of get in the way while I'm
      > rushing back and forth wrapping the strips with tape and wiping off
      > the glue squeezing out, inside and out. And they also glue
      > themselves to the strips. I employed my wife several times as the
      > excess squeeze-out glue wiper while I moved along wrapping the tape
      > and applying the slotted blocks. It was one less thing to worry
      > about, and I thought it would be interesting for her to assist me.
      > She didn't violently object in the event. She was also very helpful
      > getting the strip from upside down glued position, over the canoe to
      > the other side and in place to begin taping. Without two people
      > doing this, it's sort of like herding snakes, but it can be done
      > alone.
      > >
      > > One thing I'd like to do to the slotted plywood is to round off the
      > edges so that the sharp edges do not dent the strips as I push the
      > slotted block tightly to the form so that it holds things tight.
      > That shouldn't be too difficult to manage, using a quarter round
      > router bit and the router table. We'll see.
      > >
      > > The tape method of compressing the strips on top of each other
      > works pretty well, it just requires the right kind of tape. You just
      > get pretty busy trying to get the strip tightened up and properly
      > locked in place before the glue takes a set. Moving from one end to
      > the other seems prudent, but you could go from center out, if the
      > mood strikes, but not from end to center, or you will end up with a
      > bow in the middle...
      > >
      > > I've been using masking tape, but some types are a bit thin and rip
      > easily. This always seems to happen while I'm pulling up on the tape
      > so I could literally punch myself in the face if I'm not careful.
      > I'd like to try a different kind of tape, something that would
      > stretch, to evenly apply pressure once it's wrapped. Electrical tape
      > would work, it stretches, but it may be expensive and I'm not sure
      > that it would leave a residue. Probably not since it would only be
      > on for one or two days at the most.
      > >
      > > Anyway, things seem to be going fairly well, if a bit slow. I'm in
      > no rush though, I kind of like stepping back and viewing progress and
      > thinking about what strip should go on next.
      > >
      > > I guess I should either glue up all the scarf stock I have laying
      > on the floor beside the canoe, or move it to another location as I'm
      > going to ruin it by stepping on it where it is now.
      > >
      > > Corky (I need a bigger shop) Scott
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
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    • charles.k.scott@dartmouth.edu
      ... Corky: One thing that surprised me (the books didn t mention it) was that when you get to the curve of the bilge, you need to hold the previous strip in
      Message 2 of 11 , Dec 20, 2006
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        --- You wrote:
        Corky:

        One thing that surprised me (the books didn't mention it) was that
        when you get to the curve of the bilge, you need to hold the previous
        strip in place while gluing/clamping the new one. The downward
        clamping force tends to push the already-glued strip away from the
        form- not a problem on stapled construction. I used similar plywood
        brackets as yours, and wedged the previous strip before placing the
        new- a pain but necessary. You might want to think about how the
        wedgeless clamping will do on the bilge, maybe taping will prevent
        the pushout, maybe not and wedges could be in order for that area.

        Tim Greiner
        --- end of quote ---

        I've noticed the tendency of the strips to hold away from the forms, especially near the stern where the shape of the canoe from fore to aft reflexes somewhat. The strips are held firmly to the forms by the brackets, until they (the brackets) are removed for the next strip. The brackets I made extend well down past the strip being glued and the one below, so wedging it securely should not be an issue. I've been hoping that the various strips, as they dried in place, would hold more closely to the form but in case that doesn't happen, I've got to have a plan "B".

        I thought about it some last night during one of my sleepless moments and wondered if I would have to glue some block to the inside of the canoe that I could then clamp somehow to the form to hold that section true to the form so that when I fiberglass, the shape is accurate and not ballooned out a bit. The block would then have to be ripped off the inner hull and the hull repaired before fiberglassing, of course. It's either that or screw/nail it and cover it with fiberglass, then dig it out later and repair the mess. Another solution would be to rig an A frame over the area that doesn't hold the shape without pressure, lay up the fiberglass and then attach brackets that push the strips in where they should be. The "pushers" can be just one-by's with the end touching the fiberglass protected with tape so they don't bond to the hull. This would leave a dent in the fiberglass to deal with later, but at least all the glass would be there and repair of such a dent is easy.

        I did spend some time last night "glue proofing" the brackets with packing tape as I continued rounding off the edges. Rounding the edges does appear necessary as some of the strips were in fact dented from the brackets.

        Corky Scott
      • calvin plato
        Corky, I was just looking at your photos of the clamping devices you are using in place of staples. They look really good and seem very simple to use. I
        Message 3 of 11 , Dec 22, 2006
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          Corky, I was just looking at your photos of the clamping devices you are using in place of staples. They look really good and seem very simple to use. I think when I make my two Little Auks this spring I am going to try not using staples as well. I will definitely use the technique you employed. In addition, I think I am going to use those come along straps that people use to tie down stuff on their cars and trucks. I have a whole bunch of these straps as they don't cost a lot at Wally-mart. In the past, I have used them when I go over the curve portion of the kayak/canoe. I think the combination of your clamping device and these straps should be really good in making sure the strips remain flush with the forms. The idea of going staple-less is looking very appealing to me because of the time savings, not having to deal with splintered wood when the staples don't go into the wood right, and the amount of time and pain it is to remove those staples. so thanks for the
          great idea.

          Jordan

          charles.k.scott@... wrote:
          --- You wrote:
          Corky,

          I am a visual guy, any way to take a picture?
          --- end of quote ---

          Ok, just uploaded the pictures of the latest construction including a few of the wedgeless block technique. Even have a shot of me unwinding tape. They are in the photos section under "Corky's Winisk".

          I did buy some electrical tape yesterday to try out. It wasn't very expensive at 79 cents a roll so we'll see.

          I also spent a few minutes last night having fun with my Dremel tool and a tiny roundover bit I have for it. It must be about an eighth inch radius. I also have a little router collar for it so that turns it into a miniature router. The roundover bit did a nice job of cleaning up the sharp inside edges of the slot in the plywood, so I can now lean on it to apply pressure and not have a sharp corner dent the strips. It's always fun to use cool power tools.

          Corky Scott




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