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Re: [Cedar Strip Canoes] Re: epoxy and glass layup

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  • Clark Kent
    not filling the glass on the bottom is a GREAT non-slip surface. I used that in my canoe but i did the whole interior . The main disadvantage is that it
    Message 1 of 12 , Aug 30 8:31 AM
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      not filling the glass on the bottom is a GREAT non-slip surface. I used that in my canoe but i did the whole interior . The main disadvantage is that it holds dirt and never gets clean. When i do it again I will leave just the areas i want non-slip that way or some add-on material later.
      Kent

      "J. R. Sloan" <jr_sloan@...> wrote:
      Ron--

      By now, you've probably got the exterior skin on, and are champing
      to get to the interior glassing and epoxy. My advice is to take
      your time and make sure that the sags, cascades and little wrinkles
      from the sealer, glass and filler coats are all smoothed and covered
      with the "final" finish coat of epoxy before you jump ahead to the
      interior. Pretty quick you'll be on the inside, and wish you were
      still doing exterior stuff.

      One thing you can do to make the interior job easier at this point
      is get up under the molds and catch any drips that may have crept
      between the strips, before they harden past the point of being able
      to wipe or scrape them off with a chisel or razor blade. This step
      will save you a lot of corrective sanding when you finally DO turn
      the canoe over for the interior glass and epoxy.

      When you do start putting in the interior coats, here's an obscure
      hint I've not seen elsewhere: do the bow and stern fillets first to
      get these key parts under control. Then, while they are setting up
      but still soft enough to manipulate, press a strip of scrap 'glas
      down onto each fillet, smoothing ande fitting it with your fingers
      (inside disposable rubber gloves, of course) to work out any
      irregularities in these joints. This step ensures your fillets fit
      clear to the bottoms of the joints, and with the glas on the top as
      a cureed smooth surface, makes it easier to insert/install the
      fiberglass that you will cover the inside with.

      Regarding the inside fiberglas, consider this idea: while filling
      the cloth's grain makes for a slick and glossy surface, leaving it
      wetted out but not filled to the top leaves a fabric grain in the
      bottom of the boat that can help later to reduce slipperiness for
      both crew and equipment when underway. Some prefer an inside deck
      to be glossy-slick, others prefer to have a grippable surface.
      Now's when you decide.

      JR






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    • Ron Niklasson
      Hi everyone, I wanted to thank all of you who responded to my questions about fiberglassing. All of your suggestions and warnings were considered. Now I have
      Message 2 of 12 , Sep 15, 2006
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        Hi everyone,
        I wanted to thank all of you who responded to my questions about fiberglassing. All of your suggestions and warnings were considered.
        Now I have another question. I've glassed the outer hull , starting with a seal coat applied with a roller, wet out the glass with a roller, and put two fill coats on with a roller. The choice of using a roller on the fill coats was a bad one in my opinion. The surface was not smooth at all and there were areas that, well, looked like crap. I pulled out the sander and smoothed the entire hull. I then brushed on a fill coat, making sure that I got an even coat all over the hull. It looks much much better, Now for the question. There are a few small areas that have some bumps and dimples. Should I apply another coat of epoxy? Or Will the varnish fill in these areas when I get to that step? I do want to keep the boat as light as possible, but I'll sacrifice light weight for good looks if I need to. If I need to post a few pictures for ya'll to help in suggestions, I can do that this evening.
        I guess in a nutshell I'm wondering if the epoxy coat has to be glass smooth before the varnish is applied.
        Thanks,
        Ron




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      • ofmik
        The smoother the final coat, the better the varnish will look! Try using a light scraper (the fine, thin steel scapers that cabinet makers use) to get rid of
        Message 3 of 12 , Sep 15, 2006
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          The smoother the final coat, the better the varnish will look! Try using a light scraper (the fine, thin steel scapers that cabinet makers use) to get rid of those anoying dimples that tend to show up as the epoxy dries. If you use a roller to wet out your glass and for fill coats, I have found tipping off the entire job with a cheap foam brush will eliminate many of the blemishes you had mentioned.

          Ron Niklasson <starryguy59@...> wrote: Hi everyone,
          I wanted to thank all of you who responded to my questions about fiberglassing. All of your suggestions and warnings were considered.
          Now I have another question. I've glassed the outer hull , starting with a seal coat applied with a roller, wet out the glass with a roller, and put two fill coats on with a roller. The choice of using a roller on the fill coats was a bad one in my opinion. The surface was not smooth at all and there were areas that, well, looked like crap. I pulled out the sander and smoothed the entire hull. I then brushed on a fill coat, making sure that I got an even coat all over the hull. It looks much much better, Now for the question. There are a few small areas that have some bumps and dimples. Should I apply another coat of epoxy? Or Will the varnish fill in these areas when I get to that step? I do want to keep the boat as light as possible, but I'll sacrifice light weight for good looks if I need to. If I need to post a few pictures for ya'll to help in suggestions, I can do that this evening.
          I guess in a nutshell I'm wondering if the epoxy coat has to be glass smooth before the varnish is applied.
          Thanks,
          Ron


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        • John Howard
          Ron, I have to agree with ofmik, the smoother the base, the better the finish. Scrape off the high spots and fill the low spots with the same epoxy and after
          Message 4 of 12 , Sep 15, 2006
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            Ron,

            I have to agree with ofmik, the smoother the base, the better the
            finish. Scrape off the high spots and fill the low spots with the same
            epoxy and after it sets up, sand it smooth (the fairing board can help
            here). A light set at a low angle may help find the lows and highs
            (not as effective on sanded surface, but it does help a bit). The
            epoxy is thicker and will fill the lows better than the varnish could
            ever do.
          • charles.k.scott@dartmouth.edu
            ... Hi everyone, I wanted to thank all of you who responded to my questions about fiberglassing. All of your suggestions and warnings were considered. Now I
            Message 5 of 12 , Sep 15, 2006
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              --- You wrote:
              Hi everyone,
              I wanted to thank all of you who responded to my questions about fiberglassing. All of your suggestions and warnings were considered.
              Now I have another question. I've glassed the outer hull , starting with a seal coat applied with a roller, wet out the glass with a roller, and put two fill coats on with a roller. The choice of using a roller on the fill coats was a bad one in my opinion. The surface was not smooth at all and there were areas that, well, looked like crap. I pulled out the sander and smoothed the entire hull. I then brushed on a fill coat, making sure that I got an even coat all over the hull. It looks much much better, Now for the question. There are a few small areas that have some bumps and dimples. Should I apply another coat of epoxy? Or Will the varnish fill in these areas when I get to that step? I do want to keep the boat as light as possible, but I'll sacrifice light weight for good looks if I need to. If I need to post a few pictures for ya'll to help in suggestions, I can do that this evening.
              I guess in a nutshell I'm wondering if the epoxy coat has to be glass smooth before the varnish is applied.
              Thanks,
              Ron
              --- end of quote ---

              Ron, varnish will not smooth out bumps and dips unless you apply a gazillion coats and sand after every application, except that last two or so. The rule of thumb with paint/varnish is that the finish coat will look only as good as the surface on which you are applying it. If the surface is rough, that's what the paint/varnish will look like.

              A question regarding your roller. There are many kinds of rollers, some are designed for paint, some for varnish and some are very specifically designed to spread epoxy. The latter type doesn't look much like a paint roller, it's solid metal and the roller has grooves in it that are cut around the diamenter of the roll. It looks like a bunch of thick groove edged washers bolted on a 6" bolt and then fixed on a handle so you can roll it. All it's supposed to do is squeegee the epoxy along. It's used instead of actual squeegees by some folks because it won't pull the fiberglass as you roll the epoxy along. Press too aggressively with the squeegee and it will pull and distort the fiberglass. Once that happens, fixing it is kind of like Breyer Rabbit and the "tar baby"(Breyer Rabbit got stuck on it because he hit it and his hand got stuck. He used his other hand to pull his stuck hand out and that got stuck too. Eventually he had all limbs stuck to it which is what the fox wanted). In this case every time you try to fix what you've done, you mess up something else. Wetted out fiberglass is a hard to schlep around. Best to not get into that situation in the first place.

              So what kind of roller did you use?

              Thanks, Corky
            • Ron Niklasson
              Hi Corky, I got all my fiberglass supplies from Newfound. They supplied 3 rollers (that you have to cut in half to fir the handle). The roller itself does not
              Message 6 of 12 , Sep 15, 2006
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                Hi Corky,
                I got all my fiberglass supplies from Newfound. They supplied 3 rollers (that you have to cut in half to fir the handle). The roller itself does not look like a paint roller with the heavy nap, nor is it a foam roller. It has small bristles about an eighth of an inch long. It worked great for wetting out the fiberglass.
                http://www.newfound.com/systhreeepoxyadds.htm
                You can see the rollers at the above link down at the bottom of the page.

                One other thing. Not wanting to spend any excess money on this, or any, project, I bought three paint tray liners (disposable) from Home Depot. I found that if you let the left over epoxy sit overnight, it just peels off the tray liner and you can reuse it over and over. Only saves a couple of bucks, but they do add up over time.
                Ron

                charles.k.scott@... wrote:
                --- You wrote:
                Hi everyone,
                I wanted to thank all of you who responded to my questions about fiberglassing. All of your suggestions and warnings were considered.
                Now I have another question. I've glassed the outer hull , starting with a seal coat applied with a roller, wet out the glass with a roller, and put two fill coats on with a roller. The choice of using a roller on the fill coats was a bad one in my opinion. The surface was not smooth at all and there were areas that, well, looked like crap. I pulled out the sander and smoothed the entire hull. I then brushed on a fill coat, making sure that I got an even coat all over the hull. It looks much much better, Now for the question. There are a few small areas that have some bumps and dimples. Should I apply another coat of epoxy? Or Will the varnish fill in these areas when I get to that step? I do want to keep the boat as light as possible, but I'll sacrifice light weight for good looks if I need to. If I need to post a few pictures for ya'll to help in suggestions, I can do that this evening.
                I guess in a nutshell I'm wondering if the epoxy coat has to be glass smooth before the varnish is applied.
                Thanks,
                Ron
                --- end of quote ---

                Ron, varnish will not smooth out bumps and dips unless you apply a gazillion coats and sand after every application, except that last two or so. The rule of thumb with paint/varnish is that the finish coat will look only as good as the surface on which you are applying it. If the surface is rough, that's what the paint/varnish will look like.

                A question regarding your roller. There are many kinds of rollers, some are designed for paint, some for varnish and some are very specifically designed to spread epoxy. The latter type doesn't look much like a paint roller, it's solid metal and the roller has grooves in it that are cut around the diamenter of the roll. It looks like a bunch of thick groove edged washers bolted on a 6" bolt and then fixed on a handle so you can roll it. All it's supposed to do is squeegee the epoxy along. It's used instead of actual squeegees by some folks because it won't pull the fiberglass as you roll the epoxy along. Press too aggressively with the squeegee and it will pull and distort the fiberglass. Once that happens, fixing it is kind of like Breyer Rabbit and the "tar baby"(Breyer Rabbit got stuck on it because he hit it and his hand got stuck. He used his other hand to pull his stuck hand out and that got stuck too. Eventually he had all limbs stuck to it which is what the fox
                wanted). In this case every time you try to fix what you've done, you mess up something else. Wetted out fiberglass is a hard to schlep around. Best to not get into that situation in the first place.

                So what kind of roller did you use?

                Thanks, Corky





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