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Re: Seeking Thoughts on Monocoque Strip Hull

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  • rambos_locker
    Thank you all for your replys. As this is being bulit as a racing outrigger, i will probably go with the idea of vacuum bagged carbon fiber on the inside of
    Message 1 of 6 , Jul 31, 2006
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      Thank you all for your replys.

      As this is being bulit as a racing outrigger, i will probably go with
      the idea of vacuum bagged carbon fiber on the inside of the hull and
      deck and a very lite vacuum bagged fiberglass fabric on the outside.

      This is a fully sealed, sit on top design,(no deck openings) with just
      a small breather tube in the deck.

      I will go with the bead and cove and thin out the cedar/paulownia when
      i fair the canoe. Small recessed carbon fiber footwells will be
      dropped in and sealed to the deck. Foam seat on top.

      I'm hoping to achieve finished weight of 10- 12kgs (20-24lb) without
      ama and iakos.

      Because it is has an outrigger there is no stability built in to the
      hull, that is why the beam is only 14-15 inches at the widest point.

      Maximum canoe depth 10 inches(280mm)is actually in the front half of
      the canoe.

      Any other suggestions would be gladly received.

      Cheers Ian Newland (Rambo)
    • rambos_locker
      Hello Gents, Just a progress report on the two person outrigger project i posted (to refresh your mind read last post below) As you can see i have changed the
      Message 2 of 6 , Aug 12, 2006
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        Hello Gents, Just a progress report on the two person outrigger
        project i posted (to refresh your mind read last post below)

        As you can see i have changed the design to a two person outrigger and
        changed the construction some what.

        So far I have constructed a number of .20 sq metre (400mm x 500mm)
        curved hull sections for testing. These are constructed of light
        weight hand selected 5mm x 15 mm milled cedar strips which are to thin
        to be bead and coved so each strip is hand planed to align the edges
        (no gaps). The strips are stapled and the spans between the mould
        stations are hot gun glued to align the strips while the edge glue
        dries. This has produced a very accurate fair surface. With fairing
        the hull thickness is now 4mm and appears to be quite strong and light..

        This is the stage where I now want to try some different lay-ups on
        the samples.

        What do you think of this; One layer 4 oz (138g/m2) "S" glass vacuum
        bagged to outside hull with subsequent filler coats of lightweight
        epoxy fairing compound (micro balloons etc.) then a coat of white 2
        pack polyuathane paint. (As the hull to the sheerline will be white
        and the deck will be timber clear look. Inside hull same glass lay-up
        but no filler coats. (Trying to save weight)

        Other samples will be layed up differently. Any suggestions here?

        At this point I should give you an idea of the overall OC2 size and
        shape.

        24 ft long

        Targeted paddler displacement 145Kgs (1 70kg and 1 75 kg paddler)

        Canoe Surface area 6.30m2

        Beam 16 inches

        Enclosed volume .417m3

        My intention is to weigh the different samples and make a judgement on
        weight verses strength for the final composite construction.

        I'm probably being a tad optimistic but I'm aiming for somewhere
        between 20 – 25 kgs. The samples will tell.

        Using a well known formula for strip planking lay-ups (¼ inch strip
        plank 6 oz "e" glass sandwich with solid epoxy filler) .717 pound per
        sq foot

        Therefore Canoe surface area of (6.30m2) 67 square feet x .717 = 48
        pounds or 21 kgs. So with my focus on weight saving, it seems achievable.


        I realise "S" glass does not wet out real clear, but I'm willing to
        experiment with it on the deck for the extra strength.

        Foot wells will be drop thu the deck moulded carbon fibre and the
        iakos attachment design is still on the drawing board.


        So there you have it. Any suggestions with the layup?

        Cheers Rambo



        --- In cedarstripcanoes@yahoogroups.com, "rambos_locker"
        <rambos_locker@...> wrote:
        >
        > Thank you all for your replys.
        >
        > As this is being bulit as a racing outrigger, i will probably go with
        > the idea of vacuum bagged carbon fiber on the inside of the hull and
        > deck and a very lite vacuum bagged fiberglass fabric on the outside.
        >
        > This is a fully sealed, sit on top design,(no deck openings) with just
        > a small breather tube in the deck.
        >
        > I will go with the bead and cove and thin out the cedar/paulownia when
        > i fair the canoe. Small recessed carbon fiber footwells will be
        > dropped in and sealed to the deck. Foam seat on top.
        >
        > I'm hoping to achieve finished weight of 10- 12kgs (20-24lb) without
        > ama and iakos.
        >
        > Because it is has an outrigger there is no stability built in to the
        > hull, that is why the beam is only 14-15 inches at the widest point.
        >
        > Maximum canoe depth 10 inches(280mm)is actually in the front half of
        > the canoe.
        >
        > Any other suggestions would be gladly received.
        >
        > Cheers Ian Newland (Rambo)
        >
      • Adrian
        In the past few weeks, a couple of requests have been made by list- members looking for plans for racing boats and one-man outriggers. I figured I d toss in my
        Message 3 of 6 , Aug 13, 2006
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          In the past few weeks, a couple of requests have been made by list-
          members looking for plans for racing boats and one-man outriggers. I
          figured I'd toss in my very unusual request.

          Has anyone seen or know of an Internet web site with plans for a
          Viking Longboat? I've got some scholarly, printed text, but no plans.

          Thanks,
          Adrian
        • rambos_locker
          Hi Gents, As no one had any suggestions for the layups for my outrigger test samples i went ahead and did a few of my own. I m about to weigh the finished
          Message 4 of 6 , Aug 16, 2006
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            Hi Gents, As no one had any suggestions for the layups for my
            outrigger test samples i went ahead and did a few of my own. I'm about
            to weigh the finished samples and will post the results of the weights
            per sq foot here later today.

            Thanks for the tips on the thick foam pad sander, works well. Really
            difficult to clean up glue and uneven strips inside a curved 1ft
            section of hull.

            Cheers Rambo


            --- In cedarstripcanoes@yahoogroups.com, "rambos_locker"
            <rambos_locker@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hello Gents, Just a progress report on the two person outrigger
            > project i posted (to refresh your mind read last post below)
            >
            > As you can see i have changed the design to a two person outrigger and
            > changed the construction some what.
            >
            > So far I have constructed a number of .20 sq metre (400mm x 500mm)
            > curved hull sections for testing. These are constructed of light
            > weight hand selected 5mm x 15 mm milled cedar strips which are to thin
            > to be bead and coved so each strip is hand planed to align the edges
            > (no gaps). The strips are stapled and the spans between the mould
            > stations are hot gun glued to align the strips while the edge glue
            > dries. This has produced a very accurate fair surface. With fairing
            > the hull thickness is now 4mm and appears to be quite strong and
            light..
            >
            > This is the stage where I now want to try some different lay-ups on
            > the samples.
            >
            > What do you think of this; One layer 4 oz (138g/m2) "S" glass vacuum
            > bagged to outside hull with subsequent filler coats of lightweight
            > epoxy fairing compound (micro balloons etc.) then a coat of white 2
            > pack polyuathane paint. (As the hull to the sheerline will be white
            > and the deck will be timber clear look. Inside hull same glass lay-up
            > but no filler coats. (Trying to save weight)
            >
            > Other samples will be layed up differently. Any suggestions here?
            >
            > At this point I should give you an idea of the overall OC2 size and
            > shape.
            >
            > 24 ft long
            >
            > Targeted paddler displacement 145Kgs (1 70kg and 1 75 kg paddler)
            >
            > Canoe Surface area 6.30m2
            >
            > Beam 16 inches
            >
            > Enclosed volume .417m3
            >
            > My intention is to weigh the different samples and make a judgement on
            > weight verses strength for the final composite construction.
            >
            > I'm probably being a tad optimistic but I'm aiming for somewhere
            > between 20 – 25 kgs. The samples will tell.
            >
            > Using a well known formula for strip planking lay-ups (¼ inch strip
            > plank 6 oz "e" glass sandwich with solid epoxy filler) .717 pound per
            > sq foot
            >
            > Therefore Canoe surface area of (6.30m2) 67 square feet x .717 = 48
            > pounds or 21 kgs. So with my focus on weight saving, it seems
            achievable.
            >
            >
            > I realise "S" glass does not wet out real clear, but I'm willing to
            > experiment with it on the deck for the extra strength.
            >
            > Foot wells will be drop thu the deck moulded carbon fibre and the
            > iakos attachment design is still on the drawing board.
            >
            >
            > So there you have it. Any suggestions with the layup?
            >
            > Cheers Rambo
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In cedarstripcanoes@yahoogroups.com, "rambos_locker"
            > <rambos_locker@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Thank you all for your replys.
            > >
            > > As this is being bulit as a racing outrigger, i will probably go with
            > > the idea of vacuum bagged carbon fiber on the inside of the hull and
            > > deck and a very lite vacuum bagged fiberglass fabric on the outside.
            > >
            > > This is a fully sealed, sit on top design,(no deck openings) with just
            > > a small breather tube in the deck.
            > >
            > > I will go with the bead and cove and thin out the cedar/paulownia when
            > > i fair the canoe. Small recessed carbon fiber footwells will be
            > > dropped in and sealed to the deck. Foam seat on top.
            > >
            > > I'm hoping to achieve finished weight of 10- 12kgs (20-24lb) without
            > > ama and iakos.
            > >
            > > Because it is has an outrigger there is no stability built in to the
            > > hull, that is why the beam is only 14-15 inches at the widest point.
            > >
            > > Maximum canoe depth 10 inches(280mm)is actually in the front half of
            > > the canoe.
            > >
            > > Any other suggestions would be gladly received.
            > >
            > > Cheers Ian Newland (Rambo)
            > >
            >
          • rambos_locker
            Weights have been done and i m excited. My strongest and best test panel weighs .423lb per Sqft. The finished panel is 3/16 thick including 4 oz glass both
            Message 5 of 6 , Aug 16, 2006
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              Weights have been done and i'm excited. My strongest and best test
              panel weighs .423lb per Sqft. The finished panel is 3/16 thick
              including 4 oz glass both sides but only the outer with a filler epoxy
              coat and sanded smooth ans fair. The inner is just the wet out coat.
              (all that is required for full strength) As the accepted average
              weight of a kayak stripper is .717 lb per sqft, i have come in way
              under weight and the panel is as stiff as hell.

              Based on the two projects i'm undertaking that puts the OC1 outrigger at
              20.5 lbs or 9.3 kgs and the OC2 outrigger at 29.65lb or 13.45kgs. With
              only a foam seat, drop through the deck foot wells (which will be
              carbon fiber moulded and weigh no more than the timber removed to drop
              them in thu the deck) rudder and rudder cables, that's it. Not much
              more than a vaccum bagged epoxy infused double carbon factory job,
              which i own and weighs 19lbs or 9kgs (Hull only)

              Definately worth the time i put in to fit the strips with no gaps to
              obsorb resin and carefully removing excess resin in the wetout. I
              vaccum bagged the inside and outside layups and the peel ply silky
              fabric i used over the top of the wet layup flattend the fabric and
              resin to produce an almost smooth finish on the outside of the hull
              which required only a one light filler coat to fully bury the fabric.

              Time will tell if the cross section is strong enough to build a full
              size OC1/2 outrigger and survive the racing in the ocean.

              Starting full scale construction soon, keep you posted with the
              progress, as this project appears to be unique and may be of interest
              to others thinking of doing the same.

              Cheers Rambo
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