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Geomuggle Anti-cache Violence

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  • westlog
    Greetings to all CCG-ers, From the recent posts, it is clear that geocaching has become an exciting, lucrative, and fun target of criminals who think it is
    Message 1 of 5 , Mar 28 1:48 AM
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      Greetings to all CCG-ers,

      From the recent posts, it is clear that geocaching has become an
      exciting, lucrative, and "fun" target of criminals who think it is
      their "right" to harass and violate people, destroy and steal
      property, and commit violence against the property, customs, and
      emotionally valuable activities and order of others.

      These criminals only conduct this violence against groups for which
      they have absolutely no respect or trepidation. If no one takes any
      action to stop or respond to such aggressive behavior, the result is
      the same as if we were to condone and encourage it. The real problem
      is that once begun, it always worsens. Even at a comparatively
      trivial level, this kind of vandalism can effectively destroy our
      great hobby/sport, diminishing its value, and ruining its fun.

      In decades past (I've seen over 5 of them), people have not allowed
      this sort of problem to develop. In most parts of the country, this
      is still true today. I've lived, worked, or travelled in all 50
      states and have noticed that California is unique in allowing, or more
      accurately, enabling criminal activity like this.

      I suggest that we cannot tolerate this and should be alert to any such
      activity. At the first hint of a problem, we should consider using
      our technical expertise to expose the perpetrators. Then, we can stop
      the problem by responding in kind. We can easily make it very
      expensive for these criminals. If we are lucky, we won't have to deal
      with it. If not, we can create our own luck.

      Take good care, Rick ;-)
    • Stephanie Cottrell Bryant
      Rick, I have no idea what you re suggesting, since you don t actually put forth any suggestions for taking action. But having browsed the forums on GC.com, I
      Message 2 of 5 , Mar 28 9:39 AM
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        Rick,

        I have no idea what you're suggesting, since you don't actually put
        forth any suggestions for taking action. But having browsed the forums
        on GC.com, I can assure you that California is *not* unique in
        tolerating a lot of this behavior. The forums are rife with posts
        about caches being destroyed or going missing, geocachers who have
        been targeted, and nasty things being left in caches.

        The fact is, there are a lot of jerks in the world. Some of them are
        in geocaching. Some of them are outside geocaching but use the
        geocaching.com website as a way to find targets for their inane humor.
        In some cases, the perps are stupid enough to leave evidence,
        apparently wanting to get caught. In many cases, the perps are
        adolescents being adolescents (which is, by and large, a good reason
        to sting them with their parents' wrath). And in many cases, the perps
        are adolescents who never grew up. There's no law against muggling
        someone's geocache. Unless the person leaves evidence of another
        crime, there are no laws being broken. Most of these criminals go away
        after they hit a few caches, realizing how lame it really is when
        nobody comments on it.

        Exactly *what* do you think we should do about it?

        --Stephanie
      • Monty Groves
        One could say they are cleaning up the litter I suppose. They may be full grown perps. As well, last I checked, California had one of the lowest crime rates
        Message 3 of 5 , Mar 28 10:23 AM
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          One could say they are cleaning up the litter I suppose.  They may be full grown perps.  As well, last I checked, California had one of the lowest crime rates of any states in the USA.  We should keep it htat way.  It just costs too much to live here without a job. 
           
          I would treat this like the grafitti problem in reverse.  Keep re-placing the caches and they will tire of it.
           
          MOnty
          -----Original Message-----
          From: Stephanie Cottrell Bryant [mailto:mortaine@...]
          Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 9:40 AM
          To: ccgca@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [CCGC] Re: Geomuggle Anti-cache Violence


          Rick,

          I have no idea what you're suggesting, since you don't actually put
          forth any suggestions for taking action. But having browsed the forums
          on GC.com, I can assure you that California is *not* unique in
          tolerating a lot of this behavior. The forums are rife with posts
          about caches being destroyed or going missing, geocachers who have
          been targeted, and nasty things being left in caches.

          The fact is, there are a lot of jerks in the world. Some of them are
          in geocaching. Some of them are outside geocaching but use the
          geocaching.com website as a way to find targets for their inane humor.
          In some cases, the perps are stupid enough to leave evidence,
          apparently wanting to get caught. In many cases, the perps are
          adolescents being adolescents (which is, by and large, a good reason
          to sting them with their parents' wrath). And in many cases, the perps
          are adolescents who never grew up. There's no law against muggling
          someone's geocache. Unless the person leaves evidence of another
          crime, there are no laws being broken. Most of these criminals go away
          after they hit a few caches, realizing how lame it really is when
          nobody comments on it.

          Exactly *what* do you think we should do about it?

          --Stephanie




        • westlog
          Hi Stephanie, Thank you for setting me straight. Your descriptions are right on target. Although the data I have (I teach and work in the field) shows we are
          Message 4 of 5 , Mar 28 3:27 PM
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            Hi Stephanie,

            Thank you for setting me straight. Your descriptions are right on
            target. Although the data I have (I teach and work in the field)
            shows we are moving in that direction, others may have a different
            perception of what they believe is "truth," and I do not dispute that.

            FYI, under the California Penal Code, destroying a geocache is a
            misdemeanor. This simply gives us (geocachers) a response tool.

            My suggestion was clearly too implicit. Sorry. I only meant to
            suggest that we report such activity as to remain aware of any
            threat. We could have then chatted about the issue over pizza and
            soda. If the community doesn't care, then I am beating against the
            wind and will remain quiet on the issue.

            Thanks again and take good care,
            Rick

            --- In ccgca@yahoogroups.com, "Stephanie Cottrell Bryant"
            <mortaine@g...> wrote:
            >
            > Rick,
            >
            > I have no idea what you're suggesting, since you don't actually put
            > forth any suggestions for taking action. But having browsed the
            forums
            > on GC.com, I can assure you that California is *not* unique in
            > tolerating a lot of this behavior. The forums are rife with posts
            > about caches being destroyed or going missing, geocachers who have
            > been targeted, and nasty things being left in caches.
            >
            > The fact is, there are a lot of jerks in the world. Some of them
            are
            > in geocaching. Some of them are outside geocaching but use the
            > geocaching.com website as a way to find targets for their inane
            humor.
            > In some cases, the perps are stupid enough to leave evidence,
            > apparently wanting to get caught. In many cases, the perps are
            > adolescents being adolescents (which is, by and large, a good
            reason
            > to sting them with their parents' wrath). And in many cases, the
            perps
            > are adolescents who never grew up. There's no law against muggling
            > someone's geocache. Unless the person leaves evidence of another
            > crime, there are no laws being broken. Most of these criminals go
            away
            > after they hit a few caches, realizing how lame it really is when
            > nobody comments on it.
            >
            > Exactly *what* do you think we should do about it?
            >
            > --Stephanie
          • westlog
            Hi Monty, Good comments. The way we address this sort of problem in other areas is two-fold. One, we ensure that we (communicators, hams, contesters, hikers,
            Message 5 of 5 , Mar 28 3:43 PM
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              Hi Monty,

              Good comments. The way we address this sort of problem in other
              areas is two-fold. One, we ensure that we (communicators, hams,
              contesters, hikers, etc) know what's up. Two, we initially ignore
              the "perps." When they don't get a response, they are unsure if they
              have an effect and quickly tire of their misbehavior.

              I live in California and don't choose to see bad trends. I do work
              as a DSW, the Emergency Coordinator for Seaside, and as a registered
              emergency communicator, and have significant access to crime stats.
              California is at 10th in violent crime, in the middle of reported
              crime against property, and is experiencing a rise in high-tech and
              low dollar value crime. This includes unreported crimes such as what
              we may be seeing with the present topic.

              I don't have time to fret about some problem no one cares about, and
              I certainly don't want to create stress. For me, geocaching is a fun
              hobby. I have no interest in turning it into a drama or conflict.
              So, I'll head back to school and once in a while out to find a cache
              or two.

              Thanks for your thoughts and have fun on the geocaching trail.
              Take good care,
              Rick ;-)

              --- In ccgca@yahoogroups.com, "Monty Groves" <mrgroves@c...> wrote:
              > One could say they are cleaning up the litter I suppose. They may
              be full
              > grown perps. As well, last I checked, California had one of the
              lowest
              > crime rates of any states in the USA. We should keep it htat way.
              It just
              > costs too much to live here without a job.
              >
              > I would treat this like the grafitti problem in reverse. Keep re-
              placing
              > the caches and they will tire of it.
              >
              > MOnty
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