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Re: [ccd-newastro] Tracking error questions

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  • yahoo@wodaski.com
    That is not tracking error. It looks like typical blooming that occurs with many anti-blooming chips when they are binned. (I see this, for example, on our
    Message 1 of 8 , Dec 9, 2012
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      That is not tracking error.

      It looks like typical 'blooming' that occurs with many anti-blooming chips when they are binned. (I see this, for example, on our STL-11000.)

      It is sideways, instead of vertical, a dead give-away for this phenomenon. <g>

      It may be possible to have a camera adjusted to avoid this, but it will probably affect sensitivity or other performance factors when imaging unbinned.

      Ron Wodaski



      On Dec 9, 2012, at 9:58 AM, Mark <limawms@...> wrote:

      > I'm having a tracking error that shows up in 2x2 binning but isn't noticable at 1x1. My guess is that it shows due to the increased sensitivity of 2x2, but I thought that it would show in a stacked image of 1x1s yet it doesn't. My mount can't find the worm index to be able to start PEC training so I'm wondering if I'll be able to tweak the guiding to overcome this error or maybe I should just shoot at 1x1 in RGB as well as L. I'm imaging with an SBIG STF8300M at 689mm f6.5. I'd like to hear your thoughts.
      >
      > Here is a link to a 100% crop of a 10 min. 2x2. The bright stars show a dot at the 3 o'clock.
      >
      > http://www.flickr.com/photos/limawms/8258531016/in/photostream
      >
      >
      > This is a stack of 14 10 min. 1x1s.No dots
      >
      > http://www.flickr.com/photos/limawms/8258521292/in/photostream
      >
      >
      > Just as an aside here's a finished 2x2 image I did this summer.
      >
      >
      > http://www.flickr.com/photos/limawms/7918546858/in/photostream/
      >
      >
      > Thanks
      > Mark
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • Mark
      Ron, So is my best bet just image everything at 1x1 or is there an easy way to fix this in processing? Mark
      Message 2 of 8 , Dec 10, 2012
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        Ron,

        So is my best bet just image everything at 1x1 or is there an easy way to fix this in processing?

        Mark

        --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, yahoo@... wrote:
        >
        > That is not tracking error.
        >
        > It looks like typical 'blooming' that occurs with many anti-blooming chips when they are binned. (I see this, for example, on our STL-11000.)
        >
        > It is sideways, instead of vertical, a dead give-away for this phenomenon. <g>
        >
        > It may be possible to have a camera adjusted to avoid this, but it will probably affect sensitivity or other performance factors when imaging unbinned.
        >
        > Ron Wodaski
        >
        >
        >
        > On Dec 9, 2012, at 9:58 AM, Mark <limawms@...> wrote:
        >
        > > I'm having a tracking error that shows up in 2x2 binning but isn't noticable at 1x1. My guess is that it shows due to the increased sensitivity of 2x2, but I thought that it would show in a stacked image of 1x1s yet it doesn't. My mount can't find the worm index to be able to start PEC training so I'm wondering if I'll be able to tweak the guiding to overcome this error or maybe I should just shoot at 1x1 in RGB as well as L. I'm imaging with an SBIG STF8300M at 689mm f6.5. I'd like to hear your thoughts.
        > >
        > > Here is a link to a 100% crop of a 10 min. 2x2. The bright stars show a dot at the 3 o'clock.
        > >
        > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/limawms/8258531016/in/photostream
        > >
        > >
        > > This is a stack of 14 10 min. 1x1s.No dots
        > >
        > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/limawms/8258521292/in/photostream
        > >
        > >
        > > Just as an aside here's a finished 2x2 image I did this summer.
        > >
        > >
        > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/limawms/7918546858/in/photostream/
        > >
        > >
        > > Thanks
        > > Mark
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ------------------------------------
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
      • yahoo@wodaski.com
        As far as I know, this is a hardware tweak. Contact the manufacturer of the camera to see if there is anything that can be changed to suit your requirements.
        Message 3 of 8 , Dec 10, 2012
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          As far as I know, this is a hardware tweak. Contact the manufacturer of the camera to see if there is anything that can be changed to suit your requirements.

          Ron Wodaski



          On Dec 10, 2012, at 8:08 PM, Mark <limawms@...> wrote:

          > Ron,
          >
          > So is my best bet just image everything at 1x1 or is there an easy way to fix this in processing?
          >
          > Mark
          >
          > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, yahoo@... wrote:
          >>
          >> That is not tracking error.
          >>
          >> It looks like typical 'blooming' that occurs with many anti-blooming chips when they are binned. (I see this, for example, on our STL-11000.)
          >>
          >> It is sideways, instead of vertical, a dead give-away for this phenomenon. <g>
          >>
          >> It may be possible to have a camera adjusted to avoid this, but it will probably affect sensitivity or other performance factors when imaging unbinned.
          >>
          >> Ron Wodaski
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >> On Dec 9, 2012, at 9:58 AM, Mark <limawms@...> wrote:
          >>
          >>> I'm having a tracking error that shows up in 2x2 binning but isn't noticable at 1x1. My guess is that it shows due to the increased sensitivity of 2x2, but I thought that it would show in a stacked image of 1x1s yet it doesn't. My mount can't find the worm index to be able to start PEC training so I'm wondering if I'll be able to tweak the guiding to overcome this error or maybe I should just shoot at 1x1 in RGB as well as L. I'm imaging with an SBIG STF8300M at 689mm f6.5. I'd like to hear your thoughts.
          >>>
          >>> Here is a link to a 100% crop of a 10 min. 2x2. The bright stars show a dot at the 3 o'clock.
          >>>
          >>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/limawms/8258531016/in/photostream
          >>>
          >>>
          >>> This is a stack of 14 10 min. 1x1s.No dots
          >>>
          >>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/limawms/8258521292/in/photostream
          >>>
          >>>
          >>> Just as an aside here's a finished 2x2 image I did this summer.
          >>>
          >>>
          >>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/limawms/7918546858/in/photostream/
          >>>
          >>>
          >>> Thanks
          >>> Mark
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>> ------------------------------------
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • randy_nulman
          Hi, I agree with Ron in terms of your anti blooming adjustments (hardware adjustments) need to be done. It is certainly more effecient to take your color data
          Message 4 of 8 , Dec 11, 2012
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            Hi,
            I agree with Ron in terms of your anti blooming adjustments (hardware adjustments) need to be done. It is certainly more effecient to take your color data binned, but note that many hi end imagers do take their color data unbinned for more resolution...it just requires longer sub times.

            The above being said, I think you should still get the hardware fix and with the help of SBIG, you may be able to do this yourself.

            Also, you can "fix" your previous binned data via processing but it will take some work in PS to remove the blooms...or perhaps a different program that will do the same.

            Hope this helps,
            Randy Nulman

            --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Mark" <limawms@...> wrote:
            >
            > Ron,
            >
            > So is my best bet just image everything at 1x1 or is there an easy way to fix this in processing?
            >
            > Mark
            >
            > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, yahoo@ wrote:
            > >
            > > That is not tracking error.
            > >
            > > It looks like typical 'blooming' that occurs with many anti-blooming chips when they are binned. (I see this, for example, on our STL-11000.)
            > >
            > > It is sideways, instead of vertical, a dead give-away for this phenomenon. <g>
            > >
            > > It may be possible to have a camera adjusted to avoid this, but it will probably affect sensitivity or other performance factors when imaging unbinned.
            > >
            > > Ron Wodaski
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > On Dec 9, 2012, at 9:58 AM, Mark <limawms@> wrote:
            > >
            > > > I'm having a tracking error that shows up in 2x2 binning but isn't noticable at 1x1. My guess is that it shows due to the increased sensitivity of 2x2, but I thought that it would show in a stacked image of 1x1s yet it doesn't. My mount can't find the worm index to be able to start PEC training so I'm wondering if I'll be able to tweak the guiding to overcome this error or maybe I should just shoot at 1x1 in RGB as well as L. I'm imaging with an SBIG STF8300M at 689mm f6.5. I'd like to hear your thoughts.
            > > >
            > > > Here is a link to a 100% crop of a 10 min. 2x2. The bright stars show a dot at the 3 o'clock.
            > > >
            > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/limawms/8258531016/in/photostream
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > This is a stack of 14 10 min. 1x1s.No dots
            > > >
            > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/limawms/8258521292/in/photostream
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Just as an aside here's a finished 2x2 image I did this summer.
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/limawms/7918546858/in/photostream/
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Thanks
            > > > Mark
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > ------------------------------------
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > >
            >
          • Jim
            I ve not had to deal with blooming with my camera but I ve just attended a imaging seminar where CCDSTACK was used to debloom sub frames with much worse
            Message 5 of 8 , Dec 11, 2012
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              I've not had to deal with blooming with my camera but I've just attended a imaging seminar where CCDSTACK was used to debloom sub frames with much worse examples of blooming that were post processed so you wouldn't know the artifact was there at all and it was easy. With that said it was an expert imager/processor at the controls but the process is built into the data rejection workflow of CCDSTACK and is very effective. I liked the software so well that I purchased it for it's sophisticated functionality over what I normally used.

              Jim

              --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Mark" <limawms@...> wrote:
              >
              > Ron,
              >
              > So is my best bet just image everything at 1x1 or is there an easy way to fix this in processing?
              >
              > Mark
              >
              > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, yahoo@ wrote:
              > >
              > > That is not tracking error.
              > >
              > > It looks like typical 'blooming' that occurs with many anti-blooming chips when they are binned. (I see this, for example, on our STL-11000.)
              > >
              > > It is sideways, instead of vertical, a dead give-away for this phenomenon. <g>
              > >
              > > It may be possible to have a camera adjusted to avoid this, but it will probably affect sensitivity or other performance factors when imaging unbinned.
              > >
              > > Ron Wodaski
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > On Dec 9, 2012, at 9:58 AM, Mark <limawms@> wrote:
              > >
              > > > I'm having a tracking error that shows up in 2x2 binning but isn't noticable at 1x1. My guess is that it shows due to the increased sensitivity of 2x2, but I thought that it would show in a stacked image of 1x1s yet it doesn't. My mount can't find the worm index to be able to start PEC training so I'm wondering if I'll be able to tweak the guiding to overcome this error or maybe I should just shoot at 1x1 in RGB as well as L. I'm imaging with an SBIG STF8300M at 689mm f6.5. I'd like to hear your thoughts.
              > > >
              > > > Here is a link to a 100% crop of a 10 min. 2x2. The bright stars show a dot at the 3 o'clock.
              > > >
              > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/limawms/8258531016/in/photostream
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > This is a stack of 14 10 min. 1x1s.No dots
              > > >
              > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/limawms/8258521292/in/photostream
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Just as an aside here's a finished 2x2 image I did this summer.
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/limawms/7918546858/in/photostream/
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Thanks
              > > > Mark
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > ------------------------------------
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > >
              >
            • ka4gbr
              Wanted to jump in here. I have this happen to me once in a while when I bin . sometimes normal processing can take care of it but sometimes it won t. Is there
              Message 6 of 8 , Dec 12, 2012
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                Wanted to jump in here.
                I have this happen to me once in a while when I bin .
                sometimes normal processing can take care of it but sometimes it won't.
                Is there a plug in for Photoshop that might take care of this?

                Ray Hurst




                ________________________________
                From: Jim <jim.gianoulakis@...>
                To: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Tue, December 11, 2012 3:32:32 PM
                Subject: [ccd-newastro] Re: Tracking error questions

                 
                I've not had to deal with blooming with my camera but I've just attended a
                imaging seminar where CCDSTACK was used to debloom sub frames with much worse
                examples of blooming that were post processed so you wouldn't know the artifact
                was there at all and it was easy. With that said it was an expert
                imager/processor at the controls but the process is built into the data
                rejection workflow of CCDSTACK and is very effective. I liked the software so
                well that I purchased it for it's sophisticated functionality over what I
                normally used.

                Jim

                --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Mark" <limawms@...> wrote:
                >
                > Ron,
                >
                > So is my best bet just image everything at 1x1 or is there an easy way to fix
                >this in processing?
                >
                > Mark
                >
                > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, yahoo@ wrote:
                > >
                > > That is not tracking error.
                > >
                > > It looks like typical 'blooming' that occurs with many anti-blooming chips
                >when they are binned. (I see this, for example, on our STL-11000.)
                > >
                > > It is sideways, instead of vertical, a dead give-away for this phenomenon.
                ><g>
                >
                > >
                > > It may be possible to have a camera adjusted to avoid this, but it will
                >probably affect sensitivity or other performance factors when imaging unbinned.
                > >
                > > Ron Wodaski
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > On Dec 9, 2012, at 9:58 AM, Mark <limawms@> wrote:
                > >
                > > > I'm having a tracking error that shows up in 2x2 binning but isn't
                >noticable at 1x1. My guess is that it shows due to the increased sensitivity of
                >2x2, but I thought that it would show in a stacked image of 1x1s yet it doesn't.
                >My mount can't find the worm index to be able to start PEC training so I'm
                >wondering if I'll be able to tweak the guiding to overcome this error or maybe I
                >should just shoot at 1x1 in RGB as well as L. I'm imaging with an SBIG STF8300M
                >at 689mm f6.5. I'd like to hear your thoughts.
                > > >
                > > > Here is a link to a 100% crop of a 10 min. 2x2. The bright stars show a dot
                >at the 3 o'clock.
                > > >
                > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/limawms/8258531016/in/photostream
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > This is a stack of 14 10 min. 1x1s.No dots
                > > >
                > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/limawms/8258521292/in/photostream
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > Just as an aside here's a finished 2x2 image I did this summer.
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/limawms/7918546858/in/photostream/
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > Thanks
                > > > Mark
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > ------------------------------------
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > >
                >




                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Mark
                Randy & Jim Thanks for the info. This is what I was wondering about a processing fix. I m guessing that in PS we re talking about using the clone tool? I
                Message 7 of 8 , Dec 12, 2012
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                  Randy & Jim

                  Thanks for the info. This is what I was wondering about a processing fix. I'm guessing that in PS we're talking about using the clone tool? I have been looking at the CCDWare suite of programs - I probably should try the free period at least on CCDStack and see how it goes. CCDStack I could use anytime but several of the others depend on clear skies which can often be a rare commodity around here. In the past I've tried a program or two on trial and had them expire before I had a chance to use them. As far as the camera goes, I sent an email to SBIG support 2 days ago and haven't heard back so I'll call them. It's still under warranty. If I new it was going to be 500 bucks less just months after I bought it, it'd be in a shipping box now on it's way here and I wouldn't even know I had this bloomin' problem ;-)

                  Mark

                  --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "randy_nulman" <rj.nulman@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hi,
                  > I agree with Ron in terms of your anti blooming adjustments (hardware adjustments) need to be done. It is certainly more effecient to take your color data binned, but note that many hi end imagers do take their color data unbinned for more resolution...it just requires longer sub times.
                  >
                  > The above being said, I think you should still get the hardware fix and with the help of SBIG, you may be able to do this yourself.
                  >
                  > Also, you can "fix" your previous binned data via processing but it will take some work in PS to remove the blooms...or perhaps a different program that will do the same.
                  >
                  > Hope this helps,
                  > Randy Nulman
                  >
                  > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Mark" <limawms@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Ron,
                  > >
                  > > So is my best bet just image everything at 1x1 or is there an easy way to fix this in processing?
                  > >
                  > > Mark
                  > >
                  > > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, yahoo@ wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > That is not tracking error.
                  > > >
                  > > > It looks like typical 'blooming' that occurs with many anti-blooming chips when they are binned. (I see this, for example, on our STL-11000.)
                  > > >
                  > > > It is sideways, instead of vertical, a dead give-away for this phenomenon. <g>
                  > > >
                  > > > It may be possible to have a camera adjusted to avoid this, but it will probably affect sensitivity or other performance factors when imaging unbinned.
                  > > >
                  > > > Ron Wodaski
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > On Dec 9, 2012, at 9:58 AM, Mark <limawms@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > > I'm having a tracking error that shows up in 2x2 binning but isn't noticable at 1x1. My guess is that it shows due to the increased sensitivity of 2x2, but I thought that it would show in a stacked image of 1x1s yet it doesn't. My mount can't find the worm index to be able to start PEC training so I'm wondering if I'll be able to tweak the guiding to overcome this error or maybe I should just shoot at 1x1 in RGB as well as L. I'm imaging with an SBIG STF8300M at 689mm f6.5. I'd like to hear your thoughts.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Here is a link to a 100% crop of a 10 min. 2x2. The bright stars show a dot at the 3 o'clock.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/limawms/8258531016/in/photostream
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > This is a stack of 14 10 min. 1x1s.No dots
                  > > > >
                  > > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/limawms/8258521292/in/photostream
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Just as an aside here's a finished 2x2 image I did this summer.
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/limawms/7918546858/in/photostream/
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Thanks
                  > > > > Mark
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > ------------------------------------
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
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