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New gear??

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  • Mountain Master
    I d like to get some thoughts on a new scope and camera please..I am graduating from old Newt and film! :-) I am mainly interested in deep space very flat,
    Message 1 of 12 , May 14, 2012
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      I'd like to get some thoughts on a new
      'scope and camera please..I am "graduating from old
      Newt and film!":-)

      I am mainly interested in deep space very flat, wide field
      ccd photography and will not skimp on the ccd or DSLR...maybe
      a quick planet look now and then to make sure Mars
      has not been sucked in a black hole..

      f/4 would be great if I did not have to buy a Tak..(I hear
      the service is terrible but collimation not that necessary??)
      Would like to play Hubble so RC optics is what I am shooting
      at this time.

      8-10" range..12 if not out of sight $$$-wise...fL less than
      a 1000mm and of course no coma or color issues...gps and
      goto would be nice but mounts can take care of that probably.

      Thanks in advance for your thoughts...I think I've
      eliminated Meade and Celestron f/10s unless someone
      knows a way to nicely speed them up without issues..

      I know celestron sells a reducer to bring the clestron 10 to f8
      and they say f2. Anyone have experience with that?

      I am up for homebrew mods like removing the obstruction in
      the meade or edg to get to f2 and putting in a camera thing...but
      I am not sure what color or coma that would introduce?

      Thanks in advance for your thoughts...I am sruggling between
      $6000 for a Televue 110 OTA (f5.7) with all the levers and stuff,
      Edge HD with Hyperstar 9.25" (f2.3??).

      And then a 8 or 16MP to do monochrome wth filters and
      then a good solid Losmanny G-11 mount but doesnt the
      declination motor get in the way??


      Rich
      >
      > 510 five4one ooh8four1
      De oppresso liber
      ______________________________________________________________
    • Ron Wodaski
      I could write a book with the details (hee hee) but I ve already done that. Allow me to cut to the chase. My basic rules are: * Buy the best mount you can
      Message 2 of 12 , May 14, 2012
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        I could write a book with the details (hee hee) but I've already done that. Allow me to cut to the chase. My basic rules are:

        * Buy the best mount you can afford
        * Put a decent optic on it
        * Put a decent camera on that

        That's the recipe both for fun and for nice images starting out.

        Assuming from your comments that you have about a $10k budget, I would suggest the following as the most fun you can have with astrophotography, while still buying rock solid equipment and learning a lot:

        * Astro-Physics Mach-1 mount
        * Takahashi E180 f/2.8 scope
        * DSLR of your choice (60Da makes the most sense, IMO)

        We use this setup (but with a slightly older Canon camera) for our beginning students with the Tzec Maun Foundation. Here's a 4-minute 2x2 image of the Horsehead:

        http://blog.tzecmaun.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/adminx-adj-HIP26756-CANON-240sec_2010-10-08_013419.jpg

        You can do better than that, of course, but you can get years of pleasure out of imaging with this setup. The small pixels of modern DSLRs mean that even Messier galaxies are fun to image. Highly, highly recommended for the kind of budget you plan to work with. And probably the best bang for the buck, overall, for a high-quality fast widefield system.

        Ron Wodaski



        On May 14, 2012, at 3:15 PM, Mountain Master wrote:

        > I'd like to get some thoughts on a new
        > 'scope and camera please..I am "graduating from old
        > Newt and film!":-)
        >
        > I am mainly interested in deep space very flat, wide field
        > ccd photography and will not skimp on the ccd or DSLR...maybe
        > a quick planet look now and then to make sure Mars
        > has not been sucked in a black hole..
        >
        > f/4 would be great if I did not have to buy a Tak..(I hear
        > the service is terrible but collimation not that necessary??)
        > Would like to play Hubble so RC optics is what I am shooting
        > at this time.
        >
        > 8-10" range..12 if not out of sight $$$-wise...fL less than
        > a 1000mm and of course no coma or color issues...gps and
        > goto would be nice but mounts can take care of that probably.
        >
        > Thanks in advance for your thoughts...I think I've
        > eliminated Meade and Celestron f/10s unless someone
        > knows a way to nicely speed them up without issues..
        >
        > I know celestron sells a reducer to bring the clestron 10 to f8
        > and they say f2. Anyone have experience with that?
        >
        > I am up for homebrew mods like removing the obstruction in
        > the meade or edg to get to f2 and putting in a camera thing...but
        > I am not sure what color or coma that would introduce?
        >
        > Thanks in advance for your thoughts...I am sruggling between
        > $6000 for a Televue 110 OTA (f5.7) with all the levers and stuff,
        > Edge HD with Hyperstar 9.25" (f2.3??).
        >
        > And then a 8 or 16MP to do monochrome wth filters and
        > then a good solid Losmanny G-11 mount but doesnt the
        > declination motor get in the way??
        >
        >
        > Rich
        >>
        >> 510 five4one ooh8four1
        > De oppresso liber
        > ______________________________________________________________
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • rjcalliger
        Thanks much...looking to purchase your book BTW!! :-)) Right on the budget..could push it to $14-$15K easily... friend of mine at LLNL working on adaptive
        Message 3 of 12 , May 14, 2012
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          Thanks much...looking to purchase your book BTW!! :-))

          Right on the budget..could push it to $14-$15K easily...

          friend of mine at LLNL working on adaptive optics..now
          that is a sweet megamill budget!! LOL I spent years there
          now going to spend the retirement!!

          Thanks again,

          Back at research,

          Rich


          --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, Ron Wodaski <yahoo@...> wrote:
          >
          > I could write a book with the details (hee hee) but I've already done that. Allow me to cut to the chase. My basic rules are:
          >
          > * Buy the best mount you can afford
          > * Put a decent optic on it
          > * Put a decent camera on that
          >
          > That's the recipe both for fun and for nice images starting out.
          >
          > Assuming from your comments that you have about a $10k budget, I would suggest the following as the most fun you can have with astrophotography, while still buying rock solid equipment and learning a lot:
          >
          > * Astro-Physics Mach-1 mount
          > * Takahashi E180 f/2.8 scope
          > * DSLR of your choice (60Da makes the most sense, IMO)
          >
          > We use this setup (but with a slightly older Canon camera) for our beginning students with the Tzec Maun Foundation. Here's a 4-minute 2x2 image of the Horsehead:
          >
          > http://blog.tzecmaun.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/adminx-adj-HIP26756-CANON-240sec_2010-10-08_013419.jpg
          >
          > You can do better than that, of course, but you can get years of pleasure out of imaging with this setup. The small pixels of modern DSLRs mean that even Messier galaxies are fun to image. Highly, highly recommended for the kind of budget you plan to work with. And probably the best bang for the buck, overall, for a high-quality fast widefield system.
          >
          > Ron Wodaski
          >
          >
          >
          > On May 14, 2012, at 3:15 PM, Mountain Master wrote:
          >
          > > I'd like to get some thoughts on a new
          > > 'scope and camera please..I am "graduating from old
          > > Newt and film!":-)
          > >
          > > I am mainly interested in deep space very flat, wide field
          > > ccd photography and will not skimp on the ccd or DSLR...maybe
          > > a quick planet look now and then to make sure Mars
          > > has not been sucked in a black hole..
          > >
          > > f/4 would be great if I did not have to buy a Tak..(I hear
          > > the service is terrible but collimation not that necessary??)
          > > Would like to play Hubble so RC optics is what I am shooting
          > > at this time.
          > >
          > > 8-10" range..12 if not out of sight $$$-wise...fL less than
          > > a 1000mm and of course no coma or color issues...gps and
          > > goto would be nice but mounts can take care of that probably.
          > >
          > > Thanks in advance for your thoughts...I think I've
          > > eliminated Meade and Celestron f/10s unless someone
          > > knows a way to nicely speed them up without issues..
          > >
          > > I know celestron sells a reducer to bring the clestron 10 to f8
          > > and they say f2. Anyone have experience with that?
          > >
          > > I am up for homebrew mods like removing the obstruction in
          > > the meade or edg to get to f2 and putting in a camera thing...but
          > > I am not sure what color or coma that would introduce?
          > >
          > > Thanks in advance for your thoughts...I am sruggling between
          > > $6000 for a Televue 110 OTA (f5.7) with all the levers and stuff,
          > > Edge HD with Hyperstar 9.25" (f2.3??).
          > >
          > > And then a 8 or 16MP to do monochrome wth filters and
          > > then a good solid Losmanny G-11 mount but doesnt the
          > > declination motor get in the way??
          > >
          > >
          > > Rich
          > >>
          > >> 510 five4one ooh8four1
          > > De oppresso liber
          > > ______________________________________________________________
          > >
          > >
          > > ------------------------------------
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
        • Ron Wodaski
          Don t push it too far, or you ll end up with a truly dream setup: an Astro-Phyiscs Riccardi-Honders. We have one in an observatory at the foundation, and
          Message 4 of 12 , May 14, 2012
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            Don't push it too far, or you'll end up with a truly dream setup: an Astro-Phyiscs Riccardi-Honders. <g> We have one in an observatory at the foundation, and it's an incredible scope.

            Ron Wodaski



            On May 14, 2012, at 3:49 PM, rjcalliger wrote:

            > Thanks much...looking to purchase your book BTW!! :-))
            >
            > Right on the budget..could push it to $14-$15K easily...
            >
            > friend of mine at LLNL working on adaptive optics..now
            > that is a sweet megamill budget!! LOL I spent years there
            > now going to spend the retirement!!
            >
            > Thanks again,
            >
            > Back at research,
            >
            > Rich
            >
            >
            > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, Ron Wodaski <yahoo@...> wrote:
            >>
            >> I could write a book with the details (hee hee) but I've already done that. Allow me to cut to the chase. My basic rules are:
            >>
            >> * Buy the best mount you can afford
            >> * Put a decent optic on it
            >> * Put a decent camera on that
            >>
            >> That's the recipe both for fun and for nice images starting out.
            >>
            >> Assuming from your comments that you have about a $10k budget, I would suggest the following as the most fun you can have with astrophotography, while still buying rock solid equipment and learning a lot:
            >>
            >> * Astro-Physics Mach-1 mount
            >> * Takahashi E180 f/2.8 scope
            >> * DSLR of your choice (60Da makes the most sense, IMO)
            >>
            >> We use this setup (but with a slightly older Canon camera) for our beginning students with the Tzec Maun Foundation. Here's a 4-minute 2x2 image of the Horsehead:
            >>
            >> http://blog.tzecmaun.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/adminx-adj-HIP26756-CANON-240sec_2010-10-08_013419.jpg
            >>
            >> You can do better than that, of course, but you can get years of pleasure out of imaging with this setup. The small pixels of modern DSLRs mean that even Messier galaxies are fun to image. Highly, highly recommended for the kind of budget you plan to work with. And probably the best bang for the buck, overall, for a high-quality fast widefield system.
            >>
            >> Ron Wodaski
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >> On May 14, 2012, at 3:15 PM, Mountain Master wrote:
            >>
            >>> I'd like to get some thoughts on a new
            >>> 'scope and camera please..I am "graduating from old
            >>> Newt and film!":-)
            >>>
            >>> I am mainly interested in deep space very flat, wide field
            >>> ccd photography and will not skimp on the ccd or DSLR...maybe
            >>> a quick planet look now and then to make sure Mars
            >>> has not been sucked in a black hole..
            >>>
            >>> f/4 would be great if I did not have to buy a Tak..(I hear
            >>> the service is terrible but collimation not that necessary??)
            >>> Would like to play Hubble so RC optics is what I am shooting
            >>> at this time.
            >>>
            >>> 8-10" range..12 if not out of sight $$$-wise...fL less than
            >>> a 1000mm and of course no coma or color issues...gps and
            >>> goto would be nice but mounts can take care of that probably.
            >>>
            >>> Thanks in advance for your thoughts...I think I've
            >>> eliminated Meade and Celestron f/10s unless someone
            >>> knows a way to nicely speed them up without issues..
            >>>
            >>> I know celestron sells a reducer to bring the clestron 10 to f8
            >>> and they say f2. Anyone have experience with that?
            >>>
            >>> I am up for homebrew mods like removing the obstruction in
            >>> the meade or edg to get to f2 and putting in a camera thing...but
            >>> I am not sure what color or coma that would introduce?
            >>>
            >>> Thanks in advance for your thoughts...I am sruggling between
            >>> $6000 for a Televue 110 OTA (f5.7) with all the levers and stuff,
            >>> Edge HD with Hyperstar 9.25" (f2.3??).
            >>>
            >>> And then a 8 or 16MP to do monochrome wth filters and
            >>> then a good solid Losmanny G-11 mount but doesnt the
            >>> declination motor get in the way??
            >>>
            >>>
            >>> Rich
            >>>>
            >>>> 510 five4one ooh8four1
            >>> De oppresso liber
            >>> ______________________________________________________________
            >>>
            >>>
            >>> ------------------------------------
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • Stan
            ... Collimation is always necessary for a reflector. What service could you possibly need? An OTA doesn t really wear out or break, short of some disaster. ...
            Message 5 of 12 , May 14, 2012
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              --- Mountain Master <rjcalliger@...> wrote:
              > f/4 would be great if I did not have to buy a Tak..(I hear
              > the service is terrible but collimation not that necessary??)

              Collimation is always necessary for a reflector.
              What service could you possibly need? An OTA doesn't really wear out or break, short of some disaster.

              > Would like to play Hubble so RC optics is what I am shooting
              > at this time.

              You are entertaining two opposite types of scopes. You say you want f/4 but Hubble is f/24. Small commercial RCs (sub-meter) are usually f/7-f/10 but f-ratio is a poor way to characterize a scope. Most small RC have FL = 100-140" and f-ratio is simply the result of dividing that FL by the aperture. I suspect you are thinking in terms of photographic f-stops, which does not really apply to true depth in astro-imaging:

              http://www.stanmooreastro.com/SamplingFratioMyth.htm

              > I think I've eliminated Meade and Celestron f/10s
              > unless someone knows a way to nicely speed them up..

              Do you want "speed"? (largely a myth) or do you want wide field? If you want "Hubble" then that's a whole other ball game.

              To a large extent, imaging is divided into two disciplines: wide-field and hi-res. The dividing line occurs near FL = 100" (with a gray area of course). Wide field is largely immune to seeing whereas hi-res is always limited by seeing. Wide field is easier and places lower and fewer demands on the mount and such. Wide field is more common and so it is difficult to find a large enough target that hasn't been shot innumerable times. Hi-res is difficult but potentially rewarding as it reveals lesser known small objects and often-overlooked details in familiar objects.

              > I know celestron sells a reducer to bring the clestron 10 to f8
              > and they say f2.

              The common SCT reducer is 0.66x but you probably want one of the field-corrected type SCT, which have shorter native FL. The f/2 reducers result in a very short FL with very wide field and correspondingly lousy true resolution.

              Stan
              http://www.stanmooreastro.com/index.html
            • Mike Dodd
              ... I absolutely agree with this statement. Two of my favorite images are details in the Rosette Nebula, one in the southeast region:
              Message 6 of 12 , May 14, 2012
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                Stan wrote:
                > Hi-res is difficult but
                > potentially rewarding as it reveals lesser known small objects and
                > often-overlooked details in familiar objects.

                I absolutely agree with this statement. Two of my favorite images are
                details in the Rosette Nebula, one in the southeast region:
                <http://astronomy.mdodd.com/nebulae-04.html#Southeast>

                and another toward the north and west:
                <http://astronomy.mdodd.com/nebulae-04.html#NorthAndWest>

                These were made with a Celestron 9.25" SCT at f/5.6, but more detail
                (and smaller FOV) would have been possible at its native f/10, if my
                mount had supported the 1 arcsec/px image scale at that FL.

                Since then, I sold the C9.25 and bought a TMB-130SS APO (f/7), which
                gives a wider FOV and 2 arcsec/px image scale.

                Even though I like this scope, I'm seriously considering going back to a
                long FL SCT to get the details and galaxy closeups the APO can't
                provide. I miss them a lot.

                There's much to be said for exploring small sections of objects, and see
                what turns up. Definitely rewarding, at least in my experience.

                (At the risk of embarrassing myself, here's another "detail" image, this
                one from the neck of the Pelican Nebula, cropped and colored in
                Photoshop because to me, it resembles a volcano.
                <>http://astronomy.mdodd.com/nebulae-05.html> Some folks might object to
                this type of "artistic" styling, but I like the shot.)
                --
                Mike

                Mike Dodd
                http://astronomy.mdodd.com
                Louisa County, Virginia USA N37.58.23 W77.56.24
              • Mountain Master
                Sweet!! :-) are you scheduling public viewing time ? and Is your book at bookstores --Barnes and Noble,, etc? De oppresso liber
                Message 7 of 12 , May 14, 2012
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                  Sweet!! :-) are you scheduling public viewing time>?

                  and

                  Is your book at bookstores --Barnes and Noble,, etc?

                  De oppresso liber
                  ______________________________________________________________


                  --- On Mon, 5/14/12, Ron Wodaski <yahoo@...> wrote:

                  > From: Ron Wodaski <yahoo@...>
                  > Subject: Re: [ccd-newastro] Re: New gear??
                  > To: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com
                  > Date: Monday, May 14, 2012, 3:24 PM
                  > Don't push it too far, or you'll end
                  > up with a truly dream setup: an Astro-Phyiscs
                  > Riccardi-Honders. <g> We have one in an observatory at
                  > the foundation, and it's an incredible scope.
                  >
                  > Ron Wodaski
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > On May 14, 2012, at 3:49 PM, rjcalliger wrote:
                  >
                  > > Thanks much...looking to purchase your book BTW!! :-))
                  > >
                  > > Right on the budget..could push it to $14-$15K
                  > easily...
                  > >
                  > > friend of mine at LLNL working on adaptive optics..now
                  > > that is a sweet megamill budget!! LOL I spent years
                  > there
                  > > now going to spend the retirement!!
                  > >
                  > > Thanks again,
                  > >
                  > > Back at research,
                  > >
                  > > Rich
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com,
                  > Ron Wodaski <yahoo@...> wrote:
                  > >>
                  > >> I could write a book with the details (hee hee) but
                  > I've already done that. Allow me to cut to the chase. My
                  > basic rules are:
                  > >>
                  > >> * Buy the best mount you can afford
                  > >> * Put a decent optic on it
                  > >> * Put a decent camera on that
                  > >>
                  > >> That's the recipe both for fun and for nice images
                  > starting out.
                  > >>
                  > >> Assuming from your comments that you have about a
                  > $10k budget, I would suggest the following as the most fun
                  > you can have with astrophotography, while still buying rock
                  > solid equipment and learning a lot:
                  > >>
                  > >> * Astro-Physics Mach-1 mount
                  > >> * Takahashi E180 f/2.8 scope
                  > >> * DSLR of your choice (60Da makes the most sense,
                  > IMO)
                  > >>
                  > >> We use this setup (but with a slightly older Canon
                  > camera) for our beginning students with the Tzec Maun
                  > Foundation. Here's a 4-minute 2x2 image of the Horsehead:
                  > >>
                  > >> http://blog.tzecmaun.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/adminx-adj-HIP26756-CANON-240sec_2010-10-08_013419.jpg
                  > >>
                  > >> You can do better than that, of course, but you can
                  > get years of pleasure out of imaging with this setup. The
                  > small pixels of modern DSLRs mean that even Messier galaxies
                  > are fun to image. Highly, highly recommended for the kind of
                  > budget you plan to work with. And probably the best bang for
                  > the buck, overall, for a high-quality fast widefield
                  > system.
                  > >>
                  > >> Ron Wodaski
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >> On May 14, 2012, at 3:15 PM, Mountain Master
                  > wrote:
                  > >>
                  > >>> I'd like to get some thoughts on a new
                  > >>> 'scope and camera please..I am "graduating from
                  > old
                  > >>> Newt and film!":-)
                  > >>>
                  > >>> I am mainly interested in deep space very flat,
                  > wide field
                  > >>> ccd photography and will not skimp on the ccd
                  > or DSLR...maybe
                  > >>> a quick planet look now and then to make sure
                  > Mars
                  > >>> has not been sucked in a black hole..
                  > >>>
                  > >>> f/4 would be great if I did not have to buy a
                  > Tak..(I hear
                  > >>> the service is terrible but collimation not
                  > that necessary??)
                  > >>> Would like to play Hubble so RC optics is what
                  > I am shooting
                  > >>> at this time.
                  > >>>
                  > >>> 8-10" range..12 if not out of sight
                  > $$$-wise...fL less than
                  > >>> a 1000mm and of course no coma or color
                  > issues...gps and
                  > >>> goto would be nice but mounts can take care of
                  > that probably.
                  > >>>
                  > >>> Thanks in advance for your thoughts...I think
                  > I've
                  > >>> eliminated Meade and Celestron f/10s unless
                  > someone
                  > >>> knows a way to nicely speed them up without
                  > issues..
                  > >>>
                  > >>> I know celestron sells a reducer to bring the
                  > clestron 10 to f8
                  > >>> and they say f2. Anyone have experience with
                  > that?
                  > >>>
                  > >>> I am up for homebrew mods like removing the
                  > obstruction in
                  > >>> the meade or edg to get to f2 and putting in a
                  > camera thing...but
                  > >>> I am not sure what color or coma that would
                  > introduce?
                  > >>>
                  > >>> Thanks in advance for your thoughts...I am
                  > sruggling between
                  > >>> $6000 for a Televue 110 OTA (f5.7) with all the
                  > levers and stuff,
                  > >>> Edge HD with Hyperstar 9.25" (f2.3??).
                  > >>>
                  > >>> And then a 8 or 16MP to do monochrome wth
                  > filters and
                  > >>> then a good solid Losmanny G-11 mount but
                  > doesnt the
                  > >>> declination motor get in the way??
                  > >>>
                  > >>>
                  > >>> Rich
                  > >>>>
                  > >>>> 510 five4one ooh8four1
                  > >>> De oppresso liber
                  > >>>
                  > ______________________________________________________________
                  > >>>
                  > >>>
                  > >>> ------------------------------------
                  > >>>
                  > >>>
                  > >>>
                  > >>>
                  > >>
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ------------------------------------
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >     ccd-newastro-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  >
                • Ron Wodaski
                  You can learn more about the Foundation here: http://blog.tzecmaun.org Right now, we have closed our smaller telescopes and are focusing on getting a one-meter
                  Message 8 of 12 , May 14, 2012
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                    You can learn more about the Foundation here:

                    http://blog.tzecmaun.org

                    Right now, we have closed our smaller telescopes and are focusing on getting a one-meter telescope operational.

                    The books are now out of print (I wrote them quite a while ago), but copies can be found. OPT for sure has some, and other astronomy retailers may have some left.

                    I may do a signing of some 'lost' copies of my first book this fall, but that's still up in the air. (I found a box of books hidden in the house.)

                    Ron Wodaski



                    On May 14, 2012, at 11:55 PM, Mountain Master wrote:

                    > Sweet!! :-) are you scheduling public viewing time>?
                    >
                    > and
                    >
                    > Is your book at bookstores --Barnes and Noble,, etc?
                    >
                    > De oppresso liber
                    > ______________________________________________________________
                    >
                    >
                    > --- On Mon, 5/14/12, Ron Wodaski <yahoo@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >> From: Ron Wodaski <yahoo@...>
                    >> Subject: Re: [ccd-newastro] Re: New gear??
                    >> To: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com
                    >> Date: Monday, May 14, 2012, 3:24 PM
                    >> Don't push it too far, or you'll end
                    >> up with a truly dream setup: an Astro-Phyiscs
                    >> Riccardi-Honders. <g> We have one in an observatory at
                    >> the foundation, and it's an incredible scope.
                    >>
                    >> Ron Wodaski
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> On May 14, 2012, at 3:49 PM, rjcalliger wrote:
                    >>
                    >>> Thanks much...looking to purchase your book BTW!! :-))
                    >>>
                    >>> Right on the budget..could push it to $14-$15K
                    >> easily...
                    >>>
                    >>> friend of mine at LLNL working on adaptive optics..now
                    >>> that is a sweet megamill budget!! LOL I spent years
                    >> there
                    >>> now going to spend the retirement!!
                    >>>
                    >>> Thanks again,
                    >>>
                    >>> Back at research,
                    >>>
                    >>> Rich
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>> --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com,
                    >> Ron Wodaski <yahoo@...> wrote:
                    >>>>
                    >>>> I could write a book with the details (hee hee) but
                    >> I've already done that. Allow me to cut to the chase. My
                    >> basic rules are:
                    >>>>
                    >>>> * Buy the best mount you can afford
                    >>>> * Put a decent optic on it
                    >>>> * Put a decent camera on that
                    >>>>
                    >>>> That's the recipe both for fun and for nice images
                    >> starting out.
                    >>>>
                    >>>> Assuming from your comments that you have about a
                    >> $10k budget, I would suggest the following as the most fun
                    >> you can have with astrophotography, while still buying rock
                    >> solid equipment and learning a lot:
                    >>>>
                    >>>> * Astro-Physics Mach-1 mount
                    >>>> * Takahashi E180 f/2.8 scope
                    >>>> * DSLR of your choice (60Da makes the most sense,
                    >> IMO)
                    >>>>
                    >>>> We use this setup (but with a slightly older Canon
                    >> camera) for our beginning students with the Tzec Maun
                    >> Foundation. Here's a 4-minute 2x2 image of the Horsehead:
                    >>>>
                    >>>> http://blog.tzecmaun.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/adminx-adj-HIP26756-CANON-240sec_2010-10-08_013419.jpg
                    >>>>
                    >>>> You can do better than that, of course, but you can
                    >> get years of pleasure out of imaging with this setup. The
                    >> small pixels of modern DSLRs mean that even Messier galaxies
                    >> are fun to image. Highly, highly recommended for the kind of
                    >> budget you plan to work with. And probably the best bang for
                    >> the buck, overall, for a high-quality fast widefield
                    >> system.
                    >>>>
                    >>>> Ron Wodaski
                    >>>>
                    >>>>
                    >>>>
                    >>>> On May 14, 2012, at 3:15 PM, Mountain Master
                    >> wrote:
                    >>>>
                    >>>>> I'd like to get some thoughts on a new
                    >>>>> 'scope and camera please..I am "graduating from
                    >> old
                    >>>>> Newt and film!":-)
                    >>>>>
                    >>>>> I am mainly interested in deep space very flat,
                    >> wide field
                    >>>>> ccd photography and will not skimp on the ccd
                    >> or DSLR...maybe
                    >>>>> a quick planet look now and then to make sure
                    >> Mars
                    >>>>> has not been sucked in a black hole..
                    >>>>>
                    >>>>> f/4 would be great if I did not have to buy a
                    >> Tak..(I hear
                    >>>>> the service is terrible but collimation not
                    >> that necessary??)
                    >>>>> Would like to play Hubble so RC optics is what
                    >> I am shooting
                    >>>>> at this time.
                    >>>>>
                    >>>>> 8-10" range..12 if not out of sight
                    >> $$$-wise...fL less than
                    >>>>> a 1000mm and of course no coma or color
                    >> issues...gps and
                    >>>>> goto would be nice but mounts can take care of
                    >> that probably.
                    >>>>>
                    >>>>> Thanks in advance for your thoughts...I think
                    >> I've
                    >>>>> eliminated Meade and Celestron f/10s unless
                    >> someone
                    >>>>> knows a way to nicely speed them up without
                    >> issues..
                    >>>>>
                    >>>>> I know celestron sells a reducer to bring the
                    >> clestron 10 to f8
                    >>>>> and they say f2. Anyone have experience with
                    >> that?
                    >>>>>
                    >>>>> I am up for homebrew mods like removing the
                    >> obstruction in
                    >>>>> the meade or edg to get to f2 and putting in a
                    >> camera thing...but
                    >>>>> I am not sure what color or coma that would
                    >> introduce?
                    >>>>>
                    >>>>> Thanks in advance for your thoughts...I am
                    >> sruggling between
                    >>>>> $6000 for a Televue 110 OTA (f5.7) with all the
                    >> levers and stuff,
                    >>>>> Edge HD with Hyperstar 9.25" (f2.3??).
                    >>>>>
                    >>>>> And then a 8 or 16MP to do monochrome wth
                    >> filters and
                    >>>>> then a good solid Losmanny G-11 mount but
                    >> doesnt the
                    >>>>> declination motor get in the way??
                    >>>>>
                    >>>>>
                    >>>>> Rich
                    >>>>>>
                    >>>>>> 510 five4one ooh8four1
                    >>>>> De oppresso liber
                    >>>>>
                    >> ______________________________________________________________
                    >>>>>
                    >>>>>
                    >>>>> ------------------------------------
                    >>>>>
                    >>>>>
                    >>>>>
                    >>>>>
                    >>>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>> ------------------------------------
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> ------------------------------------
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> ccd-newastro-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
                    >>
                    >>
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • echesak@flash.net
                    I know you mentioned RC, but have you given refractors a thought? Also, I ve owned 3 G11 s and loved each one. But the MachGTO that I have now is a far
                    Message 9 of 12 , May 15, 2012
                    • 0 Attachment
                      I know you mentioned RC, but have you given refractors a thought? Also, I've owned 3 G11's and loved each one. But the MachGTO that I have now is a far superior mount. If you're looking at the heavier scopes, I'd probably even consider an AP1200. Don't skimp on a mount!

                      IMHO, putting a DSLR on some of the scopes being discussed is a little underwhelming. If you're really planning to get into this deep (digital-wise), I'd highly recommend a Mono CCD with filter wheel. The 8300 CCD's are very popular, and priced well, but the 11K (full frame) and 16K CCD's have a much larger FOV and deeper wells.

                      I'm not sure about your comment of service on Tak's, TNR, here in Texas, is very responsive and will bend over backwards to help you.

                      I own the Takahashi FSQ-106ED and an FLI Microline 11K CCD riding on a Mach1GTO.

                      http://smu.gs/KcDoAD

                      These three are, IMO, the ultimate in widefield imaging. The Q is f5, 530mm with a huge, flat imaging circle & color corrected to 1000nm. I also use it with my Canon 7D for terrestrial shots.

                      Here are some examples of the field of view from my set-up. Great for nebula, not so great for Galaxies, since the FOV is fairly large.

                      Some Astro color:
                      http://smu.gs/Je4u15

                      Some Asrto Mono:
                      http://smu.gs/KcC5Sl

                      Birding through the Tak:
                      http://smu.gs/KcCKDd

                      Terrestrial through the Tak:
                      http://smu.gs/KcCV1u


                      There's my 2-cent's worth. Good luck,

                      Eric


                      --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, Mountain Master <rjcalliger@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > I'd like to get some thoughts on a new
                      > 'scope and camera please..I am "graduating from old
                      > Newt and film!":-)
                      >
                      > I am mainly interested in deep space very flat, wide field
                      > ccd photography and will not skimp on the ccd or DSLR...maybe
                      > a quick planet look now and then to make sure Mars
                      > has not been sucked in a black hole..
                      >
                      > f/4 would be great if I did not have to buy a Tak..(I hear
                      > the service is terrible but collimation not that necessary??)
                      > Would like to play Hubble so RC optics is what I am shooting
                      > at this time.
                      >
                      > 8-10" range..12 if not out of sight $$$-wise...fL less than
                      > a 1000mm and of course no coma or color issues...gps and
                      > goto would be nice but mounts can take care of that probably.
                      >
                      > Thanks in advance for your thoughts...I think I've
                      > eliminated Meade and Celestron f/10s unless someone
                      > knows a way to nicely speed them up without issues..
                      >
                      > I know celestron sells a reducer to bring the clestron 10 to f8
                      > and they say f2. Anyone have experience with that?
                      >
                      > I am up for homebrew mods like removing the obstruction in
                      > the meade or edg to get to f2 and putting in a camera thing...but
                      > I am not sure what color or coma that would introduce?
                      >
                      > Thanks in advance for your thoughts...I am sruggling between
                      > $6000 for a Televue 110 OTA (f5.7) with all the levers and stuff,
                      > Edge HD with Hyperstar 9.25" (f2.3??).
                      >
                      > And then a 8 or 16MP to do monochrome wth filters and
                      > then a good solid Losmanny G-11 mount but doesnt the
                      > declination motor get in the way??
                      >
                      >
                      > Rich
                      > >
                      > > 510 five4one ooh8four1
                      > De oppresso liber
                      > ______________________________________________________________
                      >
                    • Ron Wodaski
                      Ron Wodaski
                      Message 10 of 12 , May 15, 2012
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Ron Wodaski



                        On May 15, 2012, at 8:17 AM, echesak@... wrote:

                        > I know you mentioned RC, but have you given refractors a thought? Also, I've owned 3 G11's and loved each one. But the MachGTO that I have now is a far superior mount. If you're looking at the heavier scopes, I'd probably even consider an AP1200. Don't skimp on a mount!
                        >
                        > IMHO, putting a DSLR on some of the scopes being discussed is a little underwhelming. If you're really planning to get into this deep (digital-wise), I'd highly recommend a Mono CCD with filter wheel. The 8300 CCD's are very popular, and priced well, but the 11K (full frame) and 16K CCD's have a much larger FOV and deeper wells.
                        >
                        > I'm not sure about your comment of service on Tak's, TNR, here in Texas, is very responsive and will bend over backwards to help you.
                        >
                        > I own the Takahashi FSQ-106ED and an FLI Microline 11K CCD riding on a Mach1GTO.
                        >
                        > http://smu.gs/KcDoAD
                        >
                        > These three are, IMO, the ultimate in widefield imaging. The Q is f5, 530mm with a huge, flat imaging circle & color corrected to 1000nm. I also use it with my Canon 7D for terrestrial shots.
                        >
                        > Here are some examples of the field of view from my set-up. Great for nebula, not so great for Galaxies, since the FOV is fairly large.
                        >
                        > Some Astro color:
                        > http://smu.gs/Je4u15
                        >
                        > Some Asrto Mono:
                        > http://smu.gs/KcC5Sl
                        >
                        > Birding through the Tak:
                        > http://smu.gs/KcCKDd
                        >
                        > Terrestrial through the Tak:
                        > http://smu.gs/KcCV1u
                        >
                        >
                        > There's my 2-cent's worth. Good luck,
                        >
                        > Eric
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, Mountain Master <rjcalliger@...> wrote:
                        >>
                        >> I'd like to get some thoughts on a new
                        >> 'scope and camera please..I am "graduating from old
                        >> Newt and film!":-)
                        >>
                        >> I am mainly interested in deep space very flat, wide field
                        >> ccd photography and will not skimp on the ccd or DSLR...maybe
                        >> a quick planet look now and then to make sure Mars
                        >> has not been sucked in a black hole..
                        >>
                        >> f/4 would be great if I did not have to buy a Tak..(I hear
                        >> the service is terrible but collimation not that necessary??)
                        >> Would like to play Hubble so RC optics is what I am shooting
                        >> at this time.
                        >>
                        >> 8-10" range..12 if not out of sight $$$-wise...fL less than
                        >> a 1000mm and of course no coma or color issues...gps and
                        >> goto would be nice but mounts can take care of that probably.
                        >>
                        >> Thanks in advance for your thoughts...I think I've
                        >> eliminated Meade and Celestron f/10s unless someone
                        >> knows a way to nicely speed them up without issues..
                        >>
                        >> I know celestron sells a reducer to bring the clestron 10 to f8
                        >> and they say f2. Anyone have experience with that?
                        >>
                        >> I am up for homebrew mods like removing the obstruction in
                        >> the meade or edg to get to f2 and putting in a camera thing...but
                        >> I am not sure what color or coma that would introduce?
                        >>
                        >> Thanks in advance for your thoughts...I am sruggling between
                        >> $6000 for a Televue 110 OTA (f5.7) with all the levers and stuff,
                        >> Edge HD with Hyperstar 9.25" (f2.3??).
                        >>
                        >> And then a 8 or 16MP to do monochrome wth filters and
                        >> then a good solid Losmanny G-11 mount but doesnt the
                        >> declination motor get in the way??
                        >>
                        >>
                        >> Rich
                        >>>
                        >>> 510 five4one ooh8four1
                        >> De oppresso liber
                        >> ______________________________________________________________
                        >>
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ------------------------------------
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                      • Neil Fleming
                        I agree with Eric s comments.  On the assumption that you truly want, very flat wide-field photography , then an RC will not deliver that.  You re far
                        Message 11 of 12 , May 16, 2012
                        • 0 Attachment
                          I agree with Eric's comments.  On the assumption that you truly want, "very flat wide-field photography", then an RC will not deliver that.  You're far better off with either an FSQ 106 F/5.  You could go for a very specialized newt, with a dedicated flattenner, but you'll be talking major bucks, even more so for a Riccardi Honders which is a real light cannon.
                           
                          The FSQ is very easy to use, and requires no collimation or fiddling.  The relative lack of aperture can certainly be overcome with extending the amount of data you collect, and there is no difference in final resolution given the pixel scale at which you'll be imaging.  The 8300-based cameras would come best to matching the focal length for wide-field imaging.
                           
                          Like Eric, here are some examples.  There are certainly not my most recent work, but are still decent:
                          http://www.flemingastrophotography.com/ic1805.html
                          http://www.flemingastrophotography.com/ic1396.html
                          http://www.flemingastrophotography.com/ngc7000.html
                           
                             Cheers...Neil

                          www.flemingastrophotography.com 
                          Direct from Boston - brilliant diamonds in pea soup
                          Also check out the astro_narrowbandYahoo group!


                          >________________________________
                          >  On May 15, 2012, at 8:17 AM, echesak@... wrote:
                          >
                          >> I know you mentioned RC, but have you given refractors a thought?  Also, I've owned 3 G11's and loved each one.  But the MachGTO that I have now is a far superior mount.  If you're looking at the heavier scopes, I'd probably even consider an AP1200.  Don't skimp on a mount! 
                          >>
                          >> IMHO, putting a DSLR on some of the scopes being discussed is a little underwhelming.  If you're really planning to get into this deep (digital-wise), I'd highly recommend a Mono CCD with filter wheel. The 8300 CCD's are very popular, and priced well, but the 11K (full frame) and 16K CCD's have a much larger FOV and deeper wells.
                          >>
                          >> I'm not sure about your comment of service on Tak's,  TNR, here in Texas, is very responsive and will bend over backwards to help you.
                          >>
                          >> I own the Takahashi FSQ-106ED and an FLI Microline 11K CCD riding on a Mach1GTO. 
                          >>
                          >> http://smu.gs/KcDoAD
                          >>
                          >> These three are, IMO, the ultimate in widefield imaging. The Q is f5, 530mm with a huge, flat imaging circle & color corrected to 1000nm.  I also use it with my Canon 7D for terrestrial shots. 
                          >>
                          >> Here are some examples of the field of view from my set-up.  Great for nebula, not so great for Galaxies, since the FOV is fairly large.
                          >>
                          >> Some Astro color:
                          >> http://smu.gs/Je4u15
                          >>
                          >> Some Asrto Mono:
                          >> http://smu.gs/KcC5Sl
                          >>
                          >> Birding through the Tak:
                          >> http://smu.gs/KcCKDd
                          >>
                          >> Terrestrial through the Tak:
                          >> http://smu.gs/KcCV1u
                          >>
                          >>
                          >> There's my 2-cent's worth.  Good luck,
                          >>
                          >> Eric
                          >>
                          >>
                          >> --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, Mountain Master <rjcalliger@...> wrote:
                          >>>
                          >>> I'd like to get some thoughts on a new
                          >>> 'scope and camera please..I am "graduating from old
                          >>> Newt and film!":-)
                          >>>
                          >>> I am mainly interested in deep space very flat, wide field
                          >>> ccd photography and will not skimp on the ccd or DSLR...maybe
                          >>> a quick planet look now and then to make sure Mars
                          >>> has not been sucked in a black hole..
                          >>>
                          >>> f/4 would be great if I did not have to buy a Tak..(I hear
                          >>> the service is terrible but collimation not that necessary??)
                          >>> Would like to play Hubble so RC optics is what I am shooting
                          >>> at this time.
                          >>>
                          >>> 8-10" range..12 if not out of sight $$$-wise...fL less than
                          >>> a 1000mm and of course no coma or color issues...gps and
                          >>> goto would be nice but mounts can take care of that probably.
                          >>>
                          >>> Thanks in advance for your thoughts...I think I've
                          >>> eliminated Meade and Celestron f/10s unless someone
                          >>> knows a way to nicely speed them up without issues..
                          >>>
                          >>> I know celestron sells a reducer to bring the clestron 10 to f8
                          >>> and they say f2. Anyone have experience with that?
                          >>>
                          >>> I am up for homebrew mods like removing the obstruction in
                          >>> the meade or edg to get to f2 and putting in a camera thing...but
                          >>> I am not sure what color or coma that would introduce?
                          >>>
                          >>> Thanks in advance for your thoughts...I am sruggling between
                          >>> $6000 for a Televue 110 OTA (f5.7) with all the levers and stuff,
                          >>> Edge HD with Hyperstar 9.25" (f2.3??).
                          >>>
                          >>> And then a 8 or 16MP to do monochrome wth filters and
                          >>> then a good solid Losmanny G-11 mount but doesnt the
                          >>> declination motor get in the way??
                          >>>
                          >>>
                          >>> Rich
                          >>>>
                          >>>> 510 five4one ooh8four1
                          >>> De oppresso liber
                          >>> ______________________________________________________________
                          >>>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >> ------------------------------------
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >------------------------------------
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Ron Wodaski
                          I like your suggestion, Neil. I personally prefer the E180, but have also done extensive imaging with the FSQ and it s a sweet instrument. The lack of any need
                          Message 12 of 12 , May 16, 2012
                          • 0 Attachment
                            I like your suggestion, Neil. I personally prefer the E180, but have also done extensive imaging with the FSQ and it's a sweet instrument. The lack of any need for collimation would be an important consideration to weigh.

                            Ron Wodaski



                            On May 16, 2012, at 3:06 PM, Neil Fleming wrote:

                            > I agree with Eric's comments. On the assumption that you truly want, "very flat wide-field photography", then an RC will not deliver that. You're far better off with either an FSQ 106 F/5. You could go for a very specialized newt, with a dedicated flattenner, but you'll be talking major bucks, even more so for a Riccardi Honders which is a real light cannon.
                            >
                            > The FSQ is very easy to use, and requires no collimation or fiddling. The relative lack of aperture can certainly be overcome with extending the amount of data you collect, and there is no difference in final resolution given the pixel scale at which you'll be imaging. The 8300-based cameras would come best to matching the focal length for wide-field imaging.
                            >
                            > Like Eric, here are some examples. There are certainly not my most recent work, but are still decent:
                            > http://www.flemingastrophotography.com/ic1805.html
                            > http://www.flemingastrophotography.com/ic1396.html
                            > http://www.flemingastrophotography.com/ngc7000.html
                            >
                            > Cheers...Neil
                            >
                            > www.flemingastrophotography.com
                            > Direct from Boston - brilliant diamonds in pea soup
                            > Also check out the astro_narrowbandYahoo group!
                            >
                            >
                            >> ________________________________
                            >> On May 15, 2012, at 8:17 AM, echesak@... wrote:
                            >>
                            >>> I know you mentioned RC, but have you given refractors a thought? Also, I've owned 3 G11's and loved each one. But the MachGTO that I have now is a far superior mount. If you're looking at the heavier scopes, I'd probably even consider an AP1200. Don't skimp on a mount!
                            >>>
                            >>> IMHO, putting a DSLR on some of the scopes being discussed is a little underwhelming. If you're really planning to get into this deep (digital-wise), I'd highly recommend a Mono CCD with filter wheel. The 8300 CCD's are very popular, and priced well, but the 11K (full frame) and 16K CCD's have a much larger FOV and deeper wells.
                            >>>
                            >>> I'm not sure about your comment of service on Tak's, TNR, here in Texas, is very responsive and will bend over backwards to help you.
                            >>>
                            >>> I own the Takahashi FSQ-106ED and an FLI Microline 11K CCD riding on a Mach1GTO.
                            >>>
                            >>> http://smu.gs/KcDoAD
                            >>>
                            >>> These three are, IMO, the ultimate in widefield imaging. The Q is f5, 530mm with a huge, flat imaging circle & color corrected to 1000nm. I also use it with my Canon 7D for terrestrial shots.
                            >>>
                            >>> Here are some examples of the field of view from my set-up. Great for nebula, not so great for Galaxies, since the FOV is fairly large.
                            >>>
                            >>> Some Astro color:
                            >>> http://smu.gs/Je4u15
                            >>>
                            >>> Some Asrto Mono:
                            >>> http://smu.gs/KcC5Sl
                            >>>
                            >>> Birding through the Tak:
                            >>> http://smu.gs/KcCKDd
                            >>>
                            >>> Terrestrial through the Tak:
                            >>> http://smu.gs/KcCV1u
                            >>>
                            >>>
                            >>> There's my 2-cent's worth. Good luck,
                            >>>
                            >>> Eric
                            >>>
                            >>>
                            >>> --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, Mountain Master <rjcalliger@...> wrote:
                            >>>>
                            >>>> I'd like to get some thoughts on a new
                            >>>> 'scope and camera please..I am "graduating from old
                            >>>> Newt and film!":-)
                            >>>>
                            >>>> I am mainly interested in deep space very flat, wide field
                            >>>> ccd photography and will not skimp on the ccd or DSLR...maybe
                            >>>> a quick planet look now and then to make sure Mars
                            >>>> has not been sucked in a black hole..
                            >>>>
                            >>>> f/4 would be great if I did not have to buy a Tak..(I hear
                            >>>> the service is terrible but collimation not that necessary??)
                            >>>> Would like to play Hubble so RC optics is what I am shooting
                            >>>> at this time.
                            >>>>
                            >>>> 8-10" range..12 if not out of sight $$$-wise...fL less than
                            >>>> a 1000mm and of course no coma or color issues...gps and
                            >>>> goto would be nice but mounts can take care of that probably.
                            >>>>
                            >>>> Thanks in advance for your thoughts...I think I've
                            >>>> eliminated Meade and Celestron f/10s unless someone
                            >>>> knows a way to nicely speed them up without issues..
                            >>>>
                            >>>> I know celestron sells a reducer to bring the clestron 10 to f8
                            >>>> and they say f2. Anyone have experience with that?
                            >>>>
                            >>>> I am up for homebrew mods like removing the obstruction in
                            >>>> the meade or edg to get to f2 and putting in a camera thing...but
                            >>>> I am not sure what color or coma that would introduce?
                            >>>>
                            >>>> Thanks in advance for your thoughts...I am sruggling between
                            >>>> $6000 for a Televue 110 OTA (f5.7) with all the levers and stuff,
                            >>>> Edge HD with Hyperstar 9.25" (f2.3??).
                            >>>>
                            >>>> And then a 8 or 16MP to do monochrome wth filters and
                            >>>> then a good solid Losmanny G-11 mount but doesnt the
                            >>>> declination motor get in the way??
                            >>>>
                            >>>>
                            >>>> Rich
                            >>>>>
                            >>>>> 510 five4one ooh8four1
                            >>>> De oppresso liber
                            >>>> ______________________________________________________________
                            >>>>
                            >>>
                            >>>
                            >>>
                            >>>
                            >>> ------------------------------------
                            >>>
                            >>>
                            >>>
                            >>>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >> ------------------------------------
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ------------------------------------
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
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