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Re: Color data and binning

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  • Stan
    ... Go for it! Should work well. Assign the mono camera to the superior scope (larger aperture and/or longer FL). ... No. Binning an OSC results in a crappy
    Message 1 of 21 , Apr 1, 2012
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      --- "gjwcac" <trimil@...> wrote:
      > I'm considering going to a dual scope ... QSI mono camera
      > ... and a Celestron Nightscape OSC...

      Go for it! Should work well. Assign the mono camera to the superior scope (larger aperture and/or longer FL).

      > Binning the OSC 2x2 will give me simultaneous RGB data

      No. Binning an OSC results in a crappy monochrome image. The Bayer matrix cannot retain color when binned because the 4 color pixels are comingled into a single virtual "bin pixel". To understan how "OSC" works, see
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayer_filter

      Stan
    • Hemant Hariyani
      Thanks for the thread and for all the information provided. Lots to learn for a newbie like me. I got my SBIG ST8300M recently. For my AT6RC, all my exposures
      Message 2 of 21 , Apr 1, 2012
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        Thanks for the thread and for all the information provided. Lots to learn
        for a newbie like me.

        I got my SBIG ST8300M recently. For my AT6RC, all my exposures are 2x2
        binned. Can I keep 2x2 for L and use 3x3 binning for RGB? Most of my
        imaging is done from pretty much the heart of DFW area and light pollution
        is extreme.

        Regards
        Hemant

        On Sat, Mar 31, 2012 at 11:02 AM, Stan <stan_ccd@...> wrote:

        > **
        >
        >
        > --- "gjwcac" <trimil@...> wrote:
        > > It's often stated that color data can be captured with
        > > 2x2 binning and then combinrd with a luminance...
        >
        > > Other than better Qe, are there advantages for imaging
        > > with a monochrome sensor and RGB filters versus using
        > > a OSC sensor to capture the color channels?
        >
        > "Other than better QE, are there advantages" is like saying "other than
        > making more money, are there advantages ..." <g>
        >
        > You question presuppose that the Lum will be taken with a non-OSC (mono)
        > camera and asks if there are significant differences between mono filtered
        > RGB and Bayer (OSC). Here are two differences (there are more):
        >
        > 1) Binning a mono-CCD reduces read noise. Read noise is usually
        > significant for filtered exps, because the filter removes sky-glow and thus
        > impedes the ability to take "sky limited" exps. Bayer/OSC CCD cannot be
        > binned and still retain color information.
        >
        > 2) Bayer/OSC only has particular filters and filter ratios that are not
        > optimal for astronomy. For example, there are 2 green pixels for every red
        > pixel but for most nebula, red is a more important astro-color than is
        > green. The transmission curves of Bayer filters are significantly different
        > than the transmissions of astro-optimized filters.
        >
        > These effects conspire to lower the effective QE of OSC compared to
        > mono-filtered RGB. So if you want inferior effective QE (less money <g>)
        > then OSC is the ticket!
        >
        > In some ways, OSC is "less complicated" to a casual user, though it is
        > actually more complicated under the hood. The complications can be hidden
        > by black-box software and ignored by a casual user.
        >
        > I doubt that buying an OSC for LRGB coloration is less expensive than
        > getting a filter-wheel for the mono camera. If you use simultaneous dual or
        > twin scopes and assign the superior scope to mono-Lum and the lesser scope
        > to coloration data, then maybe you could save a little money on the camera
        > equipment by using OSC on the coloration scope; but if you are running a
        > rig like that then that amount of money is probably irrelevant.
        >
        > Stan
        >
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Michael Miller
        You might want to learn narrowband trying to image from a big city Michael D Miller CEO VP Services ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        Message 3 of 21 , Apr 1, 2012
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          You might want to learn narrowband trying to image from a big city

          Michael D Miller
          CEO VP Services


          On Apr 1, 2012, at 11:27 AM, Hemant Hariyani <hemanthariyani@...> wrote:

          > Thanks for the thread and for all the information provided. Lots to learn
          > for a newbie like me.
          >
          > I got my SBIG ST8300M recently. For my AT6RC, all my exposures are 2x2
          > binned. Can I keep 2x2 for L and use 3x3 binning for RGB? Most of my
          > imaging is done from pretty much the heart of DFW area and light pollution
          > is extreme.
          >
          > Regards
          > Hemant
          >
          > On Sat, Mar 31, 2012 at 11:02 AM, Stan <stan_ccd@...> wrote:
          >
          > > **
          > >
          > >
          > > --- "gjwcac" <trimil@...> wrote:
          > > > It's often stated that color data can be captured with
          > > > 2x2 binning and then combinrd with a luminance...
          > >
          > > > Other than better Qe, are there advantages for imaging
          > > > with a monochrome sensor and RGB filters versus using
          > > > a OSC sensor to capture the color channels?
          > >
          > > "Other than better QE, are there advantages" is like saying "other than
          > > making more money, are there advantages ..." <g>
          > >
          > > You question presuppose that the Lum will be taken with a non-OSC (mono)
          > > camera and asks if there are significant differences between mono filtered
          > > RGB and Bayer (OSC). Here are two differences (there are more):
          > >
          > > 1) Binning a mono-CCD reduces read noise. Read noise is usually
          > > significant for filtered exps, because the filter removes sky-glow and thus
          > > impedes the ability to take "sky limited" exps. Bayer/OSC CCD cannot be
          > > binned and still retain color information.
          > >
          > > 2) Bayer/OSC only has particular filters and filter ratios that are not
          > > optimal for astronomy. For example, there are 2 green pixels for every red
          > > pixel but for most nebula, red is a more important astro-color than is
          > > green. The transmission curves of Bayer filters are significantly different
          > > than the transmissions of astro-optimized filters.
          > >
          > > These effects conspire to lower the effective QE of OSC compared to
          > > mono-filtered RGB. So if you want inferior effective QE (less money <g>)
          > > then OSC is the ticket!
          > >
          > > In some ways, OSC is "less complicated" to a casual user, though it is
          > > actually more complicated under the hood. The complications can be hidden
          > > by black-box software and ignored by a casual user.
          > >
          > > I doubt that buying an OSC for LRGB coloration is less expensive than
          > > getting a filter-wheel for the mono camera. If you use simultaneous dual or
          > > twin scopes and assign the superior scope to mono-Lum and the lesser scope
          > > to coloration data, then maybe you could save a little money on the camera
          > > equipment by using OSC on the coloration scope; but if you are running a
          > > rig like that then that amount of money is probably irrelevant.
          > >
          > > Stan
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Stan
          ... There is probably little benefit from binning, assuming f-ratio is not too slow and the sub-exp times are not too short. Bright sky glow can bury
          Message 4 of 21 , Apr 1, 2012
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            --- Hemant Hariyani <hemanthariyani@...> wrote:
            > Can I keep 2x2 for L and use 3x3 binning for RGB?
            > ... light pollution is extreme.

            There is probably little benefit from binning, assuming f-ratio is not too slow and the sub-exp times are not too short. Bright sky glow can bury read-noise to the extent that it becomes irrelevent (because noise adds quadratically).

            I would not bin the Lum because it takes in lots of sky glow and binning can degrade resolution.

            Binning the coloration data 2x2 is probably beneficial. Experiment.

            Stan
          • Hemant Hariyani
            Hello Stan, Thanks a lot. I was binning lum to match pixel size and focal length of the scope. But as you mentioned, sky glow is really bad. I ll try not
            Message 5 of 21 , Apr 1, 2012
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              Hello Stan,

              Thanks a lot. I was binning lum to match pixel size and focal length of the
              scope. But as you mentioned, sky glow is really bad. I'll try not binning
              lum and see how that works.

              Regards
              Hemant


              On Sun, Apr 1, 2012 at 3:00 PM, Stan <stan_ccd@...> wrote:

              > **
              >
              >
              > --- Hemant Hariyani <hemanthariyani@...> wrote:
              > > Can I keep 2x2 for L and use 3x3 binning for RGB?
              > > ... light pollution is extreme.
              >
              > There is probably little benefit from binning, assuming f-ratio is not too
              > slow and the sub-exp times are not too short. Bright sky glow can bury
              > read-noise to the extent that it becomes irrelevent (because noise adds
              > quadratically).
              >
              > I would not bin the Lum because it takes in lots of sky glow and binning
              > can degrade resolution.
              >
              > Binning the coloration data 2x2 is probably beneficial. Experiment.
              >
              > Stan
              >
              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Hemant Hariyani
              Hello Michael, Yes, I do intend to go narrowband and I have the setup ready. It is just that I wanted to try some galaxies :) Regards Hemant ... [Non-text
              Message 6 of 21 , Apr 1, 2012
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                Hello Michael,

                Yes, I do intend to go narrowband and I have the setup ready. It is just
                that I wanted to try some galaxies :)

                Regards
                Hemant


                On Sun, Apr 1, 2012 at 2:44 PM, Michael Miller <circpro@...> wrote:

                > **
                >
                >
                > You might want to learn narrowband trying to image from a big city
                >
                >
                > Michael D Miller
                > CEO VP Services
                >
                > On Apr 1, 2012, at 11:27 AM, Hemant Hariyani <hemanthariyani@...>
                > wrote:
                >
                > > Thanks for the thread and for all the information provided. Lots to learn
                > > for a newbie like me.
                > >
                > > I got my SBIG ST8300M recently. For my AT6RC, all my exposures are 2x2
                > > binned. Can I keep 2x2 for L and use 3x3 binning for RGB? Most of my
                > > imaging is done from pretty much the heart of DFW area and light
                > pollution
                > > is extreme.
                > >
                > > Regards
                > > Hemant
                > >
                > > On Sat, Mar 31, 2012 at 11:02 AM, Stan <stan_ccd@...> wrote:
                > >
                > > > **
                >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > --- "gjwcac" <trimil@...> wrote:
                > > > > It's often stated that color data can be captured with
                > > > > 2x2 binning and then combinrd with a luminance...
                > > >
                > > > > Other than better Qe, are there advantages for imaging
                > > > > with a monochrome sensor and RGB filters versus using
                > > > > a OSC sensor to capture the color channels?
                > > >
                > > > "Other than better QE, are there advantages" is like saying "other than
                > > > making more money, are there advantages ..." <g>
                > > >
                > > > You question presuppose that the Lum will be taken with a non-OSC
                > (mono)
                > > > camera and asks if there are significant differences between mono
                > filtered
                > > > RGB and Bayer (OSC). Here are two differences (there are more):
                > > >
                > > > 1) Binning a mono-CCD reduces read noise. Read noise is usually
                > > > significant for filtered exps, because the filter removes sky-glow and
                > thus
                > > > impedes the ability to take "sky limited" exps. Bayer/OSC CCD cannot be
                > > > binned and still retain color information.
                > > >
                > > > 2) Bayer/OSC only has particular filters and filter ratios that are not
                > > > optimal for astronomy. For example, there are 2 green pixels for every
                > red
                > > > pixel but for most nebula, red is a more important astro-color than is
                > > > green. The transmission curves of Bayer filters are significantly
                > different
                > > > than the transmissions of astro-optimized filters.
                > > >
                > > > These effects conspire to lower the effective QE of OSC compared to
                > > > mono-filtered RGB. So if you want inferior effective QE (less money
                > <g>)
                > > > then OSC is the ticket!
                > > >
                > > > In some ways, OSC is "less complicated" to a casual user, though it is
                > > > actually more complicated under the hood. The complications can be
                > hidden
                > > > by black-box software and ignored by a casual user.
                > > >
                > > > I doubt that buying an OSC for LRGB coloration is less expensive than
                > > > getting a filter-wheel for the mono camera. If you use simultaneous
                > dual or
                > > > twin scopes and assign the superior scope to mono-Lum and the lesser
                > scope
                > > > to coloration data, then maybe you could save a little money on the
                > camera
                > > > equipment by using OSC on the coloration scope; but if you are running
                > a
                > > > rig like that then that amount of money is probably irrelevant.
                > > >
                > > > Stan
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                > >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • runrob68876
                Regarding the use of data acquisiton with two scopes/CCD. Is it possible to run two programs of MaximDL/CCD simultaneously on the same computer? I know I
                Message 7 of 21 , Apr 1, 2012
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                  Regarding the use of data acquisiton with two scopes/CCD. Is it possible to run two programs of MaximDL/CCD simultaneously on the same computer? I know I should be asking the specific group but I have enough groups I belong to to keep me more than confulsed. Thank you for your insight to those who respond.

                  Bob R. www.pvao.us

                  --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Stan" <stan_ccd@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > --- "gjwcac" <trimil@> wrote:
                  > > I'm considering going to a dual scope ... QSI mono camera
                  > > ... and a Celestron Nightscape OSC...
                  >
                  > Go for it! Should work well. Assign the mono camera to the superior scope (larger aperture and/or longer FL).
                  >
                  > > Binning the OSC 2x2 will give me simultaneous RGB data
                  >
                  > No. Binning an OSC results in a crappy monochrome image. The Bayer matrix cannot retain color when binned because the 4 color pixels are comingled into a single virtual "bin pixel". To understan how "OSC" works, see
                  > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayer_filter
                  >
                  > Stan
                  >
                • gjwcac
                  Stan, The KAI-10100 sensor in the Nightscape camera allows progressive read outs, and color binning is supported at 2x2 and 4x4. With proper software support,
                  Message 8 of 21 , Apr 2, 2012
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                    Stan,

                    The KAI-10100 sensor in the Nightscape camera allows progressive read outs, and color binning is supported at 2x2 and 4x4. With proper software support, it really does "work", and the binned Bayered data are consistent with the full resolution images.

                    Jim M.


                    --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Stan" <stan_ccd@...> wrote:
                    > No. Binning an OSC results in a crappy monochrome image. The Bayer matrix cannot retain color when binned because the 4 color pixels are comingled into a single virtual "bin pixel". To understan how "OSC" works, see
                    > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayer_filter
                    >
                    > Stan
                    >
                  • gjwcac
                    Bob, The Maxim license says its use is limited to one computer at any given time. As I read it, that does not preclude running two instances of MaximDL on the
                    Message 9 of 21 , Apr 2, 2012
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                      Bob,

                      The Maxim license says its use is limited to one computer at any given time. As I read it, that does not preclude running two instances of MaximDL on the same computer. Whether or not that arrangement works in the real world with two separate imaging cameras and a guider, who knows?

                      So far in my experiments with two cameras, I've used CCDSoft and AstroFX. AstroFX (based on MiximDL) is still very buggy and crashes at the drop of a hat. I do know that CCDSoft does not like any competition when downloading a sub, and when both the QSI and Nightscape cameras queued downloads at the same time, timeout errors occurred. Perhaps two instances of Maxim would play nice and share the USB bandwidth better, but I haven't tried it.

                      Jim M.

                      --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "runrob68876" <runrob@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Regarding the use of data acquisiton with two scopes/CCD. Is it possible to run two programs of MaximDL/CCD simultaneously on the same computer? I know I should be asking the specific group but I have enough groups I belong to to keep me more than confulsed. Thank you for your insight to those who respond.
                      >
                      > Bob R. www.pvao.us
                    • Bob Runyan
                      Unless I m missing something, I think I answered by own question. My CCD cameras are of the older parallel download version so it appears two separate
                      Message 10 of 21 , Apr 2, 2012
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                        Unless I'm missing something, I think I answered by own question. My CCD
                        cameras are of the older parallel download version so it appears two
                        separate computers will be necessary unless I'm missing something. Now I
                        need more space or time and money to upgrade.
                        Bob R.

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com] On
                        Behalf Of runrob68876
                        Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2012 5:20 PM
                        To: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [ccd-newastro] Re: Color data and binning

                        Regarding the use of data acquisiton with two scopes/CCD. Is it possible to
                        run two programs of MaximDL/CCD simultaneously on the same computer? I know
                        I should be asking the specific group but I have enough groups I belong to
                        to keep me more than confulsed. Thank you for your insight to those who
                        respond.

                        Bob R. www.pvao.us

                        --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Stan" <stan_ccd@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > --- "gjwcac" <trimil@> wrote:
                        > > I'm considering going to a dual scope ... QSI mono camera ... and a
                        > > Celestron Nightscape OSC...
                        >
                        > Go for it! Should work well. Assign the mono camera to the superior scope
                        (larger aperture and/or longer FL).
                        >
                        > > Binning the OSC 2x2 will give me simultaneous RGB data
                        >
                        > No. Binning an OSC results in a crappy monochrome image. The Bayer
                        > matrix cannot retain color when binned because the 4 color pixels are
                        > comingled into a single virtual "bin pixel". To understan how "OSC"
                        > works, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayer_filter
                        >
                        > Stan
                        >




                        ------------------------------------
                      • Stan
                        ... Indeed. That unique CCD uses a special 4 field read method that interleaves the pixel circuits so that non-neighbor pixels can be binned. It is a fairly
                        Message 11 of 21 , Apr 3, 2012
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                          --- "gjwcac" <trimil@...> wrote:
                          > The KAI-10100 sensor in the Nightscape camera allows progressive
                          > read outs, and color binning is supported...

                          Indeed. That unique CCD uses a special 4 field read method that interleaves the pixel circuits so that non-neighbor pixels can be binned. It is a fairly new device and I didn't realize it had already been incorporated into an astro-camera.

                          Stan
                        • phils67
                          The original PC specification, still followed by modern PCs, was set up to support two parallel printers. You may be able to locate a bus card that supports
                          Message 12 of 21 , Apr 3, 2012
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                            The original PC specification, still followed by modern PCs, was set up to support two parallel printers. You may be able to locate a bus card that supports both printer ports which would allow you to run two cameras from one computer.

                            Phil

                            --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Runyan" <runrob@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Unless I'm missing something, I think I answered by own question. My CCD
                            > cameras are of the older parallel download version so it appears two
                            > separate computers will be necessary unless I'm missing something. Now I
                            > need more space or time and money to upgrade.
                            > Bob R.
                            >
                            > -----Original Message-----
                            > From: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com] On
                            > Behalf Of runrob68876
                            > Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2012 5:20 PM
                            > To: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com
                            > Subject: [ccd-newastro] Re: Color data and binning
                            >
                            > Regarding the use of data acquisiton with two scopes/CCD. Is it possible to
                            > run two programs of MaximDL/CCD simultaneously on the same computer? I know
                            > I should be asking the specific group but I have enough groups I belong to
                            > to keep me more than confulsed. Thank you for your insight to those who
                            > respond.
                            >
                            > Bob R. www.pvao.us
                            >
                            > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Stan" <stan_ccd@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > --- "gjwcac" <trimil@> wrote:
                            > > > I'm considering going to a dual scope ... QSI mono camera ... and a
                            > > > Celestron Nightscape OSC...
                            > >
                            > > Go for it! Should work well. Assign the mono camera to the superior scope
                            > (larger aperture and/or longer FL).
                            > >
                            > > > Binning the OSC 2x2 will give me simultaneous RGB data
                            > >
                            > > No. Binning an OSC results in a crappy monochrome image. The Bayer
                            > > matrix cannot retain color when binned because the 4 color pixels are
                            > > comingled into a single virtual "bin pixel". To understan how "OSC"
                            > > works, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayer_filter
                            > >
                            > > Stan
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ------------------------------------
                            >
                          • Bob Runyan
                            Thanks for your insight Phil: I may have to look into this further. Bob R. ... From: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com] On
                            Message 13 of 21 , Apr 3, 2012
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                              Thanks for your insight Phil: I may have to look into this further.
                              Bob R.

                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com] On
                              Behalf Of phils67
                              Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2012 1:32 PM
                              To: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: [ccd-newastro] Re: Color data and binning

                              The original PC specification, still followed by modern PCs, was set up to
                              support two parallel printers. You may be able to locate a bus card that
                              supports both printer ports which would allow you to run two cameras from
                              one computer.

                              Phil

                              --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Runyan" <runrob@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Unless I'm missing something, I think I answered by own question. My
                              > CCD cameras are of the older parallel download version so it appears
                              > two separate computers will be necessary unless I'm missing something.
                              Now I
                              > need more space or time and money to upgrade.
                              > Bob R.
                              >
                              > -----Original Message-----
                              > From: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com
                              > [mailto:ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of runrob68876
                              > Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2012 5:20 PM
                              > To: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com
                              > Subject: [ccd-newastro] Re: Color data and binning
                              >
                              > Regarding the use of data acquisiton with two scopes/CCD. Is it
                              > possible to run two programs of MaximDL/CCD simultaneously on the same
                              > computer? I know I should be asking the specific group but I have
                              > enough groups I belong to to keep me more than confulsed. Thank you
                              > for your insight to those who respond.
                              >
                              > Bob R. www.pvao.us
                              >
                              > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Stan" <stan_ccd@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > --- "gjwcac" <trimil@> wrote:
                              > > > I'm considering going to a dual scope ... QSI mono camera ... and
                              > > > a Celestron Nightscape OSC...
                              > >
                              > > Go for it! Should work well. Assign the mono camera to the superior
                              > > scope
                              > (larger aperture and/or longer FL).
                              > >
                              > > > Binning the OSC 2x2 will give me simultaneous RGB data
                              > >
                              > > No. Binning an OSC results in a crappy monochrome image. The Bayer
                              > > matrix cannot retain color when binned because the 4 color pixels
                              > > are comingled into a single virtual "bin pixel". To understan how "OSC"
                              > > works, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayer_filter
                              > >
                              > > Stan
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > ------------------------------------
                              >




                              ------------------------------------
                            • Stan
                              ... absolutely! The 120mm scope will produce superior resolution and superior object S/N so it is the clear choice for Lum. The 80mm is faster, which is useful
                              Message 14 of 21 , Apr 18, 2012
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                                --- "Bob Runyan" <runrob@...> wrote:
                                > f/7.5 120mm ED EON Refractor...
                                > f/5 80mm ED Refractor
                                > ... should do the color with the ED80

                                absolutely!

                                The 120mm scope will produce superior resolution and superior object S/N so it is the clear choice for Lum.

                                The 80mm is faster, which is useful for taking sky limited filtered exps.

                                The key to LRGB is that all the heavy lifting should be done by the Lum. The RGB component is mere pretty-pic coloration that need not be hi-res nor does it need especially high S/N because that data can be smoothed.

                                Stan
                              • Bob Runyan
                                I need some advice regarding my dual imaging setup. I have an f/7.5 120mm ED EON Refractor/ST8i/CFW8a CCD which is piggybacked by a f/5 80mm ED Refractor/ST8.
                                Message 15 of 21 , Apr 18, 2012
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                                  I need some advice regarding my dual imaging setup. I have an f/7.5 120mm
                                  ED EON Refractor/ST8i/CFW8a CCD which is piggybacked by a f/5 80mm ED
                                  Refractor/ST8. The scopes are autoguided using a 9x50/SSAG. I would like
                                  to take luminance 1x1 and bin my color 2x2. I can change camera/scope
                                  setups if I should do the color with the ED80 verses my present
                                  configuration. I would like your insight as to what configuration you would
                                  recommend and briefly your reasoning. I've been at this for a few years but
                                  still learning. CS Bob R.

                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com] On
                                  Behalf Of Bob Runyan
                                  Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2012 3:56 PM
                                  To: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: RE: [ccd-newastro] Re: Color data and binning

                                  Thanks for your insight Phil: I may have to look into this further.
                                  Bob R.

                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com] On
                                  Behalf Of phils67
                                  Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2012 1:32 PM
                                  To: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: [ccd-newastro] Re: Color data and binning

                                  The original PC specification, still followed by modern PCs, was set up to
                                  support two parallel printers. You may be able to locate a bus card that
                                  supports both printer ports which would allow you to run two cameras from
                                  one computer.

                                  Phil

                                  --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Runyan" <runrob@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Unless I'm missing something, I think I answered by own question. My
                                  > CCD cameras are of the older parallel download version so it appears
                                  > two separate computers will be necessary unless I'm missing something.
                                  Now I
                                  > need more space or time and money to upgrade.
                                  > Bob R.
                                  >
                                  > -----Original Message-----
                                  > From: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com
                                  > [mailto:ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of runrob68876
                                  > Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2012 5:20 PM
                                  > To: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Subject: [ccd-newastro] Re: Color data and binning
                                  >
                                  > Regarding the use of data acquisiton with two scopes/CCD. Is it
                                  > possible to run two programs of MaximDL/CCD simultaneously on the same
                                  > computer? I know I should be asking the specific group but I have
                                  > enough groups I belong to to keep me more than confulsed. Thank you
                                  > for your insight to those who respond.
                                  >
                                  > Bob R. www.pvao.us
                                  >
                                  > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Stan" <stan_ccd@> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > --- "gjwcac" <trimil@> wrote:
                                  > > > I'm considering going to a dual scope ... QSI mono camera ... and
                                  > > > a Celestron Nightscape OSC...
                                  > >
                                  > > Go for it! Should work well. Assign the mono camera to the superior
                                  > > scope
                                  > (larger aperture and/or longer FL).
                                  > >
                                  > > > Binning the OSC 2x2 will give me simultaneous RGB data
                                  > >
                                  > > No. Binning an OSC results in a crappy monochrome image. The Bayer
                                  > > matrix cannot retain color when binned because the 4 color pixels
                                  > > are comingled into a single virtual "bin pixel". To understan how "OSC"
                                  > > works, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayer_filter
                                  > >
                                  > > Stan
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > ------------------------------------
                                  >




                                  ------------------------------------






                                  ------------------------------------
                                • Bob Runyan
                                  Thanks for your insight Stan: It s good to know that my assumptions are on the same page as your thinking. Bob R. ... From: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Apr 18, 2012
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Thanks for your insight Stan: It's good to know that my assumptions are on
                                    the same page as your thinking.

                                    Bob R.

                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com] On
                                    Behalf Of Stan
                                    Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 8:31 AM
                                    To: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: [ccd-newastro] Re: Dual Scope Imaging

                                    --- "Bob Runyan" <runrob@...> wrote:
                                    > f/7.5 120mm ED EON Refractor...
                                    > f/5 80mm ED Refractor
                                    > ... should do the color with the ED80

                                    absolutely!

                                    The 120mm scope will produce superior resolution and superior object S/N so
                                    it is the clear choice for Lum.

                                    The 80mm is faster, which is useful for taking sky limited filtered exps.

                                    The key to LRGB is that all the heavy lifting should be done by the Lum. The
                                    RGB component is mere pretty-pic coloration that need not be hi-res nor does
                                    it need especially high S/N because that data can be smoothed.

                                    Stan



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