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Re: [ccd-newastro] Other dual chip cameras

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  • Sarel Wagner
    You are 100% correct of course, only ment the comment because of the patent on the dual chip design. The pick off in front of the filter mitigates the already
    Message 1 of 15 , Feb 3, 2009
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      You are 100% correct of course, only ment the comment because of the patent
      on the dual chip design. The pick off in front of the filter mitigates the
      already difficult task to select a bright enough guide star.

      Regards

      2009/2/3 Yahoo - Wodaski <yahoo@...>

      > >> this is as good as its going to get
      >
      > When, of course, it's the right solution to the right problem. <G> See
      > my earlier email.
      >
      > Since I'm not familiar with this unit, my questions would be:
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Douglas B. George
      ... Years ago one of SBIG s competitors showed me an engineering drawing from a professional observatory CCD camera, which had been in use for years. It had
      Message 2 of 15 , Feb 3, 2009
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        David B. Toth wrote:
        > At 02:09 PM 2/3/2009, Tom Picciani wrote:
        >> Question: Is there anyone other than SBIG that produces a cooled ccd
        >> dual chip camera?
        >>
        >> I'm surprised that every other mfg I've seen uses a single chip design.
        >
        > SBIG has a patent on this. THAT has slowed down the competition.

        Years ago one of SBIG's competitors showed me an engineering drawing from a
        professional observatory CCD camera, which had been in use for years. It had
        five CCDs - four imagers and one autoguider chip in a single housing. The
        drawing was dated a couple of years before SBIG filed for the patent. They
        considered battling it out but eventually decided not to pursue it.

        Doug

        -----------------------------------

        Doug George
        dgeorge@...

        Diffraction Limited
        Makers of Cyanogen Imaging Products
        http://www.cyanogen.com

        100 Craig Henry Dr., Suite 202
        Ottawa, Ontario,
        Canada, K2G 5W3

        Phone: (613) 225-2732
        Fax: (613) 225-9688

        -----------------------------------
      • Sarel Wagner
        Patents are something else! Patented a new way of displaying information, for interest sake look here: www.microafrica.co.za but that was just to claim the
        Message 3 of 15 , Feb 3, 2009
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          Patents are something else! Patented a new way of displaying information,
          for interest sake look here: www.microafrica.co.za but that was just to
          claim the inventory.
          You will need a mind shift to grasp this thing ;)

          Complicated regards

          Sarel Wagner

          2009/2/3 Douglas B. George <dg@...>

          >
          >
          > Years ago one of SBIG's competitors showed me an engineering drawing from a
          >
          > professional observatory CCD camera, which had been in use for years. It
          > had
          > five CCDs - four imagers and one autoguider chip in a single housing. The
          > drawing was dated a couple of years before SBIG filed for the patent. They
          > considered battling it out but eventually decided not to pursue it.
          >
          > Doug
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Yahoo - Wodaski
          I can t imagine a patent being granted for something that s been in video games for years. It may be that the guy just doesn t get around enough. My son
          Message 4 of 15 , Feb 3, 2009
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            I can't imagine a patent being granted for something that's been in
            video games for years. It may be that the guy just doesn't get around
            enough. <G> My son recently passed the patent attorney bar, and his
            technical description of situations like this is "prior art up the wazoo!"

            Anyway, this is off topic - let's get back to astronomy patents!

            Ron Wodaski



            Sarel Wagner wrote:
            > Patents are something else! Patented a new way of displaying information,
            > for interest sake look here: www.microafrica.co.za but that was just to
            > claim the inventory.
            > You will need a mind shift to grasp this thing ;)
            >
            > Complicated regards
            >
            > Sarel Wagner
            >
            > 2009/2/3 Douglas B. George <dg@...>
            >
            >
            >> Years ago one of SBIG's competitors showed me an engineering drawing from a
            >>
            >> professional observatory CCD camera, which had been in use for years. It
            >> had
            >> five CCDs - four imagers and one autoguider chip in a single housing. The
            >> drawing was dated a couple of years before SBIG filed for the patent. They
            >> considered battling it out but eventually decided not to pursue it.
            >>
            >> Doug
            >>
            >>
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Mike Dodd
            ... Keep in mind that the guide chip in SBIG cameras is mounted at a right-angle to the imaging chip, and the star light reaches it via a mirror. Maybe the
            Message 5 of 15 , Feb 3, 2009
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              > Years ago one of SBIG's competitors showed me an engineering drawing from a
              >
              > professional observatory CCD camera, which had been in use for years. It
              > had five CCDs - four imagers and one autoguider chip in a single housing. The
              > drawing was dated a couple of years before SBIG filed for the patent. They
              > considered battling it out but eventually decided not to pursue it.
              >
              > Doug

              Keep in mind that the guide chip in SBIG cameras is mounted at a
              right-angle to the imaging chip, and the star light reaches it via a
              mirror. Maybe the SBIG patent covers this design rather than the
              built-in guide chip itself.

              --
              Mike

              Mike Dodd
              Montpelier, VA USA
              http://astronomy.mdodd.com
            • Sarel Wagner
              It will take a clever way not to infringe on the particular patent. And as was said earlier, do you need an integral guider? Each camera/chip style has its own
              Message 6 of 15 , Feb 3, 2009
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                It will take a clever way not to infringe on the particular patent. And as
                was said earlier, do you need an integral guider? Each camera/chip style has
                its own problems, and so does each setup. It takes a lot of analyses to
                determine what problems you have, only then van you decide what technology
                will solve the issues.

                Regards

                2009/2/4 Mike Dodd <mike@...>

                > > Years ago one of SBIG's competitors showed me an engineering drawing
                > from a
                > >
                > > professional observatory CCD camera, which had been in use for years. It
                > > had five CCDs - four imagers and one autoguider chip in a single housing.
                > The
                > > drawing was dated a couple of years before SBIG filed for the patent.
                > They
                > > considered battling it out but eventually decided not to pursue it.
                > >
                > > Doug
                >
                > Keep in mind that the guide chip in SBIG cameras is mounted at a
                > right-angle to the imaging chip, and the star light reaches it via a
                > mirror. Maybe the SBIG patent covers this design rather than the
                > built-in guide chip itself.
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Roger Hamlett
                ... SBIG has the patent, on this. ... Seriously, SBIG, is quite cheap for the larger chip cameras, _when you look at the chip prices_. The problem is that
                Message 7 of 15 , Feb 4, 2009
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                  > Question: Is there anyone other than SBIG that produces a cooled ccd
                  > dual chip camera?
                  >
                  > I'm surprised that every other mfg I've seen uses a single chip
                  > design.
                  SBIG has the patent, on this.

                  > Not to say anything bad about SBIG (they have superior customer
                  > service and support) but a little competition would be good for
                  > the prices, which I find to be a little overwhelming. I've had
                  > my ST7XE for quite some time and while I'd like to go to a bigger
                  > camera, the cost is
                  > prohibitive.
                  Seriously, SBIG, is quite cheap for the larger chip cameras, _when you
                  look at the chip prices_. The problem is that large CCD's, are only
                  cheap, when mass produced. Think OSC chips only, and mainly aimed at
                  markets where a 10bit dynamic range would be 'high end'. Chips really
                  well suited to asto-imaging, are expensive.

                  Now, remember that a 'two chip' camera, is just a small OAG, built close
                  inside the front of the camera. With the availability now of things like
                  the Starlight 'Lodestar' guider, you can simply put a separate OAG, on
                  almost any main camera. Even better, you can use a really short OAG
                  assembly, and put it right in front of your filter wheel, and 'run rngs'
                  round the SBIG system.... Units like the MOAG, and the tiny short OAG
                  from Teleskop service
                  <http://www.telescope-service.com/accessories/start/accessoriesstart.html#TSOAG9>
                  work well.

                  Many SBIG users, actually don't use their 'dual chip', but add their
                  remote guide head, so that they can have the advantage of a guider in
                  front of the filters.

                  Best Wishes
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