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Re: New Member/Novice Astrophotographer Guiding question

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  • Robert D Phalon
    Thank you for your reply it shed some light on my issue. Would the focal reducer be in addition to or instead of the guidescope. Would the 20 sec exposure be
    Message 1 of 13 , Jun 4 1:02 PM
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      Thank you for your reply it shed some light on my issue. Would the
      focal reducer be in addition to or instead of the guidescope. Would
      the 20 sec exposure be with just the reducer? Again thank you for the
      advise. I think I could outfit my setup with the rings for the 60 I
      saw them on scopestuff for no too much $$$. Any direction on the
      Illuminated eyepeice? I was looking at the Orion about $70 or should
      I go with quality?

      Agin thank you for the insight!!!!

      Bob


      --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Ferreira" <bakerst@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > Bob, yeah; with the system you have right now, manual guiding is
      your
      > only option. There are undoubtedly some folks out there that have
      > modifited the drives on your Skyview Pro for autoguiding, but it
      may
      > not be a project you'd care to persue. Still, you might do some
      > surfing on the web and sign onto the Yahoo Orion Telescope forum.
      >
      > Acquiring a focal reducer will help reduce image scale and possibly
      > allow you to do slighly longer unguided exposures. There are lots
      of
      > folks out there working with similar setups doing 20 second
      exposures
      > and coming up with very respectable images of brighter Messier
      > objects. Unfortunately, going with a color camera will prove to be
      a
      > handicap as the color CCD is less sensitive than a comparable size
      > monochrome CCD. Basically, you need to shoot many more 20 second
      > exposures with the color camera than you would need for monochrome.
      >
      > Really tweaking out the drive and carefully balancing the system
      will
      > help. Then, of course, good polar alignment.
      >
      > I'd go with the small refractor as a guidescope rather than an off
      > axis guider. Orion sells guidescope rings and rails that will
      easily
      > attach to your present scope mounting rings.
      >
      > Good luck!
      > Jim
      > Livermore CA
      >
      >
      >
      > >
      > > My refractor is f/6.5 80mm WO APO 565mm focal length. I could
      > aquire
      > > another refractor from a friend, smaller 60 mm 700mm/FL f/11.7. I
      > > think my mount can handle all of them and track.
      > >
      > > As far as software "talking" to the mount that is another issue
      my
      > > Skyview Pro German equitorial is non goto. I'm starting to think
      > that
      > > the illuminated eyepeice-guider scope or off axis-guiders seems
      > like
      > > my only choices. Is it worth it to buy the reticle eyepeice and
      > > mounting hardware just to find out the inaquecies of my mount? Or
      > > should I stick to faster exposure photography planets. moon ect.?
      > >
      > > Thank you for your reply and help.
      > >
      > > bob
      > >
      >
    • Jim Ferreira
      My suggestion would be go with the focal reducer first, and really tune up the RA drive on your system and see what kind of results you can come up with using
      Message 2 of 13 , Jun 5 7:42 AM
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        My suggestion would be go with the focal reducer first, and really
        tune up the RA drive on your system and see what kind of results you
        can come up with using 15 or 20 second exposures. If it looks like
        the drive is reasonably accurate, with only modest periodic error,
        then you may want to pursue manual guiding.

        For manual guiding you'll need to look into how smoothly and how
        precisely your manual controls can be operated. Since they are
        intended for visual observing, they may move the scope too quickly
        when centering a star at the slowest settings, causing over shoot.

        Jim
        Livermore CA



        >
        > Thank you for your reply it shed some light on my issue. Would the
        > focal reducer be in addition to or instead of the guidescope. Would
        > the 20 sec exposure be with just the reducer? Again thank you for
        the
        > advise. I think I could outfit my setup with the rings for the 60 I
        > saw them on scopestuff for no too much $$$. Any direction on the
        > Illuminated eyepeice? I was looking at the Orion about $70 or
        should
        > I go with quality?
        >
        > Agin thank you for the insight!!!!
        >
        > Bob
        >
        >
        > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Ferreira" <bakerst@>
        > wrote:
        > >
        > > Bob, yeah; with the system you have right now, manual guiding is
        > your
        > > only option. There are undoubtedly some folks out there that
        have
        > > modifited the drives on your Skyview Pro for autoguiding, but it
        > may
        > > not be a project you'd care to persue. Still, you might do some
        > > surfing on the web and sign onto the Yahoo Orion Telescope forum.
        > >
        > > Acquiring a focal reducer will help reduce image scale and
        possibly
        > > allow you to do slighly longer unguided exposures. There are
        lots
        > of
        > > folks out there working with similar setups doing 20 second
        > exposures
        > > and coming up with very respectable images of brighter Messier
        > > objects. Unfortunately, going with a color camera will prove to
        be
        > a
        > > handicap as the color CCD is less sensitive than a comparable
        size
        > > monochrome CCD. Basically, you need to shoot many more 20 second
        > > exposures with the color camera than you would need for
        monochrome.
        > >
        > > Really tweaking out the drive and carefully balancing the system
        > will
        > > help. Then, of course, good polar alignment.
        > >
        > > I'd go with the small refractor as a guidescope rather than an
        off
        > > axis guider. Orion sells guidescope rings and rails that will
        > easily
        > > attach to your present scope mounting rings.
        > >
        > > Good luck!
        > > Jim
        > > Livermore CA
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > >
        > > > My refractor is f/6.5 80mm WO APO 565mm focal length. I could
        > > aquire
        > > > another refractor from a friend, smaller 60 mm 700mm/FL f/11.7.
        I
        > > > think my mount can handle all of them and track.
        > > >
        > > > As far as software "talking" to the mount that is another issue
        > my
        > > > Skyview Pro German equitorial is non goto. I'm starting to
        think
        > > that
        > > > the illuminated eyepeice-guider scope or off axis-guiders seems
        > > like
        > > > my only choices. Is it worth it to buy the reticle eyepeice and
        > > > mounting hardware just to find out the inaquecies of my mount?
        Or
        > > > should I stick to faster exposure photography planets. moon
        ect.?
        > > >
        > > > Thank you for your reply and help.
        > > >
        > > > bob
        > > >
        > >
        >
      • Robert D Phalon
        Awesome!!!! really good advise thank you very much. I apologize if I ask idiotic questions this is all rather new to me, thank you for your patience. The
        Message 3 of 13 , Jun 5 10:04 AM
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          Awesome!!!! really good advise thank you very much. I
          apologize if I ask idiotic questions this is all rather new to me,
          thank you for your patience. The manual controlling box has three
          rates for directional movement: 2x, 4x and 8x. I use the 8x for
          centering objects. In reading the manual; it advises that the 2x be
          used for astrophotography adjustments (being the slowest one). Any
          suggestions on tuning procedure for the RA drive.? My eyesight I
          would guess via an eypeice would not be accurate enough? Should I
          just get a star in the center and let the drive track away?
          I'm calling Orion Support to validat that the DC converter
          I'm looking into purchasing is a right fit, this will also negate my
          doubts on good batteries. I can ask them if there are any adjustments
          on the drives and more technical data on my scope.

          Thanks a bunch for all of the good info and support you
          have provided me on this endeavor. This is really a cool newsgroup
          with a great memebers. Clear Skies!

          Bob
          Hardyston NJ


          --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Ferreira" <bakerst@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > My suggestion would be go with the focal reducer first, and really
          > tune up the RA drive on your system and see what kind of results
          you
          > can come up with using 15 or 20 second exposures. If it looks like
          > the drive is reasonably accurate, with only modest periodic error,
          > then you may want to pursue manual guiding.
          >
          > For manual guiding you'll need to look into how smoothly and how
          > precisely your manual controls can be operated. Since they are
          > intended for visual observing, they may move the scope too quickly
          > when centering a star at the slowest settings, causing over shoot.
          >
          > Jim
          > Livermore CA
          >
          >
          >
          > >
          > > Thank you for your reply it shed some light on my issue. Would
          the
          > > focal reducer be in addition to or instead of the guidescope.
          Would
          > > the 20 sec exposure be with just the reducer? Again thank you for
          > the
          > > advise. I think I could outfit my setup with the rings for the 60
          I
          > > saw them on scopestuff for no too much $$$. Any direction on the
          > > Illuminated eyepeice? I was looking at the Orion about $70 or
          > should
          > > I go with quality?
          > >
          > > Agin thank you for the insight!!!!
          > >
          > > Bob
          > >
          > >
          > > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Ferreira" <bakerst@>
          > > wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Bob, yeah; with the system you have right now, manual guiding
          is
          > > your
          > > > only option. There are undoubtedly some folks out there that
          > have
          > > > modifited the drives on your Skyview Pro for autoguiding, but
          it
          > > may
          > > > not be a project you'd care to persue. Still, you might do
          some
          > > > surfing on the web and sign onto the Yahoo Orion Telescope
          forum.
          > > >
          > > > Acquiring a focal reducer will help reduce image scale and
          > possibly
          > > > allow you to do slighly longer unguided exposures. There are
          > lots
          > > of
          > > > folks out there working with similar setups doing 20 second
          > > exposures
          > > > and coming up with very respectable images of brighter Messier
          > > > objects. Unfortunately, going with a color camera will prove
          to
          > be
          > > a
          > > > handicap as the color CCD is less sensitive than a comparable
          > size
          > > > monochrome CCD. Basically, you need to shoot many more 20
          second
          > > > exposures with the color camera than you would need for
          > monochrome.
          > > >
          > > > Really tweaking out the drive and carefully balancing the
          system
          > > will
          > > > help. Then, of course, good polar alignment.
          > > >
          > > > I'd go with the small refractor as a guidescope rather than an
          > off
          > > > axis guider. Orion sells guidescope rings and rails that will
          > > easily
          > > > attach to your present scope mounting rings.
          > > >
          > > > Good luck!
          > > > Jim
          > > > Livermore CA
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > My refractor is f/6.5 80mm WO APO 565mm focal length. I could
          > > > aquire
          > > > > another refractor from a friend, smaller 60 mm 700mm/FL
          f/11.7.
          > I
          > > > > think my mount can handle all of them and track.
          > > > >
          > > > > As far as software "talking" to the mount that is another
          issue
          > > my
          > > > > Skyview Pro German equitorial is non goto. I'm starting to
          > think
          > > > that
          > > > > the illuminated eyepeice-guider scope or off axis-guiders
          seems
          > > > like
          > > > > my only choices. Is it worth it to buy the reticle eyepeice
          and
          > > > > mounting hardware just to find out the inaquecies of my
          mount?
          > Or
          > > > > should I stick to faster exposure photography planets. moon
          > ect.?
          > > > >
          > > > > Thank you for your reply and help.
          > > > >
          > > > > bob
          > > > >
          > > >
          > >
          >
        • Jim Ferreira
          As they say; there are no dumb questions... In tweaking the mount, you want to adjust gear and worm, and worm alignment, so there is no play, but not so snug
          Message 4 of 13 , Jun 6 12:17 PM
          • 0 Attachment
            As they say; there are no dumb questions...

            In tweaking the mount, you want to adjust gear and worm, and worm
            alignment, so there is no play, but not so snug that the worm/gear
            bind -- takes a bit of trial and error to find proper adjustment. Be
            sure the gear surfaces are clean and well lubricated. Doing some
            test shots will tell you if the mount is running smoothly.

            Polar alignment will be the next hurtle. The more accurate polar
            aignment, the fewer corrections needed in DEC while guiding. Polar
            scopes can be good, but you can't count on them to be accurate right
            out of the box. Again, lots of trial and error.

            As this discussion may be painfully basic to a good portion of this
            group, perhaps we should take further discussion off list.

            Bob, you can contact me at bakerst@... Always enjoys talking
            shop regarding CCD imaging with small scopes.

            Cheers,
            Jim
            Livermore CA
            http://www.lafterhall.com/ccd_imaging.html




            >
            > Awesome!!!! really good advise thank you very much. I
            > apologize if I ask idiotic questions this is all rather new to me,
            > thank you for your patience. The manual controlling box has three
            > rates for directional movement: 2x, 4x and 8x. I use the 8x for
            > centering objects. In reading the manual; it advises that the 2x be
            > used for astrophotography adjustments (being the slowest one). Any
            > suggestions on tuning procedure for the RA drive.? My eyesight I
            > would guess via an eypeice would not be accurate enough? Should I
            > just get a star in the center and let the drive track away?
            > I'm calling Orion Support to validat that the DC converter
            > I'm looking into purchasing is a right fit, this will also negate
            my
            > doubts on good batteries. I can ask them if there are any
            adjustments
            > on the drives and more technical data on my scope.
            >
            > Thanks a bunch for all of the good info and support you
            > have provided me on this endeavor. This is really a cool newsgroup
            > with a great memebers. Clear Skies!
            >
            > Bob
            > Hardyston NJ
            >
            >
            > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Ferreira" <bakerst@>
            > wrote:
            > >
            > > My suggestion would be go with the focal reducer first, and
            really
            > > tune up the RA drive on your system and see what kind of results
            > you
            > > can come up with using 15 or 20 second exposures. If it looks
            like
            > > the drive is reasonably accurate, with only modest periodic
            error,
            > > then you may want to pursue manual guiding.
            > >
            > > For manual guiding you'll need to look into how smoothly and how
            > > precisely your manual controls can be operated. Since they are
            > > intended for visual observing, they may move the scope too
            quickly
            > > when centering a star at the slowest settings, causing over shoot.
            > >
            > > Jim
            > > Livermore CA
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > >
            > > > Thank you for your reply it shed some light on my issue. Would
            > the
            > > > focal reducer be in addition to or instead of the guidescope.
            > Would
            > > > the 20 sec exposure be with just the reducer? Again thank you
            for
            > > the
            > > > advise. I think I could outfit my setup with the rings for the
            60
            > I
            > > > saw them on scopestuff for no too much $$$. Any direction on
            the
            > > > Illuminated eyepeice? I was looking at the Orion about $70 or
            > > should
            > > > I go with quality?
            > > >
            > > > Agin thank you for the insight!!!!
            > > >
            > > > Bob
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Ferreira" <bakerst@>
            > > > wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > > Bob, yeah; with the system you have right now, manual guiding
            > is
            > > > your
            > > > > only option. There are undoubtedly some folks out there that
            > > have
            > > > > modifited the drives on your Skyview Pro for autoguiding, but
            > it
            > > > may
            > > > > not be a project you'd care to persue. Still, you might do
            > some
            > > > > surfing on the web and sign onto the Yahoo Orion Telescope
            > forum.
            > > > >
            > > > > Acquiring a focal reducer will help reduce image scale and
            > > possibly
            > > > > allow you to do slighly longer unguided exposures. There are
            > > lots
            > > > of
            > > > > folks out there working with similar setups doing 20 second
            > > > exposures
            > > > > and coming up with very respectable images of brighter
            Messier
            > > > > objects. Unfortunately, going with a color camera will prove
            > to
            > > be
            > > > a
            > > > > handicap as the color CCD is less sensitive than a comparable
            > > size
            > > > > monochrome CCD. Basically, you need to shoot many more 20
            > second
            > > > > exposures with the color camera than you would need for
            > > monochrome.
            > > > >
            > > > > Really tweaking out the drive and carefully balancing the
            > system
            > > > will
            > > > > help. Then, of course, good polar alignment.
            > > > >
            > > > > I'd go with the small refractor as a guidescope rather than
            an
            > > off
            > > > > axis guider. Orion sells guidescope rings and rails that
            will
            > > > easily
            > > > > attach to your present scope mounting rings.
            > > > >
            > > > > Good luck!
            > > > > Jim
            > > > > Livermore CA
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > > My refractor is f/6.5 80mm WO APO 565mm focal length. I
            could
            > > > > aquire
            > > > > > another refractor from a friend, smaller 60 mm 700mm/FL
            > f/11.7.
            > > I
            > > > > > think my mount can handle all of them and track.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > As far as software "talking" to the mount that is another
            > issue
            > > > my
            > > > > > Skyview Pro German equitorial is non goto. I'm starting to
            > > think
            > > > > that
            > > > > > the illuminated eyepeice-guider scope or off axis-guiders
            > seems
            > > > > like
            > > > > > my only choices. Is it worth it to buy the reticle eyepeice
            > and
            > > > > > mounting hardware just to find out the inaquecies of my
            > mount?
            > > Or
            > > > > > should I stick to faster exposure photography planets. moon
            > > ect.?
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Thank you for your reply and help.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > bob
            > > > > >
            > > > >
            > > >
            > >
            >
          • Wodaski - Yahoo
            ... Please, keep the discussion here. We have LOTS of beginners who lurk, reading posts and learning as they go. This is the PERFECT place for a painfully
            Message 5 of 13 , Jun 6 12:34 PM
            • 0 Attachment
              >> As this discussion may be painfully basic...

              Please, keep the discussion here. We have LOTS of beginners who lurk,
              reading posts and learning as they go. This is the PERFECT place for a
              'painfully basic' discussion! Those who already know will either pitch in,
              or ignore.

              Ron Wodaski
              Group Moderator


              -----Original Message-----
              From: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com] On
              Behalf Of Jim Ferreira
              Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 1:17 PM
              To: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [ccd-newastro] Re: New Member/Novice Astrophotographer Guiding
              question

              As they say; there are no dumb questions...

              In tweaking the mount, you want to adjust gear and worm, and worm
              alignment, so there is no play, but not so snug that the worm/gear
              bind -- takes a bit of trial and error to find proper adjustment. Be
              sure the gear surfaces are clean and well lubricated. Doing some
              test shots will tell you if the mount is running smoothly.

              Polar alignment will be the next hurtle. The more accurate polar
              aignment, the fewer corrections needed in DEC while guiding. Polar
              scopes can be good, but you can't count on them to be accurate right
              out of the box. Again, lots of trial and error.

              As this discussion may be painfully basic to a good portion of this
              group, perhaps we should take further discussion off list.

              Bob, you can contact me at bakerst@... Always enjoys talking
              shop regarding CCD imaging with small scopes.

              Cheers,
              Jim
              Livermore CA
              http://www.lafterhall.com/ccd_imaging.html




              >
              > Awesome!!!! really good advise thank you very much. I
              > apologize if I ask idiotic questions this is all rather new to me,
              > thank you for your patience. The manual controlling box has three
              > rates for directional movement: 2x, 4x and 8x. I use the 8x for
              > centering objects. In reading the manual; it advises that the 2x be
              > used for astrophotography adjustments (being the slowest one). Any
              > suggestions on tuning procedure for the RA drive.? My eyesight I
              > would guess via an eypeice would not be accurate enough? Should I
              > just get a star in the center and let the drive track away?
              > I'm calling Orion Support to validat that the DC converter
              > I'm looking into purchasing is a right fit, this will also negate
              my
              > doubts on good batteries. I can ask them if there are any
              adjustments
              > on the drives and more technical data on my scope.
              >
              > Thanks a bunch for all of the good info and support you
              > have provided me on this endeavor. This is really a cool newsgroup
              > with a great memebers. Clear Skies!
              >
              > Bob
              > Hardyston NJ
              >
              >
              > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Ferreira" <bakerst@>
              > wrote:
              > >
              > > My suggestion would be go with the focal reducer first, and
              really
              > > tune up the RA drive on your system and see what kind of results
              > you
              > > can come up with using 15 or 20 second exposures. If it looks
              like
              > > the drive is reasonably accurate, with only modest periodic
              error,
              > > then you may want to pursue manual guiding.
              > >
              > > For manual guiding you'll need to look into how smoothly and how
              > > precisely your manual controls can be operated. Since they are
              > > intended for visual observing, they may move the scope too
              quickly
              > > when centering a star at the slowest settings, causing over shoot.
              > >
              > > Jim
              > > Livermore CA
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > >
              > > > Thank you for your reply it shed some light on my issue. Would
              > the
              > > > focal reducer be in addition to or instead of the guidescope.
              > Would
              > > > the 20 sec exposure be with just the reducer? Again thank you
              for
              > > the
              > > > advise. I think I could outfit my setup with the rings for the
              60
              > I
              > > > saw them on scopestuff for no too much $$$. Any direction on
              the
              > > > Illuminated eyepeice? I was looking at the Orion about $70 or
              > > should
              > > > I go with quality?
              > > >
              > > > Agin thank you for the insight!!!!
              > > >
              > > > Bob
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Ferreira" <bakerst@>
              > > > wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > Bob, yeah; with the system you have right now, manual guiding
              > is
              > > > your
              > > > > only option. There are undoubtedly some folks out there that
              > > have
              > > > > modifited the drives on your Skyview Pro for autoguiding, but
              > it
              > > > may
              > > > > not be a project you'd care to persue. Still, you might do
              > some
              > > > > surfing on the web and sign onto the Yahoo Orion Telescope
              > forum.
              > > > >
              > > > > Acquiring a focal reducer will help reduce image scale and
              > > possibly
              > > > > allow you to do slighly longer unguided exposures. There are
              > > lots
              > > > of
              > > > > folks out there working with similar setups doing 20 second
              > > > exposures
              > > > > and coming up with very respectable images of brighter
              Messier
              > > > > objects. Unfortunately, going with a color camera will prove
              > to
              > > be
              > > > a
              > > > > handicap as the color CCD is less sensitive than a comparable
              > > size
              > > > > monochrome CCD. Basically, you need to shoot many more 20
              > second
              > > > > exposures with the color camera than you would need for
              > > monochrome.
              > > > >
              > > > > Really tweaking out the drive and carefully balancing the
              > system
              > > > will
              > > > > help. Then, of course, good polar alignment.
              > > > >
              > > > > I'd go with the small refractor as a guidescope rather than
              an
              > > off
              > > > > axis guider. Orion sells guidescope rings and rails that
              will
              > > > easily
              > > > > attach to your present scope mounting rings.
              > > > >
              > > > > Good luck!
              > > > > Jim
              > > > > Livermore CA
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > > My refractor is f/6.5 80mm WO APO 565mm focal length. I
              could
              > > > > aquire
              > > > > > another refractor from a friend, smaller 60 mm 700mm/FL
              > f/11.7.
              > > I
              > > > > > think my mount can handle all of them and track.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > As far as software "talking" to the mount that is another
              > issue
              > > > my
              > > > > > Skyview Pro German equitorial is non goto. I'm starting to
              > > think
              > > > > that
              > > > > > the illuminated eyepeice-guider scope or off axis-guiders
              > seems
              > > > > like
              > > > > > my only choices. Is it worth it to buy the reticle eyepeice
              > and
              > > > > > mounting hardware just to find out the inaquecies of my
              > mount?
              > > Or
              > > > > > should I stick to faster exposure photography planets. moon
              > > ect.?
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Thank you for your reply and help.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > bob
              > > > > >
              > > > >
              > > >
              > >
              >



              ------------------------------------
            • Gerald Rowe
              ... pitch in, ... [mailto:ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com] On ... Hello Group, I would like to second the comment that this is a great group to belong to. I have
              Message 6 of 13 , Jun 6 1:45 PM
              • 0 Attachment
                --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Wodaski - Yahoo" <yahoo@...> wrote:
                >
                > >> As this discussion may be painfully basic...
                >
                > Please, keep the discussion here. We have LOTS of beginners who lurk,
                > reading posts and learning as they go. This is the PERFECT place for a
                > 'painfully basic' discussion! Those who already know will either
                pitch in,
                > or ignore.
                >
                > Ron Wodaski
                > Group Moderator
                >
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com
                [mailto:ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com] On
                > Behalf Of Jim Ferreira
                > Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 1:17 PM
                > To: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: [ccd-newastro] Re: New Member/Novice Astrophotographer Guiding
                > question
                >
                > As they say; there are no dumb questions...
                >
                > In tweaking the mount, you want to adjust gear and worm, and worm
                > alignment, so there is no play, but not so snug that the worm/gear
                > bind -- takes a bit of trial and error to find proper adjustment. Be
                > sure the gear surfaces are clean and well lubricated. Doing some
                > test shots will tell you if the mount is running smoothly.
                >
                > Polar alignment will be the next hurtle. The more accurate polar
                > aignment, the fewer corrections needed in DEC while guiding. Polar
                > scopes can be good, but you can't count on them to be accurate right
                > out of the box. Again, lots of trial and error.
                >
                > As this discussion may be painfully basic to a good portion of this
                > group, perhaps we should take further discussion off list.
                >
                > Bob, you can contact me at bakerst@... Always enjoys talking
                > shop regarding CCD imaging with small scopes.
                >
                > Cheers,
                > Jim
                > Livermore CA
                > http://www.lafterhall.com/ccd_imaging.html
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > >
                > > Awesome!!!! really good advise thank you very much. I
                > > apologize if I ask idiotic questions this is all rather new to me,
                > > thank you for your patience. The manual controlling box has three
                > > rates for directional movement: 2x, 4x and 8x. I use the 8x for
                > > centering objects. In reading the manual; it advises that the 2x be
                > > used for astrophotography adjustments (being the slowest one). Any
                > > suggestions on tuning procedure for the RA drive.? My eyesight I
                > > would guess via an eypeice would not be accurate enough? Should I
                > > just get a star in the center and let the drive track away?
                > > I'm calling Orion Support to validat that the DC converter
                > > I'm looking into purchasing is a right fit, this will also negate
                > my
                > > doubts on good batteries. I can ask them if there are any
                > adjustments
                > > on the drives and more technical data on my scope.
                > >
                > > Thanks a bunch for all of the good info and support you
                > > have provided me on this endeavor. This is really a cool newsgroup
                > > with a great memebers. Clear Skies!
                > >
                > > Bob
                > > Hardyston NJ
                > >
                > >
                > > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Ferreira" <bakerst@>
                > > wrote:
                > > >
                > > > My suggestion would be go with the focal reducer first, and
                > really
                > > > tune up the RA drive on your system and see what kind of results
                > > you
                > > > can come up with using 15 or 20 second exposures. If it looks
                > like
                > > > the drive is reasonably accurate, with only modest periodic
                > error,
                > > > then you may want to pursue manual guiding.
                > > >
                > > > For manual guiding you'll need to look into how smoothly and how
                > > > precisely your manual controls can be operated. Since they are
                > > > intended for visual observing, they may move the scope too
                > quickly
                > > > when centering a star at the slowest settings, causing over shoot.
                > > >
                > > > Jim
                > > > Livermore CA
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > Thank you for your reply it shed some light on my issue. Would
                > > the
                > > > > focal reducer be in addition to or instead of the guidescope.
                > > Would
                > > > > the 20 sec exposure be with just the reducer? Again thank you
                > for
                > > > the
                > > > > advise. I think I could outfit my setup with the rings for the
                > 60
                > > I
                > > > > saw them on scopestuff for no too much $$$. Any direction on
                > the
                > > > > Illuminated eyepeice? I was looking at the Orion about $70 or
                > > > should
                > > > > I go with quality?
                > > > >
                > > > > Agin thank you for the insight!!!!
                > > > >
                > > > > Bob
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Ferreira" <bakerst@>
                > > > > wrote:
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Bob, yeah; with the system you have right now, manual guiding
                > > is
                > > > > your
                > > > > > only option. There are undoubtedly some folks out there that
                > > > have
                > > > > > modifited the drives on your Skyview Pro for autoguiding, but
                > > it
                > > > > may
                > > > > > not be a project you'd care to persue. Still, you might do
                > > some
                > > > > > surfing on the web and sign onto the Yahoo Orion Telescope
                > > forum.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Acquiring a focal reducer will help reduce image scale and
                > > > possibly
                > > > > > allow you to do slighly longer unguided exposures. There are
                > > > lots
                > > > > of
                > > > > > folks out there working with similar setups doing 20 second
                > > > > exposures
                > > > > > and coming up with very respectable images of brighter
                > Messier
                > > > > > objects. Unfortunately, going with a color camera will prove
                > > to
                > > > be
                > > > > a
                > > > > > handicap as the color CCD is less sensitive than a comparable
                > > > size
                > > > > > monochrome CCD. Basically, you need to shoot many more 20
                > > second
                > > > > > exposures with the color camera than you would need for
                > > > monochrome.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Really tweaking out the drive and carefully balancing the
                > > system
                > > > > will
                > > > > > help. Then, of course, good polar alignment.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > I'd go with the small refractor as a guidescope rather than
                > an
                > > > off
                > > > > > axis guider. Orion sells guidescope rings and rails that
                > will
                > > > > easily
                > > > > > attach to your present scope mounting rings.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Good luck!
                > > > > > Jim
                > > > > > Livermore CA
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > My refractor is f/6.5 80mm WO APO 565mm focal length. I
                > could
                > > > > > aquire
                > > > > > > another refractor from a friend, smaller 60 mm 700mm/FL
                > > f/11.7.
                > > > I
                > > > > > > think my mount can handle all of them and track.
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > As far as software "talking" to the mount that is another
                > > issue
                > > > > my
                > > > > > > Skyview Pro German equitorial is non goto. I'm starting to
                > > > think
                > > > > > that
                > > > > > > the illuminated eyepeice-guider scope or off axis-guiders
                > > seems
                > > > > > like
                > > > > > > my only choices. Is it worth it to buy the reticle eyepeice
                > > and
                > > > > > > mounting hardware just to find out the inaquecies of my
                > > mount?
                > > > Or
                > > > > > > should I stick to faster exposure photography planets. moon
                > > > ect.?
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > Thank you for your reply and help.
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > bob
                > > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > >
                > > >
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                Hello Group, I would like to second the comment that this is a great
                group to belong to. I have learned lots just reading the post.
                Although Ive been doing astronomy for a while, astrophotography is a
                different ball game all together. For me the first trial and error
                experience was dealing with play and smooth operation of my mount. Its
                just enough mount to handle my telescope weight. A LXD75 10" Schmidt
                Newtonian. I think I have it working to optimum smoothness with
                minimum play. Now if the weather in the Northwest would improve I
                might get some practice with image taking. Thank You to all the
                experienced astronomers/astrophotographers. Jerry Rowe Olympic
                Peninsula, Wa. Clear Dark Skies All !
              • dave@dcshore.co.uk
                Thanks for that Ron, I m a beginner and trying to learn all I can. Best regards to all, David. Bournemouth UK. dave@dcshore.co.uk ... From:
                Message 7 of 13 , Jun 6 1:45 PM
                • 0 Attachment
                  Thanks for that Ron,



                  I'm a beginner and trying to learn all I can.



                  Best regards to all,
                  David. Bournemouth UK.

                  dave@...



                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com] On
                  Behalf Of Wodaski - Yahoo
                  Sent: 06 June 2008 20:34
                  To: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: RE: [ccd-newastro] Re: New Member/Novice Astrophotographer Guiding
                  question



                  >> As this discussion may be painfully basic...

                  Please, keep the discussion here. We have LOTS of beginners who lurk,
                  reading posts and learning as they go. This is the PERFECT place for a
                  'painfully basic' discussion! Those who already know will either pitch in,
                  or ignore.

                  Ron Wodaski
                  Group Moderator

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: ccd-newastro@ <mailto:ccd-newastro%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
                  [mailto:ccd-newastro@ <mailto:ccd-newastro%40yahoogroups.com>
                  yahoogroups.com] On
                  Behalf Of Jim Ferreira
                  Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 1:17 PM
                  To: ccd-newastro@ <mailto:ccd-newastro%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [ccd-newastro] Re: New Member/Novice Astrophotographer Guiding
                  question

                  As they say; there are no dumb questions...

                  In tweaking the mount, you want to adjust gear and worm, and worm
                  alignment, so there is no play, but not so snug that the worm/gear
                  bind -- takes a bit of trial and error to find proper adjustment. Be
                  sure the gear surfaces are clean and well lubricated. Doing some
                  test shots will tell you if the mount is running smoothly.

                  Polar alignment will be the next hurtle. The more accurate polar
                  aignment, the fewer corrections needed in DEC while guiding. Polar
                  scopes can be good, but you can't count on them to be accurate right
                  out of the box. Again, lots of trial and error.

                  As this discussion may be painfully basic to a good portion of this
                  group, perhaps we should take further discussion off list.

                  Bob, you can contact me at bakerst@comcast. <mailto:bakerst%40comcast.net>
                  net Always enjoys talking
                  shop regarding CCD imaging with small scopes.

                  Cheers,
                  Jim
                  Livermore CA
                  http://www.lafterha <http://www.lafterhall.com/ccd_imaging.html>
                  ll.com/ccd_imaging.html

                  >
                  > Awesome!!!! really good advise thank you very much. I
                  > apologize if I ask idiotic questions this is all rather new to me,
                  > thank you for your patience. The manual controlling box has three
                  > rates for directional movement: 2x, 4x and 8x. I use the 8x for
                  > centering objects. In reading the manual; it advises that the 2x be
                  > used for astrophotography adjustments (being the slowest one). Any
                  > suggestions on tuning procedure for the RA drive.? My eyesight I
                  > would guess via an eypeice would not be accurate enough? Should I
                  > just get a star in the center and let the drive track away?
                  > I'm calling Orion Support to validat that the DC converter
                  > I'm looking into purchasing is a right fit, this will also negate
                  my
                  > doubts on good batteries. I can ask them if there are any
                  adjustments
                  > on the drives and more technical data on my scope.
                  >
                  > Thanks a bunch for all of the good info and support you
                  > have provided me on this endeavor. This is really a cool newsgroup
                  > with a great memebers. Clear Skies!
                  >
                  > Bob
                  > Hardyston NJ
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In ccd-newastro@ <mailto:ccd-newastro%40yahoogroups.com>
                  yahoogroups.com, "Jim Ferreira" <bakerst@>
                  > wrote:
                  > >
                  > > My suggestion would be go with the focal reducer first, and
                  really
                  > > tune up the RA drive on your system and see what kind of results
                  > you
                  > > can come up with using 15 or 20 second exposures. If it looks
                  like
                  > > the drive is reasonably accurate, with only modest periodic
                  error,
                  > > then you may want to pursue manual guiding.
                  > >
                  > > For manual guiding you'll need to look into how smoothly and how
                  > > precisely your manual controls can be operated. Since they are
                  > > intended for visual observing, they may move the scope too
                  quickly
                  > > when centering a star at the slowest settings, causing over shoot.
                  > >
                  > > Jim
                  > > Livermore CA
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Thank you for your reply it shed some light on my issue. Would
                  > the
                  > > > focal reducer be in addition to or instead of the guidescope.
                  > Would
                  > > > the 20 sec exposure be with just the reducer? Again thank you
                  for
                  > > the
                  > > > advise. I think I could outfit my setup with the rings for the
                  60
                  > I
                  > > > saw them on scopestuff for no too much $$$. Any direction on
                  the
                  > > > Illuminated eyepeice? I was looking at the Orion about $70 or
                  > > should
                  > > > I go with quality?
                  > > >
                  > > > Agin thank you for the insight!!!!
                  > > >
                  > > > Bob
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In ccd-newastro@ <mailto:ccd-newastro%40yahoogroups.com>
                  yahoogroups.com, "Jim Ferreira" <bakerst@>
                  > > > wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Bob, yeah; with the system you have right now, manual guiding
                  > is
                  > > > your
                  > > > > only option. There are undoubtedly some folks out there that
                  > > have
                  > > > > modifited the drives on your Skyview Pro for autoguiding, but
                  > it
                  > > > may
                  > > > > not be a project you'd care to persue. Still, you might do
                  > some
                  > > > > surfing on the web and sign onto the Yahoo Orion Telescope
                  > forum.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Acquiring a focal reducer will help reduce image scale and
                  > > possibly
                  > > > > allow you to do slighly longer unguided exposures. There are
                  > > lots
                  > > > of
                  > > > > folks out there working with similar setups doing 20 second
                  > > > exposures
                  > > > > and coming up with very respectable images of brighter
                  Messier
                  > > > > objects. Unfortunately, going with a color camera will prove
                  > to
                  > > be
                  > > > a
                  > > > > handicap as the color CCD is less sensitive than a comparable
                  > > size
                  > > > > monochrome CCD. Basically, you need to shoot many more 20
                  > second
                  > > > > exposures with the color camera than you would need for
                  > > monochrome.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Really tweaking out the drive and carefully balancing the
                  > system
                  > > > will
                  > > > > help. Then, of course, good polar alignment.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > I'd go with the small refractor as a guidescope rather than
                  an
                  > > off
                  > > > > axis guider. Orion sells guidescope rings and rails that
                  will
                  > > > easily
                  > > > > attach to your present scope mounting rings.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Good luck!
                  > > > > Jim
                  > > > > Livermore CA
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > My refractor is f/6.5 80mm WO APO 565mm focal length. I
                  could
                  > > > > aquire
                  > > > > > another refractor from a friend, smaller 60 mm 700mm/FL
                  > f/11.7.
                  > > I
                  > > > > > think my mount can handle all of them and track.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > As far as software "talking" to the mount that is another
                  > issue
                  > > > my
                  > > > > > Skyview Pro German equitorial is non goto. I'm starting to
                  > > think
                  > > > > that
                  > > > > > the illuminated eyepeice-guider scope or off axis-guiders
                  > seems
                  > > > > like
                  > > > > > my only choices. Is it worth it to buy the reticle eyepeice
                  > and
                  > > > > > mounting hardware just to find out the inaquecies of my
                  > mount?
                  > > Or
                  > > > > > should I stick to faster exposure photography planets. moon
                  > > ect.?
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Thank you for your reply and help.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > bob
                  > > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >

                  ------------------------------------



                  No virus found in this incoming message.
                  Checked by AVG.
                  Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.0.0/1488 - Release Date: 06/06/2008
                  17:48




                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Robert D Phalon
                  Yeah, that is what I thought you meant. Usually I get out there and I am so excited to be out there, I go right into snapping exposures instead of alignment
                  Message 8 of 13 , Jun 8 9:46 AM
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Yeah, that is what I thought you meant. Usually I get out there
                    and I am so excited to be out there, I go right into snapping
                    exposures instead of alignment and mount accuracy. I'd like to thank
                    you for all of the great insights and thoughts on my setup/equipment.
                    I think the focal reducer has some real upsides with my modest
                    equipment.An F/3.3 focal reducer would take my f/6.8 scope down to a
                    F/3.3 making the objects smaller but brighter, therefore shortening
                    my exposure time needs? Information on focal reducers is not readily
                    available on the internet(basically what they do),other than
                    comparisions.
                    My mount hardware and the drive axis do not attach with the best
                    design but it is workable. As far as the "play" the axis drive can
                    turn a 1\2 worm gear tooth when engaged. Should there not be that
                    much play? The manual for the drive advised that amount of play but
                    as you said not to bind the gears. The lubricant you speak of would
                    lubricant for model trains work or is there special types for this
                    appilcation specifically?
                    The alignment issue, the polar scope did line up my latitude
                    adjustment. It turned out I had to adjust it for Polaris to line up
                    in the circle. The Ursa Major and Cassiopia line up with the general
                    direction but it is hard to project the exact location of the two
                    constellation beyond the FOV of the polar scope (with a degree of
                    certainty). Drift alignment seems to come into the picture after this
                    procedure but that seems to take a long time in addition to a night
                    of photographing???
                    Well, I do not want to take up all group's time on my novice
                    hardware issues, but it slowly becoming an oasis for me to talk to
                    knowlegable members. The information on the net seems to contradict
                    each other sometimes. Thank you as always for the insightful,
                    thorough and timely responses to all of my questions.

                    Thank You

                    Bob
                    Hardyston NJ



                    --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Ferreira" <bakerst@...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > As they say; there are no dumb questions...
                    >
                    > In tweaking the mount, you want to adjust gear and worm, and worm
                    > alignment, so there is no play, but not so snug that the worm/gear
                    > bind -- takes a bit of trial and error to find proper adjustment.
                    Be
                    > sure the gear surfaces are clean and well lubricated. Doing some
                    > test shots will tell you if the mount is running smoothly.
                    >
                    > Polar alignment will be the next hurtle. The more accurate polar
                    > aignment, the fewer corrections needed in DEC while guiding. Polar
                    > scopes can be good, but you can't count on them to be accurate
                    right
                    > out of the box. Again, lots of trial and error.
                    >
                    > As this discussion may be painfully basic to a good portion of this
                    > group, perhaps we should take further discussion off list.
                    >
                    > Bob, you can contact me at bakerst@... Always enjoys talking
                    > shop regarding CCD imaging with small scopes.
                    >
                    > Cheers,
                    > Jim
                    > Livermore CA
                    > http://www.lafterhall.com/ccd_imaging.html
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > >
                    > > Awesome!!!! really good advise thank you very much. I
                    > > apologize if I ask idiotic questions this is all rather new to
                    me,
                    > > thank you for your patience. The manual controlling box has three
                    > > rates for directional movement: 2x, 4x and 8x. I use the 8x for
                    > > centering objects. In reading the manual; it advises that the 2x
                    be
                    > > used for astrophotography adjustments (being the slowest one).
                    Any
                    > > suggestions on tuning procedure for the RA drive.? My eyesight I
                    > > would guess via an eypeice would not be accurate enough? Should I
                    > > just get a star in the center and let the drive track away?
                    > > I'm calling Orion Support to validat that the DC
                    converter
                    > > I'm looking into purchasing is a right fit, this will also negate
                    > my
                    > > doubts on good batteries. I can ask them if there are any
                    > adjustments
                    > > on the drives and more technical data on my scope.
                    > >
                    > > Thanks a bunch for all of the good info and support you
                    > > have provided me on this endeavor. This is really a cool
                    newsgroup
                    > > with a great memebers. Clear Skies!
                    > >
                    > > Bob
                    > > Hardyston NJ
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Ferreira" <bakerst@>
                    > > wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > My suggestion would be go with the focal reducer first, and
                    > really
                    > > > tune up the RA drive on your system and see what kind of
                    results
                    > > you
                    > > > can come up with using 15 or 20 second exposures. If it looks
                    > like
                    > > > the drive is reasonably accurate, with only modest periodic
                    > error,
                    > > > then you may want to pursue manual guiding.
                    > > >
                    > > > For manual guiding you'll need to look into how smoothly and
                    how
                    > > > precisely your manual controls can be operated. Since they are
                    > > > intended for visual observing, they may move the scope too
                    > quickly
                    > > > when centering a star at the slowest settings, causing over
                    shoot.
                    > > >
                    > > > Jim
                    > > > Livermore CA
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Thank you for your reply it shed some light on my issue.
                    Would
                    > > the
                    > > > > focal reducer be in addition to or instead of the guidescope.
                    > > Would
                    > > > > the 20 sec exposure be with just the reducer? Again thank you
                    > for
                    > > > the
                    > > > > advise. I think I could outfit my setup with the rings for
                    the
                    > 60
                    > > I
                    > > > > saw them on scopestuff for no too much $$$. Any direction on
                    > the
                    > > > > Illuminated eyepeice? I was looking at the Orion about $70 or
                    > > > should
                    > > > > I go with quality?
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Agin thank you for the insight!!!!
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Bob
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Ferreira"
                    <bakerst@>
                    > > > > wrote:
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Bob, yeah; with the system you have right now, manual
                    guiding
                    > > is
                    > > > > your
                    > > > > > only option. There are undoubtedly some folks out there
                    that
                    > > > have
                    > > > > > modifited the drives on your Skyview Pro for autoguiding,
                    but
                    > > it
                    > > > > may
                    > > > > > not be a project you'd care to persue. Still, you might do
                    > > some
                    > > > > > surfing on the web and sign onto the Yahoo Orion Telescope
                    > > forum.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Acquiring a focal reducer will help reduce image scale and
                    > > > possibly
                    > > > > > allow you to do slighly longer unguided exposures. There
                    are
                    > > > lots
                    > > > > of
                    > > > > > folks out there working with similar setups doing 20 second
                    > > > > exposures
                    > > > > > and coming up with very respectable images of brighter
                    > Messier
                    > > > > > objects. Unfortunately, going with a color camera will
                    prove
                    > > to
                    > > > be
                    > > > > a
                    > > > > > handicap as the color CCD is less sensitive than a
                    comparable
                    > > > size
                    > > > > > monochrome CCD. Basically, you need to shoot many more 20
                    > > second
                    > > > > > exposures with the color camera than you would need for
                    > > > monochrome.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Really tweaking out the drive and carefully balancing the
                    > > system
                    > > > > will
                    > > > > > help. Then, of course, good polar alignment.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > I'd go with the small refractor as a guidescope rather than
                    > an
                    > > > off
                    > > > > > axis guider. Orion sells guidescope rings and rails that
                    > will
                    > > > > easily
                    > > > > > attach to your present scope mounting rings.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Good luck!
                    > > > > > Jim
                    > > > > > Livermore CA
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > My refractor is f/6.5 80mm WO APO 565mm focal length. I
                    > could
                    > > > > > aquire
                    > > > > > > another refractor from a friend, smaller 60 mm 700mm/FL
                    > > f/11.7.
                    > > > I
                    > > > > > > think my mount can handle all of them and track.
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > As far as software "talking" to the mount that is another
                    > > issue
                    > > > > my
                    > > > > > > Skyview Pro German equitorial is non goto. I'm starting
                    to
                    > > > think
                    > > > > > that
                    > > > > > > the illuminated eyepeice-guider scope or off axis-guiders
                    > > seems
                    > > > > > like
                    > > > > > > my only choices. Is it worth it to buy the reticle
                    eyepeice
                    > > and
                    > > > > > > mounting hardware just to find out the inaquecies of my
                    > > mount?
                    > > > Or
                    > > > > > > should I stick to faster exposure photography planets.
                    moon
                    > > > ect.?
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > Thank you for your reply and help.
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > bob
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >
                  • Ron Brant
                    I do not think you will like the severe vignetting that the f/3.3 reducer yeilds. At best, you would have to severly crop the image. rb ... From: Robert D
                    Message 9 of 13 , Jun 8 10:49 AM
                    • 0 Attachment
                      I do not think you will like the severe vignetting that the f/3.3 reducer yeilds. At best, you would have to severly crop the image.
                      rb
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: Robert D Phalon
                      To: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2008 9:46 AM
                      Subject: [ccd-newastro] Re: New Member/Novice Astrophotographer Guiding question


                      Yeah, that is what I thought you meant. Usually I get out there
                      and I am so excited to be out there, I go right into snapping
                      exposures instead of alignment and mount accuracy. I'd like to thank
                      you for all of the great insights and thoughts on my setup/equipment.
                      I think the focal reducer has some real upsides with my modest
                      equipment.An F/3.3 focal reducer would take my f/6.8 scope down to a
                      F/3.3 making the objects smaller but brighter, therefore shortening
                      my exposure time needs? Information on focal reducers is not readily
                      available on the internet(basically what they do),other than
                      comparisions.
                      My mount hardware and the drive axis do not attach with the best
                      design but it is workable. As far as the "play" the axis drive can
                      turn a 1\2 worm gear tooth when engaged. Should there not be that
                      much play? The manual for the drive advised that amount of play but
                      as you said not to bind the gears. The lubricant you speak of would
                      lubricant for model trains work or is there special types for this
                      appilcation specifically?
                      The alignment issue, the polar scope did line up my latitude
                      adjustment. It turned out I had to adjust it for Polaris to line up
                      in the circle. The Ursa Major and Cassiopia line up with the general
                      direction but it is hard to project the exact location of the two
                      constellation beyond the FOV of the polar scope (with a degree of
                      certainty). Drift alignment seems to come into the picture after this
                      procedure but that seems to take a long time in addition to a night
                      of photographing???
                      Well, I do not want to take up all group's time on my novice
                      hardware issues, but it slowly becoming an oasis for me to talk to
                      knowlegable members. The information on the net seems to contradict
                      each other sometimes. Thank you as always for the insightful,
                      thorough and timely responses to all of my questions.

                      Thank You

                      Bob
                      Hardyston NJ

                      --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Ferreira" <bakerst@...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > As they say; there are no dumb questions...
                      >
                      > In tweaking the mount, you want to adjust gear and worm, and worm
                      > alignment, so there is no play, but not so snug that the worm/gear
                      > bind -- takes a bit of trial and error to find proper adjustment.
                      Be
                      > sure the gear surfaces are clean and well lubricated. Doing some
                      > test shots will tell you if the mount is running smoothly.
                      >
                      > Polar alignment will be the next hurtle. The more accurate polar
                      > aignment, the fewer corrections needed in DEC while guiding. Polar
                      > scopes can be good, but you can't count on them to be accurate
                      right
                      > out of the box. Again, lots of trial and error.
                      >
                      > As this discussion may be painfully basic to a good portion of this
                      > group, perhaps we should take further discussion off list.
                      >
                      > Bob, you can contact me at bakerst@... Always enjoys talking
                      > shop regarding CCD imaging with small scopes.
                      >
                      > Cheers,
                      > Jim
                      > Livermore CA
                      > http://www.lafterhall.com/ccd_imaging.html
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > >
                      > > Awesome!!!! really good advise thank you very much. I
                      > > apologize if I ask idiotic questions this is all rather new to
                      me,
                      > > thank you for your patience. The manual controlling box has three
                      > > rates for directional movement: 2x, 4x and 8x. I use the 8x for
                      > > centering objects. In reading the manual; it advises that the 2x
                      be
                      > > used for astrophotography adjustments (being the slowest one).
                      Any
                      > > suggestions on tuning procedure for the RA drive.? My eyesight I
                      > > would guess via an eypeice would not be accurate enough? Should I
                      > > just get a star in the center and let the drive track away?
                      > > I'm calling Orion Support to validat that the DC
                      converter
                      > > I'm looking into purchasing is a right fit, this will also negate
                      > my
                      > > doubts on good batteries. I can ask them if there are any
                      > adjustments
                      > > on the drives and more technical data on my scope.
                      > >
                      > > Thanks a bunch for all of the good info and support you
                      > > have provided me on this endeavor. This is really a cool
                      newsgroup
                      > > with a great memebers. Clear Skies!
                      > >
                      > > Bob
                      > > Hardyston NJ
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Ferreira" <bakerst@>
                      > > wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > My suggestion would be go with the focal reducer first, and
                      > really
                      > > > tune up the RA drive on your system and see what kind of
                      results
                      > > you
                      > > > can come up with using 15 or 20 second exposures. If it looks
                      > like
                      > > > the drive is reasonably accurate, with only modest periodic
                      > error,
                      > > > then you may want to pursue manual guiding.
                      > > >
                      > > > For manual guiding you'll need to look into how smoothly and
                      how
                      > > > precisely your manual controls can be operated. Since they are
                      > > > intended for visual observing, they may move the scope too
                      > quickly
                      > > > when centering a star at the slowest settings, causing over
                      shoot.
                      > > >
                      > > > Jim
                      > > > Livermore CA
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Thank you for your reply it shed some light on my issue.
                      Would
                      > > the
                      > > > > focal reducer be in addition to or instead of the guidescope.
                      > > Would
                      > > > > the 20 sec exposure be with just the reducer? Again thank you
                      > for
                      > > > the
                      > > > > advise. I think I could outfit my setup with the rings for
                      the
                      > 60
                      > > I
                      > > > > saw them on scopestuff for no too much $$$. Any direction on
                      > the
                      > > > > Illuminated eyepeice? I was looking at the Orion about $70 or
                      > > > should
                      > > > > I go with quality?
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Agin thank you for the insight!!!!
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Bob
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Ferreira"
                      <bakerst@>
                      > > > > wrote:
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Bob, yeah; with the system you have right now, manual
                      guiding
                      > > is
                      > > > > your
                      > > > > > only option. There are undoubtedly some folks out there
                      that
                      > > > have
                      > > > > > modifited the drives on your Skyview Pro for autoguiding,
                      but
                      > > it
                      > > > > may
                      > > > > > not be a project you'd care to persue. Still, you might do
                      > > some
                      > > > > > surfing on the web and sign onto the Yahoo Orion Telescope
                      > > forum.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Acquiring a focal reducer will help reduce image scale and
                      > > > possibly
                      > > > > > allow you to do slighly longer unguided exposures. There
                      are
                      > > > lots
                      > > > > of
                      > > > > > folks out there working with similar setups doing 20 second
                      > > > > exposures
                      > > > > > and coming up with very respectable images of brighter
                      > Messier
                      > > > > > objects. Unfortunately, going with a color camera will
                      prove
                      > > to
                      > > > be
                      > > > > a
                      > > > > > handicap as the color CCD is less sensitive than a
                      comparable
                      > > > size
                      > > > > > monochrome CCD. Basically, you need to shoot many more 20
                      > > second
                      > > > > > exposures with the color camera than you would need for
                      > > > monochrome.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Really tweaking out the drive and carefully balancing the
                      > > system
                      > > > > will
                      > > > > > help. Then, of course, good polar alignment.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > I'd go with the small refractor as a guidescope rather than
                      > an
                      > > > off
                      > > > > > axis guider. Orion sells guidescope rings and rails that
                      > will
                      > > > > easily
                      > > > > > attach to your present scope mounting rings.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Good luck!
                      > > > > > Jim
                      > > > > > Livermore CA
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > My refractor is f/6.5 80mm WO APO 565mm focal length. I
                      > could
                      > > > > > aquire
                      > > > > > > another refractor from a friend, smaller 60 mm 700mm/FL
                      > > f/11.7.
                      > > > I
                      > > > > > > think my mount can handle all of them and track.
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > As far as software "talking" to the mount that is another
                      > > issue
                      > > > > my
                      > > > > > > Skyview Pro German equitorial is non goto. I'm starting
                      to
                      > > > think
                      > > > > > that
                      > > > > > > the illuminated eyepeice-guider scope or off axis-guiders
                      > > seems
                      > > > > > like
                      > > > > > > my only choices. Is it worth it to buy the reticle
                      eyepeice
                      > > and
                      > > > > > > mounting hardware just to find out the inaquecies of my
                      > > mount?
                      > > > Or
                      > > > > > > should I stick to faster exposure photography planets.
                      moon
                      > > > ect.?
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > Thank you for your reply and help.
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > bob
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >





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