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Another M101 to comment on

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  • Phillida Hutcheson
    Please look at the image at http://www.astropch.com/astronomyweb/recent_image_1.htm I am new at this and would like some feedback. Thanks ... Phillida
    Message 1 of 26 , May 29, 2003
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      Please look at the image at http://www.astropch.com/astronomyweb/recent_image_1.htm I am new at this and would like some feedback.

      Thanks ... Phillida

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • clearviewh
      -No one is ever going to laugh at images here Phillida, but we WILL need more info to help you like the telescope you are using, the camera, and the length of
      Message 2 of 26 , May 29, 2003
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        -No one is ever going to laugh at images here Phillida, but we WILL
        need more info to help you like the telescope you are using, the
        camera, and the length of exposure info
        Ed

        -- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Phillida Hutcheson" <pch01@a...>
        wrote:
        > Please look at the image at
        http://www.astropch.com/astronomyweb/recent_image_1.htm I am new at
        this and would like some feedback.
        >
        > Thanks ... Phillida
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Mark de Regt
        Phillida, That s a good image! Your guiding is good, with nice round stars, and you have some nice detail, including dust lanes near the core. You didn t tell
        Message 3 of 26 , May 29, 2003
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          Phillida,

          That's a good image! Your guiding is good, with nice round stars, and you
          have some nice detail, including dust lanes near the core.

          You didn't tell us anything about your equipment, exposure or processing.
          It looks like you may need some more exposure, and you may have
          over-sharpened a bit (either or both would help explain the noise in the
          background). Also, the color is too magenta, I think, which could be caused
          by many things.

          Phillida, you have done very, very well.

          Mark de Regt
          Redmond, Washington, USA

          47.696270 N.
          122.004715 W.
          Astro Images: http://home.earthlink.net/~akilla/MAD


          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: Phillida Hutcheson [mailto:pch01@...]
          > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 12:08 PM
          > To: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [ccd-newastro] Another M101 to comment on
          >
          >
          > Please look at the image at
          > http://www.astropch.com/astronomyweb/recent_image_1.htm I am new
          > at this and would like some feedback.
          >
          > Thanks ... Phillida
          >
        • Phillida Hutcheson
          Ed, Sorry about leaving out the information about the equipment and exposure details. Here it is I will also add it to the web site with the image also.
          Message 4 of 26 , May 29, 2003
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            Ed,

            Sorry about leaving out the information about the equipment and exposure details. Here it is I will also add it to the web site with the image also.

            Equipment: I operated the telescope remotely via the Internet using remote software from Software Bisque, the equipment housed at New Mexico Skies at an elevation of 7,300 feet.. The telescope is a Celestron C14 and Takahashai 90 mounted on a Paramount ME with a SBIG ST-1001E/1001XE CCD camera. Exposure: Unguided, -9.79 C, and 45 seconds each in the luminance, red, green, and blue frames. Processing was done with CCDSoft version 5.

            Phillida
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: clearviewh
            To: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 3:22 PM
            Subject: [ccd-newastro] Re: Another M101 to comment on


            -No one is ever going to laugh at images here Phillida, but we WILL
            need more info to help you like the telescope you are using, the
            camera, and the length of exposure info
            Ed

            -- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Phillida Hutcheson" <pch01@a...>
            wrote:
            > Please look at the image at
            http://www.astropch.com/astronomyweb/recent_image_1.htm I am new at
            this and would like some feedback.
            >
            > Thanks ... Phillida
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • clearviewh
            Ahh, you used Ron s stuff : ) no wonder the tracking was so good. Ok then, in order to get better images you need MORE exposure time. Generally, I think for
            Message 5 of 26 , May 29, 2003
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              Ahh, you used Ron's stuff :>) no wonder the tracking was so good.
              Ok then, in order to get better images you need MORE exposure time.
              Generally, I think for that setup, the 14 in that is, 5 min exposers
              are about right. Also, you need to take longer green and blue than
              red shoot for a ratio of R:G:B 1:1.5:1.5 So, the next time you try
              it, shoot for say......3x5 min for the red, and 3x7.5 min for the
              green and blue, and take as many Luminance exposures as you have time
              for. As an example, with my LX200 12 in and ST8XE, I generally take
              the following ratios made up of 10 and 15 min exposures
              L:R:G:B 120:60:90:90 min Hope this helps
              Ed
              --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Phillida Hutcheson"
              <pch01@a...> wrote:
              > Ed,
              >
              > Sorry about leaving out the information about the equipment and
              exposure details. Here it is I will also add it to the web site with
              the image also.
              >
              > Equipment: I operated the telescope remotely via the Internet using
              remote software from Software Bisque, the equipment housed at New
              Mexico Skies at an elevation of 7,300 feet.. The telescope is a
              Celestron C14 and Takahashai 90 mounted on a Paramount ME with a SBIG
              ST-1001E/1001XE CCD camera. Exposure: Unguided, -9.79 C, and 45
              seconds each in the luminance, red, green, and blue frames.
              Processing was done with CCDSoft version 5.
              >
              > Phillida
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: clearviewh
              > To: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 3:22 PM
              > Subject: [ccd-newastro] Re: Another M101 to comment on
              >
              >
              > -No one is ever going to laugh at images here Phillida, but we
              WILL
              > need more info to help you like the telescope you are using, the
              > camera, and the length of exposure info
              > Ed
              >
              > -- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Phillida Hutcheson"
              <pch01@a...>
              > wrote:
              > > Please look at the image at
              > http://www.astropch.com/astronomyweb/recent_image_1.htm I am new
              at
              > this and would like some feedback.
              > >
              > > Thanks ... Phillida
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
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              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • jilouus
              I think that the image could be greatly improved by increasing your exposure time. I don t think that 45 seconds is nearly enough time. My best M-101 image to
              Message 6 of 26 , May 29, 2003
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                I think that the image could be greatly improved by increasing your
                exposure time. I don't think that 45 seconds is nearly enough time.

                My best M-101 image to date had 15 minutes at f/3.3 for the L frame
                and I also should have increased the exposure time to reduce noise.

                Charlie

                --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Phillida Hutcheson" <pch01@a...>
                wrote:
                > Please look at the image at
                http://www.astropch.com/astronomyweb/recent_image_1.htm I am new at
                this and would like some feedback.
                >
                > Thanks ... Phillida
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Phillida Hutcheson
                Mark, Thank you! Below are some more details about equipment ect. I have also added this information to my web site.I hope this is enough information. Please
                Message 7 of 26 , May 29, 2003
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                  Mark,

                  Thank you! Below are some more details about equipment ect. I have also added this information to my web site.I hope this is enough information. Please let me know.

                  Equipment: I operated the telescope remotely via the Internet using remote software from Software Bisque, the equipment housed at New Mexico Skies at an elevation of 7,300 feet.. The telescope is a Celestron C14 and Takahashai 90 mounted on a Paramount ME with a SBIG ST-1001E/1001XE CCD camera. Exposure: Unguided, -9.79 C, and 45 seconds each in the luminance, red, green, and blue frames. Processing was done with CCDSoft version 5.

                  Phillida

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Mark de Regt
                  To: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 3:24 PM
                  Subject: RE: [ccd-newastro] Another M101 to comment on


                  Phillida,

                  That's a good image! Your guiding is good, with nice round stars, and you
                  have some nice detail, including dust lanes near the core.

                  You didn't tell us anything about your equipment, exposure or processing.
                  It looks like you may need some more exposure, and you may have
                  over-sharpened a bit (either or both would help explain the noise in the
                  background). Also, the color is too magenta, I think, which could be caused
                  by many things.

                  Phillida, you have done very, very well.

                  Mark de Regt
                  Redmond, Washington, USA

                  47.696270 N.
                  122.004715 W.
                  Astro Images: http://home.earthlink.net/~akilla/MAD


                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: Phillida Hutcheson [mailto:pch01@...]
                  > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 12:08 PM
                  > To: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: [ccd-newastro] Another M101 to comment on
                  >
                  >
                  > Please look at the image at
                  > http://www.astropch.com/astronomyweb/recent_image_1.htm I am new
                  > at this and would like some feedback.
                  >
                  > Thanks ... Phillida
                  >


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                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Phillida Hutcheson
                  Thanks Charley! I will try a longer exposure next time. The 45 seconds was just a quess. Phillida ... From: jilouus To: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com Sent:
                  Message 8 of 26 , May 29, 2003
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                    Thanks Charley! I will try a longer exposure next time. The 45 seconds was just a quess.

                    Phillida
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: jilouus
                    To: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 8:52 PM
                    Subject: [ccd-newastro] Re: Another M101 to comment on


                    I think that the image could be greatly improved by increasing your
                    exposure time. I don't think that 45 seconds is nearly enough time.

                    My best M-101 image to date had 15 minutes at f/3.3 for the L frame
                    and I also should have increased the exposure time to reduce noise.

                    Charlie

                    --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Phillida Hutcheson" <pch01@a...>
                    wrote:
                    > Please look at the image at
                    http://www.astropch.com/astronomyweb/recent_image_1.htm I am new at
                    this and would like some feedback.
                    >
                    > Thanks ... Phillida
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Phillida Hutcheson
                    Ed, Thanks! Next time I do M101 I ll try L:R:G:B of 5:2:3:3 minutes and see what happens Phillida ... From: clearviewh To: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com Sent:
                    Message 9 of 26 , May 29, 2003
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                      Ed,

                      Thanks! Next time I do M101 I'll try L:R:G:B of 5:2:3:3 minutes and see what happens

                      Phillida
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: clearviewh
                      To: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 8:46 PM
                      Subject: [ccd-newastro] Re: Another M101 to comment on


                      Ahh, you used Ron's stuff :>) no wonder the tracking was so good.
                      Ok then, in order to get better images you need MORE exposure time.
                      Generally, I think for that setup, the 14 in that is, 5 min exposers
                      are about right. Also, you need to take longer green and blue than
                      red shoot for a ratio of R:G:B 1:1.5:1.5 So, the next time you try
                      it, shoot for say......3x5 min for the red, and 3x7.5 min for the
                      green and blue, and take as many Luminance exposures as you have time
                      for. As an example, with my LX200 12 in and ST8XE, I generally take
                      the following ratios made up of 10 and 15 min exposures
                      L:R:G:B 120:60:90:90 min Hope this helps
                      Ed
                      --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Phillida Hutcheson"
                      <pch01@a...> wrote:
                      > Ed,
                      >
                      > Sorry about leaving out the information about the equipment and
                      exposure details. Here it is I will also add it to the web site with
                      the image also.
                      >
                      > Equipment: I operated the telescope remotely via the Internet using
                      remote software from Software Bisque, the equipment housed at New
                      Mexico Skies at an elevation of 7,300 feet.. The telescope is a
                      Celestron C14 and Takahashai 90 mounted on a Paramount ME with a SBIG
                      ST-1001E/1001XE CCD camera. Exposure: Unguided, -9.79 C, and 45
                      seconds each in the luminance, red, green, and blue frames.
                      Processing was done with CCDSoft version 5.
                      >
                      > Phillida
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: clearviewh
                      > To: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com
                      > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 3:22 PM
                      > Subject: [ccd-newastro] Re: Another M101 to comment on
                      >
                      >
                      > -No one is ever going to laugh at images here Phillida, but we
                      WILL
                      > need more info to help you like the telescope you are using, the
                      > camera, and the length of exposure info
                      > Ed
                      >
                      > -- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Phillida Hutcheson"
                      <pch01@a...>
                      > wrote:
                      > > Please look at the image at
                      > http://www.astropch.com/astronomyweb/recent_image_1.htm I am new
                      at
                      > this and would like some feedback.
                      > >
                      > > Thanks ... Phillida
                      > >
                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      > ccd-newastro-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                      Service.
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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                    • Mark de Regt
                      Phillida, Thanks. I have dabbled with Ron s remote equipment, and it is first rate, and easy to use. I forget what his focal ratio is, but I think it s f/10.
                      Message 10 of 26 , May 29, 2003
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                        Phillida,

                        Thanks. I have dabbled with Ron's remote equipment, and it is first rate,
                        and easy to use. I forget what his focal ratio is, but I think it's f/10.

                        M101 has very low surface brightness. Assuming Ron's scope is an f/10 (and
                        it may be f/6.3, since he may use a reducer), in your shoes I would aim for
                        at least 50 minutes of total luminance exposure (assuming unbinned), made up
                        of maybe 5 minute individual images (with my 10", at f/12, and with an ST-8,
                        I would aim for at least 200 minutes, but I think you're binning, and I
                        think that the large pixels of the ST-1001 "image faster" than the smaller
                        pixels of the ST-7/8/10). I always counsel that, at the start, a new imager
                        resist the siren call of color imaging, since that only adds frustration.
                        When you are getting consistently good results with one channel, then add
                        the others.

                        Keep at it; you've made a good start. Once you get proficient, it really is
                        as easy to acquire the image as it seems with Ron's great setup, but, if you
                        ever image with your own scope/camera in your backyard, you will be
                        surprised how hard things like focusing and tracking are at the start.

                        --Mark

                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: Phillida Hutcheson [mailto:pch01@...]
                        > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 5:58 PM
                        > To: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: Re: [ccd-newastro] Another M101 to comment on
                        >
                        >
                        > Mark,
                        >
                        > Thank you! Below are some more details about equipment ect. I
                        > have also added this information to my web site.I hope this is
                        > enough information. Please let me know.
                        >
                        > Equipment: I operated the telescope remotely via the Internet
                        > using remote software from Software Bisque, the equipment housed
                        > at New Mexico Skies at an elevation of 7,300 feet.. The telescope
                        > is a Celestron C14 and Takahashai 90 mounted on a Paramount ME
                        > with a SBIG ST-1001E/1001XE CCD camera. Exposure: Unguided,
                        > -9.79 C, and 45 seconds each in the luminance, red, green, and
                        > blue frames. Processing was done with CCDSoft version 5.
                        >
                        > Phillida
                        >
                        > ----- Original Message -----
                        > From: Mark de Regt
                        > To: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com
                        > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 3:24 PM
                        > Subject: RE: [ccd-newastro] Another M101 to comment on
                        >
                        >
                        > Phillida,
                        >
                        > That's a good image! Your guiding is good, with nice round
                        > stars, and you
                        > have some nice detail, including dust lanes near the core.
                        >
                        > You didn't tell us anything about your equipment, exposure or
                        > processing.
                        > It looks like you may need some more exposure, and you may have
                        > over-sharpened a bit (either or both would help explain the noise in the
                        > background). Also, the color is too magenta, I think, which
                        > could be caused
                        > by many things.
                        >
                        > Phillida, you have done very, very well.
                        >
                        > Mark de Regt
                        > Redmond, Washington, USA
                        >
                        > 47.696270 N.
                        > 122.004715 W.
                        > Astro Images: http://home.earthlink.net/~akilla/MAD
                        >
                        >
                        > > -----Original Message-----
                        > > From: Phillida Hutcheson [mailto:pch01@...]
                        > > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 12:08 PM
                        > > To: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com
                        > > Subject: [ccd-newastro] Another M101 to comment on
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Please look at the image at
                        > > http://www.astropch.com/astronomyweb/recent_image_1.htm I am new
                        > > at this and would like some feedback.
                        > >
                        > > Thanks ... Phillida
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                        >
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                        >
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                        >
                        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                        >
                      • Phillida Hutcheson
                        Mark, Thank you for the compliment. Actually when I started the observing session I did not intend to produce color images. I intended to take several images
                        Message 11 of 26 , May 30, 2003
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                          Mark,

                          Thank you for the compliment.

                          Actually when I started the observing session I did not intend to produce color images. I intended to take several images to layer along with shooting some flats. That went faster than I planned so I thought I would try some color. Color as you say does have a siren call so I though what the heck. I actually made another color image that night of M63. It does remind me of a sunflower so I probably over did the yellow.it is at http://www.astropch.com/astronomyweb/recent_image_2.htm let me know what you think.

                          I am sure that using your own scope is more difficult. Unfortuantly for me its really out of the question.

                          Phillida
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: Mark de Regt
                          To: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 9:30 PM
                          Subject: RE: [ccd-newastro] Another M101 to comment on


                          Phillida,

                          Thanks. I have dabbled with Ron's remote equipment, and it is first rate,
                          and easy to use. I forget what his focal ratio is, but I think it's f/10.

                          M101 has very low surface brightness. Assuming Ron's scope is an f/10 (and
                          it may be f/6.3, since he may use a reducer), in your shoes I would aim for
                          at least 50 minutes of total luminance exposure (assuming unbinned), made up
                          of maybe 5 minute individual images (with my 10", at f/12, and with an ST-8,
                          I would aim for at least 200 minutes, but I think you're binning, and I
                          think that the large pixels of the ST-1001 "image faster" than the smaller
                          pixels of the ST-7/8/10). I always counsel that, at the start, a new imager
                          resist the siren call of color imaging, since that only adds frustration.
                          When you are getting consistently good results with one channel, then add
                          the others.

                          Keep at it; you've made a good start. Once you get proficient, it really is
                          as easy to acquire the image as it seems with Ron's great setup, but, if you
                          ever image with your own scope/camera in your backyard, you will be
                          surprised how hard things like focusing and tracking are at the start.

                          --Mark

                          > -----Original Message-----
                          > From: Phillida Hutcheson [mailto:pch01@...]
                          > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 5:58 PM
                          > To: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com
                          > Subject: Re: [ccd-newastro] Another M101 to comment on
                          >
                          >
                          > Mark,
                          >
                          > Thank you! Below are some more details about equipment ect. I
                          > have also added this information to my web site.I hope this is
                          > enough information. Please let me know.
                          >
                          > Equipment: I operated the telescope remotely via the Internet
                          > using remote software from Software Bisque, the equipment housed
                          > at New Mexico Skies at an elevation of 7,300 feet.. The telescope
                          > is a Celestron C14 and Takahashai 90 mounted on a Paramount ME
                          > with a SBIG ST-1001E/1001XE CCD camera. Exposure: Unguided,
                          > -9.79 C, and 45 seconds each in the luminance, red, green, and
                          > blue frames. Processing was done with CCDSoft version 5.
                          >
                          > Phillida
                          >
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: Mark de Regt
                          > To: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com
                          > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 3:24 PM
                          > Subject: RE: [ccd-newastro] Another M101 to comment on
                          >
                          >
                          > Phillida,
                          >
                          > That's a good image! Your guiding is good, with nice round
                          > stars, and you
                          > have some nice detail, including dust lanes near the core.
                          >
                          > You didn't tell us anything about your equipment, exposure or
                          > processing.
                          > It looks like you may need some more exposure, and you may have
                          > over-sharpened a bit (either or both would help explain the noise in the
                          > background). Also, the color is too magenta, I think, which
                          > could be caused
                          > by many things.
                          >
                          > Phillida, you have done very, very well.
                          >
                          > Mark de Regt
                          > Redmond, Washington, USA
                          >
                          > 47.696270 N.
                          > 122.004715 W.
                          > Astro Images: http://home.earthlink.net/~akilla/MAD
                          >
                          >
                          > > -----Original Message-----
                          > > From: Phillida Hutcheson [mailto:pch01@...]
                          > > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 12:08 PM
                          > > To: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com
                          > > Subject: [ccd-newastro] Another M101 to comment on
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Please look at the image at
                          > > http://www.astropch.com/astronomyweb/recent_image_1.htm I am new
                          > > at this and would like some feedback.
                          > >
                          > > Thanks ... Phillida
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                          >
                          >


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                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Mark de Regt
                          Phillida, I m glad that Ron s setup allows you to image when otherwise it would be impossible. It is a wonderful hobby. Your M63 is much like your M101; you
                          Message 12 of 26 , May 30, 2003
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Phillida,

                            I'm glad that Ron's setup allows you to image when otherwise it would be
                            impossible. It is a wonderful hobby.

                            Your M63 is much like your M101; you have good data, taken with a good
                            system. Processing will become easier with time, and you will learn how to
                            bring out detail in the core and the arms (it's a non-linear stretch of the
                            data, which you can do manually in a program like Photoshop, or somewhat
                            automatically with DDP, which is a routine available in some programs).
                            Also, more signal makes it easier to process without bringing out too much
                            noise.

                            Enjoy yourself; Ron's setup brings you a very high-end setup, and allows you
                            to spend almost all your time acquiring images, rather than the extra hours
                            I spend setting up, polar aligning, collimating, focusing and then taking
                            down at the end of the night.

                            Mark de Regt
                            Redmond, Washington, USA

                            47.696270 N.
                            122.004715 W.
                            Astro Images: http://home.earthlink.net/~akilla/MAD


                            > -----Original Message-----
                            > From: Phillida Hutcheson [mailto:pch01@...]
                            > Sent: Friday, May 30, 2003 12:19 PM
                            > To: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com
                            > Subject: Re: [ccd-newastro] Another M101 to comment on
                            >
                            >
                            > Mark,
                            >
                            > Thank you for the compliment.
                            >
                            > Actually when I started the observing session I did not intend to
                            > produce color images. I intended to take several images to layer
                            > along with shooting some flats. That went faster than I planned
                            > so I thought I would try some color. Color as you say does have a
                            > siren call so I though what the heck. I actually made another
                            > color image that night of M63. It does remind me of a sunflower
                            > so I probably over did the yellow.it is at
                            > http://www.astropch.com/astronomyweb/recent_image_2.htm let me
                            > know what you think.
                            >
                            > I am sure that using your own scope is more difficult.
                            > Unfortuantly for me its really out of the question.
                            >
                            > Phillida
                            > ----- Original Message -----
                            > From: Mark de Regt
                            > To: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com
                            > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 9:30 PM
                            > Subject: RE: [ccd-newastro] Another M101 to comment on
                            >
                            >
                            > Phillida,
                            >
                            > Thanks. I have dabbled with Ron's remote equipment, and it is
                            > first rate,
                            > and easy to use. I forget what his focal ratio is, but I think
                            > it's f/10.
                            >
                            > M101 has very low surface brightness. Assuming Ron's scope is
                            > an f/10 (and
                            > it may be f/6.3, since he may use a reducer), in your shoes I
                            > would aim for
                            > at least 50 minutes of total luminance exposure (assuming
                            > unbinned), made up
                            > of maybe 5 minute individual images (with my 10", at f/12, and
                            > with an ST-8,
                            > I would aim for at least 200 minutes, but I think you're binning, and I
                            > think that the large pixels of the ST-1001 "image faster" than
                            > the smaller
                            > pixels of the ST-7/8/10). I always counsel that, at the start,
                            > a new imager
                            > resist the siren call of color imaging, since that only adds
                            > frustration.
                            > When you are getting consistently good results with one
                            > channel, then add
                            > the others.
                            >
                            > Keep at it; you've made a good start. Once you get proficient,
                            > it really is
                            > as easy to acquire the image as it seems with Ron's great
                            > setup, but, if you
                            > ever image with your own scope/camera in your backyard, you will be
                            > surprised how hard things like focusing and tracking are at the start.
                            >
                            > --Mark
                            >
                            > > -----Original Message-----
                            > > From: Phillida Hutcheson [mailto:pch01@...]
                            > > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 5:58 PM
                            > > To: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com
                            > > Subject: Re: [ccd-newastro] Another M101 to comment on
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Mark,
                            > >
                            > > Thank you! Below are some more details about equipment ect. I
                            > > have also added this information to my web site.I hope this is
                            > > enough information. Please let me know.
                            > >
                            > > Equipment: I operated the telescope remotely via the Internet
                            > > using remote software from Software Bisque, the equipment housed
                            > > at New Mexico Skies at an elevation of 7,300 feet.. The telescope
                            > > is a Celestron C14 and Takahashai 90 mounted on a Paramount ME
                            > > with a SBIG ST-1001E/1001XE CCD camera. Exposure: Unguided,
                            > > -9.79 C, and 45 seconds each in the luminance, red, green, and
                            > > blue frames. Processing was done with CCDSoft version 5.
                            > >
                            > > Phillida
                            > >
                            > > ----- Original Message -----
                            > > From: Mark de Regt
                            > > To: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com
                            > > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 3:24 PM
                            > > Subject: RE: [ccd-newastro] Another M101 to comment on
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Phillida,
                            > >
                            > > That's a good image! Your guiding is good, with nice round
                            > > stars, and you
                            > > have some nice detail, including dust lanes near the core.
                            > >
                            > > You didn't tell us anything about your equipment, exposure or
                            > > processing.
                            > > It looks like you may need some more exposure, and you may have
                            > > over-sharpened a bit (either or both would help explain the
                            > noise in the
                            > > background). Also, the color is too magenta, I think, which
                            > > could be caused
                            > > by many things.
                            > >
                            > > Phillida, you have done very, very well.
                            > >
                            > > Mark de Regt
                            > > Redmond, Washington, USA
                            > >
                            > > 47.696270 N.
                            > > 122.004715 W.
                            > > Astro Images: http://home.earthlink.net/~akilla/MAD
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > > -----Original Message-----
                            > > > From: Phillida Hutcheson [mailto:pch01@...]
                            > > > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 12:08 PM
                            > > > To: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com
                            > > > Subject: [ccd-newastro] Another M101 to comment on
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > Please look at the image at
                            > > > http://www.astropch.com/astronomyweb/recent_image_1.htm I am new
                            > > > at this and would like some feedback.
                            > > >
                            > > > Thanks ... Phillida
                            > > >
                            > >
                            > >
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                            > >
                            > >
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                            > >
                            > >
                            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > >
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                          • Steve Reilly
                            Hey Ed, Instead of having to take different exposure times why not keep them the same, thus reducing the number of darks required, and adjust the color ratios?
                            Message 13 of 26 , May 31, 2003
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                              Hey Ed,

                              Instead of having to take different exposure times why not keep them the
                              same, thus reducing the number of darks required, and adjust the color
                              ratios?

                              Steve

                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: Phillida Hutcheson [mailto:pch01@...]
                              Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 9:19 PM
                              To: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [ccd-newastro] Re: Another M101 to comment on


                              Ed,

                              Thanks! Next time I do M101 I'll try L:R:G:B of 5:2:3:3 minutes and see
                              what happens

                              Phillida
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: clearviewh
                              To: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 8:46 PM
                              Subject: [ccd-newastro] Re: Another M101 to comment on


                              Ahh, you used Ron's stuff :>) no wonder the tracking was so good.
                              Ok then, in order to get better images you need MORE exposure time.
                              Generally, I think for that setup, the 14 in that is, 5 min exposers
                              are about right. Also, you need to take longer green and blue than
                              red shoot for a ratio of R:G:B 1:1.5:1.5 So, the next time you try
                              it, shoot for say......3x5 min for the red, and 3x7.5 min for the
                              green and blue, and take as many Luminance exposures as you have time
                              for. As an example, with my LX200 12 in and ST8XE, I generally take
                              the following ratios made up of 10 and 15 min exposures
                              L:R:G:B 120:60:90:90 min Hope this helps
                              Ed
                              --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Phillida Hutcheson"
                              <pch01@a...> wrote:
                              > Ed,
                              >
                              > Sorry about leaving out the information about the equipment and
                              exposure details. Here it is I will also add it to the web site with
                              the image also.
                              >
                              > Equipment: I operated the telescope remotely via the Internet using
                              remote software from Software Bisque, the equipment housed at New
                              Mexico Skies at an elevation of 7,300 feet.. The telescope is a
                              Celestron C14 and Takahashai 90 mounted on a Paramount ME with a SBIG
                              ST-1001E/1001XE CCD camera. Exposure: Unguided, -9.79 C, and 45
                              seconds each in the luminance, red, green, and blue frames.
                              Processing was done with CCDSoft version 5.
                              >
                              > Phillida
                              > ----- Original Message -----
                              > From: clearviewh
                              > To: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com
                              > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 3:22 PM
                              > Subject: [ccd-newastro] Re: Another M101 to comment on
                              >
                              >
                              > -No one is ever going to laugh at images here Phillida, but we
                              WILL
                              > need more info to help you like the telescope you are using, the
                              > camera, and the length of exposure info
                              > Ed
                              >
                              > -- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Phillida Hutcheson"
                              <pch01@a...>
                              > wrote:
                              > > Please look at the image at
                              > http://www.astropch.com/astronomyweb/recent_image_1.htm I am new
                              at
                              > this and would like some feedback.
                              > >
                              > > Thanks ... Phillida
                              > >
                              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              >
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                            • clearviewh
                              Yes, you CAN do that. Others, in particular, Adam Block at Kitt Peak always did that. I have always been chicken to try. The green and blue filters are darker
                              Message 14 of 26 , May 31, 2003
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Yes, you CAN do that. Others, in particular, Adam Block at Kitt Peak
                                always did that. I have always been chicken to try. The green and
                                blue filters are darker than the red and I like to take a longer
                                exposure to get a good signal. Although it is true that combining
                                images, say 9 X 10 min gives almost an equal S/N as say 15 X 6 min, I
                                think the latter does a better job. It WOULD make the job of darks
                                easier, but........... :<)
                                Ed

                                --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Reilly" <sreilly@d...>
                                wrote:
                                > Hey Ed,
                                >
                                > Instead of having to take different exposure times why not keep
                                them the
                                > same, thus reducing the number of darks required, and adjust the
                                color
                                > ratios?
                                >
                                > Steve
                                >
                                > -----Original Message-----
                                > From: Phillida Hutcheson [mailto:pch01@a...]
                                > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 9:19 PM
                                > To: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com
                                > Subject: Re: [ccd-newastro] Re: Another M101 to comment on
                                >
                                >
                                > Ed,
                                >
                                > Thanks! Next time I do M101 I'll try L:R:G:B of 5:2:3:3 minutes and
                                see
                                > what happens
                                >
                                > Phillida
                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                > From: clearviewh
                                > To: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com
                                > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 8:46 PM
                                > Subject: [ccd-newastro] Re: Another M101 to comment on
                                >
                                >
                                > Ahh, you used Ron's stuff :>) no wonder the tracking was so
                                good.
                                > Ok then, in order to get better images you need MORE exposure
                                time.
                                > Generally, I think for that setup, the 14 in that is, 5 min
                                exposers
                                > are about right. Also, you need to take longer green and blue
                                than
                                > red shoot for a ratio of R:G:B 1:1.5:1.5 So, the next time you
                                try
                                > it, shoot for say......3x5 min for the red, and 3x7.5 min for the
                                > green and blue, and take as many Luminance exposures as you have
                                time
                                > for. As an example, with my LX200 12 in and ST8XE, I generally
                                take
                                > the following ratios made up of 10 and 15 min exposures
                                > L:R:G:B 120:60:90:90 min Hope this helps
                                > Ed
                                > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Phillida Hutcheson"
                                > <pch01@a...> wrote:
                                > > Ed,
                                > >
                                > > Sorry about leaving out the information about the equipment and
                                > exposure details. Here it is I will also add it to the web site
                                with
                                > the image also.
                                > >
                                > > Equipment: I operated the telescope remotely via the Internet
                                using
                                > remote software from Software Bisque, the equipment housed at New
                                > Mexico Skies at an elevation of 7,300 feet.. The telescope is a
                                > Celestron C14 and Takahashai 90 mounted on a Paramount ME with a
                                SBIG
                                > ST-1001E/1001XE CCD camera. Exposure: Unguided, -9.79 C, and 45
                                > seconds each in the luminance, red, green, and blue frames.
                                > Processing was done with CCDSoft version 5.
                                > >
                                > > Phillida
                                > > ----- Original Message -----
                                > > From: clearviewh
                                > > To: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com
                                > > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 3:22 PM
                                > > Subject: [ccd-newastro] Re: Another M101 to comment on
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > -No one is ever going to laugh at images here Phillida, but
                                we
                                > WILL
                                > > need more info to help you like the telescope you are using,
                                the
                                > > camera, and the length of exposure info
                                > > Ed
                                > >
                                > > -- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Phillida Hutcheson"
                                > <pch01@a...>
                                > > wrote:
                                > > > Please look at the image at
                                > > http://www.astropch.com/astronomyweb/recent_image_1.htm I am
                                new
                                > at
                                > > this and would like some feedback.
                                > > >
                                > > > Thanks ... Phillida
                                > > >
                                > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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                              • clearviewh
                                Another thing to remember is what equipment you have. If you have a Tak., or an RC on a Paramount or AP., you can take some of the common shortcuts that
                                Message 15 of 26 , May 31, 2003
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                                  Another thing to remember is what equipment you have. If you have a
                                  Tak., or an RC on a Paramount or AP., you can take some of the common
                                  shortcuts that imagers do. I however have an LX200, and I can't
                                  afford the shortcuts. I need to do everything I can to INCREASE the
                                  quality of my images even if I only gain a slight amount with each
                                  little thing I do, the combination really helps
                                  Ed

                                  --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Reilly" <sreilly@d...>
                                  wrote:
                                  > Hey Ed,
                                  >
                                  > Instead of having to take different exposure times why not keep
                                  them the
                                  > same, thus reducing the number of darks required, and adjust the
                                  color
                                  > ratios?
                                  >
                                  > Steve
                                  >
                                  > -----Original Message-----
                                  > From: Phillida Hutcheson [mailto:pch01@a...]
                                  > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 9:19 PM
                                  > To: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Subject: Re: [ccd-newastro] Re: Another M101 to comment on
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Ed,
                                  >
                                  > Thanks! Next time I do M101 I'll try L:R:G:B of 5:2:3:3 minutes and
                                  see
                                  > what happens
                                  >
                                  > Phillida
                                  > ----- Original Message -----
                                  > From: clearviewh
                                  > To: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 8:46 PM
                                  > Subject: [ccd-newastro] Re: Another M101 to comment on
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Ahh, you used Ron's stuff :>) no wonder the tracking was so
                                  good.
                                  > Ok then, in order to get better images you need MORE exposure
                                  time.
                                  > Generally, I think for that setup, the 14 in that is, 5 min
                                  exposers
                                  > are about right. Also, you need to take longer green and blue
                                  than
                                  > red shoot for a ratio of R:G:B 1:1.5:1.5 So, the next time you
                                  try
                                  > it, shoot for say......3x5 min for the red, and 3x7.5 min for the
                                  > green and blue, and take as many Luminance exposures as you have
                                  time
                                  > for. As an example, with my LX200 12 in and ST8XE, I generally
                                  take
                                  > the following ratios made up of 10 and 15 min exposures
                                  > L:R:G:B 120:60:90:90 min Hope this helps
                                  > Ed
                                  > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Phillida Hutcheson"
                                  > <pch01@a...> wrote:
                                  > > Ed,
                                  > >
                                  > > Sorry about leaving out the information about the equipment and
                                  > exposure details. Here it is I will also add it to the web site
                                  with
                                  > the image also.
                                  > >
                                  > > Equipment: I operated the telescope remotely via the Internet
                                  using
                                  > remote software from Software Bisque, the equipment housed at New
                                  > Mexico Skies at an elevation of 7,300 feet.. The telescope is a
                                  > Celestron C14 and Takahashai 90 mounted on a Paramount ME with a
                                  SBIG
                                  > ST-1001E/1001XE CCD camera. Exposure: Unguided, -9.79 C, and 45
                                  > seconds each in the luminance, red, green, and blue frames.
                                  > Processing was done with CCDSoft version 5.
                                  > >
                                  > > Phillida
                                  > > ----- Original Message -----
                                  > > From: clearviewh
                                  > > To: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 3:22 PM
                                  > > Subject: [ccd-newastro] Re: Another M101 to comment on
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > -No one is ever going to laugh at images here Phillida, but
                                  we
                                  > WILL
                                  > > need more info to help you like the telescope you are using,
                                  the
                                  > > camera, and the length of exposure info
                                  > > Ed
                                  > >
                                  > > -- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Phillida Hutcheson"
                                  > <pch01@a...>
                                  > > wrote:
                                  > > > Please look at the image at
                                  > > http://www.astropch.com/astronomyweb/recent_image_1.htm I am
                                  new
                                  > at
                                  > > this and would like some feedback.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Thanks ... Phillida
                                  > > >
                                  > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                  > >
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                                • Randy Nulman
                                  Ed, I agree with you (I think Ron does as well). There s a relationship between signal and readout/sky noise (as defined by Stan Moore) that indicates longer
                                  Message 16 of 26 , May 31, 2003
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Ed,
                                    I agree with you (I think Ron does as well).
                                    There's a relationship between signal and readout/sky noise (as
                                    defined by Stan Moore) that indicates longer exposures in the blue
                                    result in better s/n overall. I think that it works for Adam due to
                                    his low level of light pollution...but the rest of us need to expose
                                    longer and deal with the "hassles" of additional darks.

                                    Incidentally, your recent images are quite nice and seem to verify
                                    this point.

                                    Regards,
                                    Randy Nulman

                                    --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "clearviewh" <clearview@c...>
                                    wrote:
                                    > Yes, you CAN do that. Others, in particular, Adam Block at Kitt
                                    Peak
                                    > always did that. I have always been chicken to try. The green and
                                    > blue filters are darker than the red and I like to take a longer
                                    > exposure to get a good signal. Although it is true that combining
                                    > images, say 9 X 10 min gives almost an equal S/N as say 15 X 6 min,
                                    I
                                    > think the latter does a better job. It WOULD make the job of darks
                                    > easier, but........... :<)
                                    > Ed
                                    >
                                    > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Reilly" <sreilly@d...>
                                    > wrote:
                                    > > Hey Ed,
                                    > >
                                    > > Instead of having to take different exposure times why not keep
                                    > them the
                                    > > same, thus reducing the number of darks required, and adjust the
                                    > color
                                    > > ratios?
                                    > >
                                    > > Steve
                                    > >
                                    > > -----Original Message-----
                                    > > From: Phillida Hutcheson [mailto:pch01@a...]
                                    > > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 9:19 PM
                                    > > To: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > Subject: Re: [ccd-newastro] Re: Another M101 to comment on
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > Ed,
                                    > >
                                    > > Thanks! Next time I do M101 I'll try L:R:G:B of 5:2:3:3 minutes
                                    and
                                    > see
                                    > > what happens
                                    > >
                                    > > Phillida
                                    > > ----- Original Message -----
                                    > > From: clearviewh
                                    > > To: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 8:46 PM
                                    > > Subject: [ccd-newastro] Re: Another M101 to comment on
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > Ahh, you used Ron's stuff :>) no wonder the tracking was so
                                    > good.
                                    > > Ok then, in order to get better images you need MORE exposure
                                    > time.
                                    > > Generally, I think for that setup, the 14 in that is, 5 min
                                    > exposers
                                    > > are about right. Also, you need to take longer green and blue
                                    > than
                                    > > red shoot for a ratio of R:G:B 1:1.5:1.5 So, the next time
                                    you
                                    > try
                                    > > it, shoot for say......3x5 min for the red, and 3x7.5 min for
                                    the
                                    > > green and blue, and take as many Luminance exposures as you
                                    have
                                    > time
                                    > > for. As an example, with my LX200 12 in and ST8XE, I generally
                                    > take
                                    > > the following ratios made up of 10 and 15 min exposures
                                    > > L:R:G:B 120:60:90:90 min Hope this helps
                                    > > Ed
                                    > > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Phillida Hutcheson"
                                    > > <pch01@a...> wrote:
                                    > > > Ed,
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Sorry about leaving out the information about the equipment
                                    and
                                    > > exposure details. Here it is I will also add it to the web site
                                    > with
                                    > > the image also.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Equipment: I operated the telescope remotely via the Internet
                                    > using
                                    > > remote software from Software Bisque, the equipment housed at
                                    New
                                    > > Mexico Skies at an elevation of 7,300 feet.. The telescope is a
                                    > > Celestron C14 and Takahashai 90 mounted on a Paramount ME with
                                    a
                                    > SBIG
                                    > > ST-1001E/1001XE CCD camera. Exposure: Unguided, -9.79 C, and
                                    45
                                    > > seconds each in the luminance, red, green, and blue frames.
                                    > > Processing was done with CCDSoft version 5.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Phillida
                                    > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                    > > > From: clearviewh
                                    > > > To: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 3:22 PM
                                    > > > Subject: [ccd-newastro] Re: Another M101 to comment on
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > -No one is ever going to laugh at images here Phillida, but
                                    > we
                                    > > WILL
                                    > > > need more info to help you like the telescope you are
                                    using,
                                    > the
                                    > > > camera, and the length of exposure info
                                    > > > Ed
                                    > > >
                                    > > > -- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Phillida Hutcheson"
                                    > > <pch01@a...>
                                    > > > wrote:
                                    > > > > Please look at the image at
                                    > > > http://www.astropch.com/astronomyweb/recent_image_1.htm I
                                    am
                                    > new
                                    > > at
                                    > > > this and would like some feedback.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Thanks ... Phillida
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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                                    > > >
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                                  • clearviewh
                                    I also found a way out...sort of....from the hassles of darks. When I am done imaging, I close the dome, turn everything off except the camera and computer and
                                    Message 17 of 26 , May 31, 2003
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      I also found a way out...sort of....from the hassles of darks. When I
                                      am done imaging, I close the dome, turn everything off except the
                                      camera and computer and take my darks while I go to bed. I have
                                      learned, from Ron, that the more darks the better and needing every
                                      advantage I can get, I set it up to take darks till dawn, sometimes
                                      20 or more, then get up early and turn everything else off. The
                                      question of different time darks is still a stickler since I don't
                                      script, but I HAVE been thinking I might be able to use CCDsoft's
                                      color routine to take different time darks. Oh sure, the filters
                                      would change as if I were taking color shots, but the camera wouldn't
                                      know <G>
                                      Ed

                                      --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Randy Nulman" <rj.nulman@v...>
                                      wrote:
                                      > Ed,
                                      > I agree with you (I think Ron does as well).
                                      > There's a relationship between signal and readout/sky noise (as
                                      > defined by Stan Moore) that indicates longer exposures in the blue
                                      > result in better s/n overall. I think that it works for Adam due
                                      to
                                      > his low level of light pollution...but the rest of us need to
                                      expose
                                      > longer and deal with the "hassles" of additional darks.
                                      >
                                      > Incidentally, your recent images are quite nice and seem to verify
                                      > this point.
                                      >
                                      > Regards,
                                      > Randy Nulman
                                      >
                                      > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "clearviewh" <clearview@c...>
                                      > wrote:
                                      > > Yes, you CAN do that. Others, in particular, Adam Block at Kitt
                                      > Peak
                                      > > always did that. I have always been chicken to try. The green and
                                      > > blue filters are darker than the red and I like to take a longer
                                      > > exposure to get a good signal. Although it is true that combining
                                      > > images, say 9 X 10 min gives almost an equal S/N as say 15 X 6
                                      min,
                                      > I
                                      > > think the latter does a better job. It WOULD make the job of
                                      darks
                                      > > easier, but........... :<)
                                      > > Ed
                                      > >
                                      > > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Reilly"
                                      <sreilly@d...>
                                      > > wrote:
                                      > > > Hey Ed,
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Instead of having to take different exposure times why not keep
                                      > > them the
                                      > > > same, thus reducing the number of darks required, and adjust
                                      the
                                      > > color
                                      > > > ratios?
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Steve
                                      > > >
                                      > > > -----Original Message-----
                                      > > > From: Phillida Hutcheson [mailto:pch01@a...]
                                      > > > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 9:19 PM
                                      > > > To: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com
                                      > > > Subject: Re: [ccd-newastro] Re: Another M101 to comment on
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Ed,
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Thanks! Next time I do M101 I'll try L:R:G:B of 5:2:3:3 minutes
                                      > and
                                      > > see
                                      > > > what happens
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Phillida
                                      > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                      > > > From: clearviewh
                                      > > > To: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com
                                      > > > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 8:46 PM
                                      > > > Subject: [ccd-newastro] Re: Another M101 to comment on
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Ahh, you used Ron's stuff :>) no wonder the tracking was so
                                      > > good.
                                      > > > Ok then, in order to get better images you need MORE exposure
                                      > > time.
                                      > > > Generally, I think for that setup, the 14 in that is, 5 min
                                      > > exposers
                                      > > > are about right. Also, you need to take longer green and blue
                                      > > than
                                      > > > red shoot for a ratio of R:G:B 1:1.5:1.5 So, the next time
                                      > you
                                      > > try
                                      > > > it, shoot for say......3x5 min for the red, and 3x7.5 min for
                                      > the
                                      > > > green and blue, and take as many Luminance exposures as you
                                      > have
                                      > > time
                                      > > > for. As an example, with my LX200 12 in and ST8XE, I
                                      generally
                                      > > take
                                      > > > the following ratios made up of 10 and 15 min exposures
                                      > > > L:R:G:B 120:60:90:90 min Hope this helps
                                      > > > Ed
                                      > > > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Phillida Hutcheson"
                                      > > > <pch01@a...> wrote:
                                      > > > > Ed,
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Sorry about leaving out the information about the equipment
                                      > and
                                      > > > exposure details. Here it is I will also add it to the web
                                      site
                                      > > with
                                      > > > the image also.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Equipment: I operated the telescope remotely via the
                                      Internet
                                      > > using
                                      > > > remote software from Software Bisque, the equipment housed at
                                      > New
                                      > > > Mexico Skies at an elevation of 7,300 feet.. The telescope is
                                      a
                                      > > > Celestron C14 and Takahashai 90 mounted on a Paramount ME
                                      with
                                      > a
                                      > > SBIG
                                      > > > ST-1001E/1001XE CCD camera. Exposure: Unguided, -9.79 C, and
                                      > 45
                                      > > > seconds each in the luminance, red, green, and blue frames.
                                      > > > Processing was done with CCDSoft version 5.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Phillida
                                      > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                      > > > > From: clearviewh
                                      > > > > To: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com
                                      > > > > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 3:22 PM
                                      > > > > Subject: [ccd-newastro] Re: Another M101 to comment on
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > -No one is ever going to laugh at images here Phillida,
                                      but
                                      > > we
                                      > > > WILL
                                      > > > > need more info to help you like the telescope you are
                                      > using,
                                      > > the
                                      > > > > camera, and the length of exposure info
                                      > > > > Ed
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > -- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Phillida Hutcheson"
                                      > > > <pch01@a...>
                                      > > > > wrote:
                                      > > > > > Please look at the image at
                                      > > > > http://www.astropch.com/astronomyweb/recent_image_1.htm I
                                      > am
                                      > > new
                                      > > > at
                                      > > > > this and would like some feedback.
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > Thanks ... Phillida
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                      > > > > ccd-newastro-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
                                      of
                                      > > > Service.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                      > > > ccd-newastro-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                      > > Service.
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
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                                      > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                    • Randy Nulman
                                      Good Point, But many of us are finding that taking dark libraries are quite sufficient. What you could do is take 10 darks per night for each
                                      Message 18 of 26 , May 31, 2003
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Good Point,
                                        But many of us are finding that taking dark "libraries" are quite
                                        sufficient. What you could do is take 10 darks per night for each
                                        exposure/temp/binning for a total of 3 nights (30 darks each). It's
                                        best to take each "sampling" over different nights to produce the
                                        best results. (Helps deal with the roving pixel issues)

                                        Then, you should find that the "library" will be good for a
                                        reasonable period. When you see that "funky" things are starting to
                                        happen, just delete the 10 oldest and replace with 10 "new"...you
                                        should only have to do this occassionally since the library holds up
                                        pretty well.

                                        Once done, this will eliminate the need for new darks taken on a
                                        nightly basis...just modify as needed....works pretty well.

                                        Regards,
                                        Randy Nulman




                                        --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "clearviewh" <clearview@c...>
                                        wrote:
                                        > I also found a way out...sort of....from the hassles of darks. When
                                        I
                                        > am done imaging, I close the dome, turn everything off except the
                                        > camera and computer and take my darks while I go to bed. I have
                                        > learned, from Ron, that the more darks the better and needing every
                                        > advantage I can get, I set it up to take darks till dawn, sometimes
                                        > 20 or more, then get up early and turn everything else off. The
                                        > question of different time darks is still a stickler since I don't
                                        > script, but I HAVE been thinking I might be able to use CCDsoft's
                                        > color routine to take different time darks. Oh sure, the filters
                                        > would change as if I were taking color shots, but the camera
                                        wouldn't
                                        > know <G>
                                        > Ed
                                        >
                                        > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Randy Nulman"
                                        <rj.nulman@v...>
                                        > wrote:
                                        > > Ed,
                                        > > I agree with you (I think Ron does as well).
                                        > > There's a relationship between signal and readout/sky noise (as
                                        > > defined by Stan Moore) that indicates longer exposures in the
                                        blue
                                        > > result in better s/n overall. I think that it works for Adam due
                                        > to
                                        > > his low level of light pollution...but the rest of us need to
                                        > expose
                                        > > longer and deal with the "hassles" of additional darks.
                                        > >
                                        > > Incidentally, your recent images are quite nice and seem to
                                        verify
                                        > > this point.
                                        > >
                                        > > Regards,
                                        > > Randy Nulman
                                        > >
                                        > > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "clearviewh"
                                        <clearview@c...>
                                        > > wrote:
                                        > > > Yes, you CAN do that. Others, in particular, Adam Block at Kitt
                                        > > Peak
                                        > > > always did that. I have always been chicken to try. The green
                                        and
                                        > > > blue filters are darker than the red and I like to take a
                                        longer
                                        > > > exposure to get a good signal. Although it is true that
                                        combining
                                        > > > images, say 9 X 10 min gives almost an equal S/N as say 15 X 6
                                        > min,
                                        > > I
                                        > > > think the latter does a better job. It WOULD make the job of
                                        > darks
                                        > > > easier, but........... :<)
                                        > > > Ed
                                        > > >
                                        > > > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Reilly"
                                        > <sreilly@d...>
                                        > > > wrote:
                                        > > > > Hey Ed,
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Instead of having to take different exposure times why not
                                        keep
                                        > > > them the
                                        > > > > same, thus reducing the number of darks required, and adjust
                                        > the
                                        > > > color
                                        > > > > ratios?
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Steve
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > -----Original Message-----
                                        > > > > From: Phillida Hutcheson [mailto:pch01@a...]
                                        > > > > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 9:19 PM
                                        > > > > To: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com
                                        > > > > Subject: Re: [ccd-newastro] Re: Another M101 to comment on
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Ed,
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Thanks! Next time I do M101 I'll try L:R:G:B of 5:2:3:3
                                        minutes
                                        > > and
                                        > > > see
                                        > > > > what happens
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Phillida
                                        > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                        > > > > From: clearviewh
                                        > > > > To: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com
                                        > > > > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 8:46 PM
                                        > > > > Subject: [ccd-newastro] Re: Another M101 to comment on
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Ahh, you used Ron's stuff :>) no wonder the tracking was
                                        so
                                        > > > good.
                                        > > > > Ok then, in order to get better images you need MORE
                                        exposure
                                        > > > time.
                                        > > > > Generally, I think for that setup, the 14 in that is, 5 min
                                        > > > exposers
                                        > > > > are about right. Also, you need to take longer green and
                                        blue
                                        > > > than
                                        > > > > red shoot for a ratio of R:G:B 1:1.5:1.5 So, the next
                                        time
                                        > > you
                                        > > > try
                                        > > > > it, shoot for say......3x5 min for the red, and 3x7.5 min
                                        for
                                        > > the
                                        > > > > green and blue, and take as many Luminance exposures as you
                                        > > have
                                        > > > time
                                        > > > > for. As an example, with my LX200 12 in and ST8XE, I
                                        > generally
                                        > > > take
                                        > > > > the following ratios made up of 10 and 15 min exposures
                                        > > > > L:R:G:B 120:60:90:90 min Hope this helps
                                        > > > > Ed
                                        > > > > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Phillida Hutcheson"
                                        > > > > <pch01@a...> wrote:
                                        > > > > > Ed,
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > Sorry about leaving out the information about the
                                        equipment
                                        > > and
                                        > > > > exposure details. Here it is I will also add it to the web
                                        > site
                                        > > > with
                                        > > > > the image also.
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > Equipment: I operated the telescope remotely via the
                                        > Internet
                                        > > > using
                                        > > > > remote software from Software Bisque, the equipment housed
                                        at
                                        > > New
                                        > > > > Mexico Skies at an elevation of 7,300 feet.. The telescope
                                        is
                                        > a
                                        > > > > Celestron C14 and Takahashai 90 mounted on a Paramount ME
                                        > with
                                        > > a
                                        > > > SBIG
                                        > > > > ST-1001E/1001XE CCD camera. Exposure: Unguided, -9.79 C,
                                        and
                                        > > 45
                                        > > > > seconds each in the luminance, red, green, and blue frames.
                                        > > > > Processing was done with CCDSoft version 5.
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > Phillida
                                        > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                        > > > > > From: clearviewh
                                        > > > > > To: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com
                                        > > > > > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 3:22 PM
                                        > > > > > Subject: [ccd-newastro] Re: Another M101 to comment on
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > -No one is ever going to laugh at images here Phillida,
                                        > but
                                        > > > we
                                        > > > > WILL
                                        > > > > > need more info to help you like the telescope you are
                                        > > using,
                                        > > > the
                                        > > > > > camera, and the length of exposure info
                                        > > > > > Ed
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > -- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Phillida
                                        Hutcheson"
                                        > > > > <pch01@a...>
                                        > > > > > wrote:
                                        > > > > > > Please look at the image at
                                        > > > > > http://www.astropch.com/astronomyweb/recent_image_1.htm
                                        I
                                        > > am
                                        > > > new
                                        > > > > at
                                        > > > > > this and would like some feedback.
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > Thanks ... Phillida
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                        > > > > >
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                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
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                                        > > > > > ccd-newastro-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
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                                        Terms
                                        > of
                                        > > > > Service.
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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                                      • clearviewh
                                        Yes, I HAVE considered that, and kind of do it anyway cause I save all the darks, although I have to search in the old files to find them, but I change setups
                                        Message 19 of 26 , May 31, 2003
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Yes, I HAVE considered that, and kind of do it anyway cause I save
                                          all the darks, although I have to search in the old files to find
                                          them, but I change setups so often, F5/F10, and binning, and the
                                          temp. changes so much here, that I would have to take an awfull LOT
                                          of darks. For instance, I had a lot of darks good for -20 and colder
                                          but now I can't get down below -15..Welcome to Wi. :>)

                                          --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Randy Nulman" <rj.nulman@v...>
                                          wrote:
                                          > Good Point,
                                          > But many of us are finding that taking dark "libraries" are quite
                                          > sufficient. What you could do is take 10 darks per night for each
                                          > exposure/temp/binning for a total of 3 nights (30 darks each).
                                          It's
                                          > best to take each "sampling" over different nights to produce the
                                          > best results. (Helps deal with the roving pixel issues)
                                          >
                                          > Then, you should find that the "library" will be good for a
                                          > reasonable period. When you see that "funky" things are starting
                                          to
                                          > happen, just delete the 10 oldest and replace with 10 "new"...you
                                          > should only have to do this occassionally since the library holds
                                          up
                                          > pretty well.
                                          >
                                          > Once done, this will eliminate the need for new darks taken on a
                                          > nightly basis...just modify as needed....works pretty well.
                                          >
                                          > Regards,
                                          > Randy Nulman
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "clearviewh" <clearview@c...>
                                          > wrote:
                                          > > I also found a way out...sort of....from the hassles of darks.
                                          When
                                          > I
                                          > > am done imaging, I close the dome, turn everything off except the
                                          > > camera and computer and take my darks while I go to bed. I have
                                          > > learned, from Ron, that the more darks the better and needing
                                          every
                                          > > advantage I can get, I set it up to take darks till dawn,
                                          sometimes
                                          > > 20 or more, then get up early and turn everything else off. The
                                          > > question of different time darks is still a stickler since I
                                          don't
                                          > > script, but I HAVE been thinking I might be able to use CCDsoft's
                                          > > color routine to take different time darks. Oh sure, the filters
                                          > > would change as if I were taking color shots, but the camera
                                          > wouldn't
                                          > > know <G>
                                          > > Ed
                                          > >
                                          > > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Randy Nulman"
                                          > <rj.nulman@v...>
                                          > > wrote:
                                          > > > Ed,
                                          > > > I agree with you (I think Ron does as well).
                                          > > > There's a relationship between signal and readout/sky noise (as
                                          > > > defined by Stan Moore) that indicates longer exposures in the
                                          > blue
                                          > > > result in better s/n overall. I think that it works for Adam
                                          due
                                          > > to
                                          > > > his low level of light pollution...but the rest of us need to
                                          > > expose
                                          > > > longer and deal with the "hassles" of additional darks.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Incidentally, your recent images are quite nice and seem to
                                          > verify
                                          > > > this point.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Regards,
                                          > > > Randy Nulman
                                          > > >
                                          > > > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "clearviewh"
                                          > <clearview@c...>
                                          > > > wrote:
                                          > > > > Yes, you CAN do that. Others, in particular, Adam Block at
                                          Kitt
                                          > > > Peak
                                          > > > > always did that. I have always been chicken to try. The green
                                          > and
                                          > > > > blue filters are darker than the red and I like to take a
                                          > longer
                                          > > > > exposure to get a good signal. Although it is true that
                                          > combining
                                          > > > > images, say 9 X 10 min gives almost an equal S/N as say 15 X
                                          6
                                          > > min,
                                          > > > I
                                          > > > > think the latter does a better job. It WOULD make the job of
                                          > > darks
                                          > > > > easier, but........... :<)
                                          > > > > Ed
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Reilly"
                                          > > <sreilly@d...>
                                          > > > > wrote:
                                          > > > > > Hey Ed,
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > Instead of having to take different exposure times why not
                                          > keep
                                          > > > > them the
                                          > > > > > same, thus reducing the number of darks required, and
                                          adjust
                                          > > the
                                          > > > > color
                                          > > > > > ratios?
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > Steve
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > -----Original Message-----
                                          > > > > > From: Phillida Hutcheson [mailto:pch01@a...]
                                          > > > > > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 9:19 PM
                                          > > > > > To: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com
                                          > > > > > Subject: Re: [ccd-newastro] Re: Another M101 to comment on
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > Ed,
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > Thanks! Next time I do M101 I'll try L:R:G:B of 5:2:3:3
                                          > minutes
                                          > > > and
                                          > > > > see
                                          > > > > > what happens
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > Phillida
                                          > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                          > > > > > From: clearviewh
                                          > > > > > To: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com
                                          > > > > > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 8:46 PM
                                          > > > > > Subject: [ccd-newastro] Re: Another M101 to comment on
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > Ahh, you used Ron's stuff :>) no wonder the tracking
                                          was
                                          > so
                                          > > > > good.
                                          > > > > > Ok then, in order to get better images you need MORE
                                          > exposure
                                          > > > > time.
                                          > > > > > Generally, I think for that setup, the 14 in that is, 5
                                          min
                                          > > > > exposers
                                          > > > > > are about right. Also, you need to take longer green and
                                          > blue
                                          > > > > than
                                          > > > > > red shoot for a ratio of R:G:B 1:1.5:1.5 So, the next
                                          > time
                                          > > > you
                                          > > > > try
                                          > > > > > it, shoot for say......3x5 min for the red, and 3x7.5 min
                                          > for
                                          > > > the
                                          > > > > > green and blue, and take as many Luminance exposures as
                                          you
                                          > > > have
                                          > > > > time
                                          > > > > > for. As an example, with my LX200 12 in and ST8XE, I
                                          > > generally
                                          > > > > take
                                          > > > > > the following ratios made up of 10 and 15 min exposures
                                          > > > > > L:R:G:B 120:60:90:90 min Hope this helps
                                          > > > > > Ed
                                          > > > > > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Phillida Hutcheson"
                                          > > > > > <pch01@a...> wrote:
                                          > > > > > > Ed,
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > Sorry about leaving out the information about the
                                          > equipment
                                          > > > and
                                          > > > > > exposure details. Here it is I will also add it to the
                                          web
                                          > > site
                                          > > > > with
                                          > > > > > the image also.
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > Equipment: I operated the telescope remotely via the
                                          > > Internet
                                          > > > > using
                                          > > > > > remote software from Software Bisque, the equipment
                                          housed
                                          > at
                                          > > > New
                                          > > > > > Mexico Skies at an elevation of 7,300 feet.. The
                                          telescope
                                          > is
                                          > > a
                                          > > > > > Celestron C14 and Takahashai 90 mounted on a Paramount ME
                                          > > with
                                          > > > a
                                          > > > > SBIG
                                          > > > > > ST-1001E/1001XE CCD camera. Exposure: Unguided, -9.79 C,
                                          > and
                                          > > > 45
                                          > > > > > seconds each in the luminance, red, green, and blue
                                          frames.
                                          > > > > > Processing was done with CCDSoft version 5.
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > Phillida
                                          > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                          > > > > > > From: clearviewh
                                          > > > > > > To: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com
                                          > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 3:22 PM
                                          > > > > > > Subject: [ccd-newastro] Re: Another M101 to comment on
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > -No one is ever going to laugh at images here
                                          Phillida,
                                          > > but
                                          > > > > we
                                          > > > > > WILL
                                          > > > > > > need more info to help you like the telescope you are
                                          > > > using,
                                          > > > > the
                                          > > > > > > camera, and the length of exposure info
                                          > > > > > > Ed
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > -- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Phillida
                                          > Hutcheson"
                                          > > > > > <pch01@a...>
                                          > > > > > > wrote:
                                          > > > > > > > Please look at the image at
                                          > > > > > >
                                          http://www.astropch.com/astronomyweb/recent_image_1.htm
                                          > I
                                          > > > am
                                          > > > > new
                                          > > > > > at
                                          > > > > > > this and would like some feedback.
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > Thanks ... Phillida
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                          removed]
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                          > > > > > > ccd-newastro-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                                          > Terms
                                          > > of
                                          > > > > > Service.
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                          > > > > > ccd-newastro-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
                                          of
                                          > > > > Service.
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                          > > > > > ccd-newastro-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                          > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                        • Randy Nulman
                                          I m experiencing the same thing...taking new darks to create a library for the warmer temps. I m starting to think that I will just have 2 librarys...one
                                          Message 20 of 26 , May 31, 2003
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            I'm experiencing the same thing...taking new darks to create
                                            a "library" for the warmer temps. I'm starting to think that I will
                                            just have 2 librarys...one for winter, and one for summer. Guess
                                            this will end up being a compromise between "reasonable" temps I can
                                            obtain during winter and summer...without "pushing" to obtain the
                                            abosolute "lowest" temps for each period...curious to know what you
                                            think about this solution.

                                            Randy

                                            --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "clearviewh" <clearview@c...>
                                            wrote:
                                            > Yes, I HAVE considered that, and kind of do it anyway cause I save
                                            > all the darks, although I have to search in the old files to find
                                            > them, but I change setups so often, F5/F10, and binning, and the
                                            > temp. changes so much here, that I would have to take an awfull LOT
                                            > of darks. For instance, I had a lot of darks good for -20 and
                                            colder
                                            > but now I can't get down below -15..Welcome to Wi. :>)
                                            >
                                            > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Randy Nulman"
                                            <rj.nulman@v...>
                                            > wrote:
                                            > > Good Point,
                                            > > But many of us are finding that taking dark "libraries" are quite
                                            > > sufficient. What you could do is take 10 darks per night for
                                            each
                                            > > exposure/temp/binning for a total of 3 nights (30 darks each).
                                            > It's
                                            > > best to take each "sampling" over different nights to produce the
                                            > > best results. (Helps deal with the roving pixel issues)
                                            > >
                                            > > Then, you should find that the "library" will be good for a
                                            > > reasonable period. When you see that "funky" things are starting
                                            > to
                                            > > happen, just delete the 10 oldest and replace with 10 "new"...you
                                            > > should only have to do this occassionally since the library holds
                                            > up
                                            > > pretty well.
                                            > >
                                            > > Once done, this will eliminate the need for new darks taken on a
                                            > > nightly basis...just modify as needed....works pretty well.
                                            > >
                                            > > Regards,
                                            > > Randy Nulman
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "clearviewh"
                                            <clearview@c...>
                                            > > wrote:
                                            > > > I also found a way out...sort of....from the hassles of darks.
                                            > When
                                            > > I
                                            > > > am done imaging, I close the dome, turn everything off except
                                            the
                                            > > > camera and computer and take my darks while I go to bed. I have
                                            > > > learned, from Ron, that the more darks the better and needing
                                            > every
                                            > > > advantage I can get, I set it up to take darks till dawn,
                                            > sometimes
                                            > > > 20 or more, then get up early and turn everything else off. The
                                            > > > question of different time darks is still a stickler since I
                                            > don't
                                            > > > script, but I HAVE been thinking I might be able to use
                                            CCDsoft's
                                            > > > color routine to take different time darks. Oh sure, the
                                            filters
                                            > > > would change as if I were taking color shots, but the camera
                                            > > wouldn't
                                            > > > know <G>
                                            > > > Ed
                                            > > >
                                            > > > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Randy Nulman"
                                            > > <rj.nulman@v...>
                                            > > > wrote:
                                            > > > > Ed,
                                            > > > > I agree with you (I think Ron does as well).
                                            > > > > There's a relationship between signal and readout/sky noise
                                            (as
                                            > > > > defined by Stan Moore) that indicates longer exposures in the
                                            > > blue
                                            > > > > result in better s/n overall. I think that it works for Adam
                                            > due
                                            > > > to
                                            > > > > his low level of light pollution...but the rest of us need to
                                            > > > expose
                                            > > > > longer and deal with the "hassles" of additional darks.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Incidentally, your recent images are quite nice and seem to
                                            > > verify
                                            > > > > this point.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Regards,
                                            > > > > Randy Nulman
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "clearviewh"
                                            > > <clearview@c...>
                                            > > > > wrote:
                                            > > > > > Yes, you CAN do that. Others, in particular, Adam Block at
                                            > Kitt
                                            > > > > Peak
                                            > > > > > always did that. I have always been chicken to try. The
                                            green
                                            > > and
                                            > > > > > blue filters are darker than the red and I like to take a
                                            > > longer
                                            > > > > > exposure to get a good signal. Although it is true that
                                            > > combining
                                            > > > > > images, say 9 X 10 min gives almost an equal S/N as say 15
                                            X
                                            > 6
                                            > > > min,
                                            > > > > I
                                            > > > > > think the latter does a better job. It WOULD make the job
                                            of
                                            > > > darks
                                            > > > > > easier, but........... :<)
                                            > > > > > Ed
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Reilly"
                                            > > > <sreilly@d...>
                                            > > > > > wrote:
                                            > > > > > > Hey Ed,
                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > Instead of having to take different exposure times why
                                            not
                                            > > keep
                                            > > > > > them the
                                            > > > > > > same, thus reducing the number of darks required, and
                                            > adjust
                                            > > > the
                                            > > > > > color
                                            > > > > > > ratios?
                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > Steve
                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
                                            > > > > > > From: Phillida Hutcheson [mailto:pch01@a...]
                                            > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 9:19 PM
                                            > > > > > > To: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com
                                            > > > > > > Subject: Re: [ccd-newastro] Re: Another M101 to comment on
                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > Ed,
                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > Thanks! Next time I do M101 I'll try L:R:G:B of 5:2:3:3
                                            > > minutes
                                            > > > > and
                                            > > > > > see
                                            > > > > > > what happens
                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > Phillida
                                            > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                            > > > > > > From: clearviewh
                                            > > > > > > To: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com
                                            > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 8:46 PM
                                            > > > > > > Subject: [ccd-newastro] Re: Another M101 to comment on
                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > Ahh, you used Ron's stuff :>) no wonder the tracking
                                            > was
                                            > > so
                                            > > > > > good.
                                            > > > > > > Ok then, in order to get better images you need MORE
                                            > > exposure
                                            > > > > > time.
                                            > > > > > > Generally, I think for that setup, the 14 in that is, 5
                                            > min
                                            > > > > > exposers
                                            > > > > > > are about right. Also, you need to take longer green
                                            and
                                            > > blue
                                            > > > > > than
                                            > > > > > > red shoot for a ratio of R:G:B 1:1.5:1.5 So, the
                                            next
                                            > > time
                                            > > > > you
                                            > > > > > try
                                            > > > > > > it, shoot for say......3x5 min for the red, and 3x7.5
                                            min
                                            > > for
                                            > > > > the
                                            > > > > > > green and blue, and take as many Luminance exposures as
                                            > you
                                            > > > > have
                                            > > > > > time
                                            > > > > > > for. As an example, with my LX200 12 in and ST8XE, I
                                            > > > generally
                                            > > > > > take
                                            > > > > > > the following ratios made up of 10 and 15 min exposures
                                            > > > > > > L:R:G:B 120:60:90:90 min Hope this helps
                                            > > > > > > Ed
                                            > > > > > > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Phillida
                                            Hutcheson"
                                            > > > > > > <pch01@a...> wrote:
                                            > > > > > > > Ed,
                                            > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > Sorry about leaving out the information about the
                                            > > equipment
                                            > > > > and
                                            > > > > > > exposure details. Here it is I will also add it to the
                                            > web
                                            > > > site
                                            > > > > > with
                                            > > > > > > the image also.
                                            > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > Equipment: I operated the telescope remotely via the
                                            > > > Internet
                                            > > > > > using
                                            > > > > > > remote software from Software Bisque, the equipment
                                            > housed
                                            > > at
                                            > > > > New
                                            > > > > > > Mexico Skies at an elevation of 7,300 feet.. The
                                            > telescope
                                            > > is
                                            > > > a
                                            > > > > > > Celestron C14 and Takahashai 90 mounted on a Paramount
                                            ME
                                            > > > with
                                            > > > > a
                                            > > > > > SBIG
                                            > > > > > > ST-1001E/1001XE CCD camera. Exposure: Unguided, -9.79
                                            C,
                                            > > and
                                            > > > > 45
                                            > > > > > > seconds each in the luminance, red, green, and blue
                                            > frames.
                                            > > > > > > Processing was done with CCDSoft version 5.
                                            > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > Phillida
                                            > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                            > > > > > > > From: clearviewh
                                            > > > > > > > To: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com
                                            > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 3:22 PM
                                            > > > > > > > Subject: [ccd-newastro] Re: Another M101 to comment
                                            on
                                            > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > -No one is ever going to laugh at images here
                                            > Phillida,
                                            > > > but
                                            > > > > > we
                                            > > > > > > WILL
                                            > > > > > > > need more info to help you like the telescope you
                                            are
                                            > > > > using,
                                            > > > > > the
                                            > > > > > > > camera, and the length of exposure info
                                            > > > > > > > Ed
                                            > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > -- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Phillida
                                            > > Hutcheson"
                                            > > > > > > <pch01@a...>
                                            > > > > > > > wrote:
                                            > > > > > > > > Please look at the image at
                                            > > > > > > >
                                            > http://www.astropch.com/astronomyweb/recent_image_1.htm
                                            > > I
                                            > > > > am
                                            > > > > > new
                                            > > > > > > at
                                            > > > > > > > this and would like some feedback.
                                            > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > Thanks ... Phillida
                                            > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                            > removed]
                                            > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                            > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                            > > > > > > > ccd-newastro-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                                            > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
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                                            > > > of
                                            > > > > > > Service.
                                            > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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                                            Terms
                                            > of
                                            > > > > > Service.
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                                            > > > > > >
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                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                            > > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                          • Randy Nulman
                                            Also, you mentioned the difference between F5 and F10...this shouldn t affect you dark library...just your flats...do you agree? Randy Nulman ... colder ...
                                            Message 21 of 26 , May 31, 2003
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                                              Also, you mentioned the difference between F5 and F10...this
                                              shouldn't affect you dark library...just your flats...do you agree?

                                              Randy Nulman

                                              --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "clearviewh" <clearview@c...>
                                              wrote:
                                              > Yes, I HAVE considered that, and kind of do it anyway cause I save
                                              > all the darks, although I have to search in the old files to find
                                              > them, but I change setups so often, F5/F10, and binning, and the
                                              > temp. changes so much here, that I would have to take an awfull LOT
                                              > of darks. For instance, I had a lot of darks good for -20 and
                                              colder
                                              > but now I can't get down below -15..Welcome to Wi. :>)
                                              >
                                              > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Randy Nulman"
                                              <rj.nulman@v...>
                                              > wrote:
                                              > > Good Point,
                                              > > But many of us are finding that taking dark "libraries" are quite
                                              > > sufficient. What you could do is take 10 darks per night for
                                              each
                                              > > exposure/temp/binning for a total of 3 nights (30 darks each).
                                              > It's
                                              > > best to take each "sampling" over different nights to produce the
                                              > > best results. (Helps deal with the roving pixel issues)
                                              > >
                                              > > Then, you should find that the "library" will be good for a
                                              > > reasonable period. When you see that "funky" things are starting
                                              > to
                                              > > happen, just delete the 10 oldest and replace with 10 "new"...you
                                              > > should only have to do this occassionally since the library holds
                                              > up
                                              > > pretty well.
                                              > >
                                              > > Once done, this will eliminate the need for new darks taken on a
                                              > > nightly basis...just modify as needed....works pretty well.
                                              > >
                                              > > Regards,
                                              > > Randy Nulman
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "clearviewh"
                                              <clearview@c...>
                                              > > wrote:
                                              > > > I also found a way out...sort of....from the hassles of darks.
                                              > When
                                              > > I
                                              > > > am done imaging, I close the dome, turn everything off except
                                              the
                                              > > > camera and computer and take my darks while I go to bed. I have
                                              > > > learned, from Ron, that the more darks the better and needing
                                              > every
                                              > > > advantage I can get, I set it up to take darks till dawn,
                                              > sometimes
                                              > > > 20 or more, then get up early and turn everything else off. The
                                              > > > question of different time darks is still a stickler since I
                                              > don't
                                              > > > script, but I HAVE been thinking I might be able to use
                                              CCDsoft's
                                              > > > color routine to take different time darks. Oh sure, the
                                              filters
                                              > > > would change as if I were taking color shots, but the camera
                                              > > wouldn't
                                              > > > know <G>
                                              > > > Ed
                                              > > >
                                              > > > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Randy Nulman"
                                              > > <rj.nulman@v...>
                                              > > > wrote:
                                              > > > > Ed,
                                              > > > > I agree with you (I think Ron does as well).
                                              > > > > There's a relationship between signal and readout/sky noise
                                              (as
                                              > > > > defined by Stan Moore) that indicates longer exposures in the
                                              > > blue
                                              > > > > result in better s/n overall. I think that it works for Adam
                                              > due
                                              > > > to
                                              > > > > his low level of light pollution...but the rest of us need to
                                              > > > expose
                                              > > > > longer and deal with the "hassles" of additional darks.
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > Incidentally, your recent images are quite nice and seem to
                                              > > verify
                                              > > > > this point.
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > Regards,
                                              > > > > Randy Nulman
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "clearviewh"
                                              > > <clearview@c...>
                                              > > > > wrote:
                                              > > > > > Yes, you CAN do that. Others, in particular, Adam Block at
                                              > Kitt
                                              > > > > Peak
                                              > > > > > always did that. I have always been chicken to try. The
                                              green
                                              > > and
                                              > > > > > blue filters are darker than the red and I like to take a
                                              > > longer
                                              > > > > > exposure to get a good signal. Although it is true that
                                              > > combining
                                              > > > > > images, say 9 X 10 min gives almost an equal S/N as say 15
                                              X
                                              > 6
                                              > > > min,
                                              > > > > I
                                              > > > > > think the latter does a better job. It WOULD make the job
                                              of
                                              > > > darks
                                              > > > > > easier, but........... :<)
                                              > > > > > Ed
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Reilly"
                                              > > > <sreilly@d...>
                                              > > > > > wrote:
                                              > > > > > > Hey Ed,
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > Instead of having to take different exposure times why
                                              not
                                              > > keep
                                              > > > > > them the
                                              > > > > > > same, thus reducing the number of darks required, and
                                              > adjust
                                              > > > the
                                              > > > > > color
                                              > > > > > > ratios?
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > Steve
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
                                              > > > > > > From: Phillida Hutcheson [mailto:pch01@a...]
                                              > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 9:19 PM
                                              > > > > > > To: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com
                                              > > > > > > Subject: Re: [ccd-newastro] Re: Another M101 to comment on
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > Ed,
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > Thanks! Next time I do M101 I'll try L:R:G:B of 5:2:3:3
                                              > > minutes
                                              > > > > and
                                              > > > > > see
                                              > > > > > > what happens
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > Phillida
                                              > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                              > > > > > > From: clearviewh
                                              > > > > > > To: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com
                                              > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 8:46 PM
                                              > > > > > > Subject: [ccd-newastro] Re: Another M101 to comment on
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > Ahh, you used Ron's stuff :>) no wonder the tracking
                                              > was
                                              > > so
                                              > > > > > good.
                                              > > > > > > Ok then, in order to get better images you need MORE
                                              > > exposure
                                              > > > > > time.
                                              > > > > > > Generally, I think for that setup, the 14 in that is, 5
                                              > min
                                              > > > > > exposers
                                              > > > > > > are about right. Also, you need to take longer green
                                              and
                                              > > blue
                                              > > > > > than
                                              > > > > > > red shoot for a ratio of R:G:B 1:1.5:1.5 So, the
                                              next
                                              > > time
                                              > > > > you
                                              > > > > > try
                                              > > > > > > it, shoot for say......3x5 min for the red, and 3x7.5
                                              min
                                              > > for
                                              > > > > the
                                              > > > > > > green and blue, and take as many Luminance exposures as
                                              > you
                                              > > > > have
                                              > > > > > time
                                              > > > > > > for. As an example, with my LX200 12 in and ST8XE, I
                                              > > > generally
                                              > > > > > take
                                              > > > > > > the following ratios made up of 10 and 15 min exposures
                                              > > > > > > L:R:G:B 120:60:90:90 min Hope this helps
                                              > > > > > > Ed
                                              > > > > > > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Phillida
                                              Hutcheson"
                                              > > > > > > <pch01@a...> wrote:
                                              > > > > > > > Ed,
                                              > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > Sorry about leaving out the information about the
                                              > > equipment
                                              > > > > and
                                              > > > > > > exposure details. Here it is I will also add it to the
                                              > web
                                              > > > site
                                              > > > > > with
                                              > > > > > > the image also.
                                              > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > Equipment: I operated the telescope remotely via the
                                              > > > Internet
                                              > > > > > using
                                              > > > > > > remote software from Software Bisque, the equipment
                                              > housed
                                              > > at
                                              > > > > New
                                              > > > > > > Mexico Skies at an elevation of 7,300 feet.. The
                                              > telescope
                                              > > is
                                              > > > a
                                              > > > > > > Celestron C14 and Takahashai 90 mounted on a Paramount
                                              ME
                                              > > > with
                                              > > > > a
                                              > > > > > SBIG
                                              > > > > > > ST-1001E/1001XE CCD camera. Exposure: Unguided, -9.79
                                              C,
                                              > > and
                                              > > > > 45
                                              > > > > > > seconds each in the luminance, red, green, and blue
                                              > frames.
                                              > > > > > > Processing was done with CCDSoft version 5.
                                              > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > Phillida
                                              > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                              > > > > > > > From: clearviewh
                                              > > > > > > > To: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com
                                              > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 3:22 PM
                                              > > > > > > > Subject: [ccd-newastro] Re: Another M101 to comment
                                              on
                                              > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > -No one is ever going to laugh at images here
                                              > Phillida,
                                              > > > but
                                              > > > > > we
                                              > > > > > > WILL
                                              > > > > > > > need more info to help you like the telescope you
                                              are
                                              > > > > using,
                                              > > > > > the
                                              > > > > > > > camera, and the length of exposure info
                                              > > > > > > > Ed
                                              > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > -- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Phillida
                                              > > Hutcheson"
                                              > > > > > > <pch01@a...>
                                              > > > > > > > wrote:
                                              > > > > > > > > Please look at the image at
                                              > > > > > > >
                                              > http://www.astropch.com/astronomyweb/recent_image_1.htm
                                              > > I
                                              > > > > am
                                              > > > > > new
                                              > > > > > > at
                                              > > > > > > > this and would like some feedback.
                                              > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > Thanks ... Phillida
                                              > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                              > removed]
                                              > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                              > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                              > > > > > > > ccd-newastro-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                                              > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                                              > > Terms
                                              > > > of
                                              > > > > > > Service.
                                              > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                              > > > > > > ccd-newastro-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                                              Terms
                                              > of
                                              > > > > > Service.
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > >
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                                              > > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                            • clearviewh
                                              I m sure it is a good idea if they hold up from year to year, again though, I ve learned that I have to take every advantage to get images that I am satisfied
                                              Message 22 of 26 , May 31, 2003
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                I'm sure it is a good idea if they hold up from year to year, again
                                                though, I've learned that I have to take every advantage to get
                                                images that I am satisfied with, so I DO push the coldest temp.
                                                also, in order to keep my wife talking to me, I don't go out there on
                                                cloudy nights and I never like to waste a clear one by taking just
                                                darks :<)

                                                --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Randy Nulman" <rj.nulman@v...>
                                                wrote:
                                                > I'm experiencing the same thing...taking new darks to create
                                                > a "library" for the warmer temps. I'm starting to think that I
                                                will
                                                > just have 2 librarys...one for winter, and one for summer. Guess
                                                > this will end up being a compromise between "reasonable" temps I
                                                can
                                                > obtain during winter and summer...without "pushing" to obtain the
                                                > abosolute "lowest" temps for each period...curious to know what you
                                                > think about this solution.
                                                >
                                                > Randy
                                                >
                                                > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "clearviewh" <clearview@c...>
                                                > wrote:
                                                > > Yes, I HAVE considered that, and kind of do it anyway cause I
                                                save
                                                > > all the darks, although I have to search in the old files to find
                                                > > them, but I change setups so often, F5/F10, and binning, and the
                                                > > temp. changes so much here, that I would have to take an awfull
                                                LOT
                                                > > of darks. For instance, I had a lot of darks good for -20 and
                                                > colder
                                                > > but now I can't get down below -15..Welcome to Wi. :>)
                                                > >
                                                > > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Randy Nulman"
                                                > <rj.nulman@v...>
                                                > > wrote:
                                                > > > Good Point,
                                                > > > But many of us are finding that taking dark "libraries" are
                                                quite
                                                > > > sufficient. What you could do is take 10 darks per night for
                                                > each
                                                > > > exposure/temp/binning for a total of 3 nights (30 darks each).
                                                > > It's
                                                > > > best to take each "sampling" over different nights to produce
                                                the
                                                > > > best results. (Helps deal with the roving pixel issues)
                                                > > >
                                                > > > Then, you should find that the "library" will be good for a
                                                > > > reasonable period. When you see that "funky" things are
                                                starting
                                                > > to
                                                > > > happen, just delete the 10 oldest and replace with
                                                10 "new"...you
                                                > > > should only have to do this occassionally since the library
                                                holds
                                                > > up
                                                > > > pretty well.
                                                > > >
                                                > > > Once done, this will eliminate the need for new darks taken on
                                                a
                                                > > > nightly basis...just modify as needed....works pretty well.
                                                > > >
                                                > > > Regards,
                                                > > > Randy Nulman
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "clearviewh"
                                                > <clearview@c...>
                                                > > > wrote:
                                                > > > > I also found a way out...sort of....from the hassles of
                                                darks.
                                                > > When
                                                > > > I
                                                > > > > am done imaging, I close the dome, turn everything off except
                                                > the
                                                > > > > camera and computer and take my darks while I go to bed. I
                                                have
                                                > > > > learned, from Ron, that the more darks the better and needing
                                                > > every
                                                > > > > advantage I can get, I set it up to take darks till dawn,
                                                > > sometimes
                                                > > > > 20 or more, then get up early and turn everything else off.
                                                The
                                                > > > > question of different time darks is still a stickler since I
                                                > > don't
                                                > > > > script, but I HAVE been thinking I might be able to use
                                                > CCDsoft's
                                                > > > > color routine to take different time darks. Oh sure, the
                                                > filters
                                                > > > > would change as if I were taking color shots, but the camera
                                                > > > wouldn't
                                                > > > > know <G>
                                                > > > > Ed
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Randy Nulman"
                                                > > > <rj.nulman@v...>
                                                > > > > wrote:
                                                > > > > > Ed,
                                                > > > > > I agree with you (I think Ron does as well).
                                                > > > > > There's a relationship between signal and readout/sky noise
                                                > (as
                                                > > > > > defined by Stan Moore) that indicates longer exposures in
                                                the
                                                > > > blue
                                                > > > > > result in better s/n overall. I think that it works for
                                                Adam
                                                > > due
                                                > > > > to
                                                > > > > > his low level of light pollution...but the rest of us need
                                                to
                                                > > > > expose
                                                > > > > > longer and deal with the "hassles" of additional darks.
                                                > > > > >
                                                > > > > > Incidentally, your recent images are quite nice and seem to
                                                > > > verify
                                                > > > > > this point.
                                                > > > > >
                                                > > > > > Regards,
                                                > > > > > Randy Nulman
                                                > > > > >
                                                > > > > > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "clearviewh"
                                                > > > <clearview@c...>
                                                > > > > > wrote:
                                                > > > > > > Yes, you CAN do that. Others, in particular, Adam Block
                                                at
                                                > > Kitt
                                                > > > > > Peak
                                                > > > > > > always did that. I have always been chicken to try. The
                                                > green
                                                > > > and
                                                > > > > > > blue filters are darker than the red and I like to take a
                                                > > > longer
                                                > > > > > > exposure to get a good signal. Although it is true that
                                                > > > combining
                                                > > > > > > images, say 9 X 10 min gives almost an equal S/N as say
                                                15
                                                > X
                                                > > 6
                                                > > > > min,
                                                > > > > > I
                                                > > > > > > think the latter does a better job. It WOULD make the job
                                                > of
                                                > > > > darks
                                                > > > > > > easier, but........... :<)
                                                > > > > > > Ed
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Reilly"
                                                > > > > <sreilly@d...>
                                                > > > > > > wrote:
                                                > > > > > > > Hey Ed,
                                                > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > Instead of having to take different exposure times why
                                                > not
                                                > > > keep
                                                > > > > > > them the
                                                > > > > > > > same, thus reducing the number of darks required, and
                                                > > adjust
                                                > > > > the
                                                > > > > > > color
                                                > > > > > > > ratios?
                                                > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > Steve
                                                > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
                                                > > > > > > > From: Phillida Hutcheson [mailto:pch01@a...]
                                                > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 9:19 PM
                                                > > > > > > > To: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com
                                                > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [ccd-newastro] Re: Another M101 to comment
                                                on
                                                > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > Ed,
                                                > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > Thanks! Next time I do M101 I'll try L:R:G:B of 5:2:3:3
                                                > > > minutes
                                                > > > > > and
                                                > > > > > > see
                                                > > > > > > > what happens
                                                > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > Phillida
                                                > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                > > > > > > > From: clearviewh
                                                > > > > > > > To: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com
                                                > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 8:46 PM
                                                > > > > > > > Subject: [ccd-newastro] Re: Another M101 to comment on
                                                > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > Ahh, you used Ron's stuff :>) no wonder the
                                                tracking
                                                > > was
                                                > > > so
                                                > > > > > > good.
                                                > > > > > > > Ok then, in order to get better images you need MORE
                                                > > > exposure
                                                > > > > > > time.
                                                > > > > > > > Generally, I think for that setup, the 14 in that is,
                                                5
                                                > > min
                                                > > > > > > exposers
                                                > > > > > > > are about right. Also, you need to take longer green
                                                > and
                                                > > > blue
                                                > > > > > > than
                                                > > > > > > > red shoot for a ratio of R:G:B 1:1.5:1.5 So, the
                                                > next
                                                > > > time
                                                > > > > > you
                                                > > > > > > try
                                                > > > > > > > it, shoot for say......3x5 min for the red, and 3x7.5
                                                > min
                                                > > > for
                                                > > > > > the
                                                > > > > > > > green and blue, and take as many Luminance exposures
                                                as
                                                > > you
                                                > > > > > have
                                                > > > > > > time
                                                > > > > > > > for. As an example, with my LX200 12 in and ST8XE, I
                                                > > > > generally
                                                > > > > > > take
                                                > > > > > > > the following ratios made up of 10 and 15 min
                                                exposures
                                                > > > > > > > L:R:G:B 120:60:90:90 min Hope this helps
                                                > > > > > > > Ed
                                                > > > > > > > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Phillida
                                                > Hutcheson"
                                                > > > > > > > <pch01@a...> wrote:
                                                > > > > > > > > Ed,
                                                > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > Sorry about leaving out the information about the
                                                > > > equipment
                                                > > > > > and
                                                > > > > > > > exposure details. Here it is I will also add it to
                                                the
                                                > > web
                                                > > > > site
                                                > > > > > > with
                                                > > > > > > > the image also.
                                                > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > Equipment: I operated the telescope remotely via
                                                the
                                                > > > > Internet
                                                > > > > > > using
                                                > > > > > > > remote software from Software Bisque, the equipment
                                                > > housed
                                                > > > at
                                                > > > > > New
                                                > > > > > > > Mexico Skies at an elevation of 7,300 feet.. The
                                                > > telescope
                                                > > > is
                                                > > > > a
                                                > > > > > > > Celestron C14 and Takahashai 90 mounted on a
                                                Paramount
                                                > ME
                                                > > > > with
                                                > > > > > a
                                                > > > > > > SBIG
                                                > > > > > > > ST-1001E/1001XE CCD camera. Exposure: Unguided, -
                                                9.79
                                                > C,
                                                > > > and
                                                > > > > > 45
                                                > > > > > > > seconds each in the luminance, red, green, and blue
                                                > > frames.
                                                > > > > > > > Processing was done with CCDSoft version 5.
                                                > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > Phillida
                                                > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                > > > > > > > > From: clearviewh
                                                > > > > > > > > To: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com
                                                > > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 3:22 PM
                                                > > > > > > > > Subject: [ccd-newastro] Re: Another M101 to
                                                comment
                                                > on
                                                > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > -No one is ever going to laugh at images here
                                                > > Phillida,
                                                > > > > but
                                                > > > > > > we
                                                > > > > > > > WILL
                                                > > > > > > > > need more info to help you like the telescope you
                                                > are
                                                > > > > > using,
                                                > > > > > > the
                                                > > > > > > > > camera, and the length of exposure info
                                                > > > > > > > > Ed
                                                > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > -- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Phillida
                                                > > > Hutcheson"
                                                > > > > > > > <pch01@a...>
                                                > > > > > > > > wrote:
                                                > > > > > > > > > Please look at the image at
                                                > > > > > > > >
                                                > > http://www.astropch.com/astronomyweb/recent_image_1.htm
                                                > > > I
                                                > > > > > am
                                                > > > > > > new
                                                > > > > > > > at
                                                > > > > > > > > this and would like some feedback.
                                                > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > Thanks ... Phillida
                                                > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                                > > removed]
                                                > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > >
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                                              • clearviewh
                                                Yes of course you are right LOL LOL It s just when I switch between F5 and F10, my binning changes s ... save ... LOT ... quite ... the ... starting ...
                                                Message 23 of 26 , May 31, 2003
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                                                  Yes of course you are right LOL LOL It's just when I switch
                                                  between F5 and F10, my binning changes "s"

                                                  --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Randy Nulman" <rj.nulman@v...>
                                                  wrote:
                                                  > Also, you mentioned the difference between F5 and F10...this
                                                  > shouldn't affect you dark library...just your flats...do you agree?
                                                  >
                                                  > Randy Nulman
                                                  >
                                                  > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "clearviewh" <clearview@c...>
                                                  > wrote:
                                                  > > Yes, I HAVE considered that, and kind of do it anyway cause I
                                                  save
                                                  > > all the darks, although I have to search in the old files to find
                                                  > > them, but I change setups so often, F5/F10, and binning, and the
                                                  > > temp. changes so much here, that I would have to take an awfull
                                                  LOT
                                                  > > of darks. For instance, I had a lot of darks good for -20 and
                                                  > colder
                                                  > > but now I can't get down below -15..Welcome to Wi. :>)
                                                  > >
                                                  > > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Randy Nulman"
                                                  > <rj.nulman@v...>
                                                  > > wrote:
                                                  > > > Good Point,
                                                  > > > But many of us are finding that taking dark "libraries" are
                                                  quite
                                                  > > > sufficient. What you could do is take 10 darks per night for
                                                  > each
                                                  > > > exposure/temp/binning for a total of 3 nights (30 darks each).
                                                  > > It's
                                                  > > > best to take each "sampling" over different nights to produce
                                                  the
                                                  > > > best results. (Helps deal with the roving pixel issues)
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > Then, you should find that the "library" will be good for a
                                                  > > > reasonable period. When you see that "funky" things are
                                                  starting
                                                  > > to
                                                  > > > happen, just delete the 10 oldest and replace with
                                                  10 "new"...you
                                                  > > > should only have to do this occassionally since the library
                                                  holds
                                                  > > up
                                                  > > > pretty well.
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > Once done, this will eliminate the need for new darks taken on
                                                  a
                                                  > > > nightly basis...just modify as needed....works pretty well.
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > Regards,
                                                  > > > Randy Nulman
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "clearviewh"
                                                  > <clearview@c...>
                                                  > > > wrote:
                                                  > > > > I also found a way out...sort of....from the hassles of
                                                  darks.
                                                  > > When
                                                  > > > I
                                                  > > > > am done imaging, I close the dome, turn everything off except
                                                  > the
                                                  > > > > camera and computer and take my darks while I go to bed. I
                                                  have
                                                  > > > > learned, from Ron, that the more darks the better and needing
                                                  > > every
                                                  > > > > advantage I can get, I set it up to take darks till dawn,
                                                  > > sometimes
                                                  > > > > 20 or more, then get up early and turn everything else off.
                                                  The
                                                  > > > > question of different time darks is still a stickler since I
                                                  > > don't
                                                  > > > > script, but I HAVE been thinking I might be able to use
                                                  > CCDsoft's
                                                  > > > > color routine to take different time darks. Oh sure, the
                                                  > filters
                                                  > > > > would change as if I were taking color shots, but the camera
                                                  > > > wouldn't
                                                  > > > > know <G>
                                                  > > > > Ed
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Randy Nulman"
                                                  > > > <rj.nulman@v...>
                                                  > > > > wrote:
                                                  > > > > > Ed,
                                                  > > > > > I agree with you (I think Ron does as well).
                                                  > > > > > There's a relationship between signal and readout/sky noise
                                                  > (as
                                                  > > > > > defined by Stan Moore) that indicates longer exposures in
                                                  the
                                                  > > > blue
                                                  > > > > > result in better s/n overall. I think that it works for
                                                  Adam
                                                  > > due
                                                  > > > > to
                                                  > > > > > his low level of light pollution...but the rest of us need
                                                  to
                                                  > > > > expose
                                                  > > > > > longer and deal with the "hassles" of additional darks.
                                                  > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > Incidentally, your recent images are quite nice and seem to
                                                  > > > verify
                                                  > > > > > this point.
                                                  > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > Regards,
                                                  > > > > > Randy Nulman
                                                  > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "clearviewh"
                                                  > > > <clearview@c...>
                                                  > > > > > wrote:
                                                  > > > > > > Yes, you CAN do that. Others, in particular, Adam Block
                                                  at
                                                  > > Kitt
                                                  > > > > > Peak
                                                  > > > > > > always did that. I have always been chicken to try. The
                                                  > green
                                                  > > > and
                                                  > > > > > > blue filters are darker than the red and I like to take a
                                                  > > > longer
                                                  > > > > > > exposure to get a good signal. Although it is true that
                                                  > > > combining
                                                  > > > > > > images, say 9 X 10 min gives almost an equal S/N as say
                                                  15
                                                  > X
                                                  > > 6
                                                  > > > > min,
                                                  > > > > > I
                                                  > > > > > > think the latter does a better job. It WOULD make the job
                                                  > of
                                                  > > > > darks
                                                  > > > > > > easier, but........... :<)
                                                  > > > > > > Ed
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Reilly"
                                                  > > > > <sreilly@d...>
                                                  > > > > > > wrote:
                                                  > > > > > > > Hey Ed,
                                                  > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > Instead of having to take different exposure times why
                                                  > not
                                                  > > > keep
                                                  > > > > > > them the
                                                  > > > > > > > same, thus reducing the number of darks required, and
                                                  > > adjust
                                                  > > > > the
                                                  > > > > > > color
                                                  > > > > > > > ratios?
                                                  > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > Steve
                                                  > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
                                                  > > > > > > > From: Phillida Hutcheson [mailto:pch01@a...]
                                                  > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 9:19 PM
                                                  > > > > > > > To: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com
                                                  > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [ccd-newastro] Re: Another M101 to comment
                                                  on
                                                  > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > Ed,
                                                  > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > Thanks! Next time I do M101 I'll try L:R:G:B of 5:2:3:3
                                                  > > > minutes
                                                  > > > > > and
                                                  > > > > > > see
                                                  > > > > > > > what happens
                                                  > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > Phillida
                                                  > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                  > > > > > > > From: clearviewh
                                                  > > > > > > > To: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com
                                                  > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 8:46 PM
                                                  > > > > > > > Subject: [ccd-newastro] Re: Another M101 to comment on
                                                  > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > Ahh, you used Ron's stuff :>) no wonder the
                                                  tracking
                                                  > > was
                                                  > > > so
                                                  > > > > > > good.
                                                  > > > > > > > Ok then, in order to get better images you need MORE
                                                  > > > exposure
                                                  > > > > > > time.
                                                  > > > > > > > Generally, I think for that setup, the 14 in that is,
                                                  5
                                                  > > min
                                                  > > > > > > exposers
                                                  > > > > > > > are about right. Also, you need to take longer green
                                                  > and
                                                  > > > blue
                                                  > > > > > > than
                                                  > > > > > > > red shoot for a ratio of R:G:B 1:1.5:1.5 So, the
                                                  > next
                                                  > > > time
                                                  > > > > > you
                                                  > > > > > > try
                                                  > > > > > > > it, shoot for say......3x5 min for the red, and 3x7.5
                                                  > min
                                                  > > > for
                                                  > > > > > the
                                                  > > > > > > > green and blue, and take as many Luminance exposures
                                                  as
                                                  > > you
                                                  > > > > > have
                                                  > > > > > > time
                                                  > > > > > > > for. As an example, with my LX200 12 in and ST8XE, I
                                                  > > > > generally
                                                  > > > > > > take
                                                  > > > > > > > the following ratios made up of 10 and 15 min
                                                  exposures
                                                  > > > > > > > L:R:G:B 120:60:90:90 min Hope this helps
                                                  > > > > > > > Ed
                                                  > > > > > > > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Phillida
                                                  > Hutcheson"
                                                  > > > > > > > <pch01@a...> wrote:
                                                  > > > > > > > > Ed,
                                                  > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > Sorry about leaving out the information about the
                                                  > > > equipment
                                                  > > > > > and
                                                  > > > > > > > exposure details. Here it is I will also add it to
                                                  the
                                                  > > web
                                                  > > > > site
                                                  > > > > > > with
                                                  > > > > > > > the image also.
                                                  > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > Equipment: I operated the telescope remotely via
                                                  the
                                                  > > > > Internet
                                                  > > > > > > using
                                                  > > > > > > > remote software from Software Bisque, the equipment
                                                  > > housed
                                                  > > > at
                                                  > > > > > New
                                                  > > > > > > > Mexico Skies at an elevation of 7,300 feet.. The
                                                  > > telescope
                                                  > > > is
                                                  > > > > a
                                                  > > > > > > > Celestron C14 and Takahashai 90 mounted on a
                                                  Paramount
                                                  > ME
                                                  > > > > with
                                                  > > > > > a
                                                  > > > > > > SBIG
                                                  > > > > > > > ST-1001E/1001XE CCD camera. Exposure: Unguided, -
                                                  9.79
                                                  > C,
                                                  > > > and
                                                  > > > > > 45
                                                  > > > > > > > seconds each in the luminance, red, green, and blue
                                                  > > frames.
                                                  > > > > > > > Processing was done with CCDSoft version 5.
                                                  > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > Phillida
                                                  > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                  > > > > > > > > From: clearviewh
                                                  > > > > > > > > To: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com
                                                  > > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 3:22 PM
                                                  > > > > > > > > Subject: [ccd-newastro] Re: Another M101 to
                                                  comment
                                                  > on
                                                  > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > -No one is ever going to laugh at images here
                                                  > > Phillida,
                                                  > > > > but
                                                  > > > > > > we
                                                  > > > > > > > WILL
                                                  > > > > > > > > need more info to help you like the telescope you
                                                  > are
                                                  > > > > > using,
                                                  > > > > > > the
                                                  > > > > > > > > camera, and the length of exposure info
                                                  > > > > > > > > Ed
                                                  > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > -- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Phillida
                                                  > > > Hutcheson"
                                                  > > > > > > > <pch01@a...>
                                                  > > > > > > > > wrote:
                                                  > > > > > > > > > Please look at the image at
                                                  > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > http://www.astropch.com/astronomyweb/recent_image_1.htm
                                                  > > > I
                                                  > > > > > am
                                                  > > > > > > new
                                                  > > > > > > > at
                                                  > > > > > > > > this and would like some feedback.
                                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > Thanks ... Phillida
                                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                                  > > removed]
                                                  > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > >
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                                                • Randy Nulman
                                                  Regarding your last 2 messages, I see your point. I ve tried to get my wife to participate but rarely happens! I understand your desire to cool as much
                                                  Message 24 of 26 , May 31, 2003
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    Regarding your last 2 messages, I see your point. I've tried to get
                                                    my wife to "participate" but rarely happens! I understand your
                                                    desire to "cool" as much as possible to eliminate noise...I just
                                                    thought there might be a time/benefit to this as opposed to finding
                                                    a "reasonable compromise" regarding temps. Also, I understand your
                                                    requirements regarding binning/not binning depending on the FL/F
                                                    ratio. Bottom line is that one can't argue with success... you're
                                                    producing some top notch images...and maybe compromising some of
                                                    these issues would detract from your results? (Guess there's a lot to
                                                    be learned here!)

                                                    Randy Nulman

                                                    --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "clearviewh" <clearview@c...>
                                                    wrote:
                                                    > Yes of course you are right LOL LOL It's just when I switch
                                                    > between F5 and F10, my binning changes "s"
                                                    >
                                                    > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Randy Nulman"
                                                    <rj.nulman@v...>
                                                    > wrote:
                                                    > > Also, you mentioned the difference between F5 and F10...this
                                                    > > shouldn't affect you dark library...just your flats...do you
                                                    agree?
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Randy Nulman
                                                    > >
                                                    > > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "clearviewh"
                                                    <clearview@c...>
                                                    > > wrote:
                                                    > > > Yes, I HAVE considered that, and kind of do it anyway cause I
                                                    > save
                                                    > > > all the darks, although I have to search in the old files to
                                                    find
                                                    > > > them, but I change setups so often, F5/F10, and binning, and
                                                    the
                                                    > > > temp. changes so much here, that I would have to take an awfull
                                                    > LOT
                                                    > > > of darks. For instance, I had a lot of darks good for -20 and
                                                    > > colder
                                                    > > > but now I can't get down below -15..Welcome to Wi. :>)
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Randy Nulman"
                                                    > > <rj.nulman@v...>
                                                    > > > wrote:
                                                    > > > > Good Point,
                                                    > > > > But many of us are finding that taking dark "libraries" are
                                                    > quite
                                                    > > > > sufficient. What you could do is take 10 darks per night for
                                                    > > each
                                                    > > > > exposure/temp/binning for a total of 3 nights (30 darks
                                                    each).
                                                    > > > It's
                                                    > > > > best to take each "sampling" over different nights to produce
                                                    > the
                                                    > > > > best results. (Helps deal with the roving pixel issues)
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > > Then, you should find that the "library" will be good for a
                                                    > > > > reasonable period. When you see that "funky" things are
                                                    > starting
                                                    > > > to
                                                    > > > > happen, just delete the 10 oldest and replace with
                                                    > 10 "new"...you
                                                    > > > > should only have to do this occassionally since the library
                                                    > holds
                                                    > > > up
                                                    > > > > pretty well.
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > > Once done, this will eliminate the need for new darks taken
                                                    on
                                                    > a
                                                    > > > > nightly basis...just modify as needed....works pretty well.
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > > Regards,
                                                    > > > > Randy Nulman
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "clearviewh"
                                                    > > <clearview@c...>
                                                    > > > > wrote:
                                                    > > > > > I also found a way out...sort of....from the hassles of
                                                    > darks.
                                                    > > > When
                                                    > > > > I
                                                    > > > > > am done imaging, I close the dome, turn everything off
                                                    except
                                                    > > the
                                                    > > > > > camera and computer and take my darks while I go to bed. I
                                                    > have
                                                    > > > > > learned, from Ron, that the more darks the better and
                                                    needing
                                                    > > > every
                                                    > > > > > advantage I can get, I set it up to take darks till dawn,
                                                    > > > sometimes
                                                    > > > > > 20 or more, then get up early and turn everything else off.
                                                    > The
                                                    > > > > > question of different time darks is still a stickler since
                                                    I
                                                    > > > don't
                                                    > > > > > script, but I HAVE been thinking I might be able to use
                                                    > > CCDsoft's
                                                    > > > > > color routine to take different time darks. Oh sure, the
                                                    > > filters
                                                    > > > > > would change as if I were taking color shots, but the
                                                    camera
                                                    > > > > wouldn't
                                                    > > > > > know <G>
                                                    > > > > > Ed
                                                    > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Randy Nulman"
                                                    > > > > <rj.nulman@v...>
                                                    > > > > > wrote:
                                                    > > > > > > Ed,
                                                    > > > > > > I agree with you (I think Ron does as well).
                                                    > > > > > > There's a relationship between signal and readout/sky
                                                    noise
                                                    > > (as
                                                    > > > > > > defined by Stan Moore) that indicates longer exposures in
                                                    > the
                                                    > > > > blue
                                                    > > > > > > result in better s/n overall. I think that it works for
                                                    > Adam
                                                    > > > due
                                                    > > > > > to
                                                    > > > > > > his low level of light pollution...but the rest of us
                                                    need
                                                    > to
                                                    > > > > > expose
                                                    > > > > > > longer and deal with the "hassles" of additional darks.
                                                    > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > Incidentally, your recent images are quite nice and seem
                                                    to
                                                    > > > > verify
                                                    > > > > > > this point.
                                                    > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > Regards,
                                                    > > > > > > Randy Nulman
                                                    > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "clearviewh"
                                                    > > > > <clearview@c...>
                                                    > > > > > > wrote:
                                                    > > > > > > > Yes, you CAN do that. Others, in particular, Adam Block
                                                    > at
                                                    > > > Kitt
                                                    > > > > > > Peak
                                                    > > > > > > > always did that. I have always been chicken to try. The
                                                    > > green
                                                    > > > > and
                                                    > > > > > > > blue filters are darker than the red and I like to take
                                                    a
                                                    > > > > longer
                                                    > > > > > > > exposure to get a good signal. Although it is true that
                                                    > > > > combining
                                                    > > > > > > > images, say 9 X 10 min gives almost an equal S/N as say
                                                    > 15
                                                    > > X
                                                    > > > 6
                                                    > > > > > min,
                                                    > > > > > > I
                                                    > > > > > > > think the latter does a better job. It WOULD make the
                                                    job
                                                    > > of
                                                    > > > > > darks
                                                    > > > > > > > easier, but........... :<)
                                                    > > > > > > > Ed
                                                    > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Reilly"
                                                    > > > > > <sreilly@d...>
                                                    > > > > > > > wrote:
                                                    > > > > > > > > Hey Ed,
                                                    > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > > Instead of having to take different exposure times
                                                    why
                                                    > > not
                                                    > > > > keep
                                                    > > > > > > > them the
                                                    > > > > > > > > same, thus reducing the number of darks required, and
                                                    > > > adjust
                                                    > > > > > the
                                                    > > > > > > > color
                                                    > > > > > > > > ratios?
                                                    > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > > Steve
                                                    > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
                                                    > > > > > > > > From: Phillida Hutcheson [mailto:pch01@a...]
                                                    > > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 9:19 PM
                                                    > > > > > > > > To: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com
                                                    > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [ccd-newastro] Re: Another M101 to
                                                    comment
                                                    > on
                                                    > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > > Ed,
                                                    > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > > Thanks! Next time I do M101 I'll try L:R:G:B of
                                                    5:2:3:3
                                                    > > > > minutes
                                                    > > > > > > and
                                                    > > > > > > > see
                                                    > > > > > > > > what happens
                                                    > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > > Phillida
                                                    > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                    > > > > > > > > From: clearviewh
                                                    > > > > > > > > To: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com
                                                    > > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 8:46 PM
                                                    > > > > > > > > Subject: [ccd-newastro] Re: Another M101 to comment
                                                    on
                                                    > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > > Ahh, you used Ron's stuff :>) no wonder the
                                                    > tracking
                                                    > > > was
                                                    > > > > so
                                                    > > > > > > > good.
                                                    > > > > > > > > Ok then, in order to get better images you need
                                                    MORE
                                                    > > > > exposure
                                                    > > > > > > > time.
                                                    > > > > > > > > Generally, I think for that setup, the 14 in that
                                                    is,
                                                    > 5
                                                    > > > min
                                                    > > > > > > > exposers
                                                    > > > > > > > > are about right. Also, you need to take longer
                                                    green
                                                    > > and
                                                    > > > > blue
                                                    > > > > > > > than
                                                    > > > > > > > > red shoot for a ratio of R:G:B 1:1.5:1.5 So, the
                                                    > > next
                                                    > > > > time
                                                    > > > > > > you
                                                    > > > > > > > try
                                                    > > > > > > > > it, shoot for say......3x5 min for the red, and
                                                    3x7.5
                                                    > > min
                                                    > > > > for
                                                    > > > > > > the
                                                    > > > > > > > > green and blue, and take as many Luminance
                                                    exposures
                                                    > as
                                                    > > > you
                                                    > > > > > > have
                                                    > > > > > > > time
                                                    > > > > > > > > for. As an example, with my LX200 12 in and ST8XE,
                                                    I
                                                    > > > > > generally
                                                    > > > > > > > take
                                                    > > > > > > > > the following ratios made up of 10 and 15 min
                                                    > exposures
                                                    > > > > > > > > L:R:G:B 120:60:90:90 min Hope this helps
                                                    > > > > > > > > Ed
                                                    > > > > > > > > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Phillida
                                                    > > Hutcheson"
                                                    > > > > > > > > <pch01@a...> wrote:
                                                    > > > > > > > > > Ed,
                                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > > > Sorry about leaving out the information about the
                                                    > > > > equipment
                                                    > > > > > > and
                                                    > > > > > > > > exposure details. Here it is I will also add it to
                                                    > the
                                                    > > > web
                                                    > > > > > site
                                                    > > > > > > > with
                                                    > > > > > > > > the image also.
                                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > > > Equipment: I operated the telescope remotely via
                                                    > the
                                                    > > > > > Internet
                                                    > > > > > > > using
                                                    > > > > > > > > remote software from Software Bisque, the equipment
                                                    > > > housed
                                                    > > > > at
                                                    > > > > > > New
                                                    > > > > > > > > Mexico Skies at an elevation of 7,300 feet.. The
                                                    > > > telescope
                                                    > > > > is
                                                    > > > > > a
                                                    > > > > > > > > Celestron C14 and Takahashai 90 mounted on a
                                                    > Paramount
                                                    > > ME
                                                    > > > > > with
                                                    > > > > > > a
                                                    > > > > > > > SBIG
                                                    > > > > > > > > ST-1001E/1001XE CCD camera. Exposure: Unguided, -
                                                    > 9.79
                                                    > > C,
                                                    > > > > and
                                                    > > > > > > 45
                                                    > > > > > > > > seconds each in the luminance, red, green, and blue
                                                    > > > frames.
                                                    > > > > > > > > Processing was done with CCDSoft version 5.
                                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > > > Phillida
                                                    > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                    > > > > > > > > > From: clearviewh
                                                    > > > > > > > > > To: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com
                                                    > > > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 3:22 PM
                                                    > > > > > > > > > Subject: [ccd-newastro] Re: Another M101 to
                                                    > comment
                                                    > > on
                                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > > > -No one is ever going to laugh at images here
                                                    > > > Phillida,
                                                    > > > > > but
                                                    > > > > > > > we
                                                    > > > > > > > > WILL
                                                    > > > > > > > > > need more info to help you like the telescope
                                                    you
                                                    > > are
                                                    > > > > > > using,
                                                    > > > > > > > the
                                                    > > > > > > > > > camera, and the length of exposure info
                                                    > > > > > > > > > Ed
                                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > > > -- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Phillida
                                                    > > > > Hutcheson"
                                                    > > > > > > > > <pch01@a...>
                                                    > > > > > > > > > wrote:
                                                    > > > > > > > > > > Please look at the image at
                                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > http://www.astropch.com/astronomyweb/recent_image_1.htm
                                                    > > > > I
                                                    > > > > > > am
                                                    > > > > > > > new
                                                    > > > > > > > > at
                                                    > > > > > > > > > this and would like some feedback.
                                                    > > > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > > > > Thanks ... Phillida
                                                    > > > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                                    > > > removed]
                                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
                                                    to:
                                                    > > > > > > > > > ccd-newastro-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > > >
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                                                    > Yahoo!
                                                    > > > > Terms
                                                    > > > > > of
                                                    > > > > > > > > Service.
                                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
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                                                    > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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                                                    > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                                                    > > Terms
                                                    > > > of
                                                    > > > > > > > Service.
                                                    > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > >
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                                                  • clearviewh
                                                    Thanks Randy. I know my images are not bad for an LX200, but I really can t compete with all the money out there that people seem to have for RCs and
                                                    Message 25 of 26 , May 31, 2003
                                                    • 0 Attachment
                                                      Thanks Randy. I know my images are "not bad" for an LX200, but I
                                                      really can't compete with all the money out there that people seem to
                                                      have for RCs and Paramounts.....:<( I see an extrordinary image from
                                                      this guy or that and then I see he has a 16 in RC. on a Paramount and
                                                      lives out west....oh my.... LOL

                                                      --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Randy Nulman" <rj.nulman@v...>
                                                      wrote:
                                                      > Regarding your last 2 messages, I see your point. I've tried to
                                                      get
                                                      > my wife to "participate" but rarely happens! I understand your
                                                      > desire to "cool" as much as possible to eliminate noise...I just
                                                      > thought there might be a time/benefit to this as opposed to finding
                                                      > a "reasonable compromise" regarding temps. Also, I understand your
                                                      > requirements regarding binning/not binning depending on the FL/F
                                                      > ratio. Bottom line is that one can't argue with success... you're
                                                      > producing some top notch images...and maybe compromising some of
                                                      > these issues would detract from your results? (Guess there's a lot
                                                      to
                                                      > be learned here!)
                                                      >
                                                      > Randy Nulman
                                                      >
                                                      > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "clearviewh" <clearview@c...>
                                                      > wrote:
                                                      > > Yes of course you are right LOL LOL It's just when I switch
                                                      > > between F5 and F10, my binning changes "s"
                                                      > >
                                                      > > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Randy Nulman"
                                                      > <rj.nulman@v...>
                                                      > > wrote:
                                                      > > > Also, you mentioned the difference between F5 and F10...this
                                                      > > > shouldn't affect you dark library...just your flats...do you
                                                      > agree?
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > > Randy Nulman
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "clearviewh"
                                                      > <clearview@c...>
                                                      > > > wrote:
                                                      > > > > Yes, I HAVE considered that, and kind of do it anyway cause I
                                                      > > save
                                                      > > > > all the darks, although I have to search in the old files to
                                                      > find
                                                      > > > > them, but I change setups so often, F5/F10, and binning, and
                                                      > the
                                                      > > > > temp. changes so much here, that I would have to take an
                                                      awfull
                                                      > > LOT
                                                      > > > > of darks. For instance, I had a lot of darks good for -20
                                                      and
                                                      > > > colder
                                                      > > > > but now I can't get down below -15..Welcome to Wi. :>)
                                                      > > > >
                                                      > > > > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Randy Nulman"
                                                      > > > <rj.nulman@v...>
                                                      > > > > wrote:
                                                      > > > > > Good Point,
                                                      > > > > > But many of us are finding that taking dark "libraries" are
                                                      > > quite
                                                      > > > > > sufficient. What you could do is take 10 darks per night
                                                      for
                                                      > > > each
                                                      > > > > > exposure/temp/binning for a total of 3 nights (30 darks
                                                      > each).
                                                      > > > > It's
                                                      > > > > > best to take each "sampling" over different nights to
                                                      produce
                                                      > > the
                                                      > > > > > best results. (Helps deal with the roving pixel issues)
                                                      > > > > >
                                                      > > > > > Then, you should find that the "library" will be good for a
                                                      > > > > > reasonable period. When you see that "funky" things are
                                                      > > starting
                                                      > > > > to
                                                      > > > > > happen, just delete the 10 oldest and replace with
                                                      > > 10 "new"...you
                                                      > > > > > should only have to do this occassionally since the library
                                                      > > holds
                                                      > > > > up
                                                      > > > > > pretty well.
                                                      > > > > >
                                                      > > > > > Once done, this will eliminate the need for new darks taken
                                                      > on
                                                      > > a
                                                      > > > > > nightly basis...just modify as needed....works pretty well.
                                                      > > > > >
                                                      > > > > > Regards,
                                                      > > > > > Randy Nulman
                                                      > > > > >
                                                      > > > > >
                                                      > > > > >
                                                      > > > > >
                                                      > > > > > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "clearviewh"
                                                      > > > <clearview@c...>
                                                      > > > > > wrote:
                                                      > > > > > > I also found a way out...sort of....from the hassles of
                                                      > > darks.
                                                      > > > > When
                                                      > > > > > I
                                                      > > > > > > am done imaging, I close the dome, turn everything off
                                                      > except
                                                      > > > the
                                                      > > > > > > camera and computer and take my darks while I go to bed.
                                                      I
                                                      > > have
                                                      > > > > > > learned, from Ron, that the more darks the better and
                                                      > needing
                                                      > > > > every
                                                      > > > > > > advantage I can get, I set it up to take darks till dawn,
                                                      > > > > sometimes
                                                      > > > > > > 20 or more, then get up early and turn everything else
                                                      off.
                                                      > > The
                                                      > > > > > > question of different time darks is still a stickler
                                                      since
                                                      > I
                                                      > > > > don't
                                                      > > > > > > script, but I HAVE been thinking I might be able to use
                                                      > > > CCDsoft's
                                                      > > > > > > color routine to take different time darks. Oh sure, the
                                                      > > > filters
                                                      > > > > > > would change as if I were taking color shots, but the
                                                      > camera
                                                      > > > > > wouldn't
                                                      > > > > > > know <G>
                                                      > > > > > > Ed
                                                      > > > > > >
                                                      > > > > > > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Randy Nulman"
                                                      > > > > > <rj.nulman@v...>
                                                      > > > > > > wrote:
                                                      > > > > > > > Ed,
                                                      > > > > > > > I agree with you (I think Ron does as well).
                                                      > > > > > > > There's a relationship between signal and readout/sky
                                                      > noise
                                                      > > > (as
                                                      > > > > > > > defined by Stan Moore) that indicates longer exposures
                                                      in
                                                      > > the
                                                      > > > > > blue
                                                      > > > > > > > result in better s/n overall. I think that it works
                                                      for
                                                      > > Adam
                                                      > > > > due
                                                      > > > > > > to
                                                      > > > > > > > his low level of light pollution...but the rest of us
                                                      > need
                                                      > > to
                                                      > > > > > > expose
                                                      > > > > > > > longer and deal with the "hassles" of additional darks.
                                                      > > > > > > >
                                                      > > > > > > > Incidentally, your recent images are quite nice and
                                                      seem
                                                      > to
                                                      > > > > > verify
                                                      > > > > > > > this point.
                                                      > > > > > > >
                                                      > > > > > > > Regards,
                                                      > > > > > > > Randy Nulman
                                                      > > > > > > >
                                                      > > > > > > > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "clearviewh"
                                                      > > > > > <clearview@c...>
                                                      > > > > > > > wrote:
                                                      > > > > > > > > Yes, you CAN do that. Others, in particular, Adam
                                                      Block
                                                      > > at
                                                      > > > > Kitt
                                                      > > > > > > > Peak
                                                      > > > > > > > > always did that. I have always been chicken to try.
                                                      The
                                                      > > > green
                                                      > > > > > and
                                                      > > > > > > > > blue filters are darker than the red and I like to
                                                      take
                                                      > a
                                                      > > > > > longer
                                                      > > > > > > > > exposure to get a good signal. Although it is true
                                                      that
                                                      > > > > > combining
                                                      > > > > > > > > images, say 9 X 10 min gives almost an equal S/N as
                                                      say
                                                      > > 15
                                                      > > > X
                                                      > > > > 6
                                                      > > > > > > min,
                                                      > > > > > > > I
                                                      > > > > > > > > think the latter does a better job. It WOULD make the
                                                      > job
                                                      > > > of
                                                      > > > > > > darks
                                                      > > > > > > > > easier, but........... :<)
                                                      > > > > > > > > Ed
                                                      > > > > > > > >
                                                      > > > > > > > > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Reilly"
                                                      > > > > > > <sreilly@d...>
                                                      > > > > > > > > wrote:
                                                      > > > > > > > > > Hey Ed,
                                                      > > > > > > > > >
                                                      > > > > > > > > > Instead of having to take different exposure times
                                                      > why
                                                      > > > not
                                                      > > > > > keep
                                                      > > > > > > > > them the
                                                      > > > > > > > > > same, thus reducing the number of darks required,
                                                      and
                                                      > > > > adjust
                                                      > > > > > > the
                                                      > > > > > > > > color
                                                      > > > > > > > > > ratios?
                                                      > > > > > > > > >
                                                      > > > > > > > > > Steve
                                                      > > > > > > > > >
                                                      > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
                                                      > > > > > > > > > From: Phillida Hutcheson [mailto:pch01@a...]
                                                      > > > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 9:19 PM
                                                      > > > > > > > > > To: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com
                                                      > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [ccd-newastro] Re: Another M101 to
                                                      > comment
                                                      > > on
                                                      > > > > > > > > >
                                                      > > > > > > > > >
                                                      > > > > > > > > > Ed,
                                                      > > > > > > > > >
                                                      > > > > > > > > > Thanks! Next time I do M101 I'll try L:R:G:B of
                                                      > 5:2:3:3
                                                      > > > > > minutes
                                                      > > > > > > > and
                                                      > > > > > > > > see
                                                      > > > > > > > > > what happens
                                                      > > > > > > > > >
                                                      > > > > > > > > > Phillida
                                                      > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                      > > > > > > > > > From: clearviewh
                                                      > > > > > > > > > To: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com
                                                      > > > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 8:46 PM
                                                      > > > > > > > > > Subject: [ccd-newastro] Re: Another M101 to
                                                      comment
                                                      > on
                                                      > > > > > > > > >
                                                      > > > > > > > > >
                                                      > > > > > > > > > Ahh, you used Ron's stuff :>) no wonder the
                                                      > > tracking
                                                      > > > > was
                                                      > > > > > so
                                                      > > > > > > > > good.
                                                      > > > > > > > > > Ok then, in order to get better images you need
                                                      > MORE
                                                      > > > > > exposure
                                                      > > > > > > > > time.
                                                      > > > > > > > > > Generally, I think for that setup, the 14 in that
                                                      > is,
                                                      > > 5
                                                      > > > > min
                                                      > > > > > > > > exposers
                                                      > > > > > > > > > are about right. Also, you need to take longer
                                                      > green
                                                      > > > and
                                                      > > > > > blue
                                                      > > > > > > > > than
                                                      > > > > > > > > > red shoot for a ratio of R:G:B 1:1.5:1.5 So,
                                                      the
                                                      > > > next
                                                      > > > > > time
                                                      > > > > > > > you
                                                      > > > > > > > > try
                                                      > > > > > > > > > it, shoot for say......3x5 min for the red, and
                                                      > 3x7.5
                                                      > > > min
                                                      > > > > > for
                                                      > > > > > > > the
                                                      > > > > > > > > > green and blue, and take as many Luminance
                                                      > exposures
                                                      > > as
                                                      > > > > you
                                                      > > > > > > > have
                                                      > > > > > > > > time
                                                      > > > > > > > > > for. As an example, with my LX200 12 in and
                                                      ST8XE,
                                                      > I
                                                      > > > > > > generally
                                                      > > > > > > > > take
                                                      > > > > > > > > > the following ratios made up of 10 and 15 min
                                                      > > exposures
                                                      > > > > > > > > > L:R:G:B 120:60:90:90 min Hope this helps
                                                      > > > > > > > > > Ed
                                                      > > > > > > > > > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Phillida
                                                      > > > Hutcheson"
                                                      > > > > > > > > > <pch01@a...> wrote:
                                                      > > > > > > > > > > Ed,
                                                      > > > > > > > > > >
                                                      > > > > > > > > > > Sorry about leaving out the information about
                                                      the
                                                      > > > > > equipment
                                                      > > > > > > > and
                                                      > > > > > > > > > exposure details. Here it is I will also add it
                                                      to
                                                      > > the
                                                      > > > > web
                                                      > > > > > > site
                                                      > > > > > > > > with
                                                      > > > > > > > > > the image also.
                                                      > > > > > > > > > >
                                                      > > > > > > > > > > Equipment: I operated the telescope remotely
                                                      via
                                                      > > the
                                                      > > > > > > Internet
                                                      > > > > > > > > using
                                                      > > > > > > > > > remote software from Software Bisque, the
                                                      equipment
                                                      > > > > housed
                                                      > > > > > at
                                                      > > > > > > > New
                                                      > > > > > > > > > Mexico Skies at an elevation of 7,300 feet.. The
                                                      > > > > telescope
                                                      > > > > > is
                                                      > > > > > > a
                                                      > > > > > > > > > Celestron C14 and Takahashai 90 mounted on a
                                                      > > Paramount
                                                      > > > ME
                                                      > > > > > > with
                                                      > > > > > > > a
                                                      > > > > > > > > SBIG
                                                      > > > > > > > > > ST-1001E/1001XE CCD camera. Exposure: Unguided, -
                                                      > > 9.79
                                                      > > > C,
                                                      > > > > > and
                                                      > > > > > > > 45
                                                      > > > > > > > > > seconds each in the luminance, red, green, and
                                                      blue
                                                      > > > > frames.
                                                      > > > > > > > > > Processing was done with CCDSoft version 5.
                                                      > > > > > > > > > >
                                                      > > > > > > > > > > Phillida
                                                      > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                      > > > > > > > > > > From: clearviewh
                                                      > > > > > > > > > > To: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com
                                                      > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 3:22 PM
                                                      > > > > > > > > > > Subject: [ccd-newastro] Re: Another M101 to
                                                      > > comment
                                                      > > > on
                                                      > > > > > > > > > >
                                                      > > > > > > > > > >
                                                      > > > > > > > > > > -No one is ever going to laugh at images here
                                                      > > > > Phillida,
                                                      > > > > > > but
                                                      > > > > > > > > we
                                                      > > > > > > > > > WILL
                                                      > > > > > > > > > > need more info to help you like the telescope
                                                      > you
                                                      > > > are
                                                      > > > > > > > using,
                                                      > > > > > > > > the
                                                      > > > > > > > > > > camera, and the length of exposure info
                                                      > > > > > > > > > > Ed
                                                      > > > > > > > > > >
                                                      > > > > > > > > > > -- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Phillida
                                                      > > > > > Hutcheson"
                                                      > > > > > > > > > <pch01@a...>
                                                      > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
                                                      > > > > > > > > > > > Please look at the image at
                                                      > > > > > > > > > >
                                                      > > > > http://www.astropch.com/astronomyweb/recent_image_1.htm
                                                      > > > > > I
                                                      > > > > > > > am
                                                      > > > > > > > > new
                                                      > > > > > > > > > at
                                                      > > > > > > > > > > this and would like some feedback.
                                                      > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                      > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks ... Phillida
                                                      > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                      > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have
                                                      been
                                                      > > > > removed]
                                                      > > > > > > > > > >
                                                      > > > > > > > > > >
                                                      > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                                      > > > > > > > > > >
                                                      > > > > > > > > > >
                                                      > > > > > > > > > >
                                                      > > > > > > > > > >
                                                      > > > > > > > > > >
                                                      > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
                                                      > to:
                                                      > > > > > > > > > > ccd-newastro-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                                                      > > > > > > > > > >
                                                      > > > > > > > > > >
                                                      > > > > > > > > > >
                                                      > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
                                                      > > Yahoo!
                                                      > > > > > Terms
                                                      > > > > > > of
                                                      > > > > > > > > > Service.
                                                      > > > > > > > > > >
                                                      > > > > > > > > > >
                                                      > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                                      > > removed]
                                                      > > > > > > > > >
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                                                      > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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                                                      Yahoo!
                                                      > > > Terms
                                                      > > > > of
                                                      > > > > > > > > Service.
                                                      > > > > > > > > >
                                                      > > > > > > > > >
                                                      > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                                      removed]
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                                                    • Randy Nulman
                                                      Ed, Probably time to end this thread, but I just want to go on record that I remember your beginnings and now look at your recent images...they are very well
                                                      Message 26 of 26 , May 31, 2003
                                                      • 0 Attachment
                                                        Ed,
                                                        Probably time to end this thread, but I just want to go on record
                                                        that I remember your "beginnings" and now look at your recent
                                                        images...they are very well done...you went thru the learning curves,
                                                        and you should be proud of the results you are posting! I follow all
                                                        the image posts as well, and you are getting right up there with
                                                        the "best".....Just my 2 cents!

                                                        Randy Nulman

                                                        --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "clearviewh" <clearview@c...>
                                                        wrote:
                                                        > Thanks Randy. I know my images are "not bad" for an LX200, but I
                                                        > really can't compete with all the money out there that people seem
                                                        to
                                                        > have for RCs and Paramounts.....:<( I see an extrordinary image
                                                        from
                                                        > this guy or that and then I see he has a 16 in RC. on a Paramount
                                                        and
                                                        > lives out west....oh my.... LOL
                                                        >
                                                        > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Randy Nulman"
                                                        <rj.nulman@v...>
                                                        > wrote:
                                                        > > Regarding your last 2 messages, I see your point. I've tried to
                                                        > get
                                                        > > my wife to "participate" but rarely happens! I understand your
                                                        > > desire to "cool" as much as possible to eliminate noise...I just
                                                        > > thought there might be a time/benefit to this as opposed to
                                                        finding
                                                        > > a "reasonable compromise" regarding temps. Also, I understand
                                                        your
                                                        > > requirements regarding binning/not binning depending on the FL/F
                                                        > > ratio. Bottom line is that one can't argue with success...
                                                        you're
                                                        > > producing some top notch images...and maybe compromising some of
                                                        > > these issues would detract from your results? (Guess there's a
                                                        lot
                                                        > to
                                                        > > be learned here!)
                                                        > >
                                                        > > Randy Nulman
                                                        > >
                                                        > > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "clearviewh"
                                                        <clearview@c...>
                                                        > > wrote:
                                                        > > > Yes of course you are right LOL LOL It's just when I switch
                                                        > > > between F5 and F10, my binning changes "s"
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Randy Nulman"
                                                        > > <rj.nulman@v...>
                                                        > > > wrote:
                                                        > > > > Also, you mentioned the difference between F5 and F10...this
                                                        > > > > shouldn't affect you dark library...just your flats...do you
                                                        > > agree?
                                                        > > > >
                                                        > > > > Randy Nulman
                                                        > > > >
                                                        > > > > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "clearviewh"
                                                        > > <clearview@c...>
                                                        > > > > wrote:
                                                        > > > > > Yes, I HAVE considered that, and kind of do it anyway cause
                                                        I
                                                        > > > save
                                                        > > > > > all the darks, although I have to search in the old files
                                                        to
                                                        > > find
                                                        > > > > > them, but I change setups so often, F5/F10, and binning,
                                                        and
                                                        > > the
                                                        > > > > > temp. changes so much here, that I would have to take an
                                                        > awfull
                                                        > > > LOT
                                                        > > > > > of darks. For instance, I had a lot of darks good for -20
                                                        > and
                                                        > > > > colder
                                                        > > > > > but now I can't get down below -15..Welcome to Wi. :>)
                                                        > > > > >
                                                        > > > > > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Randy Nulman"
                                                        > > > > <rj.nulman@v...>
                                                        > > > > > wrote:
                                                        > > > > > > Good Point,
                                                        > > > > > > But many of us are finding that taking dark "libraries"
                                                        are
                                                        > > > quite
                                                        > > > > > > sufficient. What you could do is take 10 darks per night
                                                        > for
                                                        > > > > each
                                                        > > > > > > exposure/temp/binning for a total of 3 nights (30 darks
                                                        > > each).
                                                        > > > > > It's
                                                        > > > > > > best to take each "sampling" over different nights to
                                                        > produce
                                                        > > > the
                                                        > > > > > > best results. (Helps deal with the roving pixel issues)
                                                        > > > > > >
                                                        > > > > > > Then, you should find that the "library" will be good for
                                                        a
                                                        > > > > > > reasonable period. When you see that "funky" things are
                                                        > > > starting
                                                        > > > > > to
                                                        > > > > > > happen, just delete the 10 oldest and replace with
                                                        > > > 10 "new"...you
                                                        > > > > > > should only have to do this occassionally since the
                                                        library
                                                        > > > holds
                                                        > > > > > up
                                                        > > > > > > pretty well.
                                                        > > > > > >
                                                        > > > > > > Once done, this will eliminate the need for new darks
                                                        taken
                                                        > > on
                                                        > > > a
                                                        > > > > > > nightly basis...just modify as needed....works pretty
                                                        well.
                                                        > > > > > >
                                                        > > > > > > Regards,
                                                        > > > > > > Randy Nulman
                                                        > > > > > >
                                                        > > > > > >
                                                        > > > > > >
                                                        > > > > > >
                                                        > > > > > > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "clearviewh"
                                                        > > > > <clearview@c...>
                                                        > > > > > > wrote:
                                                        > > > > > > > I also found a way out...sort of....from the hassles of
                                                        > > > darks.
                                                        > > > > > When
                                                        > > > > > > I
                                                        > > > > > > > am done imaging, I close the dome, turn everything off
                                                        > > except
                                                        > > > > the
                                                        > > > > > > > camera and computer and take my darks while I go to
                                                        bed.
                                                        > I
                                                        > > > have
                                                        > > > > > > > learned, from Ron, that the more darks the better and
                                                        > > needing
                                                        > > > > > every
                                                        > > > > > > > advantage I can get, I set it up to take darks till
                                                        dawn,
                                                        > > > > > sometimes
                                                        > > > > > > > 20 or more, then get up early and turn everything else
                                                        > off.
                                                        > > > The
                                                        > > > > > > > question of different time darks is still a stickler
                                                        > since
                                                        > > I
                                                        > > > > > don't
                                                        > > > > > > > script, but I HAVE been thinking I might be able to use
                                                        > > > > CCDsoft's
                                                        > > > > > > > color routine to take different time darks. Oh sure,
                                                        the
                                                        > > > > filters
                                                        > > > > > > > would change as if I were taking color shots, but the
                                                        > > camera
                                                        > > > > > > wouldn't
                                                        > > > > > > > know <G>
                                                        > > > > > > > Ed
                                                        > > > > > > >
                                                        > > > > > > > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Randy Nulman"
                                                        > > > > > > <rj.nulman@v...>
                                                        > > > > > > > wrote:
                                                        > > > > > > > > Ed,
                                                        > > > > > > > > I agree with you (I think Ron does as well).
                                                        > > > > > > > > There's a relationship between signal and readout/sky
                                                        > > noise
                                                        > > > > (as
                                                        > > > > > > > > defined by Stan Moore) that indicates longer
                                                        exposures
                                                        > in
                                                        > > > the
                                                        > > > > > > blue
                                                        > > > > > > > > result in better s/n overall. I think that it works
                                                        > for
                                                        > > > Adam
                                                        > > > > > due
                                                        > > > > > > > to
                                                        > > > > > > > > his low level of light pollution...but the rest of us
                                                        > > need
                                                        > > > to
                                                        > > > > > > > expose
                                                        > > > > > > > > longer and deal with the "hassles" of additional
                                                        darks.
                                                        > > > > > > > >
                                                        > > > > > > > > Incidentally, your recent images are quite nice and
                                                        > seem
                                                        > > to
                                                        > > > > > > verify
                                                        > > > > > > > > this point.
                                                        > > > > > > > >
                                                        > > > > > > > > Regards,
                                                        > > > > > > > > Randy Nulman
                                                        > > > > > > > >
                                                        > > > > > > > > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "clearviewh"
                                                        > > > > > > <clearview@c...>
                                                        > > > > > > > > wrote:
                                                        > > > > > > > > > Yes, you CAN do that. Others, in particular, Adam
                                                        > Block
                                                        > > > at
                                                        > > > > > Kitt
                                                        > > > > > > > > Peak
                                                        > > > > > > > > > always did that. I have always been chicken to try.
                                                        > The
                                                        > > > > green
                                                        > > > > > > and
                                                        > > > > > > > > > blue filters are darker than the red and I like to
                                                        > take
                                                        > > a
                                                        > > > > > > longer
                                                        > > > > > > > > > exposure to get a good signal. Although it is true
                                                        > that
                                                        > > > > > > combining
                                                        > > > > > > > > > images, say 9 X 10 min gives almost an equal S/N as
                                                        > say
                                                        > > > 15
                                                        > > > > X
                                                        > > > > > 6
                                                        > > > > > > > min,
                                                        > > > > > > > > I
                                                        > > > > > > > > > think the latter does a better job. It WOULD make
                                                        the
                                                        > > job
                                                        > > > > of
                                                        > > > > > > > darks
                                                        > > > > > > > > > easier, but........... :<)
                                                        > > > > > > > > > Ed
                                                        > > > > > > > > >
                                                        > > > > > > > > > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Reilly"
                                                        > > > > > > > <sreilly@d...>
                                                        > > > > > > > > > wrote:
                                                        > > > > > > > > > > Hey Ed,
                                                        > > > > > > > > > >
                                                        > > > > > > > > > > Instead of having to take different exposure
                                                        times
                                                        > > why
                                                        > > > > not
                                                        > > > > > > keep
                                                        > > > > > > > > > them the
                                                        > > > > > > > > > > same, thus reducing the number of darks required,
                                                        > and
                                                        > > > > > adjust
                                                        > > > > > > > the
                                                        > > > > > > > > > color
                                                        > > > > > > > > > > ratios?
                                                        > > > > > > > > > >
                                                        > > > > > > > > > > Steve
                                                        > > > > > > > > > >
                                                        > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
                                                        > > > > > > > > > > From: Phillida Hutcheson [mailto:pch01@a...]
                                                        > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 9:19 PM
                                                        > > > > > > > > > > To: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com
                                                        > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [ccd-newastro] Re: Another M101 to
                                                        > > comment
                                                        > > > on
                                                        > > > > > > > > > >
                                                        > > > > > > > > > >
                                                        > > > > > > > > > > Ed,
                                                        > > > > > > > > > >
                                                        > > > > > > > > > > Thanks! Next time I do M101 I'll try L:R:G:B of
                                                        > > 5:2:3:3
                                                        > > > > > > minutes
                                                        > > > > > > > > and
                                                        > > > > > > > > > see
                                                        > > > > > > > > > > what happens
                                                        > > > > > > > > > >
                                                        > > > > > > > > > > Phillida
                                                        > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                        > > > > > > > > > > From: clearviewh
                                                        > > > > > > > > > > To: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com
                                                        > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 8:46 PM
                                                        > > > > > > > > > > Subject: [ccd-newastro] Re: Another M101 to
                                                        > comment
                                                        > > on
                                                        > > > > > > > > > >
                                                        > > > > > > > > > >
                                                        > > > > > > > > > > Ahh, you used Ron's stuff :>) no wonder the
                                                        > > > tracking
                                                        > > > > > was
                                                        > > > > > > so
                                                        > > > > > > > > > good.
                                                        > > > > > > > > > > Ok then, in order to get better images you need
                                                        > > MORE
                                                        > > > > > > exposure
                                                        > > > > > > > > > time.
                                                        > > > > > > > > > > Generally, I think for that setup, the 14 in
                                                        that
                                                        > > is,
                                                        > > > 5
                                                        > > > > > min
                                                        > > > > > > > > > exposers
                                                        > > > > > > > > > > are about right. Also, you need to take longer
                                                        > > green
                                                        > > > > and
                                                        > > > > > > blue
                                                        > > > > > > > > > than
                                                        > > > > > > > > > > red shoot for a ratio of R:G:B 1:1.5:1.5 So,
                                                        > the
                                                        > > > > next
                                                        > > > > > > time
                                                        > > > > > > > > you
                                                        > > > > > > > > > try
                                                        > > > > > > > > > > it, shoot for say......3x5 min for the red, and
                                                        > > 3x7.5
                                                        > > > > min
                                                        > > > > > > for
                                                        > > > > > > > > the
                                                        > > > > > > > > > > green and blue, and take as many Luminance
                                                        > > exposures
                                                        > > > as
                                                        > > > > > you
                                                        > > > > > > > > have
                                                        > > > > > > > > > time
                                                        > > > > > > > > > > for. As an example, with my LX200 12 in and
                                                        > ST8XE,
                                                        > > I
                                                        > > > > > > > generally
                                                        > > > > > > > > > take
                                                        > > > > > > > > > > the following ratios made up of 10 and 15 min
                                                        > > > exposures
                                                        > > > > > > > > > > L:R:G:B 120:60:90:90 min Hope this helps
                                                        > > > > > > > > > > Ed
                                                        > > > > > > > > > > --- In ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Phillida
                                                        > > > > Hutcheson"
                                                        > > > > > > > > > > <pch01@a...> wrote:
                                                        > > > > > > > > > > > Ed,
                                                        > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                        > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry about leaving out the information about
                                                        > the
                                                        > > > > > > equipment
                                                        > > > > > > > > and
                                                        > > > > > > > > > > exposure details. Here it is I will also add it
                                                        > to
                                                        > > > the
                                                        > > > > > web
                                                        > > > > > > > site
                                                        > > > > > > > > > with
                                                        > > > > > > > > > > the image also.
                                                        > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                        > > > > > > > > > > > Equipment: I operated the telescope remotely
                                                        > via
                                                        > > > the
                                                        > > > > > > > Internet
                                                        > > > > > > > > > using
                                                        > > > > > > > > > > remote software from Software Bisque, the
                                                        > equipment
                                                        > > > > > housed
                                                        > > > > > > at
                                                        > > > > > > > > New
                                                        > > > > > > > > > > Mexico Skies at an elevation of 7,300 feet..
                                                        The
                                                        > > > > > telescope
                                                        > > > > > > is
                                                        > > > > > > > a
                                                        > > > > > > > > > > Celestron C14 and Takahashai 90 mounted on a
                                                        > > > Paramount
                                                        > > > > ME
                                                        > > > > > > > with
                                                        > > > > > > > > a
                                                        > > > > > > > > > SBIG
                                                        > > > > > > > > > > ST-1001E/1001XE CCD camera. Exposure:
                                                        Unguided, -
                                                        > > > 9.79
                                                        > > > > C,
                                                        > > > > > > and
                                                        > > > > > > > > 45
                                                        > > > > > > > > > > seconds each in the luminance, red, green, and
                                                        > blue
                                                        > > > > > frames.
                                                        > > > > > > > > > > Processing was done with CCDSoft version 5.
                                                        > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                        > > > > > > > > > > > Phillida
                                                        > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                        > > > > > > > > > > > From: clearviewh
                                                        > > > > > > > > > > > To: ccd-newastro@yahoogroups.com
                                                        > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 3:22 PM
                                                        > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: [ccd-newastro] Re: Another M101 to
                                                        > > > comment
                                                        > > > > on
                                                        > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                        > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                        > > > > > > > > > > > -No one is ever going to laugh at images
                                                        here
                                                        > > > > > Phillida,
                                                        > > > > > > > but
                                                        > > > > > > > > > we
                                                        > > > > > > > > > > WILL
                                                        > > > > > > > > > > > need more info to help you like the
                                                        telescope
                                                        > > you
                                                        > > > > are
                                                        > > > > > > > > using,
                                                        > > > > > > > > > the
                                                        > > > > > > > > > > > camera, and the length of exposure info
                                                        > > > > > > > > > > > Ed
                                                        > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                        > > > > > > > > > > > -- In ccd-
                                                        newastro@yahoogroups.com, "Phillida
                                                        > > > > > > Hutcheson"
                                                        > > > > > > > > > > <pch01@a...>
                                                        > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
                                                        > > > > > > > > > > > > Please look at the image at
                                                        > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                        > > > > > http://www.astropch.com/astronomyweb/recent_image_1.htm
                                                        > > > > > > I
                                                        > > > > > > > > am
                                                        > > > > > > > > > new
                                                        > > > > > > > > > > at
                                                        > > > > > > > > > > > this and would like some feedback.
                                                        > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                        > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks ... Phillida
                                                        > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                        > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have
                                                        > been
                                                        > > > > > removed]
                                                        > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                        > > > > > > > > > > >
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