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RE: [cc2-dev-l] Re: FCW to SVG Progress

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  • Simon Rogers
    We would prefer links to art. Does the SVG file format support relative paths? Our file names can start with a #, representing the path to CC3, or a $
    Message 1 of 27 , Mar 13 5:22 AM
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      We would prefer links to art. Does the SVG file format support relative
      paths? Our file names can start with a #, representing the path to CC3, or a
      $ representing the folder in which the current map resides.
      --
      Simon

      -----Original Message-----
      From: cc2-dev-l@yahoogroups.com [mailto:cc2-dev-l@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
      Of BC Holmes
      Sent: 13 March 2012 01:08
      To: cc2-dev-l@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [cc2-dev-l] Re: FCW to SVG Progress

      On 12-03-12 8:57 PM, L. Lee Saunders wrote:
      >
      >> It feels to me like exporting to SVG is going to have certain
      >> limitations -- I mean, for example, I've only tackled vector
      >> capabilities, and I can foresee of a whole batch of complications if
      >> I start thinking about raster images (which seems to be the more
      >> popular side of CC3 these days)

      > Going one way, you can actually embed the bitmap bytes in the SVG
      > file. Going the other way, you will need to reference an external
      > file.

      Oh, sure. It's not a technical limitation. But I seem to recall CC3 going
      to lengths to protect their PNG images and keep them from being
      redistributed. If the Export as SVG function makes it easy to plonk an
      image into an SVG file, then the images aren't terribly well-protected.

      *shrug*

      BCing you
      --
      B.C. Holmes \u2625 http://www.bcholmes.org/
      "All my life I've wanted to be somebody; I guess I should've been more
      specific." -- Lily Tomlin


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    • bi11_h0ward
      I can see that included images of any type would be an issue, particularly if these are copyright as it is all too easy to extract data from websites. The
      Message 2 of 27 , Mar 13 10:34 AM
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        I can see that included images of any type would be an issue, particularly if these are copyright as it is all too easy to 'extract' data from websites. The major problem being to sort out which images are (copyright) acceptable and which not.

        However the program itself would still be of major value to people like me who make extensive use of the vector facilities of CC3. Also (for me at least) Java isn't really an issue, as I can run it on any machine.

        I currently a problem with some my more detailed maps (for the web) where I need very high resolutions, as I get can aborts from CC3 (perhaps the 32bit limit?) and have to keep adjusting the resolution until it works. The program would (potentially) be a great solution.
      • BC Holmes
        ... Hey Bill, Thanks for your comments. They ve helped crystalize some thoughts in my own head. When I started this exercise, I feared that there might be
        Message 3 of 27 , Mar 14 6:53 PM
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          On 12-03-13 1:34 PM, bi11_h0ward wrote:
          >
          > However the program itself would still be of major value to people
          > like me who make extensive use of the vector facilities of CC3. Also
          > (for me at least) Java isn't really an issue, as I can run it on any
          > machine.


          Hey Bill,

          Thanks for your comments. They've helped crystalize some thoughts in my
          own head.

          When I started this exercise, I feared that there might be some push
          back on the overall conversion. One way of looking at what I'm doing is
          to see it as something that enables people to take their maps out of CC3
          -- one might legitimately ask the question, "will people stop using CC3
          if Inkscape or whatever is more easily available?" I think the answer
          to that is "no," because CC3 is specialized for a role that is very
          different than general-purpose vector art tools.

          But I don't think I had really asked myself, "why does it help people to
          be able to have SVG exports of maps?" For me, the answer was just
          simply, "SVG is cool!" I think that you raise a good answer to that
          question -- that it's nice to be able to post maps to web sites. You
          can make the case that PNG already gives you that ability, but SVG is
          scriptable! Imagine interactive maps on the Internet. That work on Mac
          and Linux! That's kind of exciting.

          Increasingly, I'm thinking about this in terms of "workflow". Like, say
          I want to create a maps in CC3, and then after it's all designed, I want
          to touch it up with some graphic effects -- maybe I want to "age" the
          map so that it looks like parchment, or rough it up in ways that tools
          like Illustrator are good at. I think that SVG can be a good, enabling
          way to take diagrams from one tool into another tool. I'm sure people
          do that with PNGs, today, but vector gives you more options.


          > I currently a problem with some my more detailed maps (for the web)
          > where I need very high resolutions, as I get can aborts from CC3
          > (perhaps the 32bit limit?) and have to keep adjusting the resolution
          > until it works. The program would (potentially) be a great
          > solution.


          So, uh, I'm ambivalent about suggesting this, but if you're interested,
          I'd be happy to make a copy of the code available to you (or anyone who
          wants it). I'm ambivalent because I'm sure that you'll be disappointed
          by all the things that I don't yet have good support for. But if you
          want to give it a whirl I could do that (I've already been emailed by
          one person who was interested, and I put a downloadable zip file on my
          server).


          BCing you
          --
          B.C. Holmes \u2625 http://www.bcholmes.org/
          "All my life I've wanted to be somebody; I guess I should've been
          more specific." -- Lily Tomlin
        • Simon Rogers
          Message 4 of 27 , Mar 15 1:45 AM
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            <<
            When I started this exercise, I feared that there might be some push back on
            the overall conversion. One way of looking at what I'm doing is to see it
            as something that enables people to take their maps out of CC3
            -- one might legitimately ask the question, "will people stop using CC3 if
            Inkscape or whatever is more easily available?" I think the answer to that
            is "no," because CC3 is specialized for a role that is very different than
            general-purpose vector art tools.
            >>

            I agree - many people do after effects in Photoshop, too.

            From the other perspective, an import filter would be very useful to CC3
            users - there is a lot of material out there in SVG format.

            Simon
          • bi11_h0ward
            I agree that refining maps in Photoshop/Paintshop would be an excellent use to give `Work of Art maps that final touch. Another use that I was thinking of
            Message 5 of 27 , Mar 15 3:36 AM
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              I agree that refining maps in Photoshop/Paintshop would be an excellent use to give `Work of Art' maps that final touch. Another use that I was thinking of was displaying maps on the internet with overlays. These might be grid systems, hotspot, dragable character-icons and 'Fog of War' obscurement etc. (The later is not quite as useful unless backend processed as the Internet is just too easy to 'hack' , how much do you trust your players?)

              Looking forward to seeing the latest instalment in your development!

              Bill H
            • L. Lee Saunders
              ... I agree with Simon on this. Not only is there a lot of Stuff out there in SVG format, but there are a lot of vector stuff out there period. And, since
              Message 6 of 27 , Mar 16 7:14 AM
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                > From the other perspective, an import filter would be very useful to CC3
                > users - there is a lot of material out there in SVG format.

                > Simon

                I agree with Simon on this.  Not only is there a lot of "Stuff" out there in SVG format, but there are a lot of vector stuff out there period.  And, since SVG is a standard output format, no matter what format it is currently in, we can get it into SVG.
                 
                If you come at it with the idea that if you do not know how to convert the element, just ignore it and go to the next element, at least we can get SOMETHING into CC3 from SVG.
                 
                Lee

              • bcholmes2001
                ... Okay. I buy this. Let me see what I can wrestle up. BCing you
                Message 7 of 27 , Mar 16 7:27 AM
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                  --- In cc2-dev-l@yahoogroups.com, "L. Lee Saunders" <saunderl@...>
                  >
                  > I agree with Simon on this. Not only is there a lot of "Stuff"
                  > out there in SVG format, but there are a lot of vector stuff out
                  > there period. And, since SVG is a standard output format, no
                  > matter what format it is currently in, we can get it into SVG.
                  > If you come at it with the idea that if you do not know how to
                  > convert the element, just ignore it and go to the next element,
                  > at least we can get SOMETHING into CC3 from SVG.

                  Okay. I buy this.

                  Let me see what I can wrestle up.

                  BCing you
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