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Re: [cc2-dev-l] FCW to SVG Progress

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  • BC Holmes
    ... Oh, interesting. I took a list of colours from the original FCW- SVG C code (specifically, in the fcw.c file). That code specified that colour number 16
    Message 1 of 27 , Feb 26, 2012
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      On 12-02-26 12:32 AM, L. Lee Saunders wrote:
      >
      > Actually the color in the FCW file is #16. That is a very light grey
      > color. It si the first color on the left of the second row. > What am
      > I not understanding about background colours? Where are you seeing it
      > as black? Do a list command on the backbround and you get this info:
      > 2D Polygon: color 16 () layer 8 (BACKGROUND (MAP))


      Oh, interesting. I took a list of colours from the original FCW->SVG C
      code (specifically, in the fcw.c file). That code specified that colour
      number 16 is #100000 (the almost-black that I ended up with). Serves me
      right for just accepting that at face value.


      BCing you
      --
      B.C. Holmes \u2625 http://www.bcholmes.org/
      "All my life I've wanted to be somebody; I guess I should've been
      more specific." -- Lily Tomlin
    • Peter Olsson
      There is a function called GetPalAdr() which will give you access to the current palette with the color values. A few lines from the Effects logic where I swap
      Message 2 of 27 , Feb 27, 2012
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        There is a function called GetPalAdr() which will give you access to the current palette with the color values.

        A few lines from the Effects logic where I swap the order of the colors:

         

        DWORD *CMap = GetPalAdr();

        int c = 16;

         

        DWORD color = (CMap[c] & 0x0000ff00) | (CMap[c] & 0x00ff0000) >> 16 | (CMap[c] & 0x000000ff) << 16;

        A word of caution. Since you are mixing .NET with CC3 you should be aware that you need glue routines that save the registers. The _stdcall calling conventions depends on this. The C-style functions in FastCAD does this, but not the glue routines that I have added in the toolkit Lee linked to does not do this.

         

        Peter

         

        Från: cc2-dev-l@yahoogroups.com [mailto:cc2-dev-l@yahoogroups.com] För BC Holmes
        Skickat: den 26 februari 2012 14:47
        Till: cc2-dev-l@yahoogroups.com
        Ämne: Re: [cc2-dev-l] FCW to SVG Progress

         

         

        On 12-02-26 12:32 AM, L. Lee Saunders wrote:

        >
        > Actually the color in the FCW file is #16. That is a very light grey
        > color. It si the first color on the left of the second row. > What am
        > I not understanding about background colours? Where are you seeing it
        > as black? Do a list command on the backbround and you get this info:
        > 2D Polygon: color 16 () layer 8 (BACKGROUND (MAP))


        Oh, interesting. I took a list of colours from the original FCW->SVG C
        code (specifically, in the fcw.c file). That code specified that colour
        number 16 is #100000 (the almost-black that I ended up with). Serves me
        right for just accepting that at face value.

        BCing you
        --
        B.C. Holmes \u2625 http://www.bcholmes.org/
        "All my life I've wanted to be somebody; I guess I should've been
        more specific." -- Lily Tomlin

      • BC Holmes
        ... Thanks for the pointers! (Uh, no pun intended). BCing you -- B.C. Holmes u2625 http://www.bcholmes.org/ All my life I ve
        Message 3 of 27 , Feb 27, 2012
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          On 12-02-27 4:45 AM, Peter Olsson wrote:
          > There is a function called GetPalAdr() which will give you access to the
          > current palette with the color values.


          Thanks for the pointers! (Uh, no pun intended).

          BCing you
          --
          B.C. Holmes \u2625 http://www.bcholmes.org/
          "All my life I've wanted to be somebody; I guess I should've been
          more specific." -- Lily Tomlin
        • L. Lee Saunders
          So, to walk through and get all the colors, All I need to do is: DWORD *CMap = GetPalAdr(); For(int c = 0; c
          Message 4 of 27 , Feb 27, 2012
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            So, to walk through and get all the colors, All I need to do is:

            DWORD *CMap = GetPalAdr();

            For(int c = 0; c < 256; c++)

            {

            DWORD color = (CMap[c] & 0x0000ff00) | (CMap[c] & 0x00ff0000) >> 16 | (CMap[c] & 0x000000ff) << 16;

            //Play with color

            }

            That’s great!

             

            BC, if you write any glue routines, please post them for all to use, OK?

             

            Lee

            From: cc2-dev-l@yahoogroups.com [mailto:cc2-dev-l@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Peter Olsson
            Sent: Monday, February 27, 2012 3:45 AM
            To: cc2-dev-l@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [cc2-dev-l] FCW to SVG Progress

             

             

            There is a function called GetPalAdr() which will give you access to the current palette with the color values.

            A few lines from the Effects logic where I swap the order of the colors:

             

            DWORD *CMap = GetPalAdr();

            int c = 16;

             

            DWORD color = (CMap[c] & 0x0000ff00) | (CMap[c] & 0x00ff0000) >> 16 | (CMap[c] & 0x000000ff) << 16;

            A word of caution. Since you are mixing .NET with CC3 you should be aware that you need glue routines that save the registers. The _stdcall calling conventions depends on this. The C-style functions in FastCAD does this, but not the glue routines that I have added in the toolkit Lee linked to does not do this.

             

            Peter

             

            Från: cc2-dev-l@yahoogroups.com [mailto:cc2-dev-l@yahoogroups.com] För BC Holmes
            Skickat: den 26 februari 2012 14:47
            Till: cc2-dev-l@yahoogroups.com
            Ämne: Re: [cc2-dev-l] FCW to SVG Progress

             

             

            On 12-02-26 12:32 AM, L. Lee Saunders wrote:

            >
            > Actually the color in the FCW file is #16. That is a very light grey
            > color. It si the first color on the left of the second row. > What am
            > I not understanding about background colours? Where are you seeing it
            > as black? Do a list command on the backbround and you get this info:
            > 2D Polygon: color 16 () layer 8 (BACKGROUND (MAP))


            Oh, interesting. I took a list of colours from the original FCW->SVG C
            code (specifically, in the fcw.c file). That code specified that colour
            number 16 is #100000 (the almost-black that I ended up with). Serves me
            right for just accepting that at face value.

            BCing you
            --
            B.C. Holmes \u2625 http://www.bcholmes.org/
            "All my life I've wanted to be somebody; I guess I should've been
            more specific." -- Lily Tomlin

          • BC Holmes
            ... I m certainly willing to share any code I write, but at the moment, I m not writing anything in .Net, so I don t have any glue routines. The code I ve
            Message 5 of 27 , Feb 27, 2012
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              On 12-02-27 11:10 AM, L. Lee Saunders wrote:
              >
              > BC, if you write any glue routines, please post them for all to use, OK?


              I'm certainly willing to share any code I write, but at the moment, I'm
              not writing anything in .Net, so I don't have any glue routines. The
              code I've written so far has been in Java.

              I'll probably end up porting my code back to C eventually (my C is rusty
              though).

              BCing you
              --
              B.C. Holmes \u2625 http://www.bcholmes.org/
              "All my life I've wanted to be somebody; I guess I should've been
              more specific." -- Lily Tomlin
            • BC Holmes
              ... w00t! Today, I finally reached the ah-ha moment of b-splines and Bezier curves! Here s the town of Greenheight, again:
              Message 6 of 27 , Mar 11, 2012
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                On 12-02-24 9:57 AM, Peter Olsson wrote:
                > I'm a bit confused about if SVG uses Cubic B-splines or Bezier functions.
                >
                > There are conversions between the two though. Google turned up this paper:
                > http://i33www.ibds.uni-karlsruhe.de/papers/Buchauswahl.pdf
                > See 5.10 on PDF-page 44 (number 72 on the page)
                >
                > Since it is possible there ought to be more practical references as well.


                w00t! Today, I finally reached the ah-ha moment of b-splines and Bezier
                curves!

                Here's the town of Greenheight, again:

                http://bcholmes.org/maps/TownOf%20Greenheight.svg

                and PNG:

                http://bcholmes.org/maps/TownOf%20Greenheight.png


                I like this example because it has a number of curves in it.

                Here's the algorithm I used: the FCW path entity has a number of points
                identified. Let's call them B[0], B[1], ... B[n].

                To turn this into a Cubic Bezier, we need to imagine that we've broken
                up the B-Spline into n different curves. Our first task is to identify
                the end points of those curves. Thus, the first curve goes from S[0] to
                S[1], and the second from S[1] to S[2].

                Clearly, S[0] = B[0], and S[n] = B[n], where 'n' is the last index.

                This paper over here, gave me the following algorithm:

                http://www.math.ucla.edu/~baker/149.1.02w/handouts/dd_splines.pdf

                S[i] = 1/6 B[i-1] + 2/3 B[i] + 1/6 B[i+1]

                This is based on an idea that in order to define a particular point on
                the B-spline, you can break up the line connecting, say, B[0] to B[1]
                into thirds. Thus, you can imagine a triangle with one corner at B[1],
                and the other two corners defined by the newly-imagined "third of the
                way" to B[0] and the point "a third of the way" to B[2]. The edge of
                that triangle (opposite from B[1]) touches the B-Spline at S[1].

                Now, clearly, we define the math of points in the obvious way:

                a * Point(x, y) = Point(a * x, a * y)

                and

                Point(x1, y1) + Point(x2, y2) = Point(x1 + x2, y1 + y2).

                So now that we have the endpoints, we just need to the Bezier control
                points, and we define the curve using two end points and two control points:

                Curve[i] = S[i-1], 2/3 B[i-1] + 1/3 B[i], 1/3 B[i-1] + 2/3 B[i], S[i]

                I gotta say, I'm feeling pretty chuffed at the moment. I knew none of
                this math a few weeks ago, and now, not only do I have a working
                solution, I actually understand it!

                BCing you
                --
                B.C. Holmes \u2625 http://www.bcholmes.org/
                "All my life I've wanted to be somebody; I guess I should've been
                more specific." -- Lily Tomlin
              • Peter Olsson
                Good job! Thanks for sharing your efforts. Peter ... Från: cc2-dev-l@yahoogroups.com [mailto:cc2-dev-l@yahoogroups.com] För BC Holmes Skickat: den 12 mars
                Message 7 of 27 , Mar 12, 2012
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                  Good job!

                  Thanks for sharing your efforts.

                  Peter

                  -----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
                  Från: cc2-dev-l@yahoogroups.com [mailto:cc2-dev-l@yahoogroups.com] För BC
                  Holmes
                  Skickat: den 12 mars 2012 00:56
                  Till: cc2-dev-l@yahoogroups.com
                  Ämne: [cc2-dev-l] Splines

                  On 12-02-24 9:57 AM, Peter Olsson wrote:
                  > I'm a bit confused about if SVG uses Cubic B-splines or Bezier
                  functions.
                  >
                  > There are conversions between the two though. Google turned up this
                  paper:
                  > http://i33www.ibds.uni-karlsruhe.de/papers/Buchauswahl.pdf
                  > See 5.10 on PDF-page 44 (number 72 on the page)
                  >
                  > Since it is possible there ought to be more practical references as
                  well.


                  w00t! Today, I finally reached the ah-ha moment of b-splines and Bezier
                  curves!

                  Here's the town of Greenheight, again:

                  http://bcholmes.org/maps/TownOf%20Greenheight.svg

                  and PNG:

                  http://bcholmes.org/maps/TownOf%20Greenheight.png


                  I like this example because it has a number of curves in it.

                  Here's the algorithm I used: the FCW path entity has a number of points
                  identified. Let's call them B[0], B[1], ... B[n].

                  To turn this into a Cubic Bezier, we need to imagine that we've broken up
                  the B-Spline into n different curves. Our first task is to identify the
                  end points of those curves. Thus, the first curve goes from S[0] to S[1],
                  and the second from S[1] to S[2].


                  Clearly, S[0] = B[0], and S[n] = B[n], where 'n' is the last index.

                  This paper over here, gave me the following algorithm:

                  http://www.math.ucla.edu/~baker/149.1.02w/handouts/dd_splines.pdf

                  S[i] = 1/6 B[i-1] + 2/3 B[i] + 1/6 B[i+1]

                  This is based on an idea that in order to define a particular point on the
                  B-spline, you can break up the line connecting, say, B[0] to B[1] into
                  thirds. Thus, you can imagine a triangle with one corner at B[1], and the
                  other two corners defined by the newly-imagined "third of the way" to B[0]
                  and the point "a third of the way" to B[2]. The edge of that triangle
                  (opposite from B[1]) touches the B-Spline at S[1].

                  Now, clearly, we define the math of points in the obvious way:

                  a * Point(x, y) = Point(a * x, a * y)

                  and

                  Point(x1, y1) + Point(x2, y2) = Point(x1 + x2, y1 + y2).

                  So now that we have the endpoints, we just need to the Bezier control
                  points, and we define the curve using two end points and two control
                  points:

                  Curve[i] = S[i-1], 2/3 B[i-1] + 1/3 B[i], 1/3 B[i-1] + 2/3 B[i], S[i]

                  I gotta say, I'm feeling pretty chuffed at the moment. I knew none of
                  this math a few weeks ago, and now, not only do I have a working solution,
                  I actually understand it!

                  BCing you
                  --
                  B.C. Holmes \u2625 http://www.bcholmes.org/
                  "All my life I've wanted to be somebody; I guess I should've been more
                  specific." -- Lily Tomlin


                  ------------------------------------

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                • bi11_h0ward
                  The FCW to SVG results are already looking pretty impressive. What do you plan to do with the completed program? It would be a very, very useful way of
                  Message 8 of 27 , Mar 12, 2012
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                    The FCW to SVG results are already looking pretty impressive. What do you plan to do with the completed program?

                    It would be a very, very useful way of showing complex maps in all their glory on the web!

                    Bill H
                  • L. Lee Saunders
                    Plus I hope he is going to reverse the process. I would love to be able to roundtrip a map with Inkscape, CorelDraw or Illustrator! From:
                    Message 9 of 27 , Mar 12, 2012
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                      Plus I hope he is going to reverse the process.  I would love to be able to roundtrip a map with Inkscape, CorelDraw or Illustrator!

                       

                      From: cc2-dev-l@yahoogroups.com [mailto:cc2-dev-l@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bi11_h0ward
                      Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 10:45 AM
                      To: cc2-dev-l@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [cc2-dev-l] Re: FCW to SVG Progress

                       

                       

                      The FCW to SVG results are already looking pretty impressive. What do you plan to do with the completed program?

                      It would be a very, very useful way of showing complex maps in all their glory on the web!

                      Bill H

                    • BC Holmes
                      ... Hey Bill, Thanks for the kind words. You do ask the interesting question: what s going to become of this? The answer is that I m not sure. I ve pondered
                      Message 10 of 27 , Mar 12, 2012
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                        On 12-03-12 11:45 AM, bi11_h0ward wrote:
                        > The FCW to SVG results are already looking pretty impressive. What
                        > do you plan to do with the completed program?


                        Hey Bill,

                        Thanks for the kind words. You do ask the interesting question: what's
                        going to become of this? The answer is that I'm not sure.

                        I've pondered a couple of ideas here and there -- one thought was to
                        port my Java code back to C or C++ and then put a bit of an Objective-C
                        wrapper around it to build a viewer that I can use to view maps on my
                        Mac. It's kinda bummed me out not being able to do anything with these
                        maps on the Mac.

                        Mostly, though, I just started doing it on a lark, and I kept being
                        engaged because of interesting technical challenges here and there.

                        One option, obviously, would be to get the code in a good enough state
                        (including, probably, a conversion to C or C++) that ProFantasy can use
                        it to create an "Export as SVG" menu option. I don't know if they have
                        any interest in that, but I'm certainly willing to share my code with
                        them (after all, people on this forum have been great about sharing
                        their expertise with me!)

                        Did you (or anyone else on this mailing list) have any good ideas?


                        > It would be a very, very useful way of showing complex maps in all
                        > their glory on the web!

                        *nod* I hear ya!

                        It feels to me like exporting to SVG is going to have certain
                        limitations -- I mean, for example, I've only tackled vector
                        capabilities, and I can foresee of a whole batch of complications if I
                        start thinking about raster images (which seems to be the more popular
                        side of CC3 these days).


                        BCing you
                        --
                        B.C. Holmes \u2625 http://www.bcholmes.org/
                        "All my life I've wanted to be somebody; I guess I should've been
                        more specific." -- Lily Tomlin
                      • BC Holmes
                        ... Eeeep! Wow, that s a tall order. I mean, just thinking about importing Inkscape is mind-boggling enough. What do you do with all the SVG features that
                        Message 11 of 27 , Mar 12, 2012
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                          On 12-03-12 11:53 AM, L. Lee Saunders wrote:
                          > Plus I hope he is going to reverse the process. I would love to be able to
                          > roundtrip a map with Inkscape, CorelDraw or Illustrator!


                          Eeeep! Wow, that's a tall order.

                          I mean, just thinking about importing Inkscape is mind-boggling enough.
                          What do you do with all the SVG features that don't map nicely to the
                          FCW format? Colors, filters, gradients. It's a bit daunting.

                          But, hey, sometimes daunting is exciting.

                          BC
                          --
                          B.C. Holmes \u2625 http://www.bcholmes.org/
                          "All my life I've wanted to be somebody; I guess I should've been
                          more specific." -- Lily Tomlin
                        • L. Lee Saunders
                          ... Even a partial round trip would help a lot. Just vectors would be great. Just think of it ... some of the vector effects in these other apps ... I
                          Message 12 of 27 , Mar 12, 2012
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                            > > Plus I hope he is going to reverse the process. I would love to be able to
                            > > roundtrip a map with Inkscape, CorelDraw or Illustrator!
                            >  
                            >  Eeeep! Wow, that's a tall order.


                            Even a partial round trip would help a lot.  Just vectors would be great.  Just think of it ... some of the vector effects in these other apps ... I wouldn't even know how to start coding some of those effects into CC3.
                              
                            >  I mean, just thinking about importing Inkscape is mind-boggling enough.
                            >  What do you do with all the SVG features that don't map nicely to the
                            >  FCW format? Colors, filters, gradients. It's a bit daunting.

                            True ...

                            >  But, hey, sometimes daunting is exciting.



                            Very true ...
                          • L. Lee Saunders
                            ... Going one way, you can actually embed the bitmap bytes in the SVG file. Going the other way, you will need to reference an external file.
                            Message 13 of 27 , Mar 12, 2012
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                              >  It feels to me like exporting to SVG is going to have certain
                              >  limitations -- I mean, for example, I've only tackled vector
                              >  capabilities, and I can foresee of a whole batch of complications if I
                              >  start thinking about raster images (which seems to be the more popular
                              >  side of CC3 these days)


                              Going one way, you can actually embed the bitmap bytes in the SVG file.  Going the other way, you will need to reference an external file.
                            • BC Holmes
                              ... Oh, sure. It s not a technical limitation. But I seem to recall CC3 going to lengths to protect their PNG images and keep them from being redistributed.
                              Message 14 of 27 , Mar 12, 2012
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                                On 12-03-12 8:57 PM, L. Lee Saunders wrote:
                                >
                                >> It feels to me like exporting to SVG is going to have certain
                                >> limitations -- I mean, for example, I've only tackled vector
                                >> capabilities, and I can foresee of a whole batch of complications
                                >> if I start thinking about raster images (which seems to be the more
                                >> popular side of CC3 these days)

                                > Going one way, you can actually embed the bitmap bytes in the SVG
                                > file. Going the other way, you will need to reference an external
                                > file.

                                Oh, sure. It's not a technical limitation. But I seem to recall CC3
                                going to lengths to protect their PNG images and keep them from being
                                redistributed. If the Export as SVG function makes it easy to plonk an
                                image into an SVG file, then the images aren't terribly well-protected.

                                *shrug*

                                BCing you
                                --
                                B.C. Holmes \u2625 http://www.bcholmes.org/
                                "All my life I've wanted to be somebody; I guess I should've been
                                more specific." -- Lily Tomlin
                              • Simon Rogers
                                We would prefer links to art. Does the SVG file format support relative paths? Our file names can start with a #, representing the path to CC3, or a $
                                Message 15 of 27 , Mar 13, 2012
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                                  We would prefer links to art. Does the SVG file format support relative
                                  paths? Our file names can start with a #, representing the path to CC3, or a
                                  $ representing the folder in which the current map resides.
                                  --
                                  Simon

                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: cc2-dev-l@yahoogroups.com [mailto:cc2-dev-l@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                                  Of BC Holmes
                                  Sent: 13 March 2012 01:08
                                  To: cc2-dev-l@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: [cc2-dev-l] Re: FCW to SVG Progress

                                  On 12-03-12 8:57 PM, L. Lee Saunders wrote:
                                  >
                                  >> It feels to me like exporting to SVG is going to have certain
                                  >> limitations -- I mean, for example, I've only tackled vector
                                  >> capabilities, and I can foresee of a whole batch of complications if
                                  >> I start thinking about raster images (which seems to be the more
                                  >> popular side of CC3 these days)

                                  > Going one way, you can actually embed the bitmap bytes in the SVG
                                  > file. Going the other way, you will need to reference an external
                                  > file.

                                  Oh, sure. It's not a technical limitation. But I seem to recall CC3 going
                                  to lengths to protect their PNG images and keep them from being
                                  redistributed. If the Export as SVG function makes it easy to plonk an
                                  image into an SVG file, then the images aren't terribly well-protected.

                                  *shrug*

                                  BCing you
                                  --
                                  B.C. Holmes \u2625 http://www.bcholmes.org/
                                  "All my life I've wanted to be somebody; I guess I should've been more
                                  specific." -- Lily Tomlin


                                  ------------------------------------

                                  To Post a message, send it to: cc2-dev-l@...
                                  To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                                  cc2-dev-l-unsubscribe@...! Groups Links
                                • bi11_h0ward
                                  I can see that included images of any type would be an issue, particularly if these are copyright as it is all too easy to extract data from websites. The
                                  Message 16 of 27 , Mar 13, 2012
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                                    I can see that included images of any type would be an issue, particularly if these are copyright as it is all too easy to 'extract' data from websites. The major problem being to sort out which images are (copyright) acceptable and which not.

                                    However the program itself would still be of major value to people like me who make extensive use of the vector facilities of CC3. Also (for me at least) Java isn't really an issue, as I can run it on any machine.

                                    I currently a problem with some my more detailed maps (for the web) where I need very high resolutions, as I get can aborts from CC3 (perhaps the 32bit limit?) and have to keep adjusting the resolution until it works. The program would (potentially) be a great solution.
                                  • BC Holmes
                                    ... Hey Bill, Thanks for your comments. They ve helped crystalize some thoughts in my own head. When I started this exercise, I feared that there might be
                                    Message 17 of 27 , Mar 14, 2012
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                                      On 12-03-13 1:34 PM, bi11_h0ward wrote:
                                      >
                                      > However the program itself would still be of major value to people
                                      > like me who make extensive use of the vector facilities of CC3. Also
                                      > (for me at least) Java isn't really an issue, as I can run it on any
                                      > machine.


                                      Hey Bill,

                                      Thanks for your comments. They've helped crystalize some thoughts in my
                                      own head.

                                      When I started this exercise, I feared that there might be some push
                                      back on the overall conversion. One way of looking at what I'm doing is
                                      to see it as something that enables people to take their maps out of CC3
                                      -- one might legitimately ask the question, "will people stop using CC3
                                      if Inkscape or whatever is more easily available?" I think the answer
                                      to that is "no," because CC3 is specialized for a role that is very
                                      different than general-purpose vector art tools.

                                      But I don't think I had really asked myself, "why does it help people to
                                      be able to have SVG exports of maps?" For me, the answer was just
                                      simply, "SVG is cool!" I think that you raise a good answer to that
                                      question -- that it's nice to be able to post maps to web sites. You
                                      can make the case that PNG already gives you that ability, but SVG is
                                      scriptable! Imagine interactive maps on the Internet. That work on Mac
                                      and Linux! That's kind of exciting.

                                      Increasingly, I'm thinking about this in terms of "workflow". Like, say
                                      I want to create a maps in CC3, and then after it's all designed, I want
                                      to touch it up with some graphic effects -- maybe I want to "age" the
                                      map so that it looks like parchment, or rough it up in ways that tools
                                      like Illustrator are good at. I think that SVG can be a good, enabling
                                      way to take diagrams from one tool into another tool. I'm sure people
                                      do that with PNGs, today, but vector gives you more options.


                                      > I currently a problem with some my more detailed maps (for the web)
                                      > where I need very high resolutions, as I get can aborts from CC3
                                      > (perhaps the 32bit limit?) and have to keep adjusting the resolution
                                      > until it works. The program would (potentially) be a great
                                      > solution.


                                      So, uh, I'm ambivalent about suggesting this, but if you're interested,
                                      I'd be happy to make a copy of the code available to you (or anyone who
                                      wants it). I'm ambivalent because I'm sure that you'll be disappointed
                                      by all the things that I don't yet have good support for. But if you
                                      want to give it a whirl I could do that (I've already been emailed by
                                      one person who was interested, and I put a downloadable zip file on my
                                      server).


                                      BCing you
                                      --
                                      B.C. Holmes \u2625 http://www.bcholmes.org/
                                      "All my life I've wanted to be somebody; I guess I should've been
                                      more specific." -- Lily Tomlin
                                    • Simon Rogers
                                      Message 18 of 27 , Mar 15, 2012
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                                        <<
                                        When I started this exercise, I feared that there might be some push back on
                                        the overall conversion. One way of looking at what I'm doing is to see it
                                        as something that enables people to take their maps out of CC3
                                        -- one might legitimately ask the question, "will people stop using CC3 if
                                        Inkscape or whatever is more easily available?" I think the answer to that
                                        is "no," because CC3 is specialized for a role that is very different than
                                        general-purpose vector art tools.
                                        >>

                                        I agree - many people do after effects in Photoshop, too.

                                        From the other perspective, an import filter would be very useful to CC3
                                        users - there is a lot of material out there in SVG format.

                                        Simon
                                      • bi11_h0ward
                                        I agree that refining maps in Photoshop/Paintshop would be an excellent use to give `Work of Art maps that final touch. Another use that I was thinking of
                                        Message 19 of 27 , Mar 15, 2012
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                                          I agree that refining maps in Photoshop/Paintshop would be an excellent use to give `Work of Art' maps that final touch. Another use that I was thinking of was displaying maps on the internet with overlays. These might be grid systems, hotspot, dragable character-icons and 'Fog of War' obscurement etc. (The later is not quite as useful unless backend processed as the Internet is just too easy to 'hack' , how much do you trust your players?)

                                          Looking forward to seeing the latest instalment in your development!

                                          Bill H
                                        • L. Lee Saunders
                                          ... I agree with Simon on this. Not only is there a lot of Stuff out there in SVG format, but there are a lot of vector stuff out there period. And, since
                                          Message 20 of 27 , Mar 16, 2012
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                                            > From the other perspective, an import filter would be very useful to CC3
                                            > users - there is a lot of material out there in SVG format.

                                            > Simon

                                            I agree with Simon on this.  Not only is there a lot of "Stuff" out there in SVG format, but there are a lot of vector stuff out there period.  And, since SVG is a standard output format, no matter what format it is currently in, we can get it into SVG.
                                             
                                            If you come at it with the idea that if you do not know how to convert the element, just ignore it and go to the next element, at least we can get SOMETHING into CC3 from SVG.
                                             
                                            Lee

                                          • bcholmes2001
                                            ... Okay. I buy this. Let me see what I can wrestle up. BCing you
                                            Message 21 of 27 , Mar 16, 2012
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                                              --- In cc2-dev-l@yahoogroups.com, "L. Lee Saunders" <saunderl@...>
                                              >
                                              > I agree with Simon on this. Not only is there a lot of "Stuff"
                                              > out there in SVG format, but there are a lot of vector stuff out
                                              > there period. And, since SVG is a standard output format, no
                                              > matter what format it is currently in, we can get it into SVG.
                                              > If you come at it with the idea that if you do not know how to
                                              > convert the element, just ignore it and go to the next element,
                                              > at least we can get SOMETHING into CC3 from SVG.

                                              Okay. I buy this.

                                              Let me see what I can wrestle up.

                                              BCing you
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