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Re: Curious about colors (Need Mike Riddle)

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  • kiatar@sk.sympatico.ca
    ... for a long ... another color ... the only ... nets me ... select ... would ... what I ... smaller) on ... highlight. ... depth. ... as the ... add a ...
    Message 1 of 13 , Nov 14, 2001
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      --- In cc2-dev-l@y..., Linda Kekumu <lkekumu@s...> wrote:
      > Aloha Mike,
      >
      > I have also wanted a way to be able to select entities by Color2
      for a long
      > time :) I would estimate that 95% of the time we use Black &
      another color
      > when using Color & Color2 if they are different colors. Currently
      the only
      > way to select these entities by Color is by choosing Black but that
      nets me
      > almost all of the entities in the map. It would be great if I could
      select
      > them by Color2. It would be great to be able to select by Color2, I
      would
      > love this as a feature. This would be very handy but this isn't
      what I
      > meant.
      >
      > Often when I make a symbol I add a second poly (different shape,
      smaller) on
      > top of the original poly to simulate shading or a shadow or a
      highlight.
      > This helps make more attractive symbols, gives them some shape or
      depth.
      > Often we use 2 shading colors. Usually we use a base color like 150
      as the
      > base color & then add shading in color 149 & 148.
      >
      > Currently we have Color 31 & CBB that a user can select when they
      add a
      > symbol to the map but as I understand it there is no way to use
      both of
      > these simultaneously using different colors for Color 31 & CBB.
      This is a
      > shame because there are 2 different things but we can only use them
      > interchangeable - there is no way to pick color 150 as Color 31 &
      color 149
      > as CBB at the same time. Currently both Color 31 & CBB are the same
      color,
      > at the same time.
      >
      > Ideally I could make a symbol using Color 31 as the base & CBB for
      the
      > shading & be able to pick 2 different colors (150 for Color 31 &
      149 for
      > CBB) or even have a way to use Color 31 & have CBB automatically
      assigned
      > the next darker shade based on the color I chose for Color 31
      (perhaps these
      > could be preferences set up by the user) at the same time, in the
      same
      > symbol. In other words I want to be able to pick Color 31 & CBB but
      have
      > them be different colors at the same time.
      >
      > Right now the only way I can make symbols that allow the user to
      pick the
      > base shade & add matching highlights is to split up a symbol into
      several
      > parts, making it into 2 or 3 pieces. For example a vase that has 2
      smaller
      > polys on it to simulate highlighting would then become 2 separate
      symbols
      > all defines as Color 31 or CBB. The user would choose the first
      color say
      > 150 for the vase, then choose 149 for the first highlight on the
      vase &
      > finally choose 148 for the top highlight. By using a small area &
      a common
      > origin these 3 pieces then snap together to make a single vase with
      > highlights in the color of the users choice.
      >
      > I have attached a small catalog to demonstrate what I mean in case
      I haven't
      > made this as clear. In the event that attachments are disabled you
      can
      > download the sample at
      http://www.profantasy.com/library/files/oursash.zip
      >
      > Thanks Mike :)
      >
      > Linda

      Linda...Never give up hope...I think we might be able to get
      something here....Thanks Mr. Riddle!

      Mike
    • Mike Riddle
      Hi Linda. My goal is to find a solution that will allow me to remove color 31 altogether. No more. Nada. Never was and Newver Will Be... etc. It just has too
      Message 2 of 13 , Nov 14, 2001
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        Hi Linda.

        My goal is to find a solution that will allow me to remove color 31 altogether.
        No more. Nada. Never was and Newver Will Be... etc. It just has too many
        side effects.

        What I propose should do wuat you want. First - allow proper dual behavor.
        Color and Color2 completely independent properties. Set them any way you like.
        Red outlines and bule fills. Now make entities.

        Add to the above - each property can be assigned CBB - so you could have
        outlines CBB, or fills, or both - the fill CBB would take the color2 fill
        color of the symbol reference, and the outline CBB would take the color1
        outline color of the symref - all as you choose.

        Lastly, all a palette that lets you define color pairs, so you make one
        selection, and
        it sets both color and color2 to whatever each was defined at in your palette.
        So you could have one entry that with one click sets black outlines and blue
        fill.
        Or both CBB, so that a symref with black/blue would have its CBB/CBB
        entities drawn in black and blue. While an entity in the symbol that was RED/CBB

        would draw red/blue.

        As I understand what you want, the above would do a fine job. You would have
        two very controlable color properties in all circumstances.

        Does this sould like it could work?
        Mike

        Linda Kekumu wrote:

        > Aloha Mike,
        >
        > I have also wanted a way to be able to select entities by Color2 for a long
        > time :) I would estimate that 95% of the time we use Black & another color
        > when using Color & Color2 if they are different colors. Currently the only
        > way to select these entities by Color is by choosing Black but that nets me
        > almost all of the entities in the map. It would be great if I could select
        > them by Color2. It would be great to be able to select by Color2, I would
        > love this as a feature. This would be very handy but this isn't what I
        > meant.
        >
        > Often when I make a symbol I add a second poly (different shape, smaller) on
        > top of the original poly to simulate shading or a shadow or a highlight.
        > This helps make more attractive symbols, gives them some shape or depth.
        > Often we use 2 shading colors. Usually we use a base color like 150 as the
        > base color & then add shading in color 149 & 148.
        >
        > Currently we have Color 31 & CBB that a user can select when they add a
        > symbol to the map but as I understand it there is no way to use both of
        > these simultaneously using different colors for Color 31 & CBB. This is a
        > shame because there are 2 different things but we can only use them
        > interchangeable - there is no way to pick color 150 as Color 31 & color 149
        > as CBB at the same time. Currently both Color 31 & CBB are the same color,
        > at the same time.
        >
        > Ideally I could make a symbol using Color 31 as the base & CBB for the
        > shading & be able to pick 2 different colors (150 for Color 31 & 149 for
        > CBB) or even have a way to use Color 31 & have CBB automatically assigned
        > the next darker shade based on the color I chose for Color 31 (perhaps these
        > could be preferences set up by the user) at the same time, in the same
        > symbol. In other words I want to be able to pick Color 31 & CBB but have
        > them be different colors at the same time.
        >
        > Right now the only way I can make symbols that allow the user to pick the
        > base shade & add matching highlights is to split up a symbol into several
        > parts, making it into 2 or 3 pieces. For example a vase that has 2 smaller
        > polys on it to simulate highlighting would then become 2 separate symbols
        > all defines as Color 31 or CBB. The user would choose the first color say
        > 150 for the vase, then choose 149 for the first highlight on the vase &
        > finally choose 148 for the top highlight. By using a small area & a common
        > origin these 3 pieces then snap together to make a single vase with
        > highlights in the color of the users choice.
        >
        > I have attached a small catalog to demonstrate what I mean in case I haven't
        > made this as clear. In the event that attachments are disabled you can
        > download the sample at http://www.profantasy.com/library/files/oursash.zip
        >
        > Thanks Mike :)
        >
        > Linda
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: Mike Riddle [mailto:mriddle@...]
        > Sent: November 14, 2001 2:44 AM
        > To: cc2-dev-l@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: Re: [cc2-dev-l] Re: Curious about colors (Need Mike Riddle)
        >
        > Color 31 has several technical problems associated with it, all on its own.
        > The
        > Color-by-block is intended to be its replacement, and there is a 2nd color
        > attribute for fill styles, currently set by CHANGEC2, that allows the
        > fill to be a different color from the outline.
        >
        > As I understand it, the real issue is that is too clumsy to work with. What
        > I am thinking of doing is the following: Making a COLOR2 command
        > and selection tools so it is a current property, just like COLOR is.
        > And allowing alternate screen tools that pick these in sets - whenever you
        > pick a color, you will pick a set of two colors that get assigned, so you
        > can define your pairs and then use them like you currently do.
        > Note that Color-by-block is a single color - each of a pair could be
        > independently set to CBB, which would copy the symbol reference's
        > color or color2, as appropriate.
        >
        > Please think about this approach and discuss it, and when we get
        > something worked out, I'll try to implement it. But I do want to
        > loose the color 31, replacing it with CBB. There is a command,
        > CHANGESCBB that sets alls symbols in a drawing to have all
        > of their contained entities CBB, for easy replacement of color 31
        > with CBB.
        >
        > Comments?
        >
        > Linda Kekumu wrote:
        >
        > > Hi Mike :)
        > >
        > > Well, the answer all along has been no, it's not possible, but maybe Mike
        > > can answer it definitively for you.
        > >
        > > I had originally asked for a second user definable color that could be set
        > > either a shade or 2 shades lighter or darker than the Color 31 color. But
        > it
        > > wasn't possible to do that so we developed some tools for Character Artist
        > > that let you have a set of colors that you can toggle between (base &
        > shadow
        > > color) & then we just split up the symbols into base symbols & shading
        > > symbols so you could choose 2 different colors because you are placing 2
        > > different colors. Now, I admit I would much prefer to have a second user
        > > definable "color 31" or even to be able to set color 31 to one color &
        > Same
        > > as Symbol Color to a different color, but I was told it just wasn't
        > > possible/feasible.
        > >
        > > Have you tried the Varicolor toggle in Character Artist?
        > >
        > > Linda Kekumu
        > > ProFantasy Software, Ltd.
        > > http://www.profantasy.com
        > >
        > > "If you make the DM laugh so hard that coffee comes out her nose, we
        > die."
        > > "You know that, don't you???"
        > >
        > > -----Original Message-----
        > > From: kiatar@... [mailto:kiatar@...]
        > > Sent: November 13, 2001 3:09 PM
        > > To: cc2-dev-l@yahoogroups.com
        > > Subject: [cc2-dev-l] Re: Curious about colors (Need Mike Riddle)
        > >
        > > --- In cc2-dev-l@y..., Linda Kekumu <lkekumu@s...> wrote:
        > > > Hi :)
        > > >
        > > > I have asked & wished for something like this for several years
        > > now, but
        > > > it's just not possible. You can only have a single user selected
        > > color -
        > > > Color 31 or Same as Symbol Color - these are not identical but for
        > > all
        > > > intents & purposes they are interchangeable. There is only one user
        > > > selectable color.
        > > >
        > > > I agree that it would make symbols much better, in fact that is
        > > exactly the
        > > > reason I asked about this 3 years ago. Even though CC2 has Color 31
        > > & a
        > > > color that is the "Same as Symbol Color" they are not separately
        > > definable -
        > > > they both are the same color - whatever color you choose, but they
        > > are both
        > > > the same. Technically they are different but for all practical
        > > purposes they
        > > > should be treated as the same thing.
        > > >
        > > > Linda Kekumu
        > > > ProFantasy Software, Ltd.
        > > > http://www.profantasy.com
        > > >
        > > > "If you make the DM laugh so hard that coffee comes out her nose,
        > > we die."
        > > > "You know that, don't you???"
        > >
        > > Ok...can we have a color that is equivalent to color 31 +/- the right
        > > value to be a perfect shade though?
        > >
        > > Hopefully Mike Riddle can answer this for us Linda...
        > >
        > > To Post a message, send it to: cc2-dev-l@...
        > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: cc2-dev-l-unsubscribe@...
        > >
        > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        > To Post a message, send it to: cc2-dev-l@...
        > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: cc2-dev-l-unsubscribe@...
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        > To Post a message, send it to: cc2-dev-l@...
        > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: cc2-dev-l-unsubscribe@...
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
        > Name: oursash.zip
        > oursash.zip Type: Zip Compressed Data (application/x-zip-compressed)
        > Encoding: base64
      • Linda Kekumu
        Hi Mike, I don t think I am getting it. Each entity has an outline & a fill, where outline = color & fill = color2 & these are going to be separate properties.
        Message 3 of 13 , Nov 14, 2001
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          Hi Mike,

          I don't think I am getting it.

          Each entity has an outline & a fill, where outline = color & fill = color2 &
          these are going to be separate properties. I can choose CBB for either the
          outline, the fill or both. The palette will allow me to define Color & Color
          2 easily, so let's say I set them up as 147, 148

          outline = color = 147
          fill = color2 = 148

          "the fill CBB would take the color2 fill color of the symbol reference, and
          the outline CBB would take the color1 outline color of the symref"

          OK, so I draw a circle that is CBB/CBB & I get a circle that is 147/148. To
          make the circle all color 147 I would need to use 147/CBB, to make it all
          148 I would need to use CBB/148

          To make a circle the is CBB/CBB & is all the same color number then both
          color & color2 would need to be the same color, right?

          Ok, well I can't figure out what combination of the above will allow me to
          define a single symbol with 2 polys where both polys are CBB & that will let
          the user choose 2 different colors - one color for each poly.

          I don't want multicolored single entities, I want multiple entities that
          allow the user to choose 2 different colors, one color for each entity once
          they are defined as symbols. For example, let's just pretend that CBB &
          Color 31 could select different colors, I would make one poly CBB & the
          other poly Color 31 & the user could choose color 147 as CBB & color 148 as
          Color 31 - the outline & fill properties in the entities would be set as
          CBB/CBB & color 31/color 31.

          What have I missed?

          Linda


          -----Original Message-----
          From: Mike Riddle [mailto:mriddle@...]
          Sent: November 14, 2001 5:06 PM
          To: cc2-dev-l@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [cc2-dev-l] Re: Curious about colors (Need Mike Riddle)


          Hi Linda.

          My goal is to find a solution that will allow me to remove color 31
          altogether.
          No more. Nada. Never was and Newver Will Be... etc. It just has too many
          side effects.

          What I propose should do wuat you want. First - allow proper dual behavor.
          Color and Color2 completely independent properties. Set them any way you
          like.
          Red outlines and bule fills. Now make entities.

          Add to the above - each property can be assigned CBB - so you could have
          outlines CBB, or fills, or both - the fill CBB would take the color2 fill
          color of the symbol reference, and the outline CBB would take the color1
          outline color of the symref - all as you choose.

          Lastly, all a palette that lets you define color pairs, so you make one
          selection, and
          it sets both color and color2 to whatever each was defined at in your
          palette.
          So you could have one entry that with one click sets black outlines and blue
          fill.
          Or both CBB, so that a symref with black/blue would have its CBB/CBB
          entities drawn in black and blue. While an entity in the symbol that was
          RED/CBB

          would draw red/blue.

          As I understand what you want, the above would do a fine job. You would have
          two very controlable color properties in all circumstances.

          Does this sould like it could work?
          Mike

          Linda Kekumu wrote:

          > Aloha Mike,
          >
          > I have also wanted a way to be able to select entities by Color2 for a
          long
          > time :) I would estimate that 95% of the time we use Black & another color
          > when using Color & Color2 if they are different colors. Currently the only
          > way to select these entities by Color is by choosing Black but that nets
          me
          > almost all of the entities in the map. It would be great if I could select
          > them by Color2. It would be great to be able to select by Color2, I would
          > love this as a feature. This would be very handy but this isn't what I
          > meant.
          >
          > Often when I make a symbol I add a second poly (different shape, smaller)
          on
          > top of the original poly to simulate shading or a shadow or a highlight.
          > This helps make more attractive symbols, gives them some shape or depth.
          > Often we use 2 shading colors. Usually we use a base color like 150 as the
          > base color & then add shading in color 149 & 148.
          >
          > Currently we have Color 31 & CBB that a user can select when they add a
          > symbol to the map but as I understand it there is no way to use both of
          > these simultaneously using different colors for Color 31 & CBB. This is a
          > shame because there are 2 different things but we can only use them
          > interchangeable - there is no way to pick color 150 as Color 31 & color
          149
          > as CBB at the same time. Currently both Color 31 & CBB are the same color,
          > at the same time.
          >
          > Ideally I could make a symbol using Color 31 as the base & CBB for the
          > shading & be able to pick 2 different colors (150 for Color 31 & 149 for
          > CBB) or even have a way to use Color 31 & have CBB automatically assigned
          > the next darker shade based on the color I chose for Color 31 (perhaps
          these
          > could be preferences set up by the user) at the same time, in the same
          > symbol. In other words I want to be able to pick Color 31 & CBB but have
          > them be different colors at the same time.
          >
          > Right now the only way I can make symbols that allow the user to pick the
          > base shade & add matching highlights is to split up a symbol into several
          > parts, making it into 2 or 3 pieces. For example a vase that has 2 smaller
          > polys on it to simulate highlighting would then become 2 separate symbols
          > all defines as Color 31 or CBB. The user would choose the first color say
          > 150 for the vase, then choose 149 for the first highlight on the vase &
          > finally choose 148 for the top highlight. By using a small area & a
          common
          > origin these 3 pieces then snap together to make a single vase with
          > highlights in the color of the users choice.
          >
          > I have attached a small catalog to demonstrate what I mean in case I
          haven't
          > made this as clear. In the event that attachments are disabled you can
          > download the sample at http://www.profantasy.com/library/files/oursash.zip
          >
          > Thanks Mike :)
          >
          > Linda
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: Mike Riddle [mailto:mriddle@...]
          > Sent: November 14, 2001 2:44 AM
          > To: cc2-dev-l@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: Re: [cc2-dev-l] Re: Curious about colors (Need Mike Riddle)
          >
          > Color 31 has several technical problems associated with it, all on its
          own.
          > The
          > Color-by-block is intended to be its replacement, and there is a 2nd color
          > attribute for fill styles, currently set by CHANGEC2, that allows the
          > fill to be a different color from the outline.
          >
          > As I understand it, the real issue is that is too clumsy to work with.
          What
          > I am thinking of doing is the following: Making a COLOR2 command
          > and selection tools so it is a current property, just like COLOR is.
          > And allowing alternate screen tools that pick these in sets - whenever you
          > pick a color, you will pick a set of two colors that get assigned, so you
          > can define your pairs and then use them like you currently do.
          > Note that Color-by-block is a single color - each of a pair could be
          > independently set to CBB, which would copy the symbol reference's
          > color or color2, as appropriate.
          >
          > Please think about this approach and discuss it, and when we get
          > something worked out, I'll try to implement it. But I do want to
          > loose the color 31, replacing it with CBB. There is a command,
          > CHANGESCBB that sets alls symbols in a drawing to have all
          > of their contained entities CBB, for easy replacement of color 31
          > with CBB.
          >
          > Comments?
          >
          > Linda Kekumu wrote:
          >
          > > Hi Mike :)
          > >
          > > Well, the answer all along has been no, it's not possible, but maybe
          Mike
          > > can answer it definitively for you.
          > >
          > > I had originally asked for a second user definable color that could be
          set
          > > either a shade or 2 shades lighter or darker than the Color 31 color.
          But
          > it
          > > wasn't possible to do that so we developed some tools for Character
          Artist
          > > that let you have a set of colors that you can toggle between (base &
          > shadow
          > > color) & then we just split up the symbols into base symbols & shading
          > > symbols so you could choose 2 different colors because you are placing 2
          > > different colors. Now, I admit I would much prefer to have a second user
          > > definable "color 31" or even to be able to set color 31 to one color &
          > Same
          > > as Symbol Color to a different color, but I was told it just wasn't
          > > possible/feasible.
          > >
          > > Have you tried the Varicolor toggle in Character Artist?
          > >
          > > Linda Kekumu
          > > ProFantasy Software, Ltd.
          > > http://www.profantasy.com
          > >
          > > "If you make the DM laugh so hard that coffee comes out her nose, we
          > die."
          > > "You know that, don't you???"
          > >
          > > -----Original Message-----
          > > From: kiatar@... [mailto:kiatar@...]
          > > Sent: November 13, 2001 3:09 PM
          > > To: cc2-dev-l@yahoogroups.com
          > > Subject: [cc2-dev-l] Re: Curious about colors (Need Mike Riddle)
          > >
          > > --- In cc2-dev-l@y..., Linda Kekumu <lkekumu@s...> wrote:
          > > > Hi :)
          > > >
          > > > I have asked & wished for something like this for several years
          > > now, but
          > > > it's just not possible. You can only have a single user selected
          > > color -
          > > > Color 31 or Same as Symbol Color - these are not identical but for
          > > all
          > > > intents & purposes they are interchangeable. There is only one user
          > > > selectable color.
          > > >
          > > > I agree that it would make symbols much better, in fact that is
          > > exactly the
          > > > reason I asked about this 3 years ago. Even though CC2 has Color 31
          > > & a
          > > > color that is the "Same as Symbol Color" they are not separately
          > > definable -
          > > > they both are the same color - whatever color you choose, but they
          > > are both
          > > > the same. Technically they are different but for all practical
          > > purposes they
          > > > should be treated as the same thing.
          > > >
          > > > Linda Kekumu
          > > > ProFantasy Software, Ltd.
          > > > http://www.profantasy.com
          > > >
          > > > "If you make the DM laugh so hard that coffee comes out her nose,
          > > we die."
          > > > "You know that, don't you???"
          > >
          > > Ok...can we have a color that is equivalent to color 31 +/- the right
          > > value to be a perfect shade though?
          > >
          > > Hopefully Mike Riddle can answer this for us Linda...
          > >
          > > To Post a message, send it to: cc2-dev-l@...
          > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
          cc2-dev-l-unsubscribe@...
          > >
          > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
          http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          > To Post a message, send it to: cc2-dev-l@...
          > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: cc2-dev-l-unsubscribe@...
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          > To Post a message, send it to: cc2-dev-l@...
          > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: cc2-dev-l-unsubscribe@...
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
          > Name: oursash.zip
          > oursash.zip Type: Zip Compressed Data (application/x-zip-compressed)
          > Encoding: base64


          To Post a message, send it to: cc2-dev-l@...
          To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: cc2-dev-l-unsubscribe@...

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        • Smith, Steve
          I know that this sounds stupid, but what is CBB? Steve Smith steversmith@mindspring.com ... From: Linda Kekumu To:
          Message 4 of 13 , Nov 14, 2001
          • 0 Attachment
            I know that this sounds stupid, but what is CBB?

            Steve Smith
            steversmith@...


            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Linda Kekumu" <lkekumu@...>
            To: <cc2-dev-l@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 10:29 AM
            Subject: RE: [cc2-dev-l] Re: Curious about colors (Need Mike Riddle)


            > Aloha Mike,
            >
            > I have also wanted a way to be able to select entities by Color2 for a
            long
            > time :) I would estimate that 95% of the time we use Black & another color
            > when using Color & Color2 if they are different colors. Currently the only
            > way to select these entities by Color is by choosing Black but that nets
            me
            > almost all of the entities in the map. It would be great if I could select
            > them by Color2. It would be great to be able to select by Color2, I would
            > love this as a feature. This would be very handy but this isn't what I
            > meant.
            >
            > Often when I make a symbol I add a second poly (different shape, smaller)
            on
            > top of the original poly to simulate shading or a shadow or a highlight.
            > This helps make more attractive symbols, gives them some shape or depth.
            > Often we use 2 shading colors. Usually we use a base color like 150 as the
            > base color & then add shading in color 149 & 148.
            >
            > Currently we have Color 31 & CBB that a user can select when they add a
            > symbol to the map but as I understand it there is no way to use both of
            > these simultaneously using different colors for Color 31 & CBB. This is a
            > shame because there are 2 different things but we can only use them
            > interchangeable - there is no way to pick color 150 as Color 31 & color
            149
            > as CBB at the same time. Currently both Color 31 & CBB are the same color,
            > at the same time.
            >
            > Ideally I could make a symbol using Color 31 as the base & CBB for the
            > shading & be able to pick 2 different colors (150 for Color 31 & 149 for
            > CBB) or even have a way to use Color 31 & have CBB automatically assigned
            > the next darker shade based on the color I chose for Color 31 (perhaps
            these
            > could be preferences set up by the user) at the same time, in the same
            > symbol. In other words I want to be able to pick Color 31 & CBB but have
            > them be different colors at the same time.
            >
            > Right now the only way I can make symbols that allow the user to pick the
            > base shade & add matching highlights is to split up a symbol into several
            > parts, making it into 2 or 3 pieces. For example a vase that has 2 smaller
            > polys on it to simulate highlighting would then become 2 separate symbols
            > all defines as Color 31 or CBB. The user would choose the first color say
            > 150 for the vase, then choose 149 for the first highlight on the vase &
            > finally choose 148 for the top highlight. By using a small area & a
            common
            > origin these 3 pieces then snap together to make a single vase with
            > highlights in the color of the users choice.
            >
            > I have attached a small catalog to demonstrate what I mean in case I
            haven't
            > made this as clear. In the event that attachments are disabled you can
            > download the sample at http://www.profantasy.com/library/files/oursash.zip
            >
            > Thanks Mike :)
            >
            > Linda
            >
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: Mike Riddle [mailto:mriddle@...]
            > Sent: November 14, 2001 2:44 AM
            > To: cc2-dev-l@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: Re: [cc2-dev-l] Re: Curious about colors (Need Mike Riddle)
            >
            >
            > Color 31 has several technical problems associated with it, all on its
            own.
            > The
            > Color-by-block is intended to be its replacement, and there is a 2nd color
            > attribute for fill styles, currently set by CHANGEC2, that allows the
            > fill to be a different color from the outline.
            >
            > As I understand it, the real issue is that is too clumsy to work with.
            What
            > I am thinking of doing is the following: Making a COLOR2 command
            > and selection tools so it is a current property, just like COLOR is.
            > And allowing alternate screen tools that pick these in sets - whenever you
            > pick a color, you will pick a set of two colors that get assigned, so you
            > can define your pairs and then use them like you currently do.
            > Note that Color-by-block is a single color - each of a pair could be
            > independently set to CBB, which would copy the symbol reference's
            > color or color2, as appropriate.
            >
            > Please think about this approach and discuss it, and when we get
            > something worked out, I'll try to implement it. But I do want to
            > loose the color 31, replacing it with CBB. There is a command,
            > CHANGESCBB that sets alls symbols in a drawing to have all
            > of their contained entities CBB, for easy replacement of color 31
            > with CBB.
            >
            > Comments?
            >
            > Linda Kekumu wrote:
            >
            > > Hi Mike :)
            > >
            > > Well, the answer all along has been no, it's not possible, but maybe
            Mike
            > > can answer it definitively for you.
            > >
            > > I had originally asked for a second user definable color that could be
            set
            > > either a shade or 2 shades lighter or darker than the Color 31 color.
            But
            > it
            > > wasn't possible to do that so we developed some tools for Character
            Artist
            > > that let you have a set of colors that you can toggle between (base &
            > shadow
            > > color) & then we just split up the symbols into base symbols & shading
            > > symbols so you could choose 2 different colors because you are placing 2
            > > different colors. Now, I admit I would much prefer to have a second user
            > > definable "color 31" or even to be able to set color 31 to one color &
            > Same
            > > as Symbol Color to a different color, but I was told it just wasn't
            > > possible/feasible.
            > >
            > > Have you tried the Varicolor toggle in Character Artist?
            > >
            > > Linda Kekumu
            > > ProFantasy Software, Ltd.
            > > http://www.profantasy.com
            > >
            > > "If you make the DM laugh so hard that coffee comes out her nose, we
            > die."
            > > "You know that, don't you???"
            > >
            > > -----Original Message-----
            > > From: kiatar@... [mailto:kiatar@...]
            > > Sent: November 13, 2001 3:09 PM
            > > To: cc2-dev-l@yahoogroups.com
            > > Subject: [cc2-dev-l] Re: Curious about colors (Need Mike Riddle)
            > >
            > > --- In cc2-dev-l@y..., Linda Kekumu <lkekumu@s...> wrote:
            > > > Hi :)
            > > >
            > > > I have asked & wished for something like this for several years
            > > now, but
            > > > it's just not possible. You can only have a single user selected
            > > color -
            > > > Color 31 or Same as Symbol Color - these are not identical but for
            > > all
            > > > intents & purposes they are interchangeable. There is only one user
            > > > selectable color.
            > > >
            > > > I agree that it would make symbols much better, in fact that is
            > > exactly the
            > > > reason I asked about this 3 years ago. Even though CC2 has Color 31
            > > & a
            > > > color that is the "Same as Symbol Color" they are not separately
            > > definable -
            > > > they both are the same color - whatever color you choose, but they
            > > are both
            > > > the same. Technically they are different but for all practical
            > > purposes they
            > > > should be treated as the same thing.
            > > >
            > > > Linda Kekumu
            > > > ProFantasy Software, Ltd.
            > > > http://www.profantasy.com
            > > >
            > > > "If you make the DM laugh so hard that coffee comes out her nose,
            > > we die."
            > > > "You know that, don't you???"
            > >
            > > Ok...can we have a color that is equivalent to color 31 +/- the right
            > > value to be a perfect shade though?
            > >
            > > Hopefully Mike Riddle can answer this for us Linda...
            > >
            > > To Post a message, send it to: cc2-dev-l@...
            > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
            cc2-dev-l-unsubscribe@...
            > >
            > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
            http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >
            > To Post a message, send it to: cc2-dev-l@...
            > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: cc2-dev-l-unsubscribe@...
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >
            >
            > To Post a message, send it to: cc2-dev-l@...
            > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: cc2-dev-l-unsubscribe@...
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >
          • Linda Kekumu
            Hi Steve, Not stupid. It stands for Color by Block. It allows users to pick a color, then place a symbol. Provided they symbol was defined using CBB the color
            Message 5 of 13 , Nov 14, 2001
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              Hi Steve,

              Not stupid. It stands for Color by Block. It allows users to pick a color,
              then place a symbol. Provided they symbol was defined using CBB the color
              the user picks shows up in the symbol. CBB is a totally different type of
              object than Color 31 but the basic idea is the same - allowing the user to
              select a color for the symbol prior to placement.

              There are numerous little things you have to watch out for when using Color
              31 that CBB eliminates, so I tend to agree with Mike about getting rid of
              Color 31 unless there it could possibly lead to the ability to have 2 user
              selectable colors in the same symbol :)

              I don't know the technical aspects of CBB, I just know what it does, but I
              wonder if there could be CBB & CBB2 or even CBB3, where CBB2 & CBB3 were
              user selectable/definable? Since Mike made CBB available I have not used
              Color 31 at all because currently both Color 31 & CBB give the same color
              results & CBB is much easier to work with.

              Linda Kekumu
              ProFantasy Software, Ltd.
              http://www.profantasy.com

              "If you make the DM laugh so hard that coffee comes out her nose, we die."
              "You know that, don't you???"


              -----Original Message-----
              From: Smith, Steve [mailto:steversmith@...]
              Sent: November 14, 2001 9:13 PM
              To: cc2-dev-l@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [cc2-dev-l] Re: Curious about colors (Need Mike Riddle)


              I know that this sounds stupid, but what is CBB?

              Steve Smith
              steversmith@...
            • Mike Riddle
              Lets see if I understand: You want two color assigned to each symbol reference. You want entities within the symbol to be able to use either of these colors -
              Message 6 of 13 , Nov 15, 2001
              • 0 Attachment
                Lets see if I understand:

                You want two color assigned to each symbol reference.
                You want entities within the symbol to be able to use
                either of these colors - you want CBB1 and CBB2.

                So a symbol reference would be assigned say red/blue
                lines and brown/green fill.
                An entity within the symbol could pick either
                the red/blue CBB set, or the brown/green CBB set?

                The problem with color 31 is it is literally the last color
                drawn - perhaps the color of a screen tool that
                does an asynchronous repaint (why symcat entries
                are sometimes invisible). It has nothing whatever to
                do with the symbol reference, unless as often happens,
                it is the last thing drawn before the first entity within
                the symbol definition. Draw a green line in the SYMDEF,
                and the next color31 entity will be green.

                Mike

                Linda Kekumu wrote:

                > Hi Mike,
                >
                > I don't think I am getting it.
                >
                > Each entity has an outline & a fill, where outline = color & fill = color2 &
                > these are going to be separate properties. I can choose CBB for either the
                > outline, the fill or both. The palette will allow me to define Color & Color
                > 2 easily, so let's say I set them up as 147, 148
                >
                > outline = color = 147
                > fill = color2 = 148
                >
                > "the fill CBB would take the color2 fill color of the symbol reference, and
                > the outline CBB would take the color1 outline color of the symref"
                >
                > OK, so I draw a circle that is CBB/CBB & I get a circle that is 147/148. To
                > make the circle all color 147 I would need to use 147/CBB, to make it all
                > 148 I would need to use CBB/148
                >
                > To make a circle the is CBB/CBB & is all the same color number then both
                > color & color2 would need to be the same color, right?
                >
                > Ok, well I can't figure out what combination of the above will allow me to
                > define a single symbol with 2 polys where both polys are CBB & that will let
                > the user choose 2 different colors - one color for each poly.
                >
                > I don't want multicolored single entities, I want multiple entities that
                > allow the user to choose 2 different colors, one color for each entity once
                > they are defined as symbols. For example, let's just pretend that CBB &
                > Color 31 could select different colors, I would make one poly CBB & the
                > other poly Color 31 & the user could choose color 147 as CBB & color 148 as
                > Color 31 - the outline & fill properties in the entities would be set as
                > CBB/CBB & color 31/color 31.
                >
                > What have I missed?
                >
                > Linda
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: Mike Riddle [mailto:mriddle@...]
                > Sent: November 14, 2001 5:06 PM
                > To: cc2-dev-l@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: Re: [cc2-dev-l] Re: Curious about colors (Need Mike Riddle)
                >
                > Hi Linda.
                >
                > My goal is to find a solution that will allow me to remove color 31
                > altogether.
                > No more. Nada. Never was and Newver Will Be... etc. It just has too many
                > side effects.
                >
                > What I propose should do wuat you want. First - allow proper dual behavor.
                > Color and Color2 completely independent properties. Set them any way you
                > like.
                > Red outlines and bule fills. Now make entities.
                >
                > Add to the above - each property can be assigned CBB - so you could have
                > outlines CBB, or fills, or both - the fill CBB would take the color2 fill
                > color of the symbol reference, and the outline CBB would take the color1
                > outline color of the symref - all as you choose.
                >
                > Lastly, all a palette that lets you define color pairs, so you make one
                > selection, and
                > it sets both color and color2 to whatever each was defined at in your
                > palette.
                > So you could have one entry that with one click sets black outlines and blue
                > fill.
                > Or both CBB, so that a symref with black/blue would have its CBB/CBB
                > entities drawn in black and blue. While an entity in the symbol that was
                > RED/CBB
                >
                > would draw red/blue.
                >
                > As I understand what you want, the above would do a fine job. You would have
                > two very controlable color properties in all circumstances.
                >
                > Does this sould like it could work?
                > Mike
                >
                > Linda Kekumu wrote:
                >
                > > Aloha Mike,
                > >
                > > I have also wanted a way to be able to select entities by Color2 for a
                > long
                > > time :) I would estimate that 95% of the time we use Black & another color
                > > when using Color & Color2 if they are different colors. Currently the only
                > > way to select these entities by Color is by choosing Black but that nets
                > me
                > > almost all of the entities in the map. It would be great if I could select
                > > them by Color2. It would be great to be able to select by Color2, I would
                > > love this as a feature. This would be very handy but this isn't what I
                > > meant.
                > >
                > > Often when I make a symbol I add a second poly (different shape, smaller)
                > on
                > > top of the original poly to simulate shading or a shadow or a highlight.
                > > This helps make more attractive symbols, gives them some shape or depth.
                > > Often we use 2 shading colors. Usually we use a base color like 150 as the
                > > base color & then add shading in color 149 & 148.
                > >
                > > Currently we have Color 31 & CBB that a user can select when they add a
                > > symbol to the map but as I understand it there is no way to use both of
                > > these simultaneously using different colors for Color 31 & CBB. This is a
                > > shame because there are 2 different things but we can only use them
                > > interchangeable - there is no way to pick color 150 as Color 31 & color
                > 149
                > > as CBB at the same time. Currently both Color 31 & CBB are the same color,
                > > at the same time.
                > >
                > > Ideally I could make a symbol using Color 31 as the base & CBB for the
                > > shading & be able to pick 2 different colors (150 for Color 31 & 149 for
                > > CBB) or even have a way to use Color 31 & have CBB automatically assigned
                > > the next darker shade based on the color I chose for Color 31 (perhaps
                > these
                > > could be preferences set up by the user) at the same time, in the same
                > > symbol. In other words I want to be able to pick Color 31 & CBB but have
                > > them be different colors at the same time.
                > >
                > > Right now the only way I can make symbols that allow the user to pick the
                > > base shade & add matching highlights is to split up a symbol into several
                > > parts, making it into 2 or 3 pieces. For example a vase that has 2 smaller
                > > polys on it to simulate highlighting would then become 2 separate symbols
                > > all defines as Color 31 or CBB. The user would choose the first color say
                > > 150 for the vase, then choose 149 for the first highlight on the vase &
                > > finally choose 148 for the top highlight. By using a small area & a
                > common
                > > origin these 3 pieces then snap together to make a single vase with
                > > highlights in the color of the users choice.
                > >
                > > I have attached a small catalog to demonstrate what I mean in case I
                > haven't
                > > made this as clear. In the event that attachments are disabled you can
                > > download the sample at http://www.profantasy.com/library/files/oursash.zip
                > >
                > > Thanks Mike :)
                > >
                > > Linda
                > >
                > > -----Original Message-----
                > > From: Mike Riddle [mailto:mriddle@...]
                > > Sent: November 14, 2001 2:44 AM
                > > To: cc2-dev-l@yahoogroups.com
                > > Subject: Re: [cc2-dev-l] Re: Curious about colors (Need Mike Riddle)
                > >
                > > Color 31 has several technical problems associated with it, all on its
                > own.
                > > The
                > > Color-by-block is intended to be its replacement, and there is a 2nd color
                > > attribute for fill styles, currently set by CHANGEC2, that allows the
                > > fill to be a different color from the outline.
                > >
                > > As I understand it, the real issue is that is too clumsy to work with.
                > What
                > > I am thinking of doing is the following: Making a COLOR2 command
                > > and selection tools so it is a current property, just like COLOR is.
                > > And allowing alternate screen tools that pick these in sets - whenever you
                > > pick a color, you will pick a set of two colors that get assigned, so you
                > > can define your pairs and then use them like you currently do.
                > > Note that Color-by-block is a single color - each of a pair could be
                > > independently set to CBB, which would copy the symbol reference's
                > > color or color2, as appropriate.
                > >
                > > Please think about this approach and discuss it, and when we get
                > > something worked out, I'll try to implement it. But I do want to
                > > loose the color 31, replacing it with CBB. There is a command,
                > > CHANGESCBB that sets alls symbols in a drawing to have all
                > > of their contained entities CBB, for easy replacement of color 31
                > > with CBB.
                > >
                > > Comments?
                > >
                > > Linda Kekumu wrote:
                > >
                > > > Hi Mike :)
                > > >
                > > > Well, the answer all along has been no, it's not possible, but maybe
                > Mike
                > > > can answer it definitively for you.
                > > >
                > > > I had originally asked for a second user definable color that could be
                > set
                > > > either a shade or 2 shades lighter or darker than the Color 31 color.
                > But
                > > it
                > > > wasn't possible to do that so we developed some tools for Character
                > Artist
                > > > that let you have a set of colors that you can toggle between (base &
                > > shadow
                > > > color) & then we just split up the symbols into base symbols & shading
                > > > symbols so you could choose 2 different colors because you are placing 2
                > > > different colors. Now, I admit I would much prefer to have a second user
                > > > definable "color 31" or even to be able to set color 31 to one color &
                > > Same
                > > > as Symbol Color to a different color, but I was told it just wasn't
                > > > possible/feasible.
                > > >
                > > > Have you tried the Varicolor toggle in Character Artist?
                > > >
                > > > Linda Kekumu
                > > > ProFantasy Software, Ltd.
                > > > http://www.profantasy.com
                > > >
                > > > "If you make the DM laugh so hard that coffee comes out her nose, we
                > > die."
                > > > "You know that, don't you???"
                > > >
                > > > -----Original Message-----
                > > > From: kiatar@... [mailto:kiatar@...]
                > > > Sent: November 13, 2001 3:09 PM
                > > > To: cc2-dev-l@yahoogroups.com
                > > > Subject: [cc2-dev-l] Re: Curious about colors (Need Mike Riddle)
                > > >
                > > > --- In cc2-dev-l@y..., Linda Kekumu <lkekumu@s...> wrote:
                > > > > Hi :)
                > > > >
                > > > > I have asked & wished for something like this for several years
                > > > now, but
                > > > > it's just not possible. You can only have a single user selected
                > > > color -
                > > > > Color 31 or Same as Symbol Color - these are not identical but for
                > > > all
                > > > > intents & purposes they are interchangeable. There is only one user
                > > > > selectable color.
                > > > >
                > > > > I agree that it would make symbols much better, in fact that is
                > > > exactly the
                > > > > reason I asked about this 3 years ago. Even though CC2 has Color 31
                > > > & a
                > > > > color that is the "Same as Symbol Color" they are not separately
                > > > definable -
                > > > > they both are the same color - whatever color you choose, but they
                > > > are both
                > > > > the same. Technically they are different but for all practical
                > > > purposes they
                > > > > should be treated as the same thing.
                > > > >
                > > > > Linda Kekumu
                > > > > ProFantasy Software, Ltd.
                > > > > http://www.profantasy.com
                > > > >
                > > > > "If you make the DM laugh so hard that coffee comes out her nose,
                > > > we die."
                > > > > "You know that, don't you???"
                > > >
                > > > Ok...can we have a color that is equivalent to color 31 +/- the right
                > > > value to be a perfect shade though?
                > > >
                > > > Hopefully Mike Riddle can answer this for us Linda...
                > > >
                > > > To Post a message, send it to: cc2-dev-l@...
                > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                > cc2-dev-l-unsubscribe@...
                > > >
                > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                > >
                > > To Post a message, send it to: cc2-dev-l@...
                > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: cc2-dev-l-unsubscribe@...
                > >
                > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                > >
                > > To Post a message, send it to: cc2-dev-l@...
                > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: cc2-dev-l-unsubscribe@...
                > >
                > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                > >
                > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                > > Name: oursash.zip
                > > oursash.zip Type: Zip Compressed Data (application/x-zip-compressed)
                > > Encoding: base64
                >
                > To Post a message, send it to: cc2-dev-l@...
                > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: cc2-dev-l-unsubscribe@...
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >
                > To Post a message, send it to: cc2-dev-l@...
                > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: cc2-dev-l-unsubscribe@...
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              • Linda Kekumu
                Hi Mike :) Thanks for the info on Color 31. Yes, I want to be able to have a CBB1 & CBB2 - I d ask for CBB3 but that might be pushing it :) Generally, when
                Message 7 of 13 , Nov 15, 2001
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hi Mike :)

                  Thanks for the info on Color 31.

                  Yes, I want to be able to have a CBB1 & CBB2 - I'd ask for CBB3 but that
                  might be pushing it :) Generally, when making symbols, I would never select
                  a different colored outline & fill for the same CBB pairs but if Color &
                  Color2 are going to be independent then that is how it should probably work.
                  Users would just have to choose the same color for outline/fill CBB1 & a
                  different color for outline/fill CBB2.

                  >So a symbol reference would be assigned say red/blue lines and brown/green
                  fill. An entity within the symbol could pick >either the red/blue CBB set,
                  or the brown/green CBB set?

                  OK - I'm not sure how the technicalities work - would the pairs be outline
                  pairs & fill pairs? or outline/fill pair & outline/fill pair? Regardless, I
                  could choose a red/pink pair & a red/pink pair to get red/red & pink/pink.
                  If I could do that then it would work. (LOL - this reminds me of my grade 10
                  Biology class when we were studying genetics - Mendel's square or something
                  like that)

                  This would allow me to define for example a Vase symbol using CBB1 as the
                  base color & a circular highlight in CBB2. The user could then create custom
                  vases. They could have a 19/29 vase or a 212/214 vase & they vase would look
                  really nice because it would be the base vase plus a highlight. Right now
                  all I can do is define the base vase as CBB & let them pick whatever color
                  they want, but this is a pretty boring vase. Now, add a highlight & it
                  improves the vase so much more! Add 2 highlights & it's even better :) The
                  problem right now is that the use can only choose 1 color, so even if I
                  define the base & the highlight as CBB, both the base & the highlight will
                  be the same color & you won't see the highlight. If they could choose 2 or
                  even 3 colors this would greatly increase the possibilities of customizing
                  symbols. In fact, this would be incredible. I would love it!

                  Linda


                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Mike Riddle [mailto:mriddle@...]
                  Sent: November 15, 2001 3:32 AM
                  To: cc2-dev-l@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [cc2-dev-l] Re: Curious about colors (Need Mike Riddle)


                  Lets see if I understand:

                  You want two color assigned to each symbol reference.
                  You want entities within the symbol to be able to use
                  either of these colors - you want CBB1 and CBB2.

                  So a symbol reference would be assigned say red/blue
                  lines and brown/green fill.
                  An entity within the symbol could pick either
                  the red/blue CBB set, or the brown/green CBB set?

                  The problem with color 31 is it is literally the last color
                  drawn - perhaps the color of a screen tool that
                  does an asynchronous repaint (why symcat entries
                  are sometimes invisible). It has nothing whatever to
                  do with the symbol reference, unless as often happens,
                  it is the last thing drawn before the first entity within
                  the symbol definition. Draw a green line in the SYMDEF,
                  and the next color31 entity will be green.

                  Mike

                  Linda Kekumu wrote:

                  > Hi Mike,
                  >
                  > I don't think I am getting it.
                  >
                  > Each entity has an outline & a fill, where outline = color & fill = color2
                  &
                  > these are going to be separate properties. I can choose CBB for either the
                  > outline, the fill or both. The palette will allow me to define Color &
                  Color
                  > 2 easily, so let's say I set them up as 147, 148
                  >
                  > outline = color = 147
                  > fill = color2 = 148
                  >
                  > "the fill CBB would take the color2 fill color of the symbol reference,
                  and
                  > the outline CBB would take the color1 outline color of the symref"
                  >
                  > OK, so I draw a circle that is CBB/CBB & I get a circle that is 147/148.
                  To
                  > make the circle all color 147 I would need to use 147/CBB, to make it all
                  > 148 I would need to use CBB/148
                  >
                  > To make a circle the is CBB/CBB & is all the same color number then both
                  > color & color2 would need to be the same color, right?
                  >
                  > Ok, well I can't figure out what combination of the above will allow me to
                  > define a single symbol with 2 polys where both polys are CBB & that will
                  let
                  > the user choose 2 different colors - one color for each poly.
                  >
                  > I don't want multicolored single entities, I want multiple entities that
                  > allow the user to choose 2 different colors, one color for each entity
                  once
                  > they are defined as symbols. For example, let's just pretend that CBB &
                  > Color 31 could select different colors, I would make one poly CBB & the
                  > other poly Color 31 & the user could choose color 147 as CBB & color 148
                  as
                  > Color 31 - the outline & fill properties in the entities would be set as
                  > CBB/CBB & color 31/color 31.
                  >
                  > What have I missed?
                  >
                  > Linda
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: Mike Riddle [mailto:mriddle@...]
                  > Sent: November 14, 2001 5:06 PM
                  > To: cc2-dev-l@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: Re: [cc2-dev-l] Re: Curious about colors (Need Mike Riddle)
                  >
                  > Hi Linda.
                  >
                  > My goal is to find a solution that will allow me to remove color 31
                  > altogether.
                  > No more. Nada. Never was and Newver Will Be... etc. It just has too many
                  > side effects.
                  >
                  > What I propose should do wuat you want. First - allow proper dual behavor.
                  > Color and Color2 completely independent properties. Set them any way you
                  > like.
                  > Red outlines and bule fills. Now make entities.
                  >
                  > Add to the above - each property can be assigned CBB - so you could have
                  > outlines CBB, or fills, or both - the fill CBB would take the color2 fill
                  > color of the symbol reference, and the outline CBB would take the color1
                  > outline color of the symref - all as you choose.
                  >
                  > Lastly, all a palette that lets you define color pairs, so you make one
                  > selection, and
                  > it sets both color and color2 to whatever each was defined at in your
                  > palette.
                  > So you could have one entry that with one click sets black outlines and
                  blue
                  > fill.
                  > Or both CBB, so that a symref with black/blue would have its CBB/CBB
                  > entities drawn in black and blue. While an entity in the symbol that was
                  > RED/CBB
                  >
                  > would draw red/blue.
                  >
                  > As I understand what you want, the above would do a fine job. You would
                  have
                  > two very controlable color properties in all circumstances.
                  >
                  > Does this sould like it could work?
                  > Mike
                  >
                  > Linda Kekumu wrote:
                  >
                  > > Aloha Mike,
                  > >
                  > > I have also wanted a way to be able to select entities by Color2 for a
                  > long
                  > > time :) I would estimate that 95% of the time we use Black & another
                  color
                  > > when using Color & Color2 if they are different colors. Currently the
                  only
                  > > way to select these entities by Color is by choosing Black but that nets
                  > me
                  > > almost all of the entities in the map. It would be great if I could
                  select
                  > > them by Color2. It would be great to be able to select by Color2, I
                  would
                  > > love this as a feature. This would be very handy but this isn't what I
                  > > meant.
                  > >
                  > > Often when I make a symbol I add a second poly (different shape,
                  smaller)
                  > on
                  > > top of the original poly to simulate shading or a shadow or a highlight.
                  > > This helps make more attractive symbols, gives them some shape or depth.
                  > > Often we use 2 shading colors. Usually we use a base color like 150 as
                  the
                  > > base color & then add shading in color 149 & 148.
                  > >
                  > > Currently we have Color 31 & CBB that a user can select when they add a
                  > > symbol to the map but as I understand it there is no way to use both of
                  > > these simultaneously using different colors for Color 31 & CBB. This is
                  a
                  > > shame because there are 2 different things but we can only use them
                  > > interchangeable - there is no way to pick color 150 as Color 31 & color
                  > 149
                  > > as CBB at the same time. Currently both Color 31 & CBB are the same
                  color,
                  > > at the same time.
                  > >
                  > > Ideally I could make a symbol using Color 31 as the base & CBB for the
                  > > shading & be able to pick 2 different colors (150 for Color 31 & 149 for
                  > > CBB) or even have a way to use Color 31 & have CBB automatically
                  assigned
                  > > the next darker shade based on the color I chose for Color 31 (perhaps
                  > these
                  > > could be preferences set up by the user) at the same time, in the same
                  > > symbol. In other words I want to be able to pick Color 31 & CBB but have
                  > > them be different colors at the same time.
                  > >
                  > > Right now the only way I can make symbols that allow the user to pick
                  the
                  > > base shade & add matching highlights is to split up a symbol into
                  several
                  > > parts, making it into 2 or 3 pieces. For example a vase that has 2
                  smaller
                  > > polys on it to simulate highlighting would then become 2 separate
                  symbols
                  > > all defines as Color 31 or CBB. The user would choose the first color
                  say
                  > > 150 for the vase, then choose 149 for the first highlight on the vase &
                  > > finally choose 148 for the top highlight. By using a small area & a
                  > common
                  > > origin these 3 pieces then snap together to make a single vase with
                  > > highlights in the color of the users choice.
                  > >
                  > > I have attached a small catalog to demonstrate what I mean in case I
                  > haven't
                  > > made this as clear. In the event that attachments are disabled you can
                  > > download the sample at
                  http://www.profantasy.com/library/files/oursash.zip
                  > >
                  > > Thanks Mike :)
                  > >
                  > > Linda
                  > >
                  > > -----Original Message-----
                  > > From: Mike Riddle [mailto:mriddle@...]
                  > > Sent: November 14, 2001 2:44 AM
                  > > To: cc2-dev-l@yahoogroups.com
                  > > Subject: Re: [cc2-dev-l] Re: Curious about colors (Need Mike Riddle)
                  > >
                  > > Color 31 has several technical problems associated with it, all on its
                  > own.
                  > > The
                  > > Color-by-block is intended to be its replacement, and there is a 2nd
                  color
                  > > attribute for fill styles, currently set by CHANGEC2, that allows the
                  > > fill to be a different color from the outline.
                  > >
                  > > As I understand it, the real issue is that is too clumsy to work with.
                  > What
                  > > I am thinking of doing is the following: Making a COLOR2 command
                  > > and selection tools so it is a current property, just like COLOR is.
                  > > And allowing alternate screen tools that pick these in sets - whenever
                  you
                  > > pick a color, you will pick a set of two colors that get assigned, so
                  you
                  > > can define your pairs and then use them like you currently do.
                  > > Note that Color-by-block is a single color - each of a pair could be
                  > > independently set to CBB, which would copy the symbol reference's
                  > > color or color2, as appropriate.
                  > >
                  > > Please think about this approach and discuss it, and when we get
                  > > something worked out, I'll try to implement it. But I do want to
                  > > loose the color 31, replacing it with CBB. There is a command,
                  > > CHANGESCBB that sets alls symbols in a drawing to have all
                  > > of their contained entities CBB, for easy replacement of color 31
                  > > with CBB.
                  > >
                  > > Comments?
                  > >
                  > > Linda Kekumu wrote:
                  > >
                  > > > Hi Mike :)
                  > > >
                  > > > Well, the answer all along has been no, it's not possible, but maybe
                  > Mike
                  > > > can answer it definitively for you.
                  > > >
                  > > > I had originally asked for a second user definable color that could be
                  > set
                  > > > either a shade or 2 shades lighter or darker than the Color 31 color.
                  > But
                  > > it
                  > > > wasn't possible to do that so we developed some tools for Character
                  > Artist
                  > > > that let you have a set of colors that you can toggle between (base &
                  > > shadow
                  > > > color) & then we just split up the symbols into base symbols & shading
                  > > > symbols so you could choose 2 different colors because you are placing
                  2
                  > > > different colors. Now, I admit I would much prefer to have a second
                  user
                  > > > definable "color 31" or even to be able to set color 31 to one color &
                  > > Same
                  > > > as Symbol Color to a different color, but I was told it just wasn't
                  > > > possible/feasible.
                  > > >
                  > > > Have you tried the Varicolor toggle in Character Artist?
                  > > >
                  > > > Linda Kekumu
                  > > > ProFantasy Software, Ltd.
                  > > > http://www.profantasy.com
                  > > >
                  > > > "If you make the DM laugh so hard that coffee comes out her nose, we
                  > > die."
                  > > > "You know that, don't you???"
                  > > >
                  > > > -----Original Message-----
                  > > > From: kiatar@... [mailto:kiatar@...]
                  > > > Sent: November 13, 2001 3:09 PM
                  > > > To: cc2-dev-l@yahoogroups.com
                  > > > Subject: [cc2-dev-l] Re: Curious about colors (Need Mike Riddle)
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In cc2-dev-l@y..., Linda Kekumu <lkekumu@s...> wrote:
                  > > > > Hi :)
                  > > > >
                  > > > > I have asked & wished for something like this for several years
                  > > > now, but
                  > > > > it's just not possible. You can only have a single user selected
                  > > > color -
                  > > > > Color 31 or Same as Symbol Color - these are not identical but for
                  > > > all
                  > > > > intents & purposes they are interchangeable. There is only one user
                  > > > > selectable color.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > I agree that it would make symbols much better, in fact that is
                  > > > exactly the
                  > > > > reason I asked about this 3 years ago. Even though CC2 has Color 31
                  > > > & a
                  > > > > color that is the "Same as Symbol Color" they are not separately
                  > > > definable -
                  > > > > they both are the same color - whatever color you choose, but they
                  > > > are both
                  > > > > the same. Technically they are different but for all practical
                  > > > purposes they
                  > > > > should be treated as the same thing.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Linda Kekumu
                  > > > > ProFantasy Software, Ltd.
                  > > > > http://www.profantasy.com
                  > > > >
                  > > > > "If you make the DM laugh so hard that coffee comes out her nose,
                  > > > we die."
                  > > > > "You know that, don't you???"
                  > > >
                  > > > Ok...can we have a color that is equivalent to color 31 +/- the right
                  > > > value to be a perfect shade though?
                  > > >
                  > > > Hopefully Mike Riddle can answer this for us Linda...
                  > > >
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                  >
                  ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  > > Name: oursash.zip
                  > > oursash.zip Type: Zip Compressed Data
                  (application/x-zip-compressed)
                  > > Encoding: base64
                  >
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