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Re: [cathworker] David Morrison

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  • ihidayaNY@aol.com
    from reading the emails on the list for past few months, i think the Catholic Worker should have a funeral for clairication of thought . it appears to be
    Message 1 of 12 , May 1, 2005
      from reading the emails on the list for past few months, i think the Catholic
      Worker should have a funeral for 'clairication of thought'. it appears to be
      totally dead. without the ability to really listen, think and clarify, an
      improtant essential of being catholic worker is missing and leads to others
      conclusions about the vitality and integrity of the movement. Catholic Worker is
      not a title one just grabs or puts on....but an expression of certain ideals
      that enfolds one life.....and from the start, clarification of thought has been
      an essential part of CW ideals.

      a good example (one of many recently) is that Mr Morrison wrote a missive
      that was well thought out and expressed many of the principles of a Catholic
      viewpoint on his topic and a pastoral approach. there was no discussion of the
      PRINCIPLES he presented, only attacks on his personality and mud slinging in
      emotional generalities. obviously his missive hit some emotional buttons in those
      who responded and REACTED in such a way. but as they say in the garment
      district in NYC "one starts to see a pattern here" that is reflected in most of
      the way topics are handled.

      i am not sure the idea that just having "conversation" is good one. without
      the ability to really listen, not react but to ACT from clear thinking and
      express one self without personality attacks, hiding behind how many advanced
      degrees one has, how much theology one studied, or cliches from whatever
      ideological camp then things only become pathetic.

      perhaps if the emails reflect how bad, sad and poor the level of thinking and
      discussing has become in the CW , and it is a wake up call to really get back
      to the essentials, some good will come out of this. if not, the CW will just
      be living the "emperors new clothes" syndrome. behind all the title,
      degrees, ideologies and rants etc.......the guy is just plain naked and it is
      apparent to everyone else but himself.

      patrick in ny


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Alice Bach
      I am not sure how to measure clarification of thought. Until this week I had not heard of David Morrison. I appreciate reading his post and those who support
      Message 2 of 12 , May 1, 2005
        I am not sure how to measure clarification of thought. Until this week I
        had not heard of David Morrison. I appreciate reading his post and those
        who support his views, and those for whom his views are chilling. I have
        been trying to sort through a seeming contradiction in my own thoughts this
        week. How can one be against abortion and yet not give out items of birth
        control? And of course the condom and STD and HIV controversy. I continue
        to think of such things and appreciate the views of others. The seems to me
        to be clarification of thought, fine tuning. I do not expect clarification
        of thought to be a whiz bang change the mind kind of process.

        I agree that the list, myself included, may sound preachy or self-indulgent
        at times. Some of this is the translation from email prose into living
        language. My students often think I sound abrupt on email when I am just
        trying to save myself a few sentences of keyboarding. Perhaps we are
        sometimes confusing a burst of irritation on email with negativism, and
        think it is detrimental to clarification of thought. I would suggest,
        however, that one never knows which seed is the one that will sprout, and
        where it will thrive.

        The Joy of May Day to you all,

        In peace,
        Alice


        Alice Bach
        Archbishop Hallinan Chair of Catholic Studies
        Associate Professor of Religion
        105 Mather House
        CWRU 10900 Euclid Ave.
        Cleveland OH 44106
        216--368-1637
        216-761-7227 (home)
        216-496-6625 (cell) -- last resort




        For from Zion shall go forth instruction, and the word of the Lord from
        Jerusalem. God shall judge between the nations, and impose terms on many
        peoples. They shall beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into
        pruning hooks; one nation shall not raise the sword against another, nor
        shall they train for war again. Come, let us walk in the light of the Lord.
        - Isaiah 2: 2-4



        From: <ihidayaNY@...>
        Reply-To: <cathworker@yahoogroups.com>
        Date: Sun, 1 May 2005 07:24:53 EDT
        To: <cathworker@yahoogroups.com>
        Subject: Re: [cathworker] David Morrison

        from reading the emails on the list for past few months, i think the
        Catholic
        Worker should have a funeral for 'clairication of thought'. it appears to
        be
        totally dead. without the ability to really listen, think and clarify, an
        improtant essential of being catholic worker is missing and leads to others
        conclusions about the vitality and integrity of the movement. Catholic
        Worker is
        not a title one just grabs or puts on....but an expression of certain ideals
        that enfolds one life.....and from the start, clarification of thought has
        been
        an essential part of CW ideals.

        a good example (one of many recently) is that Mr Morrison wrote a missive
        that was well thought out and expressed many of the principles of a Catholic
        viewpoint on his topic and a pastoral approach. there was no discussion of
        the
        PRINCIPLES he presented, only attacks on his personality and mud slinging in
        emotional generalities. obviously his missive hit some emotional buttons in
        those
        who responded and REACTED in such a way. but as they say in the garment
        district in NYC "one starts to see a pattern here" that is reflected in
        most of
        the way topics are handled.

        i am not sure the idea that just having "conversation" is good one. without
        the ability to really listen, not react but to ACT from clear thinking and
        express one self without personality attacks, hiding behind how many
        advanced
        degrees one has, how much theology one studied, or cliches from whatever
        ideological camp then things only become pathetic.

        perhaps if the emails reflect how bad, sad and poor the level of thinking
        and
        discussing has become in the CW , and it is a wake up call to really get
        back
        to the essentials, some good will come out of this. if not, the CW will
        just
        be living the "emperors new clothes" syndrome. behind all the title,
        degrees, ideologies and rants etc.......the guy is just plain naked and it
        is
        apparent to everyone else but himself.

        patrick in ny


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



        More information about the Catholic Worker movement may be found online at
        http://www.catholicworker.org .



        Yahoo! Groups Links
        * To visit your group on the web, go to:
        * http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cathworker/
        *
        * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        * cathworker-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        <mailto:cathworker-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
        *
        * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
        <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Anthony Christiansen
        Thank you for your post, Alice. I think you re right about email communications. It s impossible to know exactly what people mean in this medium. There are
        Message 3 of 12 , May 1, 2005
          Thank you for your post, Alice. I think you're right about email
          communications. It's impossible to know exactly what people mean in this
          medium. There are so many things missing that we usually have in an
          in-person exchange, such as gesture, facial expression, tone of voice, etc.
          It is very easy to misinterpret people in email and so I try to be careful
          not to read too much into these kinds of communications.

          As far as contradictions go, thank you for your honesty. I think we are all
          full of contradictions and that it is okay, perhaps even a good thing. We
          are humans and on a path toward God, not yet fully there. As far as I'm
          aware, the only One without contradictions is God. And unless we're willing
          to admit the contingent nature of everything we think we know, we are
          engaging in a bit of self-idolatry.

          I very much like this saying attributed to an Irish bishop: "Lord, keep me
          in the company of those who seek the truth, and guard me from
          those who believe they have found it."

          Happy May Day to all!

          Peace! Anthony

          -----Original Message-----
          From: cathworker@yahoogroups.com [mailto:cathworker@yahoogroups.com] On
          Behalf Of Alice Bach
          Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2005 10:31 AM
          To: cathworker@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [cathworker] Measuring clarification of thought

          I am not sure how to measure clarification of thought. Until this week I
          had not heard of David Morrison. I appreciate reading his post and those
          who support his views, and those for whom his views are chilling. I have
          been trying to sort through a seeming contradiction in my own thoughts this
          week. How can one be against abortion and yet not give out items of birth
          control? And of course the condom and STD and HIV controversy. I continue
          to think of such things and appreciate the views of others. The seems to me
          to be clarification of thought, fine tuning. I do not expect clarification
          of thought to be a whiz bang change the mind kind of process.

          I agree that the list, myself included, may sound preachy or self-indulgent
          at times. Some of this is the translation from email prose into living
          language. My students often think I sound abrupt on email when I am just
          trying to save myself a few sentences of keyboarding. Perhaps we are
          sometimes confusing a burst of irritation on email with negativism, and
          think it is detrimental to clarification of thought. I would suggest,
          however, that one never knows which seed is the one that will sprout, and
          where it will thrive.

          The Joy of May Day to you all,

          In peace,
          Alice


          Alice Bach
          Archbishop Hallinan Chair of Catholic Studies
          Associate Professor of Religion
          105 Mather House
          CWRU 10900 Euclid Ave.
          Cleveland OH 44106
          216--368-1637
          216-761-7227 (home)
          216-496-6625 (cell) -- last resort




          For from Zion shall go forth instruction, and the word of the Lord from
          Jerusalem. God shall judge between the nations, and impose terms on many
          peoples. They shall beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into
          pruning hooks; one nation shall not raise the sword against another, nor
          shall they train for war again. Come, let us walk in the light of the Lord.
          - Isaiah 2: 2-4



          From: <ihidayaNY@...>
          Reply-To: <cathworker@yahoogroups.com>
          Date: Sun, 1 May 2005 07:24:53 EDT
          To: <cathworker@yahoogroups.com>
          Subject: Re: [cathworker] David Morrison

          from reading the emails on the list for past few months, i think the
          Catholic
          Worker should have a funeral for 'clairication of thought'. it appears to
          be
          totally dead. without the ability to really listen, think and clarify, an
          improtant essential of being catholic worker is missing and leads to others
          conclusions about the vitality and integrity of the movement. Catholic
          Worker is
          not a title one just grabs or puts on....but an expression of certain ideals
          that enfolds one life.....and from the start, clarification of thought has
          been
          an essential part of CW ideals.

          a good example (one of many recently) is that Mr Morrison wrote a missive
          that was well thought out and expressed many of the principles of a Catholic
          viewpoint on his topic and a pastoral approach. there was no discussion of
          the
          PRINCIPLES he presented, only attacks on his personality and mud slinging in
          emotional generalities. obviously his missive hit some emotional buttons in
          those
          who responded and REACTED in such a way. but as they say in the garment
          district in NYC "one starts to see a pattern here" that is reflected in
          most of
          the way topics are handled.

          i am not sure the idea that just having "conversation" is good one. without
          the ability to really listen, not react but to ACT from clear thinking and
          express one self without personality attacks, hiding behind how many
          advanced
          degrees one has, how much theology one studied, or cliches from whatever
          ideological camp then things only become pathetic.

          perhaps if the emails reflect how bad, sad and poor the level of thinking
          and
          discussing has become in the CW , and it is a wake up call to really get
          back
          to the essentials, some good will come out of this. if not, the CW will
          just
          be living the "emperors new clothes" syndrome. behind all the title,
          degrees, ideologies and rants etc.......the guy is just plain naked and it
          is
          apparent to everyone else but himself.

          patrick in ny


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



          More information about the Catholic Worker movement may be found online at
          http://www.catholicworker.org .



          Yahoo! Groups Links
          * To visit your group on the web, go to:
          * http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cathworker/
          *
          * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          * cathworker-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          <mailto:cathworker-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
          *
          * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
          <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




          More information about the Catholic Worker movement may be found online at
          http://www.catholicworker.org .
          Yahoo! Groups Links
        • Harold Kryszna
          On this list among more than a few folks, there seems to me to be some kind of patterned association of sex with violence and animalistic behavior and its
          Message 4 of 12 , May 1, 2005
            On this list among more than a few folks, there seems to me to be some
            kind of patterned association of sex with violence and animalistic
            behavior and its disassociation with intimacy. In such cases, doing
            without sex is probably a good idea.
          • John Médaille
            ... I am shocked, SHOCKED, to hear that there might be a connection between sex and violence, or an association with doing what animals do. John C. Médaille
            Message 5 of 12 , May 1, 2005
              At 05:46 PM 5/1/2005 +0000, Harold Kryszna wrote:
              >On this list among more than a few folks, there seems to me to be some
              >kind of patterned association of sex with violence and animalistic
              >behavior and its disassociation with intimacy. In such cases, doing
              >without sex is probably a good idea.

              I am shocked, SHOCKED, to hear that there might be a connection between
              sex and violence, or an association with doing what animals do.


              John C. Médaille
              http://www.medaille.com/distributivism.htm

              "Since the primary motive of the evil is disguise, one of the places evil
              people are most likely to be found is in the Church. What better way to
              conceal one's evil from oneself, as well as from others..." Martin Buber
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