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Re: Is Jesus God

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  • latics7
    ... Given that the first chapter of St. John s Gospel in which Jesus is referred to as The Word says that he is, so also does the Creed we say at Mass that
    Message 1 of 4 , Feb 1, 2012
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      --- In catholicquestions@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Miron <patrickmiron66@...> wrote:
      >
      > God Bless,
      > Pat
      >
      Given that the first chapter of St. John's Gospel in which Jesus is referred to as "The Word" says that he is, so also does the Creed we say at Mass that originates with the Council of Nicea 325 AD. Yes, Jesus is God. Do I believe it? Yep. Can I be convinced otherwise? No.

      :)
    • church.historian
      Isn t the Word another name for the Logos, the first born of all creation, that created everything else? Didn t the term originate with Philo of Alexandria
      Message 2 of 4 , Feb 11, 2012
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        Isn't the "Word" another name for the Logos, the first born of all creation, that created everything else? Didn't the term originate with Philo of Alexandria who took the concept from Greek philosophy,the Logos as an intermediate divine being or "demiurge."

        Paul was a Greek Jew. Didn't he write in Col 1:15:

        "He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; for in* him all things in heaven and on earth were created, things visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or powers—all things have been created through him and for him. He himself is before all things, and in* him all things hold together." (NRSV)

        CH



        --- In catholicquestions@yahoogroups.com, "latics7" <latics7@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In catholicquestions@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Miron <patrickmiron66@> wrote:
        > >
        > > God Bless,
        > > Pat
        > >
        > Given that the first chapter of St. John's Gospel in which Jesus is referred to as "The Word" says that he is, so also does the Creed we say at Mass that originates with the Council of Nicea 325 AD. Yes, Jesus is God. Do I believe it? Yep. Can I be convinced otherwise? No.
        >
        > :)
        >
      • j.s299
        Word is English for Greek Logos. It also could be translated Thought and similar. Which makes sense since words express or come from thoughts. The use of
        Message 3 of 4 , Feb 24, 2012
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          "Word" is English for Greek "Logos."
          It also could be translated "Thought" and similar.
          Which makes sense since words express or come from thoughts.
          The use of "Logos" for "God" or for a governing principle of the universe apparently was first made, as far as our knowledge goes,
          by Heraclitus around 500 BC, which would be near, but after, Daniel,
          for example.

          So it was used that way in Greek culture long before Philo. Nor are his nuances or uses of it governing, for example, over Paul or other Christians, or Jews, or Greeks.

          God speaking (and thinking, and being a Person, personal) are evident from Moses. In Genesis etc. From the start. In Moses' experience, and in his writing. Man is made in the image of God. So God thinks, and even in the very second or so sentence of the Bible God speaks.
          And His speaking is His creation. This identifies God with His word, or His Word, needless to say long before Philo. And long before Heraclitus. One might say, given the Bible (or even without the prophetic writings): God and God's word is just common sense.

          There also in the very opening sentences of Genesis are God's Spirit. God's Breath. Which, like his Word, emanates from Him. I suppose in that sense you could call them "intermediate"---in that they are mediators from God to us. Mediating (giving, presenting) God to us.
          But such language is kind of silly. In that, with healthy human beings, are words and our breath "are" us. They express us.
          They are pictures of the Divine Trinity. Who are not only 3 like people. But are also one like a person.

          They are not "separate" people, nor subordinate or created gods, as in mormonism or polytheism or Jehovah Witnessism or Arianism or perhaps like Philo (a contemporary of Jesus) may have expressed.

          You might argue that God created His words, or breath. But as a Person, to the contrary, your thought(s) and breath, your life and essence, your mind and emotions and will, are always with you. Are.........you. Hence, "in the beginning was the Word and the Word was God......and the Word was with God." Regardless what Philo's other Greek philosophers' or theologians' thought was, or what others' thoughts later were: John and the New Testament (and Old) are unequivocal that the Word (Christ, the Son) is God.
          And that God is 3 in 1.

          As the "Firstborn" of creation, Christ is the preeminence, and center, of the created world, the created universe. All matter and all creation. It does not mean that He is created first in time. Of course Christ as God, God Himself, are the Creator. As also Moses and John (and Paul) write. Christ, as a human being, since the Word became flesh (John 1:14), is also "creation." He is both Creator and creation now. Simultaneously. For.............His eternal purpose.
          Which Paul and Jesus and John and Moses also reference. Which well they should. Since it is God's eternal purpose and desire.

          Simply put: Christ Jesus is....................Wonderful.



          --- In catholicquestions@yahoogroups.com, "church.historian" <church.historian@...> wrote:
          >
          > Isn't the "Word" another name for the Logos, the first born of all creation, that created everything else? Didn't the term originate with Philo of Alexandria who took the concept from Greek philosophy,the Logos as an intermediate divine being or "demiurge."
          >
          > Paul was a Greek Jew. Didn't he write in Col 1:15:
          >
          > "He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; for in* him all things in heaven and on earth were created, things visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or powers—all things have been created through him and for him. He himself is before all things, and in* him all things hold together." (NRSV)
          >
          > CH
          >
          >
          >
          > --- In catholicquestions@yahoogroups.com, "latics7" <latics7@> wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > --- In catholicquestions@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Miron <patrickmiron66@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > God Bless,
          > > > Pat
          > > >
          > > Given that the first chapter of St. John's Gospel in which Jesus is referred to as "The Word" says that he is, so also does the Creed we say at Mass that originates with the Council of Nicea 325 AD. Yes, Jesus is God. Do I believe it? Yep. Can I be convinced otherwise? No.
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