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Sola Scriptura

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  • nuclearmed
    What is YOUR definition of Sola Scriptura and how do you support it from Scripture? God Bless Nathan
    Message 1 of 37 , May 27, 2011
      What is YOUR definition of Sola Scriptura and how do you support it from Scripture?

      God Bless
      Nathan
    • Nathan
      Agreed. ... -- In reality , holiness consists of one thing only : complete loyalty to God s will . ( from Abandonment to Divine Providence , by Fr.Caussade
      Message 37 of 37 , Jul 15, 2011
        Agreed.

        On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 10:40 AM, michael quinlan <mpquin@...> wrote:
         

        This sounds rather, black and white, don't you think?  Was there nothing of value that came from Trent?  Were all the leaders of the Church gripped by paranoia?  I believe many elements of the Mass were standardized.  Weren't indulgences reformed?  What of missionary work? Counter-Reformation Saints and their writings?  I think, it bears looking at again.



        On Jul 15, 2011, Cecilieaux <cecilieaux@...> wrote:

         

        That's where I might quibble. For roughly 400 years, the Counter-Reformation froze Catholicism into a defensive posture intolerant of all criticism, to the point that the extant corruption within became impossible to remove and the institution lost all real relevance in human society and the gospel is no longer anywhere heard. (Of course, had it been?)

        On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 9:28 AM, michael quinlan <mpquin@...> wrote:


        If this is the case, the Roman Catholic Church owes a great debt of gratitude to Mr. Luther's bowel misfunctions.  Without Mr. Luther there would be no Counter-Reformation, and all the consequences that resulted from those reforms.


        On Jul 15, 2011, Cecilieaux <cecilieaux@...> wrote:

         

        My understanding is that Luther spent an inordinate time in the bathroom trying to go. He apparently took reading and writing materials with him.  I think I read that in Erickson's book. There is, apparently, testimony of the bathroom time. Monasteries are not exactly the most private of places.

        If this is true, and I won't swear on a stack of Bibles that it is, my surmise would be that a great deal of his makeup is related to the psychosomatic effects of constipation.

        He experienced profound frustration. He probably yearned for a life in which all important things were in harmony with one another and which he, in his profound solitude, could grasp the hand of God with confidence, without gargantuan effort.

        "The hell with all the remedies they give me for my body (and my soul)," he might have thought. "I can do it on my own if I can only have X, Y and Z at my disposal, without doctors and priests telling me what to do."

        Of course, this is just hypothesizing. I don't remember Brother Martin very well ...

        On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 6:45 PM, michael quinlan <mpquin@...> wrote:


        Are you sure you mean constipation, not consternation, conflagration, or contemplation?


        On Jul 14, 2011, Cecilieaux <cecilieaux@...> wrote:

         

        According to some reports, he invented with a great deal of constipation. (Erik Erickson, Young Man Luther ... I think)

        On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 4:28 PM, Nathan <rdnuclearmed@...> wrote:
        My apologies, I rushed into writing a reply and neglected to measure
        my words. Martin Luther probably did not decide to invent his doctrine
        of Sola Scriptura 'willy-nilly'. He did invent it but probably with
        good and noble intentions.

        God Bless
        Nathan

        On Thursday, July 14, 2011, Cecilieaux <cecilieaux@...> wrote:
        >
        >       On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 1:01 PM, Nathan <rdnuclearmed@...> wrote:
        >
        > "willy nilly"?
        > OK. Missed the hyphen: willy-nilly. Happy now?
        >
        > Luther did that with his doctrine of Sola Scriptura which can be found nowhere in Scripture.
        >
        > I would hardly call the Luther's process of deliberation willy-nilly. Read "Here I Stand" by Roland Bainton, one of the major histories about Luther by a respected academic.
        >
        >
        > God Bless
        > Nathan
        >
        > On Thursday, July 14, 2011, Cecilieaux <cecilieaux@...> wrote:
        >>
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        >>       I think that this misses the point of how doctrine has become doctrine. Before Trent there were various listings of "inspired" books, but no major statement about the meaning or significance of those lists. Then came Luther to challenge some OT books (he also wanted to kick out a few NT books, but changed his mind).
        >>
        >> That's when an ecumenical council took the bull by the horns and stated the contents and significance of a biblical canon, at Trent.
        >>
        >> The important thing to note here is that almost all doctrine that cannot be directly traced to a biblical mandate, in particular words attributed to Jesus, have all been defined via the via negativa, to deny assertions raised later on subjects that we have no reason to believe that Jesus or the apostles gave any thought whatsoever.
        >>
        >> The via negativa is the path to many major doctrines. The idea of the trinity as stated officially would have crossed the eyes of the apostles, yet it was a logical way to deny certain heresies. Transubstantiation was chosen by Lateran IV among 21 candidates as an explanation for a sacramental process that began to be questioned in the middle ages, as a precursor of the Reformation, when it was altogether denied.
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        >> The point is that, contrary to much popular opinion, the teachers of the Church (bishops) haven't historically gone out of their way to add things willy nilly, but they have generally responded (in some cases erroneously, such as in the condemnation of Galileo) to challenges -- and even then slowly and ponderously, with enormous debate and caution.
        >>
        >> Cheers,
        >> C
        >>
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        >> On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 7:28 PM, Brian Atwood <specimenb@...> wrote:
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        >> A quick correction. The books were not canonized at Trent. They were reaffirmed at Trent thus the name "deuterocanonical" translated "canonized a second time". Pope Damasus I called together the Council of Rome in 382AD. During that council, all the Septuagint books were included along with the New Testament books we have now (except for 2 Corinthians and Revelations) creating the first record of a unified biblical canon. Then again, in 393AD, the canon was listed at the Council of Hippo with the addition of 2 Corinthians and Revelations. In 397AD the Hippo canon was listed at the Council of Carthage, agreed upon and sent to Rome for confirmation. Pope Innocent I confirmed the Carthage list in a letter sent to bishops instructing them of the permanent canon in 405AD.
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        >> By 1522, Martin Luther had become notorious for his "religious revolution" against the Catholic Church. That year he published his own translation of the New Testament in German, changing it to fit his doctrine. In 1534 he published the entire Bible in German with the deutero books removed from the Old Testament. It was in response to this publication that the fourth session of the Council of Trent, in 1546AD, reaffirmed the Catholic canon and declared that anyone who removed or added to the Bible was to be excommunicated. Many Protestants today believe that the books were made up by the Catholic Church and placed in the Bible at Trent to support its teachings. This is a very unfortunate result of the lack of education in the history of the Bible, the result being now the Protestants are left with a mutilated version of the Bible and excluded from many important and inspiring teachings.
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        >> "We concede --
        >> as we must -- that so much of what they [the Catholic Church] say is true: that
        >> the papacy has God's word and the office of the apostles, and that we have
        >> received Holy Scriptures, Baptism, the Sacrament, and the pulpit from them.
        >> What would we know of these if it were not for them?" Martin Luther's Sermon
        >> on the gospel of St. John, chaps. 14 - 16 (1537), in vol. 24 of LUTHER'S WORKS,
        >> St. Louis, Mo.: Concordia, 1961, 304.
        >> Brian
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        >> --
        >> Cecilieaux -- blogging at:
        >> Cecilieaux! -- musings of a contrarian <http://cecilieaux.blogspot.com/>
        >> Desde
        >> Yanquilandia <http://desdeyanquilandia.blogspot.com/>
        >> Headline du Jour <http://headlinedujour.wordpress.com/>
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        > --
        > " In reality , holiness consists of one thing only : complete loyalty to
        > God's will . "
        > ( from Abandonment to Divine Providence , by Fr.Caussade )
        >
        > "I should not believe the Gospel except as moved by the authority of the
        > Catholic Church."
        > ( Augustine, Against the Epistle of Manichaeus Called Fundamental, 5,6)
        >
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        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
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        > --
        > Cecilieaux -- blogging at:
        > Cecilieaux! -- musings of a contrarian <http://cecilieaux.blogspot.com/>
        > Desde
        > Yanquilandia <http://desdeyanquilandia.blogspot.com/>
        > Headline du Jour <http://headlinedujour.wordpress.com/>
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        --
        " In reality , holiness consists of one thing only : complete loyalty to
        God's will . "
        ( from Abandonment to Divine Providence , by Fr.Caussade )

        "I should not believe the Gospel except as moved by the authority of the
        Catholic Church."
        ( Augustine, Against the Epistle of Manichaeus Called Fundamental, 5,6)


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        --
        Cecilieaux -- blogging at:
        Cecilieaux! -- musings of a contrarian
        Desde Yanquilandia
        Headline du Jour

         






        --
        Cecilieaux -- blogging at:
        Cecilieaux! -- musings of a contrarian
        Desde Yanquilandia
        Headline du Jour

         






        --
        Cecilieaux -- blogging at:
        Cecilieaux! -- musings of a contrarian
        Desde Yanquilandia
        Headline du Jour

         




        --
        " In reality , holiness consists of one thing only : complete loyalty to God's will . "
        ( from Abandonment to Divine Providence , by Fr.Caussade )

        "I should not believe the Gospel except as moved by the authority of the Catholic Church."
        ( Augustine, Against the Epistle of Manichaeus Called Fundamental, 5,6)

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