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  • Tanique
    I have read that catholicism is mainly based on pagan worship such as christmas and easter which were said to be pagan holidays
    Message 1 of 4 , Jul 31, 2010
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      I have read that catholicism is mainly based on pagan worship such as christmas and easter which were said to be pagan holidays
    • Jon
      I think there is an element of truth to this (with regard to Christmas) but please take the time to understand the context. First, as far as I know, Easter is
      Message 2 of 4 , Aug 1, 2010
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        I think there is an element of truth to this (with regard to Christmas) but please take the time to understand the context.

        First, as far as I know, Easter is Easter. We know from numerous Gospel passages (Matt 26, Mark 14, Luke 22, John 13, 18, etc) that the crucifixion and resurrection took place around Passover which is why Easter is celebrated when it is. So I don't believe there is any real pagan connection here. (The holiday has been "paganized" with the introduction of the Easter Bunny, etc. but that's a whole different story!)

        Now... for Christmas, we have no Gospel account of exactly what month or day Christ was born. Around the 4th Century, the early Christian Church chose December 25th as the date to celebrate Christ's birth. This was likely because it was 9 months after the Annunciation, the day Christ was conceived.

        Supposedly there was no thought or concern given to the fact that this came closely to the Pagan/Roman celebration of the birthday of Sol Invictus. However, I've also heard people speculate that this date connection was a "bonus" as a way to help bring Pagans over to Christianity. In the end it worked out this way, since the Pagan holiday was "swallowed up" by Christmas and many pagans were ultimately converted.

        So in the absence of really knowing the exact date, this date worked out well for the early Church in terms of its growth. Granted it's not ideal because they didn't know the exact date, but you can't really blame them for this action since it ultimately benefited the Church. Plus, does it really matter if we celebrate on the right day? The important thing is that we take time to remember the birth of Christ and remember everything He did for us.

        One last note... before you attack "Catholicism" for choosing this date, I remind you that the early Christian Church chose the date in the 4th Century, nearly a 1,000 years before the protestant reformation. For better or worse, it's not a Catholic thing, it's a Christian thing.

        I hope this helps! Write back if you have any other questions!

        God bless!

        Jon

        --- In catholicquestions@yahoogroups.com, "Tanique" <tiffie4lyphe@...> wrote:
        >
        > I have read that catholicism is mainly based on pagan worship such as christmas and easter which were said to be pagan holidays
        >
      • ehlsmith@worldnet.att.net
        Also, the question seems to presuppose that Catholicism is mostly defined by its external rituals. I m sure a lot of Catholics would disagree and say there are
        Message 3 of 4 , Aug 1, 2010
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          Also, the question seems to presuppose that Catholicism is mostly defined by its external rituals. I'm sure a lot of Catholics would disagree and say there are much more important elements to it than a few outward practices, regardless of what their origins were.

          Just to clarify on one point though, Jon. There is one pagan connection to Easter- the name itself. But this is only an English language practice. It's a holdover from the days when Augustine and others were converting the pagan Anglo-Saxons. In most Catholic countries the Feast of the Resurrection is called by a name related to paschua.

          ehlsmith

          --- In catholicquestions@yahoogroups.com, "Jon" <pax_65@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > I think there is an element of truth to this (with regard to Christmas) but please take the time to understand the context.
          >
          > First, as far as I know, Easter is Easter. We know from numerous Gospel passages (Matt 26, Mark 14, Luke 22, John 13, 18, etc) that the crucifixion and resurrection took place around Passover which is why Easter is celebrated when it is. So I don't believe there is any real pagan connection here. (The holiday has been "paganized" with the introduction of the Easter Bunny, etc. but that's a whole different story!)
          >
          > Now... for Christmas, we have no Gospel account of exactly what month or day Christ was born. Around the 4th Century, the early Christian Church chose December 25th as the date to celebrate Christ's birth. This was likely because it was 9 months after the Annunciation, the day Christ was conceived.
          >
          > Supposedly there was no thought or concern given to the fact that this came closely to the Pagan/Roman celebration of the birthday of Sol Invictus. However, I've also heard people speculate that this date connection was a "bonus" as a way to help bring Pagans over to Christianity. In the end it worked out this way, since the Pagan holiday was "swallowed up" by Christmas and many pagans were ultimately converted.
          >
          > So in the absence of really knowing the exact date, this date worked out well for the early Church in terms of its growth. Granted it's not ideal because they didn't know the exact date, but you can't really blame them for this action since it ultimately benefited the Church. Plus, does it really matter if we celebrate on the right day? The important thing is that we take time to remember the birth of Christ and remember everything He did for us.
          >
          > One last note... before you attack "Catholicism" for choosing this date, I remind you that the early Christian Church chose the date in the 4th Century, nearly a 1,000 years before the protestant reformation. For better or worse, it's not a Catholic thing, it's a Christian thing.
          >
          > I hope this helps! Write back if you have any other questions!
          >
          > God bless!
          >
          > Jon
          >
          > --- In catholicquestions@yahoogroups.com, "Tanique" <tiffie4lyphe@> wrote:
          > >
          > > I have read that catholicism is mainly based on pagan worship such as christmas and easter which were said to be pagan holidays
          > >
          >
        • Brian Atwood
          It was not uncommon for the Christian Church to replace Pagan feast days with Christian ones. This was a method of easing the conversion of Pagans. Easter is
          Message 4 of 4 , Aug 2, 2010
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            It was not uncommon for the Christian Church to replace Pagan feast days with Christian ones. This was a method of easing the conversion of Pagans.
             
            Easter is only named as such because of the month it typically resided in. In German, the name for the month of April was called Eoster-monath or the Month of Eoster. Eoster was a goddess in ancient German mytholgy.
             
            It's not much different than our months. August named after the Roman Emperor Augustus Ceaser, July after Julius Ceaser, January after Janus, etc. Some radical Christian sects call Catholicism pagan because of Christmas falling on what Pagans consider the winter solstice and Easter getting the root of it's name for a pagan German goddess.
             
            Easter wasn't originally named Easter. It's just the name that became popular and used by the multitude. It's was originally just called the Pascal Feast.

            On Sun, Aug 1, 2010 at 2:03 PM, <ehlsmith@...> wrote:
             

            Also, the question seems to presuppose that Catholicism is mostly defined by its external rituals. I'm sure a lot of Catholics would disagree and say there are much more important elements to it than a few outward practices, regardless of what their origins were.

            Just to clarify on one point though, Jon. There is one pagan connection to Easter- the name itself. But this is only an English language practice. It's a holdover from the days when Augustine and others were converting the pagan Anglo-Saxons. In most Catholic countries the Feast of the Resurrection is called by a name related to paschua.

            ehlsmith

            --- In catholicquestions@yahoogroups.com, "Jon" <pax_65@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > I think there is an element of truth to this (with regard to Christmas) but please take the time to understand the context.
            >
            > First, as far as I know, Easter is Easter. We know from numerous Gospel passages (Matt 26, Mark 14, Luke 22, John 13, 18, etc) that the crucifixion and resurrection took place around Passover which is why Easter is celebrated when it is. So I don't believe there is any real pagan connection here. (The holiday has been "paganized" with the introduction of the Easter Bunny, etc. but that's a whole different story!)
            >
            > Now... for Christmas, we have no Gospel account of exactly what month or day Christ was born. Around the 4th Century, the early Christian Church chose December 25th as the date to celebrate Christ's birth. This was likely because it was 9 months after the Annunciation, the day Christ was conceived.
            >
            > Supposedly there was no thought or concern given to the fact that this came closely to the Pagan/Roman celebration of the birthday of Sol Invictus. However, I've also heard people speculate that this date connection was a "bonus" as a way to help bring Pagans over to Christianity. In the end it worked out this way, since the Pagan holiday was "swallowed up" by Christmas and many pagans were ultimately converted.
            >
            > So in the absence of really knowing the exact date, this date worked out well for the early Church in terms of its growth. Granted it's not ideal because they didn't know the exact date, but you can't really blame them for this action since it ultimately benefited the Church. Plus, does it really matter if we celebrate on the right day? The important thing is that we take time to remember the birth of Christ and remember everything He did for us.
            >
            > One last note... before you attack "Catholicism" for choosing this date, I remind you that the early Christian Church chose the date in the 4th Century, nearly a 1,000 years before the protestant reformation. For better or worse, it's not a Catholic thing, it's a Christian thing.
            >
            > I hope this helps! Write back if you have any other questions!
            >
            > God bless!
            >
            > Jon
            >
            > --- In catholicquestions@yahoogroups.com, "Tanique" <tiffie4lyphe@> wrote:
            > >
            > > I have read that catholicism is mainly based on pagan worship such as christmas and easter which were said to be pagan holidays
            > >
            >


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