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Re: Catholic Questions Re:Revelations of Heaven & Hell

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  • gich2
    Again, I think we re at crossed purposes. No one denies that sacraments exist but the crucial question is whether _participation_ is essential for salvation or
    Message 1 of 59 , Nov 1 2:04 AM
      Again, I think we're at crossed purposes. No one denies that sacraments exist but the crucial question is whether _participation_ is essential for salvation or not?
      Just to make things more specific, and using your examples, perhaps you'd like to consider the following questions.
      Is it essential to be baptised to be saved?
      Is it essential to be married to be saved?
      Peace
      Gich
       
       
       
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: dutchgal
      Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 7:24 PM
      Subject: Re: Catholic Questions Re:Revelations of Heaven & Hell

      The sacrament of baptism is required in the Protestant
      bible as well as in the Catholic bible.
       
      Another sacrament in the Protestant bible is marriage.
      In one post she said that Protestants have only one
      sacrament, which is wrong. It has two.
       
      Sharon
       
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: gich2
      Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 2:04 PM
      Subject: Re: Catholic Questions Re:Revelations of Heaven & Hell

      I think you're misunderstanding Carol Anne's point. Agreeing or disagreeing with sacraments has nothing to do with it. All she's saying is that the bible does not state explicitly that participation in the 7 sacraments is _necessary_ for salvation. If people want to participate in the 7 sacraments then that's fine, but this 'participation' is _not_ commanded by the bible. That's all she's saying. And it's truth is undeniable.
      Peace
      Gich
       
       
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Carla
      Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2007 6:43 PM
      Subject: Catholic Questions Re:Revelations of Heaven & Hell

      Anne, where does it have the word 'trinity'? Fidel has done an
      excellent job telling you what the sacraments are, which are all
      found in the Bible, which is, imho, a lot easier to see as self
      explanatory then the Trinity. If there is a sacrament that you don't
      agree with then maybe that is a good place to start, if that is, you
      are seriously willing to dicuss the issues.

      Or we can talk about something else, like Justification in its
      regards to salvation, which also helps to understand the heart of the
      matter. Either way, I'm hoping that you aren't here on these two
      Catholic groups that I participate in just to accuse, but to actually
      discuss issues that may be concerning you about the Roman Rite of the
      Church.

      Peace, Carla
      ex-Baptist

      --- In catholicquestions@ yahoogroups. com, "annie kendrick"
      <lil_softy_ann@ ...> wrote:
      >
      > ---
      > Salsa man....Where in the bible does it say anything about the
      7Holy
      > Sacrament... Stop going around the issue... Just answer the question
      > about 7 sacrament... . Thats a Rome thing!!!
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > In catholicquestions@ yahoogroups. com, salsaman60 <no_reply@>
      > wrote:
      > >
      > > Dear Carrol Anne
      > > To know of God, is one thing. But, to believe in God is another
      > thing.
      > >
      > > Yes, God the Father sent His Son to redeem us. He also gave Jesus
      > > Christ the true Word by which we must live by; in order to gain
      > > salvation: To believe in every word spoken by Jesus Christ. As
      > Jesus
      > > Said " Amen, I say to you, until Heaven and earth pass away, not
      > the
      > > smallest letter or the smallest part of a letter will pass from
      the
      > > Law until all things have taken place" Mat. 5, 18-19
      > >
      > > So, Keeping that in mind, Jesus established His Church, when he
      > gave
      > > the Apostle Peter the Keys of the Kingdom. He said " ..thou are
      > > Peter, upon this rock I will built my ChurchÂ…." Mat.16, 18-19 At
      > that
      > > moment Jesus made Peter the head of His church.
      > >
      > > Now, in combination to establishing His Church, He established
      > seven
      > > Holy Sacraments, by which we must live by, in order to gain
      > > salvation. Without four of these Holy Sacraments, we cannot enter
      > > into the eternal Kingdom. They are Baptism; Reconciliation;
      > Eucharist
      > > and Confirmation. Jesus Christ made a very strong statement to
      all
      > of
      > > us, when he said " Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has
      > > eternal life and I will raise him on the last day" John 8, 54-55.
      > The
      > > other three Sacraments, are Matrimony; Holy Orders and
      > > Extremeunction.
      > >
      > > So in answer to your question: There is only One True Word;
      Church
      > > and Scraments for salvation.
      > >
      > > I understand that this might be difficult, for you to understand,
      > > because you probably never had the opportunity to received proper
      > > Religious instructions on the true Word of God. It is never to
      > late.
      > > If you have a calling to receive the true Word of God, I highly
      > > suggest you attend a Religious Catholic Instructions for Adults
      > > (RCIA) program. They are provided at any Catholic parish.
      > >
      > > Take care. May God Bless you.
      > >
      > > Fidel
      > >
      > >
      > > Good Morning
      > > Should'nt we all be more concerned about salvation ??? Not what
      > > church they go to..I mean as long as the beleave in God and his
      Son
      > > Jesus Christ..
      > >
      > > God So love the world that he sent his only begotten son....
      > >
      > > Carrol Anne
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Lamb of God you take away the sins of the world
      > >
      >


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    • planter654
      ... what Jesus ... of ... on ... The ... Church as ... foundation ... (Luke ... to build ... foundation. ... 21:14 ... foundations. ... The ... We are ...
      Message 59 of 59 , Nov 19 10:57 AM
        --- In catholicquestions@yahoogroups.com, "Brian Atwood"
        <specimenb@...> wrote:
        >
        > Your analogy of the keys to your house is outside the context of
        what Jesus
        > said. To give someone the keys in the Jewish culture is a metaphor
        of
        > authority. At that moment, Peter was made steward of Jesus' kingdom
        on
        > Earth. He and all to Apostles were commanded to shepherd His sheep.
        The
        > Church continues to do this even now with Jesus as the head of the
        Church as
        > He has always been.
        >
        >
        >
        > There are multiple references to foundation. I'm guessing the
        foundation
        > you're speaking of is the parable representing Jesus' teachings
        (Luke
        > 6:47-49). In this He's referring to His teachings as a foundation
        to build
        > oneself upon. And you're correct, the Church is built on that
        foundation.
        > The Apostles are also called a foundation in the Bible. Revelations
        21:14
        > when describing the New Jerusalem "The wall of the city had 12
        foundations.
        > The 12 names of the 12 apostles of the lamb were written on them."
        The
        > visible Catholic Church is an integral part of God's plan for us.
        We are
        > sheep and sheep lose their way without a shepherd. The Church is the
        > appointed shepherd left here to guide us (John 21:15-16).
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > From: catholicquestions@yahoogroups.com
        > [mailto:catholicquestions@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of planter654
        > Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 7:41 AM
        > To: catholicquestions@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: Catholic Questions Re:Revelations of Heaven & Hell
        >
        > Is Jesus Christ not the "HEAD" of the Church? Did Yahweh not
        > say that Jesus Christ is the "High Priest" for ever over his
        church?
        > Are we not each one of us those who make up his church? Our we not
        > EACH A MEMEBER, who believes, make up Christ body,who make up his
        > church? Did Jesus not say "do you not know that your body is a
        living
        > temple of God? Is there not "ONE YAHWEH", "ONE KINGDOM", " ONE
        > BODY", "ONE CHURCH" "ONE FAMILY"?
        >
        > When Jesus gave ST. Peter the keys, > > > > >Jesus said; " upon
        this
        > rock "I will" built "MY" church, did he not say those words? Jesus
        > did not make St.Peter the Head of his church for Yahweh gave and
        made
        > Jesus to be the Head " the HIGH PRIEST" over his church, did he
        not?
        > I look at it this way. When I give someone the "KEYS TO MY HOUSE"
        > THAT DOES NOT MEAN THEY ARE NOW THE OWNER OF MY HOUSE or the Head.
        > Only that I give the keys to them for I trust them and that they
        love
        > me and will do what I ask them. Are they not who have the keys not
        > serving me? Till I get back home,don't you think? That person whom
        I
        > give the keys to can unlock it to enter in or lock it also for
        > others, so someone does not come in to steal, right? Don't you
        think?
        > But also the person for whom "I" give the keys to does not give
        them
        > to someone else for I did not command them to do so, don't you
        think?
        >
        > What I am saying only is what St. Paul said: "IF YOU BOAST, BOAST
        > ONLY OF WHAT YOU HAVE RECEIVED FOR "ALL HAVE RECEIVED" SO "NO ONE"
        > CAN BOAST".
        >
        > For those who choose to be first will be last!!
        >
        > Upon this rock, "I WILL" build "MY" church. Is it not being built
        > upon Jesus foundation that he is building his church? Did Jesus not
        > say also "who ever builds" upon "MY" foundation, who ever (each one
        > of us)it be with, stone, wood or straw---forgive me please look the
        > rest up,I forget what Jesus final words were to that statement, his
        > message, but I am only discussing so as to understand the truth.
        >
        > Yahweh is "HOLY" and has a great plan and Yahweh is one of order,
        > don't you think. Not till all the Gentles are in, did Jesus not say?
        >
        > Thanks LOVE TO ALL. This web site is great to discuss about our
        > Yahweh and Jesus!
        >
        > > > > > > Lamb of God you take away the sins of the world
        > > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > ------------------------------
        > > > >
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        > Date:
        > > > > 29/10/2007 09:28
        > > > >
        > > > > ------------------------------
        > > > >
        > > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
        > > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
        > > > > Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.14/1100 - Release
        > Date:
        > > > > 30/10/2007 18:26
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > ------------------------------
        > > >
        > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
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        Date:
        > > > 01/11/2007 06:01
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > >Thank you for helping me understand and in correcting me! Love to
        you all!
        >
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