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Quote from Fr.Corapi

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  • Keith
    There is no such thing as being a good Catholic and being disobedient to the Holy Father. There is no such thing as being a good Catholic and being a
    Message 1 of 13 , May 1, 2007
      "There is no such thing as being a good Catholic and being disobedient
      to the Holy Father. There is no such thing as being a good Catholic and
      being a dissident when it comes to faith and morals. There is no such
      thing as dissent from authentic and authoritative Church teaching. No
      such thing. Those who do that separate themselves from Christ and His
      body. They become dead members of the body of Christ."-Fr.John Corapi
    • signal to noise
      There is no such thing as being a good Catholic and being disobedient to the Holy Father. There is no such thing as being a good Catholic and being a
      Message 2 of 13 , May 1, 2007
        "There is no such thing as being a good Catholic and being disobedient
        to the Holy Father. There is no such thing as being a good Catholic and
        being a dissident when it comes to faith and morals. There is no such
        thing as dissent from authentic and authoritative Church teaching. No
        such thing. Those who do that separate themselves from Christ and His
        body. They become dead members of the body of Christ."-Fr.John Corapi

        -----

        Oh boy. I disagree. Kierkegaard disagreed. I think even Walker Percy -- a
        catholic in good standing -- would have disagreed. I think the Anglican C.
        S. Lewis would have disagreed.

        This is why I refer to myself as a bad Catholic: I cannot in good conscience
        accept every decree that extends from Rome...not without considering it from
        my own understanding of Christ.

        Yes, what I'm essentially saying is I don't accept, without question, the
        infallibility of the papacy.

        I spoke about this in another forum: there is Christ, then there is his
        Church, lastly there is the institution serving the Church. I view the Pope
        as the head of the institution.

        Only Christ heads the church...no other.

        I should point out here -- because some (if they had the power) would
        excommunicate me on the spot -- I attend Mass, follow the prescriptions of
        Christianity, but I don't take the sacraments. To my mind, to do so when I
        fall so clearly outside the the conventions of the institution, would be at
        the least disrespectful.

        Where the Church falls down, to my mind, is allowing the institution that
        services it to call the shots.

        When did the Bible, the New Testament, the Gospels become an instrument for
        the institution? It should be the other way around.

        The Protestant strains are no better, generating their own hierarchies and
        doctrines.

        Christianity is supposed to be about an unmediated relationship between
        Christ and the individual. It should be private, subjective (not relative),
        and personal. The trappings should aid this, not prohibit, proscribe,
        formalize, or make mandatory 'a' way.

        There's 'the' way as established by Christ himself, and he summed it up in
        the two great commandments:

        Love God with your whole heart, mind, and soul.
        Love the other as you love yourself.

        Seems simple...it's not.

        So, why do I sit my dissident self in mass On Sundays? Well, I grew up with
        Catholicism, in a Catholic community, with a Catholic culture. I know
        Catholicism, whereas the Methodists, Lutherans, Episcopalians and so on
        always seemed 'off' to me. So, in part, my being a (bad) Catholic is simple
        familiarity and ease. I stand aligned with the Church on the essentials;
        stand, if not opposed then at least apart, from the institution in matters
        of human generated dogma, and -- most important -- I'm on my knees before
        Christ working to be submissive to his will.

        I am far from being successful in that last item.

        So: who wants to rip me an new one?

        _________________________________________________________________
        Download Messenger. Join the i�m Initiative. Help make a difference today.
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      • Ken H.
        And what percentage of Roman Catholics are practicing birth control? Ken Keith wrote: There is no such
        Message 3 of 13 , May 1, 2007
          And what percentage of Roman Catholics are practicing birth control?

          Ken

          Keith <jkland06@...> wrote:
          "There is no such thing as being a good Catholic and being disobedient
          to the Holy Father. There is no such thing as being a good Catholic and
          being a dissident when it comes to faith and morals. There is no such
          thing as dissent from authentic and authoritative Church teaching. No
          such thing. Those who do that separate themselves from Christ and His
          body. They become dead members of the body of Christ."-Fr. John Corapi



          Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
          Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos.

        • Keith
          There is no such thing as being a good Catholic and being disobedient to the Holy Father. There is no such thing as being a good Catholic and
          Message 4 of 13 , May 1, 2007
            "There is no such thing as being """a good Catholic""" and being
            disobedient
            to the Holy Father. There is no such thing as being """a good
            Catholic""" and
            being a dissident when it comes to faith and morals. There is no such
            thing as dissent from authentic and authoritative Church teaching. No
            such thing.""" Those who do that separate themselves from Christ and
            His
            body.""" """They become dead members of the body of Christ."""-
            Fr.John Corapi

            --- In catholicquestions@yahoogroups.com, "Ken H." <khawn@...> wrote:
            >
            > And what percentage of Roman Catholics are practicing birth control?
            >
            > Ken
            >
            > Keith <jkland06@...> wrote: "There
            is no such thing as being a good Catholic and being disobedient
            > to the Holy Father. There is no such thing as being a good
            Catholic and
            > being a dissident when it comes to faith and morals. There is no
            such
            > thing as dissent from authentic and authoritative Church teaching.
            No
            > such thing. Those who do that separate themselves from Christ and
            His
            > body. They become dead members of the body of Christ."-Fr.John
            Corapi
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ---------------------------------
            > Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
            > Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
            >
          • Ken H.
            So, what is the alternative to being a Good Catholic? Ken Keith wrote: There is no such thing as being
            Message 5 of 13 , May 1, 2007
              So, what is the alternative to being a "Good Catholic?"

              Ken

              Keith <jkland06@...> wrote:
              "There is no such thing as being """a good Catholic""" and being
              disobedient
              to the Holy Father. There is no such thing as being """a good
              Catholic""" and
              being a dissident when it comes to faith and morals. There is no such
              thing as dissent from authentic and authoritative Church teaching. No
              such thing.""" Those who do that separate themselves from Christ and
              His
              body.""" """They become dead members of the body of Christ."""-
              Fr.John Corapi

              --- In catholicquestions@ yahoogroups. com, "Ken H." <khawn@...> wrote:
              >
              > And what percentage of Roman Catholics are practicing birth control?
              >
              > Ken
              >
              > Keith <jkland06@.. .> wrote: "There
              is no such thing as being a good Catholic and being disobedient
              > to the Holy Father. There is no such thing as being a good
              Catholic and
              > being a dissident when it comes to faith and morals. There is no
              such
              > thing as dissent from authentic and authoritative Church teaching.
              No
              > such thing. Those who do that separate themselves from Christ and
              His
              > body. They become dead members of the body of Christ."-Fr. John
              Corapi
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------ --------- --------- ---
              > Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
              > Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
              >



              Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
              Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos.

            • Brian Atwood
              ... So, do you not believe that the Holy Spirit works through and guides the decisions of the Church? Does your understanding of Christ supersede the Advocate
              Message 6 of 13 , May 1, 2007
                On 5/1/07, signal to noise <signal_to_noise@...> wrote:
                > This is why I refer to myself as a bad Catholic: I cannot in good conscience
                > accept every decree that extends from Rome...not without considering it from
                > my own understanding of Christ.

                So, do you not believe that the Holy Spirit works through and guides
                the decisions of the Church? Does your understanding of Christ
                supersede the Advocate of Truth?
              • signal to noise
                So, what is the alternative to being a Good Catholic? A bad one, like me... _________________________________________________________________ Don’t quit
                Message 7 of 13 , May 1, 2007
                  So, what is the alternative to being a "Good Catholic?"

                  A bad one, like me...

                  _________________________________________________________________
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                • signal to noise
                  So, do you not believe that the Holy Spirit works through and guides the decisions of the Church? Does your understanding of Christ supersede the Advocate of
                  Message 8 of 13 , May 1, 2007
                    So, do you not believe that the Holy Spirit works through and guides
                    the decisions of the Church? Does your understanding of Christ
                    supersede the Advocate of Truth?

                    -----

                    I believe the Holy Spirit, God, Christ can work through and guide any one of
                    us. I don't argue the Pope is moved by God (I believe he is, in most
                    things)...I simply believe God can move through any of us. I believe God can
                    inform any conscience, not just the elect.

                    He can work through the Catholic Pope, and the communistic atheist if He
                    chooses.

                    He is God. I am His creature.

                    To believe otherwise limits God.

                    Again: he gave two great commandments, the summation of all that came
                    before:

                    Love God with your whole mind, soul, and heart.
                    Love the other as you do yourself.

                    Everything that is Christianity is there in those two lines.

                    Everything that is the Catholic Church is there, as well as in every strain
                    of Protestantism.

                    The Catechism in all its overabundance is a dissection of, and a attempt at
                    explaining, these two commandments. Fine and well, fine and well...

                    As institution, Catholicism is a wonderful instrument for God.

                    But to claim Mother Church is the only one holding the keys to salvation,
                    and the Pope and his ministers the only holders of the way, is -- to me --
                    an affront to the Life described in the Gospels.

                    Christ builds a cathedral in my soul, not the Pope.

                    Christ teaches us how to pray, how to celebrate him, how to return to him.

                    The Church -- as instrument -- is marvelous, but it is not a substitute for
                    God.

                    _________________________________________________________________
                    Download Messenger. Join the i�m Initiative. Help make a difference today.
                    http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=TAGHM_APR07
                  • bridget alabi
                    I dont understand why u disagree. He says one cant be a good catholic if one is not in agreement with the Church s teaching. You urself have agreed tht u r a
                    Message 9 of 13 , May 1, 2007
                      I dont understand why u disagree. He says one cant be a good catholic if one is not in agreement with the Church's teaching. You urself have agreed tht u r a bad Catholic for the same reason. U are both saying the same thing.

                      ----- Original Message ----
                      From: signal to noise <signal_to_noise@...>
                      To: catholicquestions@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Tuesday, 1 May, 2007 4:14:42 PM
                      Subject: RE: Catholic Questions Quote from Fr.Corapi

                      "There is no such thing as being a good Catholic and being disobedient
                      to the Holy Father. There is no such thing as being a good Catholic and
                      being a dissident when it comes to faith and morals. There is no such
                      thing as dissent from authentic and authoritative Church teaching. No
                      such thing. Those who do that separate themselves from Christ and His
                      body. They become dead members of the body of Christ."-Fr.John Corapi

                      -----

                      Oh boy. I disagree. Kierkegaard disagreed. I think even Walker Percy -- a
                      catholic in good standing -- would have disagreed. I think the Anglican C.
                      S. Lewis would have disagreed.

                      This is why I refer to myself as a bad Catholic: I cannot in good conscience
                      accept every decree that extends from Rome...not without considering it from
                      my own understanding of Christ.

                      Yes, what I'm essentially saying is I don't accept, without question, the
                      infallibility of the papacy.

                      I spoke about this in another forum: there is Christ, then there is his
                      Church, lastly there is the institution serving the Church. I view the Pope
                      as the head of the institution.

                      Only Christ heads the church...no other.

                      I should point out here -- because some (if they had the power) would
                      excommunicate me on the spot -- I attend Mass, follow the prescriptions of
                      Christianity, but I don't take the sacraments. To my mind, to do so when I
                      fall so clearly outside the the conventions of the institution, would be at
                      the least disrespectful.

                      Where the Church falls down, to my mind, is allowing the institution that
                      services it to call the shots.

                      When did the Bible, the New Testament, the Gospels become an instrument for
                      the institution? It should be the other way around.

                      The Protestant strains are no better, generating their own hierarchies and
                      doctrines.

                      Christianity is supposed to be about an unmediated relationship between
                      Christ and the individual. It should be private, subjective (not relative),
                      and personal. The trappings should aid this, not prohibit, proscribe,
                      formalize, or make mandatory 'a' way.

                      There's 'the' way as established by Christ himself, and he summed it up in
                      the two great commandments:

                      Love God with your whole heart, mind, and soul.
                      Love the other as you love yourself.

                      Seems simple...it's not.

                      So, why do I sit my dissident self in mass On Sundays? Well, I grew up with
                      Catholicism, in a Catholic community, with a Catholic culture. I know
                      Catholicism, whereas the Methodists, Lutherans, Episcopalians and so on
                      always seemed 'off' to me. So, in part, my being a (bad) Catholic is simple
                      familiarity and ease. I stand aligned with the Church on the essentials;
                      stand, if not opposed then at least apart, from the institution in matters
                      of human generated dogma, and -- most important -- I'm on my knees before
                      Christ working to be submissive to his will.

                      I am far from being successful in that last item.

                      So: who wants to rip me an new one?

                      _________________________________________________________________
                      Download Messenger. Join the i知 Initiative. Help make a difference today.
                      http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=TAGHM_APR07




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                    • RCGirlAgain@aol.com
                      In a message dated 5/1/2007 11:16:48 A.M. Central Daylight Time, khawn@yahoo.com writes: And what percentage of Roman Catholics are practicing birth control?
                      Message 10 of 13 , May 1, 2007
                        In a message dated 5/1/2007 11:16:48 A.M. Central Daylight Time, khawn@... writes:

                        And what percentage of Roman Catholics are practicing birth control?

                        Ken

                        Zero.
                         
                        Do you mean, perhaps, "what percentage of people who self-identify as Roman Catholics"?




                        See what's free at AOL.com.
                      • signal to noise
                        I dont understand why u disagree. He says one cant be a good catholic if one is not in agreement with the Church s teaching. You urself have agreed tht u r a
                        Message 11 of 13 , May 2, 2007
                          I dont understand why u disagree. He says one cant be a good catholic if one
                          is not in agreement with the Church's teaching. You urself have agreed tht u
                          r a bad Catholic for the same reason. U are both saying the same thing.

                          -----

                          You're right, of course.

                          Just being prideful. Forgive me.

                          _________________________________________________________________
                          Get a FREE Web site, company branded e-mail and more from Microsoft Office
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                        • Brian Atwood
                          But it s God s Word that gives the Church legislative power and places it in the authoritative hierarchy second only to God himself.
                          Message 12 of 13 , May 3, 2007
                            But it's God's Word that gives the Church legislative power and places
                            it in the authoritative hierarchy second only to God himself.

                            On 5/1/07, signal to noise <signal_to_noise@...> wrote:
                            > So, do you not believe that the Holy Spirit works through and guides
                            > the decisions of the Church? Does your understanding of Christ
                            > supersede the Advocate of Truth?
                            >
                            > -----
                            >
                            > I believe the Holy Spirit, God, Christ can work through and guide any one of
                            > us. I don't argue the Pope is moved by God (I believe he is, in most
                            > things)...I simply believe God can move through any of us. I believe God can
                            > inform any conscience, not just the elect.
                            >
                            > He can work through the Catholic Pope, and the communistic atheist if He
                            > chooses.
                            >
                            > He is God. I am His creature.
                            >
                            > To believe otherwise limits God.
                            >
                            > Again: he gave two great commandments, the summation of all that came
                            > before:
                            >
                            > Love God with your whole mind, soul, and heart.
                            > Love the other as you do yourself.
                            >
                            > Everything that is Christianity is there in those two lines.
                            >
                            > Everything that is the Catholic Church is there, as well as in every strain
                            > of Protestantism.
                            >
                            > The Catechism in all its overabundance is a dissection of, and a attempt at
                            > explaining, these two commandments. Fine and well, fine and well...
                            >
                            > As institution, Catholicism is a wonderful instrument for God.
                            >
                            > But to claim Mother Church is the only one holding the keys to salvation,
                            > and the Pope and his ministers the only holders of the way, is -- to me --
                            > an affront to the Life described in the Gospels.
                            >
                            > Christ builds a cathedral in my soul, not the Pope.
                            >
                            > Christ teaches us how to pray, how to celebrate him, how to return to him.
                            >
                            > The Church -- as instrument -- is marvelous, but it is not a substitute for
                            > God.
                            >
                            > _________________________________________________________________
                            > Download Messenger. Join the i'm Initiative. Help make a difference today.
                            > http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=TAGHM_APR07
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                          • Keith
                            Who said God cant work with anyone..sure he can,the point is if OUR CONSCIENCE is telling us to believe something contrary to what GOD HIMSELF has placed in
                            Message 13 of 13 , May 3, 2007
                              Who said God cant work with anyone..sure he can,the point is if OUR
                              CONSCIENCE is telling us to believe something contrary to what GOD
                              HIMSELF has placed in HIS CHURCH concerning official doctrine of
                              faith,like for instance the Church teaches against
                              homosexuality,murder of all kinds,etc,and we believe God is leading
                              us to believe its okay then our conscience is misleading us.

                              Peace and God Bless!
                              Keith

                              --- In catholicquestions@yahoogroups.com, "signal to noise"
                              <signal_to_noise@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > So, do you not believe that the Holy Spirit works through and guides
                              > the decisions of the Church? Does your understanding of Christ
                              > supersede the Advocate of Truth?
                              >
                              > -----
                              >
                              > I believe the Holy Spirit, God, Christ can work through and guide
                              any one of
                              > us. I don't argue the Pope is moved by God (I believe he is, in
                              most
                              > things)...I simply believe God can move through any of us. I
                              believe God can
                              > inform any conscience, not just the elect.
                              >
                              > He can work through the Catholic Pope, and the communistic atheist
                              if He
                              > chooses.
                              >
                              > He is God. I am His creature.
                              >
                              > To believe otherwise limits God.
                              >
                              > Again: he gave two great commandments, the summation of all that
                              came
                              > before:
                              >
                              > Love God with your whole mind, soul, and heart.
                              > Love the other as you do yourself.
                              >
                              > Everything that is Christianity is there in those two lines.
                              >
                              > Everything that is the Catholic Church is there, as well as in
                              every strain
                              > of Protestantism.
                              >
                              > The Catechism in all its overabundance is a dissection of, and a
                              attempt at
                              > explaining, these two commandments. Fine and well, fine and well...
                              >
                              > As institution, Catholicism is a wonderful instrument for God.
                              >
                              > But to claim Mother Church is the only one holding the keys to
                              salvation,
                              > and the Pope and his ministers the only holders of the way, is --
                              to me --
                              > an affront to the Life described in the Gospels.
                              >
                              > Christ builds a cathedral in my soul, not the Pope.
                              >
                              > Christ teaches us how to pray, how to celebrate him, how to return
                              to him.
                              >
                              > The Church -- as instrument -- is marvelous, but it is not a
                              substitute for
                              > God.
                              >
                              > _________________________________________________________________
                              > Download Messenger. Join the i'm Initiative. Help make a difference
                              today.
                              > http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=TAGHM_APR07
                              >
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