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The True State of Man ( was: Re: Abortion, Birth Control, & Sex for Pleasure)

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  • Ash
    Dave, you referred to my beliefs as new age bull that s insulting even if you didn t think it so. Why am I here, not to fall out with folk or change their
    Message 1 of 131 , Nov 30, 2006
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      Dave, you referred to my beliefs as "new age bull" that's insulting
      even if you didn't think it so.

      Why am I here, not to fall out with folk or change their minds on
      what they believe? I'm here to share my ideas about God and question
      my old religion in case there is something I can learn about it
      from people who still believe. Why are you here, to sit with like
      minded people? In that case you are better off not reading me
      anyways.

      I'm not sure whether you are aware that you sound annoyed about my
      faith being different from yours or with my being here, but as a
      newbie I have to tell you that you do.

      Sorry if I pissed you off, and as for my idea that we are all of
      God, go ask a priest. It is what I was taught about God in my
      Catholic education--that God was everything. If you wish to live
      outside of his truth, that's up to you.


      Ash



      ++++++++++++++++++
      --- In catholicquestions@yahoogroups.com, spirit77hope
      <no_reply@...> wrote:
      >
      > Where did I condemn you? I said..."no offense". Never mind. I
      see
      > no point in reading your messages anymore anyway. You will not
      > convice me that WE are God and I will not convicnce you the the
      > Catholic faith is the Truth so I wonder why you can here. I
      > apoligize but I will not engage you anymore either.
      >
      >
      > --- In catholicquestions@yahoogroups.com, "Ash"
      > <quicksilverspiel@> wrote:
      > >
      > > spirit77hope, I did not insult you or your faith..
      > >
      > > why do you insult me and mine?
      > >
      > > I did call myself a failed Catholic, and have tried to explain
      > why.
      > > I was sharing something with you, I meant for it to help you to
      > > understand me better..in a sense I was giving you a gift, a
      > glimpse
      > > into my personal life. Now why would you condemn me for that?
      > >
      > > See, this is my problem with your religion, too many Catholics
      in
      > my
      > > experiences think of themselves as God's chosen people and the
      > rest
      > > of us worthless. <sigh>
      > >
      > > So far you are the first to be rude to me here.
      > >
      > > Ash
      > >
      > >
      > > +++++++++++++++
      > > --- In catholicquestions@yahoogroups.com, spirit77hope
      > > <no_reply@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > No offense there Ash but WE are not God. God is God. I am
      > > guessing
      > > > that is why you are a "failed Catholic". You don't even
      really
      > > > believe in God. You believe in yourself. Your entire post
      just
      > > > sounds like so much new age bull, to put it mildly. Sorry.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > --- In catholicquestions@yahoogroups.com, "Ash"
      > > > <quicksilverspiel@> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > spirit77hope <no_reply@> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > << So, you have no Faith in a higher power? It is all about
      > > you?
      > > > > Just asking.>>
      > > > >
      > > > > No and yes, ultimately there is no higher authority for us
      in
      > > > > anything but our own. We are completely autonomous and that
      is
      > > > what
      > > > > it means to own your life and own soul. Everything is a
      choice
      > > for
      > > > > us, being born, how we live and what happens after we die.
      We
      > > are
      > > > > not servitude to anything, not even God because we are God,
      > just
      > > a
      > > > > distinct and individual expression of it because God is a
      > state
      > > of
      > > > > grace and being in its perfect form and as such a truth that
      > > > cannot
      > > > > ever be diminished or lost. It is absolute as too our
      > > relationship
      > > > > with God.
      > > > >
      > > > > This would be more difficult to explain if I weren't talking
      > to
      > > > > Catholics because you understand the concept of individual
      > > > existence
      > > > > within the one. God to you is God the father, God the son
      and
      > > God
      > > > > the Holy Ghost. The trinity all equal and true expressions
      of
      > > the
      > > > > one truth. I believe we are all the same type of reality we
      > have
      > > > our
      > > > > physical lives and bodies, as weak and imperfect as physical
      > > life
      > > > is
      > > > > that contain our egos and limited sense of awareness. We
      then
      > > have
      > > > > our souls, our spiritual reflection of this, and it too is
      > > > > incomplete searching for resolution with God's truest
      > expression
      > > > and
      > > > > perfect spiritual grace. And then there are our truer,
      truest
      > > and
      > > > > higher selves, our perfect and eternal connection to God as
      > part
      > > > of
      > > > > his eternal substance and reality. As God is so too is this
      > part
      > > > of
      > > > > us, which cannot ever be imperfect, reduced or lost.
      > > > >
      > > > > Our Higher selves is where our truth really sits and where
      all
      > > our
      > > > > answers come from, this is where we *know* God because we
      > *are*
      > > > God
      > > > > existing with and as a distinct expression of him, as
      > ourselves.
      > > > > However despite this higher truth we are also human, thus
      > > > imperfect
      > > > > and the spiritual paradox is that perfection cannot be known
      > by
      > > > > imperfection or the vastness of eternal truth understood
      > within
      > > > the
      > > > > limits of individual perception, and so we have our souls.
      The
      > > > > spiritual way in which the sublime of our higher selves can
      > > exist
      > > > > within imperfect bodies and within imperfect limits and
      still
      > be
      > > > > part of the most perfect of all powers, truths and
      > authorities,
      > > > > God, the ultimate truth of us and everything.
      > > > >
      > > > > I believe we are as Christ, God made man, and that this was
      > > always
      > > > > our choice, I assume so the perfection can know the
      imperfect
      > > form
      > > > > and the experience of individual existence. So you see
      there
      > is
      > > > no
      > > > > higher authority over us for we are of God. Ultimately we
      can
      > do
      > > > > nothing wrong for everything we do is our will, God's will.
      > Our
      > > > > lives are exactly the way we intend and foresee it, as
      > difficult
      > > > as
      > > > > it is for our imperfect egos to understand. And life hurts,
      to
      > > be
      > > > > this way and to become individual and distinct of our true
      > > > > expression and completion with God is to know spiritual
      pain.
      > > And
      > > > > that's why our souls forever seek spiritual resolution, back
      > to
      > > > the
      > > > > perfect state.
      > > > >
      > > > > So you see why I don't believe in sin. Sin would necessitate
      > the
      > > > > presumption of God's weakness of a power greater than God's
      > > will.
      > > > It
      > > > > would mean we were not in control of our choices and thus
      not
      > > > truly
      > > > > responsible for our souls and spiritual welfare. To have
      free
      > > will
      > > > > secures this. And as sin is the definition of acting
      contrary
      > to
      > > > > God's will it means that even when we do wrong it is a
      > > legitimate
      > > > > choice for us to make and so even this cannot get in the way
      > of
      > > us
      > > > > being part of God.
      > > > >
      > > > > The spiritual pain of our lesser choices would come from
      > denying
      > > > our
      > > > > higher expressions and reducing ourselves to the weakness of
      > our
      > > > > baser self, which the contradiction to God's spiritual
      grace.
      > > The
      > > > > further away from it we grow the more pain we know. And this
      > > > > spiritual choice is why even within the imperfect expression
      > of
      > > > our
      > > > > existence we still have the absolute and final say over what
      > > this
      > > > > means to us.
      > > > >
      > > > > Why don't we always know this in a conscious sense, because
      of
      > > the
      > > > > nature of this reality and its particular limits? We'd have
      to
      > > go
      > > > to
      > > > > our perfect selves to envision the higher truths, which is
      > what
      > > I
      > > > > believe we do every time we seek God's grace, and there is
      > where
      > > > > we'd know this certainty and be at peace with him.
      > > > >
      > > > > When we deny our own authority I believe we offend the truth
      > of
      > > > God
      > > > > and the truth of our higher selves. This is why standing
      tall
      > > and
      > > > > being brave is so right. This is why fear and doubt are
      > > > > contradictions to spiritual fulfilment and why such things
      > > > actually
      > > > > get in the way of reconciling with God. We can't be with God
      > > > through
      > > > > self-depreciation or doubt because we can't reconcile our
      > > > spiritual
      > > > > imperfection with its perfection as long as we continue to
      > > confirm
      > > > > its spiritual negativity with the idea of our innate
      spiritual
      > > > > ineptitude, servitude and weakness. And for as long as we do
      > > this
      > > > is
      > > > > for as long as we will hurt.
      > > > >
      > > > > Christ said it true and kept things simple, only through
      love
      > > can
      > > > we
      > > > > know God, through the love of God to the love of ourselves
      and
      > > our
      > > > > brother. That is because God is ultimately the perfect
      > > expression
      > > > of
      > > > > love. Not of judgment, not of scorn or impatience or even
      > > > > disappointment. God can never be such empty weak-assed
      things.
      > > And
      > > > > that is why I get so frustrated when people refuse to accept
      > > their
      > > > > responsibility for their own spiritual magnificence and
      > > > > responsibility to it.
      > > > >
      > > > > Ash
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > +++++++++++++++
      > > > > --- In catholicquestions@yahoogroups.com, spirit77hope
      > > > > <no_reply@> wrote:
      > > > > >
      > > > > > So, you have no Faith in a higher power? It is all about
      > > you?
      > > > > Just
      > > > > > asking.
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > > --- In catholicquestions@yahoogroups.com, "Ash"
      > > > > > <quicksilverspiel@> wrote:
      > > > > > > << Are you all about moral relativism? >>
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > I don't see how we can be anything different. If the
      truth
      > > is
      > > > > > > something we do not recognise for ourselves how can we
      > know
      > > > it,
      > > > > > > trust it or it have mean in personal terms? And what of
      > free
      > > > > will
      > > > > > > and spiritual accountability, if moral truth or God are
      in
      > > > deed
      > > > > > > truths that exist outside of our existence, even so are
      > not
      > > > such
      > > > > > > truth still something we have to discover for ourselves
      > and
      > > > thus
      > > > > > > open to our personal interpretation, and such truth
      > becomes
      > > > the
      > > > > > > truth of ourselves and what we are and become? The truth
      > is
      > > > > always
      > > > > > > our own idea of it just as God always the product of our
      > > > faith,
      > > > > > > because the only way in which we can ever know anything
      is
      > > by
      > > > > way
      > > > > > of
      > > > > > > our individual awareness of it, no? And so relativism is
      a
      > > > self-
      > > > > > > fulfilling reality.
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Ash
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > ++++++++++++++++++
      > > > > > > --- In catholicquestions@yahoogroups.com, bserbu@ wrote:
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > In a message dated 11/28/2006 12:54:41 A.M. Eastern
      > > Standard
      > > > > > > Time,
      > > > > > > > quicksilverspiel@ writes:
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > I don't think sex, sin or even human nature
      > > > > > > > wrong or shameful.
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > Wait a minute here....... you don't think sin is
      > wrong???
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > You're going to have to explain that one for me. Are
      > you
      > > > all
      > > > > > > about moral
      > > > > > > > relativism?
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >
    • Kudamah
      Brian thanks for that insight but unfortunately that is an interpretation that could be considered. I m dealing with the litteral meaning of the word Ze rah-
      Message 131 of 131 , Dec 7, 2006
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        Brian thanks for that insight but unfortunately that is an
        interpretation that could be considered. I'm dealing with the litteral
        meaning of the word Ze'rah- Biological offspring. In Mary's case this
        would be Jesus/ Y'shua. This quote you used ties in with Gen. 3:15
        because this is what God said would happen.



        --- In catholicquestions@yahoogroups.com, "Brian Atwood"
        <specimenb@...> wrote:
        >
        > We can see from scripture that offspring does not have to be biological
        > offspring. In Revelations 12, the offspring of Mary is the Church.
        >
        > (Revelations 12:17) Then the dragon became angry with the woman and
        went off
        > to wage war against the rest of her offspring, those who keep God's
        > commandments and bear witness to Jesus.
        >
        > The offspring referred to in Genesis 3 are to the woman, Jesus
        Christ, and
        > to the devil, the followers of evil.
        >
        > On 12/6/06, Kudamah <rizqian99@...> wrote:
        > >
        > > "Jennifer" wrote:
        > > > pure in this sense meaning entirely spiritual, not corporeal at all.
        > >
        > > Thank u Jennifer. I view the devil as being of impure light from his
        > > regression but not totally spiritual based on the scripture Gen. 3:15,
        > > where God said "i will put emnity between your seed/ offspring
        > > (Ze'rahin Hebrew meaning 'offspring') and the woman's seed (Ze'rah).
        > >
        > > I have no record of any spirit having an offsring, cause it is
        > > basically impossible and this is a physical act.
        > >
        > > Kudamah
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
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