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The ETERNAL nature of Jesus' sacrifice is in the Christian Mass

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  • the_saints_are_catholic
    Hi Briget, very nice response I would simply add the eternal nature of Jesus sacrifice is in the Christian Mass! The difference between us, Catholic and
    Message 1 of 95 , Jun 30, 2006
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      Hi Briget,

      very nice response I would simply add the eternal nature of Jesus'
      sacrifice is in the Christian Mass!

      The difference between us, Catholic and non-Catholic is simply thus;
      Catholic worship celebrates the eternal nature of Christ's sacrifice
      which a non-catholic would readily claim covers our sins in the here
      and now.

      So if you believe as a Christian the sacrifice is eternal for all
      sins pray tell why is the nature not also eternal? The smug replies
      by afew who post with such words as re-sacrifice and re-crucify etc
      need to step outside of their anti-catholic box and apply some grey

      Think First my non-catholic brethren

      --- In catholicquestions@yahoogroups.com, bridget alabi
      <phina081@...> wrote:
      > We are not crucifying Christ again. Nor do we say that His
      sacrifice is not complete. We are re-offering it. They are two
      different things. Think about it and you will understand it.
      > The Holy Eucharist was instituted at the Last Supper and is a
      sacramental expression of the Paschal Mystery i.e. The Crucifixion,
      death and ressurection of Christ. You will remember that when He
      broke the bread, He said' This is my Body which will be given up for
      you'. And the cup, ' This is the cup of my Blood, the Blood of the
      new and everlasting Covenant which will be shed for you and for all
      > I am saying all this to show the connection between the Last
      Supper and the Passion. And also the reason why we re-offer Christ's
      sacrifice. It was what Christ wanted, and he commanded us to do so.
      The Mass is centred around the celebration of the Holy Eucharist
      which is the fulfillment of Christ command at the Last Supper. I know
      i have not explained this succinctly like a theologian but i hope you
      can see where i coming from.
      > To summarise, we are not saying that Christ's passion was not
      complete, it was very complete. We are only re-offering that same
      sacrifice to God. We do that at the Holy Mass which is centred around
      the Holy Eucharist. The celebration of the Holy Eucharist fulfills
      Christ's command to 'do this in rememberance of me'.
      > yazzix <yazzix@...> wrote:
      > ---------------------------------
      > From: catholicquestions@yahoogroups.com
      [mailto:catholicquestions@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bridget alabi
      > Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 12:29 PM
      > To: catholicquestions@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: Re: Catholic Questions Re: Prayer that will allow 1,000
      souls to escape purgatory
      > You have to remember that Jesus' death on Calvary was a
      form of sacrifice to God for the redemption of souls. At Mass, what
      the Priest does is to re- offer that sacrifice in the name of Christ.
      > Yazzix to Bridget – that is where the problem starts.. This is
      what Paul warned against and pronounced a curse on.
      > The sacrifice by Jesus was done once and for all at the cross.
      That is the foundation of Christianity.
      > Titus 3: 4 But then God our Savior showed us his kindness and
      love. 5 He saved us, not because of the good things we did, but
      because of his mercy. He washed away our sins and gave us a new life
      through the Holy Spirit. 6 He generously poured out the Spirit upon
      us because of what Jesus Christ our Savior did. 7 He declared us not
      guilty because of his great kindness. And now we know that we will
      inherit eternal life.
      > Yazzix
      > But dont forget also that we are also a ' holy race, a royal
      priesthood...' We participate in this offering by uniting ourselves
      to Christ. That is why the priest says at Mass 'Pray brethren, that
      our sacrifice may be acceptable to God, the almighty Father'. We
      offer Christ's sacrifice over and over again. And the redemption of
      souls whether those in Purgatory or on earth was the reason for
      Christ's Passion in the first place.
      > All the Masses all over the world is a continuation of Christ'
      s sacrifice. And as Catholics, we share the communion of Saints. We
      have a share in every Mass that is going on all over the world even
      if we are not physically present. At each Mass, all the members of
      the Church is prayed for and we can always unite ourselves to these
      Masses. Each Mass transcends time and space, after all, Christ's
      sacrifice took place in Jerusalem over 2000 years ago It is a great
      gift but we have to know we have to benefit from it. That is why we
      can offer all the Masses all over the world for any intention
      including the salvation of souls in Purgatory.
      > The Souls in Purgatory are holy because they are in the state
      of grace. The only reason why they are not in Heaven is that they are
      guilty of venial sins or they have not repaid the debt they owe God.
      By debt, I mean reparation for sins. Even after we have been
      forgiven, we have to make reparation for our sins. This may come in
      form of penance, indulgences, prayers, good works etc. Venial sins do
      not remove God's grace and presence from us, only mortal sins do.
      However, nothing unclean shall enter Heaven. That is the explanation
      for Purgatory and the souls there are holy but not perfect.
      > The reason why we pray for the souls in Purgatory is that our
      prayers can reduce the period of time they spend there. I do not know
      how time works there but i suppose its just like here on earth. The
      higher the number of people who pray for an intention, the better.
      Thats why we ask people to pray for us. The souls in Purgatory will
      get to Heaven whether we pray for them or not but it will be a lot
      easier and effective if we join them. This is possible because of the
      Communion of Saints we share.
      > I should think that sinners everywhere encompasses those in
      your home, in the Church and really everywhere!
      > You dont have to believe this revelation if you want. We are
      not obliged to accept private revelations. It does not make you a bad
      > in52330 <in52330@...> wrote:
      > This is a brief little prayer, and I would love to spend
      > all my time in saying this prayer, if that would save
      > souls - even 1 against the promised 1000.
      > However, I am very particular that my prayer to my Father
      > must be consistent and meaningful. I have some doubts.
      > Please be kind to clarify.
      > 1. Jesus has shed his precious blood as a ransom for the
      > redemption of the mankind from the dominion of the sin.
      > How can I once again offer the same blood to the Father for
      > some other purpose? It is the blood of Jesus; Not mine;
      > On what authority do I offer HIS blood to the father?
      > Can I offer your blood to someone according to my choice?
      > 2. How can I claim unity with the masses said throughout
      > the world when I know that these masses are already said
      > for a specific intention,and mostly they are paid for, by
      > someone and in all sincerity, i have no part or claim
      > whatsoever in them?
      > 3. If the souls in the purgatory are "Holy", why are they
      > there in the first place? Is God waiting for someone to grease his
      > palms through this kind of gratification to release them from the
      > purgatory?
      > 4. Does not the sinners "everywhere" encompass those in
      > my home and in the universal church etc?
      > 5. The universal church of God comprises children of God,
      > it is not made up of sinners.
      > I really suspect very much this claim that Jesus gave
      > this inconsistent prayer to the saint.
      > --- In catholicquestions@yahoogroups.com, "Phil" <cardiopr@> wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > > Our Lord said to Saint Gertrude and each time this prayer is said
      > > 1,000 souls from purgatory is released. This prayer is important
      > > me since one day I might be there and the souls you release will
      > > intercede for on your behalf before Christ. There is a website
      > > is promoting people to say this prayer everyday to empty
      > > and I hope all of you will join me in this effort. The website is
      > > http://www.mtep.com and it tells you more about St. Gertrude and
      > > this prayer to the souls in purgatory.
      > >
      > >
      > > Eternal Father I offer Thee, the most precious blood of they
      > > Son, Jesus, in union with the Masses said throughout the world
      > > today, for al the holy souls in purgatory, for sinners
      > > for sinners in the universal church, those in my own home, and
      > > within my family. Amen.
      > >
      > ---------------------------------
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    • Ted Michael Morgan
      Your correction helps. Thank you. Indifference is the deadly enemy.
      Message 95 of 95 , Jul 11, 2006
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        Your correction helps. Thank you. Indifference is the deadly enemy.   

        --- In catholicquestions@yahoogroups.com, the_spacemouse <no_reply@...> wrote:
        > Ooops. I wrote:
        > > There is a danger of ecumenism leading to nominalism, or even to
        > > relativism,
        > I meant "minimalism," not nominalism. And I think by relativism,
        > what I'm really getting at is "indifference": the (false) belief
        > that doctrinal disagreements don't matter at all. Ecumenism can be
        > truly mutual without necessarily leading to indifference.
        > --- In catholicquestions@yahoogroups.com, the_spacemouse
        > no_reply@ wrote:
        > >
        > > --- In catholicquestions@yahoogroups.com, the_saints_are_catholic
        > > <no_reply@> wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > >
        > > > The Catholic understanding on "ecumenism" is one of education
        > and
        > > > instruction. Catholic ecumenism seeks to correct the age old
        > > errors,
        > > > slanderous claims and accusations labelled upon the Church by
        > anti-
        > > > catholics or the ignorant who never had the opportunity of a
        > > truthful
        > > > education on Catholicism.
        > > >
        > >
        > > I'm sorry, but I have to disagree. This is an inadequate
        > definition
        > > of ecumenism, in that it is all one-sided. You make it sound as if
        > > Protestants are the only ones who have misconceptions, and as if
        > > Catholics have never spread slanders about other religious groups.
        > > This isn't true.
        > >
        > > I agree that ecumenism should not be about compromising vital
        > > doctrines, but I think it means more than simply Catholics
        > educating
        > > other Christians about the truth. I think that you must not have
        > > read very many ecumenical works, if that's your opinion, because
        > you
        > > seem to be confusing ecumenism with apologetics. (Of course, if
        > you
        > > are involved in ecumenism, feel free to share.) Apologetic
        > includes
        > > sharing the truth of the Catholic faith in a way that makes it
        > > understandable to people who had misconceptions about it.
        > >
        > > Ecumenism, however, is more than education. It is a two-way
        > dialogue
        > > in which both parties put their own concerns, their beliefs, and
        > > their
        > > definitions on the table. Then the groups together try to sort out
        > > where they agree and where they disagree. This may involve making
        > > clear distatements about disagreements, saying "We say this, but
        > WE
        > > say this, and we realize that we differ here. We see no way around
        > > this without compromising our principles." However, it often turns
        > > out that some beliefs really aren't as a far apart as they seemed.
        > > As Jimmy Akin (an apologist, not even an ecumenist!) points out in
        > > _The Salvation Controversy_, there are many differences between
        > > religious groups which come down to semantics. Catholics and
        > > Protestants speak a different language. We use the same words, but
        > > we mean different things. One way ecumenical dialogue can help,
        > > then, is in helping us to uncover what our words mean to us, to
        > our
        > > separated brethern. In theory (not necessarily in practice)
        > > ecumenical dialogue could help provide a new "dialect" that
        > > describes shared belief in ways amenable to both parties. This
        > kind
        > > of ecumenism, in other words, could involve
        > > actual compromise, but it is not compromise in the content of
        > > belief. Rather, it is compromise in the terms being used. The
        > > Lutheran- Catholic Joint Declaration on Justification is a good
        > > example of such dialogues.
        > >
        > > There is a danger of ecumenism leading to nominalism, or even to
        > > relativism, but it doesn't have to, especially where both parties
        > > are solidly committed to the truth. The real danger in ecumenism
        > > that I see is that "Joe Catholic" and "Joe Baptist" go about their
        > > daily lives attacking each other, blissfully unaware that their
        > > leaders are actually having an amicable conversation.
        > >
        > > In other words, the problem with ecumenism from a Catholic
        > > perspective is that most Catholics don't know anything about it.
        > It
        > > has unfortunately been associated with liberal Christianity, and
        > the
        > > work being done by serious, orthodox Christians goes unnoticed.
        > > Ecumenism today is a far cry from what it was in the '70s!
        > >
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