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Re: [casting] Re: respirators does any one use them?

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  • Rob de Bie
    A few years ago I looked into protection against isocyanates, and found that it generally not stopped by respirator cartridges. The positive air pressure masks
    Message 1 of 28 , Nov 26, 2012
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      A few years ago I looked into protection against isocyanates, and
      found that it generally not stopped by respirator cartridges. The
      positive air pressure masks of car painters then starts to make
      sense. It can also penetrate gloves.

      I wanted to mention this to avoid that PU resin casters think they
      are safe behind a respirator, while they are not. Now I hope I
      remembered it correctly!

      Rob

      At 21:28 23-11-2012, you wrote:
      >In the past I was a semiconductor engineer and worked with a variety
      >of dangerous chemicals and I whole heartedly agree with you. I think
      >too many people are exposed to dangerous chemicals without being
      >aware of how toxic they can be. I started this thread because I had
      >not seen or heard of anybody using protection when casting. In the
      >pictures on web sites, people are pouring resins on kitchen tables
      >with out any type of hood or respirator. I think I'm going to make a
      >small hood to use in my garage that is vented outside, and use a respirator.
      >
      >And on the safety of the chemicals, there is research on the
      >chemicals used in polyurethanes, and they are some of the most dangerous.
      >
      >Thanks for your reply!
      >
      >David
      >
      >--- In casting@yahoogroups.com, casting-owner@yahoogroups.com wrote:
      > >
      > > Hi David, I know you've had many responses to this question, but
      > here's my two cents.
      > >
      > > In my opinion, there has been far too little research done on the
      > effects of various chemicals on the human body to take a chance on
      > breathing any of them. Medical science is notorious for saying
      > something is safe, and then years later reversing their stance on it.
      > >
      > > So my policy is, if it's a chemical, I use a fume hood and a
      > mask. My fume hood is pretty powerful, so I sometimes skip the
      > mask for small resin pours. But overall I don't see any point in
      > risking my health for a hobby.
      > >
      > > The other thing is, that even something as innocuous as talcum
      > powder can be a serious health hazard. Recent studies have linked
      > the regular breathing of any kind of particulate matter (even dust)
      > to an increased risk of lung cancer. So why take a chance?
      > >
      > > Anyway, that's my advice to everyone in any hobby which uses
      > chemicals or powders, regardless of what's in them. Protect
      > yourself! By doing so, it is my hope that I will live long enough
      > to be a burden to my children. ;-)
      > >
      > > Pat Lawless
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In casting@yahoogroups.com, "DavidS" <booney_1@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > I was reading the MSDS docs on the Smooth-on website and I
      > realized that respirators were recommended for polyurethane resin casting.
      > > >
      > > > Two questions
      > > >
      > > > 1. Is there a general purpose resin that is safe enough that a
      > respirator is not required.
      > > >
      > > > 2. Recommendations on a respirator?
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > thanks
      > > > David
      > > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >------------------------------------
      >
      >Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
    • Evyn MacDude
      ... Ack!, ok, I have used mostly Polyester Resins that uses MEKP as a catalyst, which are different critters epoxy and polyurethane resins. Went out and read
      Message 2 of 28 , Nov 26, 2012
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        On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 8:37 AM, auto249243 <auto249243@...> wrote:

        >
        >
        > These resins are not volatile(they do not evaporate into the air). Other
        > than an over abundance of caution and lawsuit avoidance, I do not think
        > there is great deal to be concerned about. Of greater concern, especially
        > with epoxy and polyurethane(isocyanates)is sensitization from skin contact.
        >


        Ack!, ok, I have used mostly Polyester Resins that uses MEKP as a catalyst,
        which are different critters epoxy and polyurethane resins. Went out and
        read my materials log to be sure. Hint; keep a log of what you have and
        where is saves a lot of hassle if the Fire Inspector shows up.

        Anyways as I said read your 1.MSDS, 2. Learn the best practices for your
        Material, 3. Documentation.


        --
        Evyn


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Evyn MacDude
        On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 2:17 AM, Charles Anderson
        Message 3 of 28 , Nov 26, 2012
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          On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 2:17 AM, Charles Anderson <
          charlesanderson@...> wrote:

          > On 26/11/2012 03:37, auto249243 wrote:
          > >
          > > An open window and fan or oversize vented hood should be more than
          > enough, I would think.
          > In my early days of house renavation I poisoned myself with solvents,
          > and was very sick for three days :-( I learned my lesson, that opened
          > windows may not always be enough.


          My Uncle, Cousin-in-law and I learned lesson under a house installing a
          Hottub. Only have to do it once...
          --
          Evyn


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Kenny Anderson
          Yes, you remembered it correctly.   But regular Lacquer and acrylics are OK to use with a respirator. When you get into spraying polyurethane enamels then a
          Message 4 of 28 , Nov 27, 2012
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            Yes, you remembered it correctly.   But regular Lacquer and acrylics are OK to use with a respirator. When you get into spraying polyurethane enamels then a fresh air setup is the way to go. A charcoal respirator will not protect you from the icoyanates. ( I hope I spelled that right) But pouring resin isn't the same as spraying urethane paint thru a spraygun so there's nothing to protect you from anyway. I've done all of the above. I worked as an automotive bodyman/painter for many years before becoming a resin caster.
            Kenny. 
             
             

             

            Have You Driven or Built a FORD...Lately ???
            I Have.!!!   Everyday !!!
             
             
            Always Looking for & Buying any FoMoCo 1/25th scale Model kits and Promo Collections from the 60's, 70's  and 80's,  also any Ford and/or Motorcraft Memorabilia Too,
            Mail or Email me your list !!!

            Kenny Anderson
            Oak Lawn, IL.60453

             
             OPEN, OPEN, OPEN !!!  Blue Oval ResinWorks , featuring 1/25th scale 1961-87 Ford Pickups(crewcabs),  68-72 Ford Galaxie 500 XL & LTD conv.,   75-78 LTD 4 dr. Landau,  88-91 LTD Crown Victoria Police Cruiser,   67 & 68-69 Rancheros, Ford LN-8000 CrewCab & an LTL-9000  semi & many Ford Pickup Cabs, Beds, 4x4 Parts & Accessories.....plus a lot more never produced Fords coming in the near future.  All items in 1/25th scale.  Check it out now at;
             http://www.blue-oval-resinworks.com
             
             

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • auto249243
            A charcoal respirator will not protect you from the icoyanates. It s isocyanates. I am going to have to disagree. A charcoal respirator is accepted in
            Message 5 of 28 , Dec 2, 2012
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              "A charcoal respirator will not protect you from the icoyanates."
              It's isocyanates.
              I am going to have to disagree. A charcoal respirator is accepted in industrial safety practice (by OSHA) for intermittent low level exposure (like laboratory work)to isocyanates. We are talking about half mask with replaceable cartridges here. One should also note that charcoal cartridges are only rated to a total of 8 hours of accumulated use maximum, and must be kept in a sealed container when not in use. I would always use one for spraying any type of paint. For factory floor multi-hour shift work, a fresh air mask is generally required.
            • Kenny Anderson
              If you look into icocyanates in paint such as Dupont Imron you will find that there is no proof that a respirator actually works 100%. Yes they do say it s OK
              Message 6 of 28 , Dec 3, 2012
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                If you look into icocyanates in paint such as Dupont Imron you will find that there is no proof that a respirator actually works 100%. Yes they do say it's OK on a short term basis and that the filter cartridges are supposedly good for 8 hours and thats it but they have no idea of any long term usage and I'm talking about years here not 8 hours a day. 
                     Here's an excerpt from an article on a webpage I found on Icocyanates in polyurethane resin.
                 
                .
                DATA SHEET
                URETHANE RESIN SYSTEMS
                Monona Rossol, Health and Safety Director
                United Scenic Artists, Local USA 829, IATSE
                181 Thompson St., # 23
                New York, NY 10012-2586
                212-777-0062
                E-mail: ACTSNYC@...
                © October 10, 1995 (revised 6/8/07, 7-31-09)
                STRAIGHT TALK ABOUT URETHANE FOAM AND CASTING RESINS
                 


                 
                In the art and theater world, air-purifying respirators almost never can be used safely or legally
                as protection against products which release diisocyanates. Shops must either have a local
                ventilation system (e.g. a spray booth) that air sampling tests show completely capture the
                diisocyanates, or employers should provide air-supplied full-face respirators with protective
                clothing for the skin for workers using significant amounts of two-component urethane. For the
                full OSHA policy, see the July 18, 2000 letter of interpretation at www.osha.gov.
                 
                But there are some urethane systems that only appear to be a single component product. For
                example, Great StuffTM looks like a single product, but the two components are mixed in the long
                nozzle. So any time you purchase a urethane product, read the label and Material Safety Data
                Sheet (MSDS) carefully. If the label or MSDS indicates that the substance releases
                diisocyanates, is it highly hazardous.
                IF THEY’RE SO BAD, WHY AIN’T I DEAD?
                Not everyone exposed to isocyanates becomes seriously ill, just as not everyone is allergic to
                poison ivy. Although the isocyanates are irritating to all people at high levels, the allergic effects
                can manifest themselves at very low levels in only some people.
                  
                I still haven't found any actual proof that pouring resin in my basement shop is presenting anything dangerous, but there's no proof that it isn't either. So with all this information, I'm nowhere closer to finding an answer than I was before.
                Kenny./Blue Oval ResinWorks.
                 

                 

                Have You Driven or Built a FORD...Lately ???
                I Have.!!!   Everyday !!!
                 
                 
                Always Looking for & Buying any FoMoCo 1/25th scale Model kits and Promo Collections from the 60's, 70's  and 80's,  also any Ford and/or Motorcraft Memorabilia Too,
                Mail or Email me your list !!!

                Kenny Anderson
                Oak Lawn, IL.60453

                 
                 OPEN, OPEN, OPEN !!!  Blue Oval ResinWorks , featuring 1/25th scale 1961-87 Ford Pickups(crewcabs),  68-72 Ford Galaxie 500 XL & LTD conv.,   75-78 LTD 4 dr. Landau,  88-91 LTD Crown Victoria Police Cruiser,   67 & 68-69 Rancheros, Ford LN-8000 CrewCab & an LTL-9000  semi & many Ford Pickup Cabs, Beds, 4x4 Parts & Accessories.....plus a lot more never produced Fords coming in the near future.  All items in 1/25th scale.  Check it out now at;
                 http://www.blue-oval-resinworks.com
                 
                 

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Rob de Bie
                Thanks for the additional information, that s very useful to know. What I wonder about now is whether PU casting resins release (di-) isocyanates during mixing
                Message 7 of 28 , Dec 8, 2012
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                  Thanks for the additional information, that's very useful to know.
                  What I wonder about now is whether PU casting resins release (di-)
                  isocyanates during mixing and curing. With spray painting an enormous
                  total surface is created by the large number of tiny droplets, but
                  in casting we're creating only a very small area generally.

                  Rob

                  At 17:17 02-12-2012, you wrote:
                  > "A charcoal respirator will not protect you from the icoyanates."
                  >It's isocyanates.
                  >I am going to have to disagree. A charcoal respirator is accepted in
                  >industrial safety practice (by OSHA) for intermittent low level
                  >exposure (like laboratory work)to isocyanates. We are talking about
                  >half mask with replaceable cartridges here. One should also note
                  >that charcoal cartridges are only rated to a total of 8 hours of
                  >accumulated use maximum, and must be kept in a sealed container when
                  >not in use. I would always use one for spraying any type of paint.
                  >For factory floor multi-hour shift work, a fresh air mask is
                  >generally required.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >------------------------------------
                  >
                  >Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
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