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Re: [casting] Re: respirators does any one use them? SAFETY/SHOP SETTUP

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  • Didj Effects
    Thanks for this thread, nice to hear about what others are doing.  I wholeheartedly agree with the most cautious here, I always wear gloves and a full face
    Message 1 of 28 , Nov 23, 2012
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      Thanks for this thread, nice to hear about what others are doing.  I wholeheartedly agree with the most cautious here, I always wear gloves and a full face mask when casting or sanding.  And safety and shop settup go together.  My shop is a 450 sq ft garage in my town's industrial zone, cheap rent, with separate hoods for casting and sanding (thinking I'll add another for post-cure).  Fresh air in to a 150 sq ft area insulated and sealed off for casting, air warmed and dried, and expelled thru the hood by a standard home ventilation fan with inexpensive filters.  With this settup I'm able to cast year round @ 2500ft elevation.

      For especially dusty sanding, like removing tags with a dremel, clamp a shop vac nozzle to your work area with the vac outside - the instant dust removal makes it a lot easier to see what you're doing, too.

      -=cam


      ________________________________
      From: DavidS <booney_1@...>
      To: casting@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Friday, November 23, 2012 12:28 PM
      Subject: [casting] Re: respirators does any one use them?


       
      In the past I was a semiconductor engineer and worked with a variety of dangerous chemicals and I whole heartedly agree with you. I think too many people are exposed to dangerous chemicals without being aware of how toxic they can be. I started this thread because I had not seen or heard of anybody using protection when casting. In the pictures on web sites, people are pouring resins on kitchen tables with out any type of hood or respirator. I think I'm going to make a small hood to use in my garage that is vented outside, and use a respirator.

      And on the safety of the chemicals, there is research on the chemicals used in polyurethanes, and they are some of the most dangerous.

      Thanks for your reply!

      David

      --- In casting@yahoogroups.com, casting-owner@yahoogroups.com wrote:
      >
      > Hi David, I know you've had many responses to this question, but here's my two cents.
      >
      > In my opinion, there has been far too little research done on the effects of various chemicals on the human body to take a chance on breathing any of them. Medical science is notorious for saying something is safe, and then years later reversing their stance on it.
      >
      > So my policy is, if it's a chemical, I use a fume hood and a mask. My fume hood is pretty powerful, so I sometimes skip the mask for small resin pours. But overall I don't see any point in risking my health for a hobby.
      >
      > The other thing is, that even something as innocuous as talcum powder can be a serious health hazard. Recent studies have linked the regular breathing of any kind of particulate matter (even dust) to an increased risk of lung cancer. So why take a chance?
      >
      > Anyway, that's my advice to everyone in any hobby which uses chemicals or powders, regardless of what's in them. Protect yourself! By doing so, it is my hope that I will live long enough to be a burden to my children. ;-)
      >
      > Pat Lawless
      >
      >
      > --- In casting@yahoogroups.com, "DavidS" <booney_1@> wrote:
      > >
      > > I was reading the MSDS docs on the Smooth-on website and I realized that respirators were recommended for polyurethane resin casting.
      > >
      > > Two questions
      > >
      > > 1. Is there a general purpose resin that is safe enough that a respirator is not required.
      > >
      > > 2. Recommendations on a respirator?
      > >
      > >
      > > thanks
      > > David
      > >
      >




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Charles Anderson
      Hi All, For a reason very similar to this I avoid aluminium (aluminum for the people in the USA) that comes into contact with food. No aluminium cooking pots,
      Message 2 of 28 , Nov 23, 2012
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        Hi All,

        For a reason very similar to this I avoid aluminium (aluminum for the
        people in the USA) that comes into contact with food. No aluminium
        cooking pots, utensils, or food containers.

        The reasoning behind this is that when I was much younger and had more
        hair, I went for a hair analysis (as I was losing it). The results came
        back that I had high amounts of aluminium in my hair samples. Later on
        I heard that there may be links to Alzheimer from ingesting aluminium.

        When I started work for an Aluminium company the marketing team was
        actively campaigning that aluminium is harmless. I candidly asked the
        metallurgists about my fears. They said that there were no scientific
        links to my fears, but suggested that I cook in stainless steel and not
        to drink out of aluminium cans.


        Regards Charles from Oz


        On 24/11/2012 03:20, casting-owner@yahoogroups.com wrote:
        > In my opinion, there has been far too little research done on the effects of various chemicals on the human body to take a chance on breathing any of them. Medical science is notorious for saying something is safe, and then years later reversing their stance on it.
        >
      • auto249243
        These resins are not volatile(they do not evaporate into the air). Other than an over abundance of caution and lawsuit avoidance, I do not think there is great
        Message 3 of 28 , Nov 25, 2012
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          These resins are not volatile(they do not evaporate into the air). Other than an over abundance of caution and lawsuit avoidance, I do not think there is great deal to be concerned about. Of greater concern, especially with epoxy and polyurethane(isocyanates)is sensitization from skin contact. Wear chemical protective gloves. That said, I have been a lab chemist in the paint field for 30+ years, the first 15 with exposure to worse than anything you are likely to get a hold of and little or no protective equipment use. I have yet to have any problem more severe than minor chapped hands. The weekend alcohol indulgence will probably kill more brain cells. Individual mileage may vary. An open window and fan or oversize vented hood should be more than enough, I would think.
        • fordaholic
          I agree totally. I sprayed all kinds of automotive paint in a bodyshop and years ago we didn t have the convenience of spray booths. A cheap one was over 10K
          Message 4 of 28 , Nov 25, 2012
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            I agree totally. I sprayed all kinds of automotive paint in a bodyshop and years ago we didn't have the convenience of spray booths. A cheap one was over 10K and that was alot more back then than it is now. The most we ever used were 3M paper dust masks and then only if you were the one spraying paint or primer but 10 feet away from you another guy was spraying paint while you were pulling off trim or pounding out a dent so you got exposed either way. The most I ever got was if me or someone else sprayed a car blue, at the end of the day I could blow my nose and it would come out blue or whatever color was sprayed last. My nose hairs caught most of it, that's what they are there for. I did that for years and still do some minor paintwork in my garage now and then plus build scale model cars and trucks and spraypaint them with rattlecan spraypaint in addition to pouring polyurethane resin and RTV silicone rubber. Like auto24**** said, the weekend partying kills more brain cells that the resin will ever do. I did alot more damage to my brain cells back in the 1970's smokin wacky-tobacky. I also smoked Marlboro(Cowboy Killers) cigarettes since I was 17. I quit 3 years ago at age 53 and I'm breathing fine. A good pair of latex or vinyl throw away gloves should be sufficient for pouring resin.
            Kenny / Blue Oval ResinWorks

            --- In casting@yahoogroups.com, "auto249243" <auto249243@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            >
            > These resins are not volatile(they do not evaporate into the air). Other than an over abundance of caution and lawsuit avoidance, I do not think there is great deal to be concerned about. Of greater concern, especially with epoxy and polyurethane(isocyanates)is sensitization from skin contact. Wear chemical protective gloves. That said, I have been a lab chemist in the paint field for 30+ years, the first 15 with exposure to worse than anything you are likely to get a hold of and little or no protective equipment use. I have yet to have any problem more severe than minor chapped hands. The weekend alcohol indulgence will probably kill more brain cells. Individual mileage may vary. An open window and fan or oversize vented hood should be more than enough, I would think.
            >
          • Charles Anderson
            ... In my early days of house renavation I poisoned myself with solvents, and was very sick for three days :-( I learned my lesson, that opened windows may
            Message 5 of 28 , Nov 26, 2012
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              On 26/11/2012 03:37, auto249243 wrote:
              >
              > An open window and fan or oversize vented hood should be more than enough, I would think.
              In my early days of house renavation I poisoned myself with solvents,
              and was very sick for three days :-( I learned my lesson, that opened
              windows may not always be enough.

              Regards Charles from Oz
            • Rob de Bie
              A few years ago I looked into protection against isocyanates, and found that it generally not stopped by respirator cartridges. The positive air pressure masks
              Message 6 of 28 , Nov 26, 2012
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                A few years ago I looked into protection against isocyanates, and
                found that it generally not stopped by respirator cartridges. The
                positive air pressure masks of car painters then starts to make
                sense. It can also penetrate gloves.

                I wanted to mention this to avoid that PU resin casters think they
                are safe behind a respirator, while they are not. Now I hope I
                remembered it correctly!

                Rob

                At 21:28 23-11-2012, you wrote:
                >In the past I was a semiconductor engineer and worked with a variety
                >of dangerous chemicals and I whole heartedly agree with you. I think
                >too many people are exposed to dangerous chemicals without being
                >aware of how toxic they can be. I started this thread because I had
                >not seen or heard of anybody using protection when casting. In the
                >pictures on web sites, people are pouring resins on kitchen tables
                >with out any type of hood or respirator. I think I'm going to make a
                >small hood to use in my garage that is vented outside, and use a respirator.
                >
                >And on the safety of the chemicals, there is research on the
                >chemicals used in polyurethanes, and they are some of the most dangerous.
                >
                >Thanks for your reply!
                >
                >David
                >
                >--- In casting@yahoogroups.com, casting-owner@yahoogroups.com wrote:
                > >
                > > Hi David, I know you've had many responses to this question, but
                > here's my two cents.
                > >
                > > In my opinion, there has been far too little research done on the
                > effects of various chemicals on the human body to take a chance on
                > breathing any of them. Medical science is notorious for saying
                > something is safe, and then years later reversing their stance on it.
                > >
                > > So my policy is, if it's a chemical, I use a fume hood and a
                > mask. My fume hood is pretty powerful, so I sometimes skip the
                > mask for small resin pours. But overall I don't see any point in
                > risking my health for a hobby.
                > >
                > > The other thing is, that even something as innocuous as talcum
                > powder can be a serious health hazard. Recent studies have linked
                > the regular breathing of any kind of particulate matter (even dust)
                > to an increased risk of lung cancer. So why take a chance?
                > >
                > > Anyway, that's my advice to everyone in any hobby which uses
                > chemicals or powders, regardless of what's in them. Protect
                > yourself! By doing so, it is my hope that I will live long enough
                > to be a burden to my children. ;-)
                > >
                > > Pat Lawless
                > >
                > >
                > > --- In casting@yahoogroups.com, "DavidS" <booney_1@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > I was reading the MSDS docs on the Smooth-on website and I
                > realized that respirators were recommended for polyurethane resin casting.
                > > >
                > > > Two questions
                > > >
                > > > 1. Is there a general purpose resin that is safe enough that a
                > respirator is not required.
                > > >
                > > > 2. Recommendations on a respirator?
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > thanks
                > > > David
                > > >
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >------------------------------------
                >
                >Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
              • Evyn MacDude
                ... Ack!, ok, I have used mostly Polyester Resins that uses MEKP as a catalyst, which are different critters epoxy and polyurethane resins. Went out and read
                Message 7 of 28 , Nov 26, 2012
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                  On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 8:37 AM, auto249243 <auto249243@...> wrote:

                  >
                  >
                  > These resins are not volatile(they do not evaporate into the air). Other
                  > than an over abundance of caution and lawsuit avoidance, I do not think
                  > there is great deal to be concerned about. Of greater concern, especially
                  > with epoxy and polyurethane(isocyanates)is sensitization from skin contact.
                  >


                  Ack!, ok, I have used mostly Polyester Resins that uses MEKP as a catalyst,
                  which are different critters epoxy and polyurethane resins. Went out and
                  read my materials log to be sure. Hint; keep a log of what you have and
                  where is saves a lot of hassle if the Fire Inspector shows up.

                  Anyways as I said read your 1.MSDS, 2. Learn the best practices for your
                  Material, 3. Documentation.


                  --
                  Evyn


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Evyn MacDude
                  On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 2:17 AM, Charles Anderson
                  Message 8 of 28 , Nov 26, 2012
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                    On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 2:17 AM, Charles Anderson <
                    charlesanderson@...> wrote:

                    > On 26/11/2012 03:37, auto249243 wrote:
                    > >
                    > > An open window and fan or oversize vented hood should be more than
                    > enough, I would think.
                    > In my early days of house renavation I poisoned myself with solvents,
                    > and was very sick for three days :-( I learned my lesson, that opened
                    > windows may not always be enough.


                    My Uncle, Cousin-in-law and I learned lesson under a house installing a
                    Hottub. Only have to do it once...
                    --
                    Evyn


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Kenny Anderson
                    Yes, you remembered it correctly.   But regular Lacquer and acrylics are OK to use with a respirator. When you get into spraying polyurethane enamels then a
                    Message 9 of 28 , Nov 27, 2012
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                      Yes, you remembered it correctly.   But regular Lacquer and acrylics are OK to use with a respirator. When you get into spraying polyurethane enamels then a fresh air setup is the way to go. A charcoal respirator will not protect you from the icoyanates. ( I hope I spelled that right) But pouring resin isn't the same as spraying urethane paint thru a spraygun so there's nothing to protect you from anyway. I've done all of the above. I worked as an automotive bodyman/painter for many years before becoming a resin caster.
                      Kenny. 
                       
                       

                       

                      Have You Driven or Built a FORD...Lately ???
                      I Have.!!!   Everyday !!!
                       
                       
                      Always Looking for & Buying any FoMoCo 1/25th scale Model kits and Promo Collections from the 60's, 70's  and 80's,  also any Ford and/or Motorcraft Memorabilia Too,
                      Mail or Email me your list !!!

                      Kenny Anderson
                      Oak Lawn, IL.60453

                       
                       OPEN, OPEN, OPEN !!!  Blue Oval ResinWorks , featuring 1/25th scale 1961-87 Ford Pickups(crewcabs),  68-72 Ford Galaxie 500 XL & LTD conv.,   75-78 LTD 4 dr. Landau,  88-91 LTD Crown Victoria Police Cruiser,   67 & 68-69 Rancheros, Ford LN-8000 CrewCab & an LTL-9000  semi & many Ford Pickup Cabs, Beds, 4x4 Parts & Accessories.....plus a lot more never produced Fords coming in the near future.  All items in 1/25th scale.  Check it out now at;
                       http://www.blue-oval-resinworks.com
                       
                       

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • auto249243
                      A charcoal respirator will not protect you from the icoyanates. It s isocyanates. I am going to have to disagree. A charcoal respirator is accepted in
                      Message 10 of 28 , Dec 2, 2012
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                        "A charcoal respirator will not protect you from the icoyanates."
                        It's isocyanates.
                        I am going to have to disagree. A charcoal respirator is accepted in industrial safety practice (by OSHA) for intermittent low level exposure (like laboratory work)to isocyanates. We are talking about half mask with replaceable cartridges here. One should also note that charcoal cartridges are only rated to a total of 8 hours of accumulated use maximum, and must be kept in a sealed container when not in use. I would always use one for spraying any type of paint. For factory floor multi-hour shift work, a fresh air mask is generally required.
                      • Kenny Anderson
                        If you look into icocyanates in paint such as Dupont Imron you will find that there is no proof that a respirator actually works 100%. Yes they do say it s OK
                        Message 11 of 28 , Dec 3, 2012
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                          If you look into icocyanates in paint such as Dupont Imron you will find that there is no proof that a respirator actually works 100%. Yes they do say it's OK on a short term basis and that the filter cartridges are supposedly good for 8 hours and thats it but they have no idea of any long term usage and I'm talking about years here not 8 hours a day. 
                               Here's an excerpt from an article on a webpage I found on Icocyanates in polyurethane resin.
                           
                          .
                          DATA SHEET
                          URETHANE RESIN SYSTEMS
                          Monona Rossol, Health and Safety Director
                          United Scenic Artists, Local USA 829, IATSE
                          181 Thompson St., # 23
                          New York, NY 10012-2586
                          212-777-0062
                          E-mail: ACTSNYC@...
                          © October 10, 1995 (revised 6/8/07, 7-31-09)
                          STRAIGHT TALK ABOUT URETHANE FOAM AND CASTING RESINS
                           


                           
                          In the art and theater world, air-purifying respirators almost never can be used safely or legally
                          as protection against products which release diisocyanates. Shops must either have a local
                          ventilation system (e.g. a spray booth) that air sampling tests show completely capture the
                          diisocyanates, or employers should provide air-supplied full-face respirators with protective
                          clothing for the skin for workers using significant amounts of two-component urethane. For the
                          full OSHA policy, see the July 18, 2000 letter of interpretation at www.osha.gov.
                           
                          But there are some urethane systems that only appear to be a single component product. For
                          example, Great StuffTM looks like a single product, but the two components are mixed in the long
                          nozzle. So any time you purchase a urethane product, read the label and Material Safety Data
                          Sheet (MSDS) carefully. If the label or MSDS indicates that the substance releases
                          diisocyanates, is it highly hazardous.
                          IF THEY’RE SO BAD, WHY AIN’T I DEAD?
                          Not everyone exposed to isocyanates becomes seriously ill, just as not everyone is allergic to
                          poison ivy. Although the isocyanates are irritating to all people at high levels, the allergic effects
                          can manifest themselves at very low levels in only some people.
                            
                          I still haven't found any actual proof that pouring resin in my basement shop is presenting anything dangerous, but there's no proof that it isn't either. So with all this information, I'm nowhere closer to finding an answer than I was before.
                          Kenny./Blue Oval ResinWorks.
                           

                           

                          Have You Driven or Built a FORD...Lately ???
                          I Have.!!!   Everyday !!!
                           
                           
                          Always Looking for & Buying any FoMoCo 1/25th scale Model kits and Promo Collections from the 60's, 70's  and 80's,  also any Ford and/or Motorcraft Memorabilia Too,
                          Mail or Email me your list !!!

                          Kenny Anderson
                          Oak Lawn, IL.60453

                           
                           OPEN, OPEN, OPEN !!!  Blue Oval ResinWorks , featuring 1/25th scale 1961-87 Ford Pickups(crewcabs),  68-72 Ford Galaxie 500 XL & LTD conv.,   75-78 LTD 4 dr. Landau,  88-91 LTD Crown Victoria Police Cruiser,   67 & 68-69 Rancheros, Ford LN-8000 CrewCab & an LTL-9000  semi & many Ford Pickup Cabs, Beds, 4x4 Parts & Accessories.....plus a lot more never produced Fords coming in the near future.  All items in 1/25th scale.  Check it out now at;
                           http://www.blue-oval-resinworks.com
                           
                           

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Rob de Bie
                          Thanks for the additional information, that s very useful to know. What I wonder about now is whether PU casting resins release (di-) isocyanates during mixing
                          Message 12 of 28 , Dec 8, 2012
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                            Thanks for the additional information, that's very useful to know.
                            What I wonder about now is whether PU casting resins release (di-)
                            isocyanates during mixing and curing. With spray painting an enormous
                            total surface is created by the large number of tiny droplets, but
                            in casting we're creating only a very small area generally.

                            Rob

                            At 17:17 02-12-2012, you wrote:
                            > "A charcoal respirator will not protect you from the icoyanates."
                            >It's isocyanates.
                            >I am going to have to disagree. A charcoal respirator is accepted in
                            >industrial safety practice (by OSHA) for intermittent low level
                            >exposure (like laboratory work)to isocyanates. We are talking about
                            >half mask with replaceable cartridges here. One should also note
                            >that charcoal cartridges are only rated to a total of 8 hours of
                            >accumulated use maximum, and must be kept in a sealed container when
                            >not in use. I would always use one for spraying any type of paint.
                            >For factory floor multi-hour shift work, a fresh air mask is
                            >generally required.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >------------------------------------
                            >
                            >Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
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