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Suggestions requested - making a master

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  • wizatlarge
    Hello all, I am an occassional caster and I am afraid my sculpting skills are in the little to none range. However, I think that I should be able to handle
    Message 1 of 13 , Oct 1, 2011
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      Hello all, I am an occassional caster and I am afraid my sculpting skills are in the little to none range. However, I think that I should be able to handle this project, if I can get a few suggestions on how to proceed from you.

      I picked up a couple of really nice, heavy duty tripods at the Goodwill, for a very low price. Turns out they are missing the removeable plate that attaches to the camera. I have looked for replacement parts but these tripods have been discontinued for about 15 years.

      So, I think this would be a good project for me. What I want to do is to create a master piece that will replace the missing plastic plate. It has an angle on one end so it won't slip out of the tripod, and there's a spot that is designed to interact with a spring loaded lever which swings into place to lock or release the plate.

      After I've created the master in whatever medium would be best, I will use that to create a silicone mold. And then I can cast a replacement part out of some type of very hard liquid resin.

      So, my first question is, how do I make the master piece and what should I make it out of? I thought of maybe just pressing some molding putty into the recess and letting it set up. I'd have to make sure it didn't get stuck in there of course. Any comment on that idea, or suggestion of a better way?

      Thanks,

      Gabe
    • jmccann@centurytel.net
      Check on Amazon for replacement camera mounts, then just buy a new tripod, I even bought a walking stick with a camera mount on it, the options are endless and
      Message 2 of 13 , Oct 1, 2011
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        Check on Amazon for replacement camera mounts, then just buy a new tripod, I even bought a walking stick with a camera mount on it, the options are endless and cheaper than making your own unless you just want the thrill of making your own parts.
        http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_8_7?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=tripod+mount&sprefix=tripod+#/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=tripod&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Atripod

        Obey Gravity, it's the law!

        John

        From: wizatlarge
        Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2011 4:00 PM
        To: casting@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [casting] Suggestions requested - making a master

        Hello all, I am an occassional caster and I am afraid my sculpting skills are in the little to none range. However, I think that I should be able to handle this project, if I can get a few suggestions on how to proceed from you.

        I picked up a couple of really nice, heavy duty tripods at the Goodwill, for a very low price. Turns out they are missing the removeable plate that attaches to the camera. I have looked for replacement parts but these tripods have been discontinued for about 15 years.

        So, I think this would be a good project for me. What I want to do is to create a master piece that will replace the missing plastic plate. It has an angle on one end so it won't slip out of the tripod, and there's a spot that is designed to interact with a spring loaded lever which swings into place to lock or release the plate.

        After I've created the master in whatever medium would be best, I will use that to create a silicone mold. And then I can cast a replacement part out of some type of very hard liquid resin.

        So, my first question is, how do I make the master piece and what should I make it out of? I thought of maybe just pressing some molding putty into the recess and letting it set up. I'd have to make sure it didn't get stuck in there of course. Any comment on that idea, or suggestion of a better way?

        Thanks,

        Gabe



        ------------------------------------

        Yahoo! Groups Links




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • John Willis
        Hi Gabe, I had one of those Tripods. It s still around here somewhere.probably packed away with the rest of My film camera gear. The plastic insert broke and
        Message 3 of 13 , Oct 1, 2011
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          Hi Gabe,
          I had one of those Tripods. It's still around here somewhere.probably
          packed away with the rest of My film camera gear. The plastic insert
          broke and dumped a $400.00 NIKKOR lens into a concrete floor jamming
          the lens and making it an expensive paper weight. I made a
          replacement from aluminum. Filing and grinding it with a trusty Dremel
          til it was the correct size and shape. Of course I had the broken piece
          to use as a master.I would do a bunch of measurements and rough a master
          ( rough being a relative term - the master is as smooth and blemish free
          as you can make it ) from soft wood such as basswood or clear grain
          pine. Then you could make a mold using that as a master .Then cast the
          part in alumilite.
          Or make a metal one as I did.I like strength in things that hold up
          expensive camera gear.
          My 2¢,
          John C. Willis
          Mobile, Al
        • Stephen
          That is the advantage of the “olden days.” Namely, quality of metal parts. I bought my tripod in 1958 – all the parts were metal. Aluminum, yes, but
          Message 4 of 13 , Oct 2, 2011
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            That is the advantage of the “olden days.” Namely, quality of metal parts. I
            bought my tripod in 1958 – all the parts were metal. Aluminum, yes, but
            nevertheless, metal.

            It is still in fine condition and quite sturdy.

            To keep prices down years ago the manufacturers went over to plastic. Having
            tools with plastic parts is like living with time bombs that can go off at
            any time. In 1980 the previous owner of my house installed a humidifier in
            the overhead heating/air conditioning ductwork in the basement. Not a bad
            idea but it was made of plastic. Well, with all that weight of water
            constantly in it and with the aging properties of plastic, I went downstairs
            one day and found the entire humidifier had fallen away from the ductwork
            because the plastic flange had failed after about 20 years. The material
            just fatigued to the point where it gave way. Water was flooding into my
            basement. What a mess.

            Nowadays we have a new problem. To save money the manufacturers have
            everything made in China, where the quality is so bad that the silly things
            don’t work correctly and/or poison the place with toxic fumes.

            It is like our technology is going backwards.

            Move over, Fred Flintstone, here we come.

            Stephen – I hate plastic

            PS. I read in a technical journal how more and more of the operating parts
            of the new cars are being made of plastic. Oil pans, for example and I saw
            one item that was filled with gears, all plastic including the housings. Oh
            Joy. Yes, the new plastics they are using are special formulations that have
            strength and durability, like the carbon based beams Fine, but to save
            money the manufacturers will still use the least expensive materials which
            will fail earlier.



            _____

            From: casting@yahoogroups.com [mailto:casting@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
            John Willis
            Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2011 12:31 AM
            To: casting@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [casting] Suggestions requested - making a master





            Hi Gabe,
            I had one of those Tripods. It's still around here somewhere.probably
            packed away with the rest of My film camera gear. The plastic insert
            broke and dumped a $400.00 NIKKOR lens into a concrete floor jamming
            the lens and making it an expensive paper weight. I made a
            replacement from aluminum. Filing and grinding it with a trusty Dremel
            til it was the correct size and shape. Of course I had the broken piece
            to use as a master.I would do a bunch of measurements and rough a master
            ( rough being a relative term - the master is as smooth and blemish free
            as you can make it ) from soft wood such as basswood or clear grain
            pine. Then you could make a mold using that as a master .Then cast the
            part in alumilite.
            Or make a metal one as I did.I like strength in things that hold up
            expensive camera gear.
            My 2¢,
            John C. Willis
            Mobile, Al





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Rexarino
            Gabe, I have a couple of those on different tripods, and have considered making one that fits both bases. Do you need dimensions? If so, what brand is your
            Message 5 of 13 , Oct 2, 2011
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              Gabe, I have a couple of those on different tripods, and have considered
              making one that fits both bases. Do you need dimensions? If so, what brand
              is your tripod? If I have a match, I can measure mine for you. They don't
              all interchange.

              Rex

              On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 4:00 PM, wizatlarge <wizatlarge@...> wrote:

              > Hello all, I am an occassional caster and I am afraid my sculpting skills
              > are in the little to none range. However, I think that I should be able to
              > handle this project, if I can get a few suggestions on how to proceed from
              > you.
              >
              > I picked up a couple of really nice, heavy duty tripods at the Goodwill,
              > for a very low price. Turns out they are missing the removeable plate that
              > attaches to the camera. I have looked for replacement parts but these
              > tripods have been discontinued for about 15 years.
              >
              > So, I think this would be a good project for me. What I want to do is to
              > create a master piece that will replace the missing plastic plate. It has
              > an angle on one end so it won't slip out of the tripod, and there's a spot
              > that is designed to interact with a spring loaded lever which swings into
              > place to lock or release the plate.
              >
              > After I've created the master in whatever medium would be best, I will use
              > that to create a silicone mold. And then I can cast a replacement part out
              > of some type of very hard liquid resin.
              >
              > So, my first question is, how do I make the master piece and what should I
              > make it out of? I thought of maybe just pressing some molding putty into
              > the recess and letting it set up. I'd have to make sure it didn't get stuck
              > in there of course. Any comment on that idea, or suggestion of a better
              > way?
              >
              > Thanks,
              >
              > Gabe
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Rexarino
              If I were doing it, I might fill in all the voids and incomplete walls with modeling clay so the cavity reflects the shape you want to cast. Coat the cavity
              Message 6 of 13 , Oct 2, 2011
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                If I were doing it, I might fill in all the voids and incomplete walls with
                modeling clay so the cavity reflects the shape you want to cast. Coat the
                cavity with petroleum jelly, then line the cavity carefully with common
                kitchen plastic wrap. Pour in a molding plaster (like Plaster of Paris but
                with less shrinkage). After it sets, carefully remove it and
                the plastic wrap from the cavity, peel off the plastic wrap, then you can
                fix holes and incomplete areas with something like 2 part auto body putty
                applied SPARINGLY. Drill a flat bottom hole for the camera mount screw and
                taper the edges of the hole so there are no undercuts. Sand it smooth,
                paint to seal if needed, cover with release agent for the resin of choice,
                make the outer mold, and cast away.

                Or, you could cut/sand/file a piece of wood to fit, drill a flat bottom hole
                part way through for the camera mount screw, taper the edges of the hole to
                eliminate undercuts, sand, paint and verify fit, then make a master mold to
                receive the resin.

                Or you could make the pattern as above, then cast from aluminum in
                greensand. Mail it to me if you don't have a foundry and I'll make a few
                for you from "wheelium".

                Rex

                On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 4:00 PM, wizatlarge <wizatlarge@...> wrote:

                > snip
                >
                > So, my first question is, how do I make the master piece and what should I
                > make it out of? I thought of maybe just pressing some molding putty into
                > the recess and letting it set up. I'd have to make sure it didn't get stuck
                > in there of course. Any comment on that idea, or suggestion of a better
                > way?
                >
                > Thanks,
                >
                > Gabe
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • wizatlarge
                Thanks to all who responded to my questions. Even to the ones who said it was just a waste of time and to simply buy a new tripod. I think I m going to give
                Message 7 of 13 , Oct 4, 2011
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                  Thanks to all who responded to my questions. Even to the ones who said it was just a waste of time and to simply buy a new tripod.

                  I think I'm going to give it a try, just so I can learn something new and that's always useful later down the road.

                  Rex, thanks for the great tips. I'm going to try some of them and if I get something that works I might just contact you off-list for help with the aluminum casting. Thanks for the offer.

                  Cheers everybody!

                  Gabe
                • Rexarino
                  Gabe, I thought of some other compounds you can use to cast a facsimile. I have used Durham s Water putty and the generic equivalent. There is a dental
                  Message 8 of 13 , Oct 4, 2011
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                    Gabe, I thought of some other compounds you can use to cast a facsimile. I
                    have used Durham's Water putty and the generic equivalent. There is a
                    dental casting putty that hardens a while after removing it from the
                    package, I think it was activated by UV light.

                    I have also, for instance, carefully made a piece of wood to fit the left
                    side, and a piece to fit another side or two, and poured plaster to fill in
                    the rest (you must always start with the left side though - bIG gRIN). Some
                    of the sculptural clays are semi-rigid after setting, and can be baked to
                    harden.

                    Do you want a picture of one of mine, for design purposes?

                    Rex

                    On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 9:07 AM, wizatlarge <wizatlarge@...> wrote:

                    > Thanks to all who responded to my questions. Even to the ones who said it
                    > was just a waste of time and to simply buy a new tripod.
                    >
                    > I think I'm going to give it a try, just so I can learn something new and
                    > that's always useful later down the road.
                    >
                    > Rex, thanks for the great tips. I'm going to try some of them and if I get
                    > something that works I might just contact you off-list for help with the
                    > aluminum casting. Thanks for the offer.
                    >
                    > Cheers everybody!
                    >
                    > Gabe
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------
                    >
                    >


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Richard
                    Rex, Your mentioning the use of water putty caught my attention. Is there much shringage with it? I am going to try and cast a HO gauge steam engine smoke box
                    Message 9 of 13 , Oct 5, 2011
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                      Rex,
                      Your mentioning the use of water putty caught my attention. Is there much shringage with it? I am going to try and cast a HO gauge steam engine smoke box cover, so shrinkage would be a problem. I was going to try it with plaster until I read your post. I know resin would be the best stuff to use but I am cheap (LOL) and with the cover painted black who will know the difference? Where do you find dental casting putty (sounds expensive)?
                      Richard in Vermont

                      --- In casting@yahoogroups.com, Rexarino <rexarino@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Gabe, I thought of some other compounds you can use to cast a facsimile. I
                      > have used Durham's Water putty and the generic equivalent. There is a
                      > dental casting putty that hardens a while after removing it from the
                      > package, I think it was activated by UV light.
                      >
                      > I have also, for instance, carefully made a piece of wood to fit the left
                      > side, and a piece to fit another side or two, and poured plaster to fill in
                      > the rest (you must always start with the left side though - bIG gRIN). Some
                      > of the sculptural clays are semi-rigid after setting, and can be baked to
                      > harden.
                      >
                      > Do you want a picture of one of mine, for design purposes?
                      >
                      > Rex
                    • Rexarino
                      Water putty shrinks according to how thick you mix it, lots of water = more shrink. It s used in woodworking because it has minimal shrinkage when mixed as a
                      Message 10 of 13 , Oct 5, 2011
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                        Water putty shrinks according to how thick you mix it, lots of water = more
                        shrink. It's used in woodworking because it has minimal shrinkage when
                        mixed as a thick putty - BUT - that makes it set up faster! Too much water
                        and it won't set up at all, leaving a gooey mess. When properly mixed
                        (thick) then hardened, it's light and stronger than plaster, but still
                        somewhat brittle - don't drop it on the floor.

                        On one of the dental websites I just checked, it implies that air set dental
                        investment expands as it cures by something like .11 % That's a tenth of a
                        percent, an infinitesimal amount until the casting wedges into the cavity
                        you're trying to duplicate.

                        My dental putty came in the drawer of a dental cabinet I bought from a
                        student moving out of town, so either the putty was free, or it cost me $ 35
                        and the cabinet was free... :-)

                        Dental investment sounds expensive, but this source sells "resin die stone"
                        (resin enhanced dental investment) at 50 lbs for $ 58.50. Too bad it's not
                        available in smaller quantities. If you have a local jewelry supply store
                        or perhaps a ceramic or pottery supply, see if they sell small quantities of
                        investment.

                        http://www.grescoproducts.com/reactars-resindiestone1.aspx

                        Here's another place to look into where you can see the different kinds of
                        and uses for investment;

                        http://www.ransom-randolph.com/

                        Any product you use can benefit from reinforcement. Suspend a piece of
                        window screen fabric/metal or a piece of landscape cloth in the large
                        section(s) of the casting, or use fiberglass cloth or burlap if you have
                        some. Sometimes it's hard to keep it hidden in the cast... Patternmakers
                        once used burlap and Hydrocal plaster to make master molds which were then
                        used to make epoxy fiberglass patterns for large castings. Nasty work, that
                        epoxy fiberglass.

                        Rex


                        On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 7:08 AM, Richard <rh@...> wrote:

                        > Rex,
                        > Your mentioning the use of water putty caught my attention. Is there much
                        > shringage with it? I am going to try and cast a HO gauge steam engine smoke
                        > box cover, so shrinkage would be a problem. I was going to try it with
                        > plaster until I read your post. I know resin would be the best stuff to use
                        > but I am cheap (LOL) and with the cover painted black who will know the
                        > difference? Where do you find dental casting putty (sounds expensive)?
                        > Richard in Vermont
                        >
                        > --- In casting@yahoogroups.com, Rexarino <rexarino@...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Gabe, I thought of some other compounds you can use to cast a facsimile.
                        > I
                        > > have used Durham's Water putty and the generic equivalent. There is a
                        > > dental casting putty that hardens a while after removing it from the
                        > > package, I think it was activated by UV light.
                        > >
                        > > I have also, for instance, carefully made a piece of wood to fit the left
                        > > side, and a piece to fit another side or two, and poured plaster to fill
                        > in
                        > > the rest (you must always start with the left side though - bIG gRIN).
                        > Some
                        > > of the sculptural clays are semi-rigid after setting, and can be baked to
                        > > harden.
                        > >
                        > > Do you want a picture of one of mine, for design purposes?
                        > >
                        > > Rex
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ------------------------------------
                        >
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Mike Bauers
                        How about this stuff? Ultracal, a pattern making plaster. I know the artists use it. It s a version of Hydrocal plaster. $11 for 7lbs
                        Message 11 of 13 , Oct 5, 2011
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                          How about this stuff? Ultracal, a pattern making plaster. I know the artists use it. It's a version of Hydrocal plaster.

                          $11 for 7lbs

                          http://plaster.com/Ultracal.html

                          Mike Bauers

                          On Oct 5, 2011, at 4:00 PM, Rexarino wrote:

                          > Water putty shrinks according to how thick you mix it, lots of water = more
                          > shrink. It's used in woodworking because it has minimal shrinkage when
                          > mixed as a thick putty - BUT - that makes it set up faster! Too much water
                          > and it won't set up at all, leaving a gooey mess. When properly mixed
                          > (thick) then hardened, it's light and stronger than plaster, but still
                          > somewhat brittle - don't drop it on the floor.
                          >
                          > On one of the dental websites I just checked, it implies that air set dental
                          > investment expands as it cures by something like .11 % That's a tenth of a
                          > percent, an infinitesimal amount until the casting wedges into the cavity
                          > you're trying to duplicate.
                          >
                          > My dental putty came in the drawer of a dental cabinet I bought from a
                          > student moving out of town, so either the putty was free, or it cost me $ 35
                          > and the cabinet was free... :-)
                          >
                          > Dental investment sounds expensive,
                        • Rexarino
                          THANK YOU!! I ve wanted to buy that in small quantities forever, just quit searching for it some time ago. Rex ... [Non-text portions of this message have
                          Message 12 of 13 , Oct 5, 2011
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                            THANK YOU!! I've wanted to buy that in small quantities forever, just quit
                            searching for it some time ago.

                            Rex

                            On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 2:21 PM, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote:

                            > How about this stuff? Ultracal, a pattern making plaster. I know the
                            > artists use it. It's a version of Hydrocal plaster.
                            >
                            > $11 for 7lbs
                            >
                            > http://plaster.com/Ultracal.html
                            >
                            > Mike Bauers
                            >
                            > On Oct 5, 2011, at 4:00 PM, Rexarino wrote:
                            >
                            > > Water putty shrinks according to how thick you mix it, lots of water =
                            > more
                            > > shrink. It's used in woodworking because it has minimal shrinkage when
                            > > mixed as a thick putty - BUT - that makes it set up faster! Too much
                            > water
                            > > and it won't set up at all, leaving a gooey mess. When properly mixed
                            > > (thick) then hardened, it's light and stronger than plaster, but still
                            > > somewhat brittle - don't drop it on the floor.
                            > >
                            > > On one of the dental websites I just checked, it implies that air set
                            > dental
                            > > investment expands as it cures by something like .11 % That's a tenth of
                            > a
                            > > percent, an infinitesimal amount until the casting wedges into the cavity
                            > > you're trying to duplicate.
                            > >
                            > > My dental putty came in the drawer of a dental cabinet I bought from a
                            > > student moving out of town, so either the putty was free, or it cost me $
                            > 35
                            > > and the cabinet was free... :-)
                            > >
                            > > Dental investment sounds expensive,
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Mike Bauers
                            Happy to be of help! If you are in a large city, the hard core artists supply stores may also carry this in similar amounts. The ones around me do, perhaps a
                            Message 13 of 13 , Oct 7, 2011
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                              Happy to be of help!

                              If you are in a large city, the hard core artists supply stores may also carry this in similar amounts.

                              The ones around me do, perhaps a few phone calls will find it near you?

                              Of course, having it shipped to your door isn't too bad either.

                              Mike Bauers

                              On Oct 5, 2011, at 4:48 PM, Rexarino wrote:

                              > THANK YOU!! I've wanted to buy that in small quantities forever, just quit
                              > searching for it some time ago.
                              >
                              > Rex
                              >
                              > On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 2:21 PM, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote:
                              >
                              >> How about this stuff? Ultracal, a pattern making plaster. I know the
                              >> artists use it. It's a version of Hydrocal plaster.
                              >>
                              >> $11 for 7lbs
                              >>
                              >> http://plaster.com/Ultracal.html
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