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Re: [carfree_cities] "Nobody with a choice ever took a bus anyw

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  • jym@econet.org
    ... =v= How so? As I ve already pointed out, with electric vehicles (EVs) the emissions still happen, they re just happening somewhere else. Why insist that
    Message 1 of 8 , Apr 16, 2000
      > A very misguided bunch of statements apart from
      > >"Zero-Emissions Vehicles!"
      > which, [whether] you like it or not, is true.

      =v= How so? As I've already pointed out, with electric vehicles
      (EVs) the emissions still happen, they're just happening
      somewhere else. Why insist that they don't? Ignoring such
      realities is exactly the kind of thinking that's gotten us into
      this cars-everywhere mess in the first place!

      > EV's can cope with changes in power technology they are maybe
      > not a world solution, but they adapt well to new ideas power
      > sources may change but the EV's still work.

      =v= Renewable sources of energy are wonderful, but they do have
      their limits. As far as I know, there will never be enough to
      power the current (wasteful) levels of energy consumption, which
      is why renewable energy advocates have long promoted a "soft
      path" of the most energy-efficient alternatives.

      =v= A one-for-one replacement of cars with EVs will simply use
      up the available renewable sources of electricity. The air
      quality authority of southern California, in the U.S. -- where
      there is a lot of windpower -- came up with a scenario in which
      EVs would be put on the road with no net increase in emissions.
      In this scenario, emissions started to increase when more than
      5% of the cars on the road were EVs; and even that's based on
      the assumption that cars are being recharged at night!

      =v= (Note that this scenario only targets maintaining the same
      level of emissions. Actually reducing emissions is, apparently,
      outside the realm of consideration.)

      =v= Does it really make sense to waste renewable sources on a
      5% elite, just so they can share same wasteful and damaging
      automobile-based transportation infrastructure as the other
      95% who are using internal combustion (or the somewhat better
      hybrid) technology?

      > as anyone in [their] right mind knows most cars are at home
      > at night when there is a surplus of power on the grid

      =v= True, but what happens when the car runs out mid-day? Is
      the elite EV operator really going to suffer an inconvenience
      that the non-elite car drivers don't have to deal with?

      =v= I know of a head of a local clean energy foundation who
      would charge up his car in the middle of the day; the rationale
      being that it was important to have it fully-charged "because
      it's a demo," and besides, one car won't make a whole lot of
      difference. Then I read in a little local paper about EV users
      who also claimed to be doing the same thing, but when I walked
      around the neighborhood, I'd see the EVs being charged up in the
      middle of the day. One time I saw a guy there plugging one in
      and I asked him about it, and his response was, hey, it's just
      one car, so it's not going to make a whole lot of difference.
      (Deja-vu!)

      > here in the UK we can now choose to pay our electricity bills
      > to companies that generate the power in the way that we like

      =v= We have that in the U.S., too. The amount of "clean" energy
      available is very limited, and basically what's happening is
      that some of the middle class will pay the higher rates and feel
      better about themselves, while everyone else still uses the same
      old "dirty" energy. The good news is that it indicates a demand
      for clean energy, and a wee bit of the profits are going towards
      building more clean energy, but so far there's been no reduction
      in emissions.

      > I love bicycles too
      > hoping to explore the electric ones soon

      =v= Thereby turning a TRUE zero-emission vehicle into something
      that pollutes. Pfui.

      =v= We have an "electric bicycle" company in California with the
      audacity to name themselves ZAP, meaning "Zero Air Pollution."
      This is, of course, as much a misnomer as ZEV. They have high
      hopes: They once email-spammed me to try to get me to invest in
      their mad scheme to put ZAP electric motors on the bicycles in
      China. (Just *imagine* the environmental consquences of that!)

      =v= All that said, I must say that I do think there's a place
      for electric vehicles and electric bikes. If it's envisioned
      and implemented as a one-by-one replacement of EVs for cars,
      or electric bikes for human-powered bikes; these technologies
      will have no environmental advantage whatsoever.
      <_Jym_>

      Jym Dyer ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: __Q :::
      jym@... ::::::::::::::::: "My other car is :: ==`\(x ::
      http://www.things.org/~jym/ :::: also a bicycle." :: O-/ `O ::

      "In a car you're always in a compartment, and because you're
      used to it you don't realize that through that car window
      everything you see is just more TV."
      -- Robert M. Pirsig,
      _Zen_and_the_Art_of_Motorcycle_Maintenance_
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