Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

RE: [carfree_cities] Re: Jaywalking is good for cities

Expand Messages
  • Carlos F. Pardo SUTP
    Sorry for this quick email regarding my name s meaning... Once I was in a lunch in Thailand, and a guy told me that my name meant Car- loss... no more cars!
    Message 1 of 13 , Mar 3, 2006
      Sorry for this quick email regarding my name's meaning... Once I was in a
      lunch in Thailand, and a guy told me that my name meant Car- loss... no more
      cars!

      Carlos F. Pardo



      -----Original Message-----
      From: carfree_cities@yahoogroups.com [mailto:carfree_cities@yahoogroups.com]
      On Behalf Of Todd Edelman
      Sent: Viernes, 03 de Marzo de 2006 09:05 a.m.
      To: carfree_cities@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [carfree_cities] Re: Jaywalking is good for cities

      carlos.pardo@... wrote:

      "... I fully agree with the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis. Language
      > constructs reality..."

      Or does it really, CARlos...? ;-p

      - T


      ------------------------------------------------------

      Todd Edelman
      International Coordinator
      On the Train Towards the Future!

      Green Idea Factory
      Laubova 5
      CZ-13000 Praha 3

      ++420 605 915 970

      edelman@...
      http://www.worldcarfree.net/onthetrain

      Green Idea Factory,
      a member of World Carfree Network




      Yahoo! Groups Links
    • Simon Baddeley
      The idea of segregation suggested here worries me, but then I am keen on the naked street as the next best to no cars at all.
      Message 2 of 13 , Mar 3, 2006
        The idea of segregation suggested here worries me, but then I am keen on the
        "naked street" as the next best to no cars at all.

        http://www.conwyctc.fsnet.co.uk/pages/safe_rds.htm

        Simon


        > Well, the best large-scale traffic calming procedure is
        > to put up barriers to cars and keep them out entirely.
      • Richard Risemberg
        ... In California, you may cross anywhere, crosswalk or not, UNLESS the street has signals at both ends of the block you re on, in which case you must use
        Message 3 of 13 , Mar 3, 2006
          On Mar 3, 2006, at 4:41 AM, J.H. Crawford wrote:

          > It's important to be clear that jaywalking implies a violation
          > of a traffic law. If there are crosswalks, the law says you
          > are obliged to use them. If there are none, then you may
          > cross where you please, and you are therefore not jaywalking.
          In California, you may cross anywhere, crosswalk or not, UNLESS the
          street has signals at both ends of the block you're on, in which case
          you must use crosswalks.

          My street has such signals, but I jaywalk anyway. Every single day.

          Rick
          --
          Richard Risemberg
          http://www.rickrise.com
          http://www.newcolonist.com
          http://www.living-room.org
        • Doug Salzmann
          ... That s incorrect, at least in most North American jurisdictions. First, it is a common misconception that paint creates crosswalks. It does not.
          Message 4 of 13 , Mar 3, 2006
            > It's important to be clear that jaywalking implies a violation
            > of a traffic law. If there are crosswalks, the law says you
            > are obliged to use them. If there are none, then you may
            > cross where you please, and you are therefore not jaywalking.

            That's incorrect, at least in most North American jurisdictions.

            First, it is a common misconception that paint creates crosswalks. It
            does not.

            "Crosswalk" is typically defined as an extension of the sidewalk,
            shoulder, or whatever pedestrian R.O.W. there may be, across an
            intersection of roadways. The crosswalk thus exists, and the associated
            rights and obligations of pedestrians, drivers, etc. apply, whether it is
            marked (painted) or not.

            Second, mid-block crossings are generally perfectly legal, with the
            proviso that crossing pedestrians must yield to auto traffic before
            beginning to cross. The main exception is between two signalized
            (traffic-light controlled) intersections, where such crossings are
            usually prohibited.

            As this should make clear, "jaywalking" is pretty meaningless as a legal
            term.

            All of the foregoing is subject to the variable provisions of local
            ordinances, of course.


            > >And of course Jaywalking is good for cities, as recent studies have
            > >proven - after all is the best large scale traffic calming procedure.
            >
            > Well, the best large-scale traffic calming procedure is
            > to put up barriers to cars and keep them out entirely.

            Yes, indeed. And, THAT is the subject of this list, isn't it?


            -Doug
          • J.H. Crawford
            ... and reality constructs language ... J.H. Crawford Carfree Cities mailbox@carfree.com
            Message 5 of 13 , Mar 3, 2006
              >This is a great discussion. I think there must be other terms in the
              >US-english strictly related to auto-centric views, which are not found in
              >other languages. I fully agree with the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis. Language
              >constructs reality. Thanks for the comment!

              and reality constructs language


              ----- ### -----
              J.H. Crawford Carfree Cities
              mailbox@... http://www.carfree.com
            • Simon Baddeley
              So can I ask again whether you are comfortable with the Wikipedia entry on jaywalking ?: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaywalking It seems that it might be
              Message 6 of 13 , Mar 3, 2006
                So can I ask again whether you are comfortable with the Wikipedia entry on
                "jaywalking"?:

                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaywalking

                It seems that it might be reasonable to edit in a few sentences at the end
                of the paragraph headed "Driver cooperation" where reference might be made
                to mutual cooperation among ALL road users as encouraged by "naked streets"
                - and indeed give a link to examples of this idea which has behind it the
                idea of no traffic exceeding 17mph in order to allow negotiation between
                different road users via eye contact.

                QUOTE: To disrobe a street, you remove all the conventional methods of
                controlling vehicles and keeping them separate from pedestrians. Traffic
                lights, barriers, signs, curbs, and pedestrian crossings are all taken out.
                The idea behind it is to make the road space less predictable. Instead of
                drivers being able to rely on road markings and charge along on the
                assumption that pedestrians are all corralled safely out of the way, they
                will have to continually interact with people, make decisions about how fast
                to drive and generally take more responsibility for their actions. London is
                trying the idea in Exhibition Road, Kensington, in which some of the
                capital¹s biggest museums are sited. The idea sounds extraordinary, so much
                so that the British tabloid newspaper the Sun wrote in an editorial: ³Have
                you ever, in your whole life, heard of anything more stupid? Apparently the
                idea was conceived in Holland, where everyone is on drugs and drives slowly
                anyway.² It was indeed pioneered in the Netherlands, but by the soberest of
                traffic planners, who claim success in significantly reducing accidents.

                The concept of the naked street was spearheaded by the Netherlands, where
                traffic lights and markings have been stripped from several junctions in
                recent years.
                [Denver Post, 14 Feb. 2005]


                In the Danish city of Christiansfeld, a busy intersection known for traffic
                jams and accidents was given the naked street treatment four years ago.
                Since then, there have been no fatal accidents.
                [Australian, 10 Feb. 2005]


                Best

                Simon


                > From: "J.H. Crawford" <mailbox@...>
                > Reply-To: <carfree_cities@yahoogroups.com>
                > Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 16:57:45 +0000
                > To: <carfree_cities@yahoogroups.com>
                > Subject: RE: [carfree_cities] Re: Jaywalking is good for cities
                >
                >
                >
                >> This is a great discussion. I think there must be other terms in the
                >> US-english strictly related to auto-centric views, which are not found in
                >> other languages. I fully agree with the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis. Language
                >> constructs reality. Thanks for the comment!
                >
                > and reality constructs language
                >
                >
                > ----- ### -----
                > J.H. Crawford Carfree Cities
                > mailbox@... http://www.carfree.com
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
              • Lloyd Wright
                One small suggestion regarding naked streets . The person attributed with developing the idea, Hans Monderman, tends to use the term shared space rather
                Message 7 of 13 , Mar 3, 2006
                  One small suggestion regarding "naked streets". The person attributed with
                  developing the idea, Hans Monderman, tends to use the term "shared space"
                  rather than "naked streets". I think that "shared space" is probably a
                  slightly more marketable name. I have also heard it called "post traffic
                  calming" and "third-generation traffic calming". However, it seems that the
                  people who have worked hard to make the concept a reality seem to prefer
                  "shared space". There is a Wikipedia entry for shared space, if anyone is
                  interested:

                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shared_space

                  Best,

                  Lloyd

                  ------ Original Message ------
                  Received: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 12:17:02 PM EST
                  From: Simon Baddeley <s.j.baddeley@...>
                  To: Carfree Cities <carfree_cities@yahoogroups.com>
                  Subject: Re: [carfree_cities] Re: Jaywalking is good for cities

                  of the paragraph headed "Driver cooperation" where reference might be made to
                  mutual cooperation among ALL road users as encouraged by "naked streets" - and
                  indeed give a link to examples of this idea which has behind it the idea of no
                  traffic exceeding 17mph in order to allow negotiation between different road
                  users via eye contact.
                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.