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Re: [carfree_cities] Only three of us... plus Denny Hastert?

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  • Simon Baddeley
    5 days after Katrina? I¹m trying to think what my reaction would be to a suggestion we move and rebuild a flooded London less than a week after it happened.
    Message 1 of 7 , Sep 2, 2005
      5 days after Katrina?

      I¹m trying to think what my reaction would be to a suggestion we move and
      rebuild a flooded London less than a week after it happened. It¹s a bit like
      talking about the will before the funeral.

      There is a delicate balance between bold and sometimes ruthless creative
      policy thought and ill timed insensitive logic.

      Simon




      From: Doug Salzmann <doug@...>
      Reply-To: <carfree_cities@yahoogroups.com>
      Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 09:36:42 -0700 (PDT)
      To: Carfree Cities List <carfree_cities@yahoogroups.com>
      Subject: [carfree_cities] Only three of us... plus Denny Hastert?

      Do you all simply disagree, believing that rebuilding New Orleans in that
      bowl near the edge of the Gulf is actually a good idea?

      Is it your view that, for some reason or reasons, we should not advocate a
      relocation/redesign of the ravaged city, although that might be a good
      idea under other circumstances?

      Help me out, please. What am I missing here?



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Doug Salzmann
      ... You bet, Simon. And not a moment too soon. Unless it is diverted at the very start, it will probably be utterly impossible to to resist the
      Message 2 of 7 , Sep 2, 2005
        On Fri, 2 Sep 2005, Simon Baddeley wrote:

        > 5 days after Katrina?

        You bet, Simon. And not a moment too soon.

        Unless it is diverted at the very start, it will probably be utterly
        impossible to to resist the emotion-driven, fuzzy-headed groundswell
        (encouraged and led by self-serving politicians and their constituents --
        the ruthless, thoughtless capitalists who can already smell the *vast*
        sums of money about to rain down on the region) that will arise insisting
        that New Orleans be rebuilt exactly as before, but behind better, safer levees.

        Now, right now, is the *only* time to try to prevent the monumental
        stupidity that is sure to result from this disaster and the craven
        manipulation of the aftermath.

        > There is a delicate balance between bold and sometimes ruthless creative
        > policy thought and ill timed insensitive logic.

        Perhaps. If so, I think you may have misjudged that balance in this case.

        I'm much more worried about wasting perhaps a hundred billion dollars
        (yes, I mean that) to place tens of thousands of poor people *back* in the
        path of near-certain disaster than I am about offending local pride.

        One can get over the latter. As is so glaringly apparent at this very
        moment, the former has a tendency to kill. Dead people aren't proud.


        -Doug





        ==================
        Doug Salzmann
        P.O. Box 1007
        Larkspur, CA 94977
      • Mike Neuman
        Americans are different than Europeans in several respects, and perhaps this is one of them. The decision on whether to rebuild the City of New Orleans on new
        Message 3 of 7 , Sep 2, 2005
          Americans are different than Europeans in several respects, and
          perhaps this is one of them.

          The decision on whether to rebuild the City of New Orleans on new
          location versus on existing (former) location OBVIOUSLY must be made
          soon. If the decision is to rebuild on new location, buildings could
          be going up as we speak. Houses don't take that long to build anymore
          the number of homeless families will number in the tens if not
          hundreds of thousands.

          The sooner the decision is made, the better.

          As for my vote, I think they'd be crazy to rebuild the city at the
          existing location. The reason is because not only will hurricanes
          get more powerful in the future (because the sea temperatures are
          predicted to increase), but sea level (without the hurricanes) is
          also predicted to rise. Perhaps they could build temporary
          structures or design for a 10-year life, but even that would be
          risky.

          This tragedy should open up some eyes, I hope, to the impending much
          more calamitous tragedy of global warming, which threatens us all and
          succeeding generations even worse: with horrendous heat waves, more
          flooding, more drought, more disease, mass animal and plant
          extinction, and more famine (not just Africa). The current
          administration, with help from the National Weather Service, the
          Congress, Exxon, the coal industry, and the mainstream media (among
          others) have been lying to the American people on this issue for far
          too long, just to maintain the status quo and keep things running
          smooth (with Americans continuing to burn more oil in transportation,
          to buy more automobiles and SUVs, and so that power companies will
          continue to burn more coal in electricity generating power plants).
          It's time for Americans to wake up to the reality of the situation
          that they are creating for themselves and for the rest of the world.

          Sea Level Rises 1880 - 1980 (first graph):
          http://www.grida.no/climate/vital/19.htm

          Potential Sea Level Rises
          http://www.grida.no/climate/vital/24.htm

          Potential Changes in Temperature
          http://www.grida.no/climate/vital/23.htm


          --- In carfree_cities@yahoogroups.com, Simon Baddeley
          <s.j.baddeley@b...> wrote:
          > 5 days after Katrina?
          >
          > I¹m trying to think what my reaction would be to a suggestion we
          move and
          > rebuild a flooded London less than a week after it happened.
          It¹s a
          bit like
          > talking about the will before the funeral.
          >
          > There is a delicate balance between bold and sometimes ruthless
          creative
          > policy thought and ill timed insensitive logic.
        • Mike Neuman
          ... Here is a link to a proposal I wrote awhile back for the state which I live in (State of Wisconsin) to do its fair share in responding to the global
          Message 4 of 7 , Sep 3, 2005
            mtneuman said:

            > This tragedy should open up some eyes, I hope, to the impending much
            > more calamitous tragedy of global warming, which threatens us all ...

            Here is a link to a proposal I wrote awhile back for the state which I
            live in (State of Wisconsin) to do its fair share in responding to the
            global warming threat. The mechanics of the proposal could be applied
            elsewhere.

            This is the kind of systems-level economic change that I believe is
            necessary to confront the global warming threat. Among other things,
            it would promote car-free cities by financially rewarding through
            annual monetary incentives ("rebates") individuals and families who
            can show they didn't drive at all over the year, or drove very little.
            This would be verified by using data bases for odometer mileages of
            registered vehicles, drivers license records, insurance company
            records as well as signed certificates.

            The potential rewards ($400 - $1,200/yr.) would have to be enough to
            entice middle income families to drive less; but for families at
            subsistence level - like many of those who live in the New Orleans
            area - they could be the difference between living in a "make" or a
            "break" situation.

            Conserve, NOW!
            http://f4.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/gMgZQwCnQpDofRIp8vTlF7NdYtC3P0M7ij9oqvgl7k4nwmalWU3xxRQemoWpKVbe81H6ygRpskCiA2v1BS0-4sEhBbgvr_k/ConserveNOW.pdf

            If you can't access it from the above link, you might want to consider
            joining "Climate Change Politics":

            climatechangepolitics@yahoogroups.com
            climatechangepolitics-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

            Below a link to an article posted on the "climatechangepolitics" group
            today by the group owner. Patriot Americans, please consider yourself
            forewarned.

            Mike Neuman

            Katrina comes home to roost
            By Sidney Blumenthal
            Friday September 2, 2005
            http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1561246,00.html
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