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Re: [carfree_cities] Only three of us... plus Denny Hastert?

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  • Andrew Hitchcock
    I agree as well, I just didn t want to flood the list with a bunch of me too . Louisiana Governor Blanco was also offended by Hastert s comments.
    Message 1 of 7 , Sep 2, 2005
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      I agree as well, I just didn't want to flood the list with a bunch of 'me
      too'.

      Louisiana Governor Blanco was also offended by Hastert's comments.

      http://www.wdsu.com/weather/4928087/detail.html

      Unfortunately, there will be lots of opposition to rebuilding in a
      different spot. I've blogged about the economic effects, how biodiesel is
      now cheaper than petrodiesel, and rebuilding New Orleans carfree in this
      blog post:

      http://liberalechochamber.blogspot.com/2005/09/new-new-orleans.html

      My readership is near zero and my blog has yet to be indexed by Google, so
      unfortunately it probably won't do much good. However, I'm trying to link
      to it from a number of places to get the word out. We should try to get
      our idea in the heads of lots of people right away; it should be in the
      back of their mind when discussions begin on a larger scale. I suggest a
      call to arms from everyone on this list to post about the issue, or at
      least link to like Joel's Carfree Times which talks about it.

      Andrew

      > I myself agree with you, Doug. I think opposition to our view will be
      > fierce, and indeed, Mayor Nagin has already excoriated Hastert for saying
      > hwat he did. However, there are dozens of reason to let the present site
      > of New Orleans revert to wetland--not least of which, along with human
      > safety, is the health of the Gul of Mexico itself, which is suffering
      > greatly from agricultural runoff; this is something a large wetlands in
      > that area would alleviate somewhat. Sinc emuch of the Gulf Coast economy
      > depends on fishing, even a partial rehabilitation of the Gulf's present
      > "dead zone" would help offset the costs of relocating New Orleans farther
      > inland, or wherever. Joel, who worked on flood issues in NO, would have
      > better suggestions than I.
      >
      > A carfree or partially-carfree city in a new location, with an extension
      > to the present French Quarter, would provide an opportunity not only to
      > rebuild a healthy community but to maximaze tourist-income potential, as
      > many have already pointed out on this list.
      >
      > Overcoming inertia, short-term thinking, and plain human stubbernness will
      > be difficult, though. But we oughta try.
      >
      > Richard
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: Doug Salzmann <doug@...>
      >
      > It is clear from recent postings that Joel, Todd and I agree that it is
      > inadvisable (to put it mildly) to expend the massive resources necessary
      > to rebuild New Orleans, if that means doing so on an "as-was, where-is"
      > basis. Such an effort would result, simply, in recreating a human-rich
      > target for the next similar disaster, which is very likely to arise within
      > a few decades, at most.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Post messages to: carfree_cities@...
      > Unsubscribe (blank message): carfree_cities-unsubscribe@...
      > Group address: http://www.egroups.com/group/carfree_cities/
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
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    • Simon Baddeley
      5 days after Katrina? I¹m trying to think what my reaction would be to a suggestion we move and rebuild a flooded London less than a week after it happened.
      Message 2 of 7 , Sep 2, 2005
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        5 days after Katrina?

        I¹m trying to think what my reaction would be to a suggestion we move and
        rebuild a flooded London less than a week after it happened. It¹s a bit like
        talking about the will before the funeral.

        There is a delicate balance between bold and sometimes ruthless creative
        policy thought and ill timed insensitive logic.

        Simon




        From: Doug Salzmann <doug@...>
        Reply-To: <carfree_cities@yahoogroups.com>
        Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 09:36:42 -0700 (PDT)
        To: Carfree Cities List <carfree_cities@yahoogroups.com>
        Subject: [carfree_cities] Only three of us... plus Denny Hastert?

        Do you all simply disagree, believing that rebuilding New Orleans in that
        bowl near the edge of the Gulf is actually a good idea?

        Is it your view that, for some reason or reasons, we should not advocate a
        relocation/redesign of the ravaged city, although that might be a good
        idea under other circumstances?

        Help me out, please. What am I missing here?



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Doug Salzmann
        ... You bet, Simon. And not a moment too soon. Unless it is diverted at the very start, it will probably be utterly impossible to to resist the
        Message 3 of 7 , Sep 2, 2005
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          On Fri, 2 Sep 2005, Simon Baddeley wrote:

          > 5 days after Katrina?

          You bet, Simon. And not a moment too soon.

          Unless it is diverted at the very start, it will probably be utterly
          impossible to to resist the emotion-driven, fuzzy-headed groundswell
          (encouraged and led by self-serving politicians and their constituents --
          the ruthless, thoughtless capitalists who can already smell the *vast*
          sums of money about to rain down on the region) that will arise insisting
          that New Orleans be rebuilt exactly as before, but behind better, safer levees.

          Now, right now, is the *only* time to try to prevent the monumental
          stupidity that is sure to result from this disaster and the craven
          manipulation of the aftermath.

          > There is a delicate balance between bold and sometimes ruthless creative
          > policy thought and ill timed insensitive logic.

          Perhaps. If so, I think you may have misjudged that balance in this case.

          I'm much more worried about wasting perhaps a hundred billion dollars
          (yes, I mean that) to place tens of thousands of poor people *back* in the
          path of near-certain disaster than I am about offending local pride.

          One can get over the latter. As is so glaringly apparent at this very
          moment, the former has a tendency to kill. Dead people aren't proud.


          -Doug





          ==================
          Doug Salzmann
          P.O. Box 1007
          Larkspur, CA 94977
        • Mike Neuman
          Americans are different than Europeans in several respects, and perhaps this is one of them. The decision on whether to rebuild the City of New Orleans on new
          Message 4 of 7 , Sep 2, 2005
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            Americans are different than Europeans in several respects, and
            perhaps this is one of them.

            The decision on whether to rebuild the City of New Orleans on new
            location versus on existing (former) location OBVIOUSLY must be made
            soon. If the decision is to rebuild on new location, buildings could
            be going up as we speak. Houses don't take that long to build anymore
            the number of homeless families will number in the tens if not
            hundreds of thousands.

            The sooner the decision is made, the better.

            As for my vote, I think they'd be crazy to rebuild the city at the
            existing location. The reason is because not only will hurricanes
            get more powerful in the future (because the sea temperatures are
            predicted to increase), but sea level (without the hurricanes) is
            also predicted to rise. Perhaps they could build temporary
            structures or design for a 10-year life, but even that would be
            risky.

            This tragedy should open up some eyes, I hope, to the impending much
            more calamitous tragedy of global warming, which threatens us all and
            succeeding generations even worse: with horrendous heat waves, more
            flooding, more drought, more disease, mass animal and plant
            extinction, and more famine (not just Africa). The current
            administration, with help from the National Weather Service, the
            Congress, Exxon, the coal industry, and the mainstream media (among
            others) have been lying to the American people on this issue for far
            too long, just to maintain the status quo and keep things running
            smooth (with Americans continuing to burn more oil in transportation,
            to buy more automobiles and SUVs, and so that power companies will
            continue to burn more coal in electricity generating power plants).
            It's time for Americans to wake up to the reality of the situation
            that they are creating for themselves and for the rest of the world.

            Sea Level Rises 1880 - 1980 (first graph):
            http://www.grida.no/climate/vital/19.htm

            Potential Sea Level Rises
            http://www.grida.no/climate/vital/24.htm

            Potential Changes in Temperature
            http://www.grida.no/climate/vital/23.htm


            --- In carfree_cities@yahoogroups.com, Simon Baddeley
            <s.j.baddeley@b...> wrote:
            > 5 days after Katrina?
            >
            > I¹m trying to think what my reaction would be to a suggestion we
            move and
            > rebuild a flooded London less than a week after it happened.
            It¹s a
            bit like
            > talking about the will before the funeral.
            >
            > There is a delicate balance between bold and sometimes ruthless
            creative
            > policy thought and ill timed insensitive logic.
          • Mike Neuman
            ... Here is a link to a proposal I wrote awhile back for the state which I live in (State of Wisconsin) to do its fair share in responding to the global
            Message 5 of 7 , Sep 3, 2005
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              mtneuman said:

              > This tragedy should open up some eyes, I hope, to the impending much
              > more calamitous tragedy of global warming, which threatens us all ...

              Here is a link to a proposal I wrote awhile back for the state which I
              live in (State of Wisconsin) to do its fair share in responding to the
              global warming threat. The mechanics of the proposal could be applied
              elsewhere.

              This is the kind of systems-level economic change that I believe is
              necessary to confront the global warming threat. Among other things,
              it would promote car-free cities by financially rewarding through
              annual monetary incentives ("rebates") individuals and families who
              can show they didn't drive at all over the year, or drove very little.
              This would be verified by using data bases for odometer mileages of
              registered vehicles, drivers license records, insurance company
              records as well as signed certificates.

              The potential rewards ($400 - $1,200/yr.) would have to be enough to
              entice middle income families to drive less; but for families at
              subsistence level - like many of those who live in the New Orleans
              area - they could be the difference between living in a "make" or a
              "break" situation.

              Conserve, NOW!
              http://f4.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/gMgZQwCnQpDofRIp8vTlF7NdYtC3P0M7ij9oqvgl7k4nwmalWU3xxRQemoWpKVbe81H6ygRpskCiA2v1BS0-4sEhBbgvr_k/ConserveNOW.pdf

              If you can't access it from the above link, you might want to consider
              joining "Climate Change Politics":

              climatechangepolitics@yahoogroups.com
              climatechangepolitics-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

              Below a link to an article posted on the "climatechangepolitics" group
              today by the group owner. Patriot Americans, please consider yourself
              forewarned.

              Mike Neuman

              Katrina comes home to roost
              By Sidney Blumenthal
              Friday September 2, 2005
              http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1561246,00.html
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