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Re: 30kph minimum vs parking restrictions

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  • Chris Radcliff
    OK, so it sounds like the cars themselves (or the drivers) would easily thwart legislative-only attempts to slow traffic. If it takes all that education,
    Message 1 of 2 , May 6, 2005
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      OK, so it sounds like the cars themselves (or the drivers) would
      easily thwart legislative-only attempts to slow traffic. If it takes
      all that education, effort, and money just to slow cars to 30kph, it
      makes more sense to go straight to the goal, a carfree city. Thanks
      for helping me work that one out.

      The parking ideas sound more promising. In that case, it's easier to
      see the steps required: start by removing the parking requirements on
      new development, then require permits for all that "free" on-street
      parking (with permit fees and fines dedicated to the mass-transit
      fund), and eventually restrict the permits to "essential" vehicles
      like delivery trucks in areas where passenger transit has been built
      up.

      This is similar to the methods used by UC San Diego -- practically a
      city in itself, with tens of thousands of residents -- to discourage
      cars. Their goal is parking management instead of carfree, but to me
      it seems more a matter of degree.

      Again, the solution can be unpopular, but it needs to be something
      that could reasonably be enforced without huge infrastructure
      requirements. Changing the city council's collective mind is much
      easier if there isn't a big price tag.

      Any comments? Thanks for helping me hash these things out. It gives
      me something to think about when I'm out dodging cars.

      Thanks,
      ~chris

      > Converting to Tempo 30 streets, with or without signs, humps,
      > campaign is clearly not enough.
      > 30 is an appropiate speed in built up areas, but even without
      > touching the accelerator, cars will go faster.
      > There are these remedies
      > 1. ISA
      > 2. Lane narrowing and/or meandering.
      > 3. NEVs (& various cycles of course), for inner city trips. In
      > those, 30 km/h is a proper speed.
      > Still not sure which is best. Both cost a lot (in time-to-achieve and
      > money, although one can achieve a lot with (2:) strategic placement
      > of blocks or cones that make a lane 2.0 m wide, before crossroads and
      > highspeed stretches).
      >
    • Richard Risemberg
      ... Most ideas are notoriously unpopular, or at least derided, when they are first proposed, from Galileo s cosmology to, in fact, cars themselves, to the
      Message 2 of 2 , May 6, 2005
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        On May 6, 2005, at 6:52 AM, Chris Radcliff wrote:
        >
        > Again, the solution can be unpopular, but it needs to be something
        > that could reasonably be enforced without huge infrastructure
        > requirements. Changing the city council's collective mind is much
        > easier if there isn't a big price tag.
        >
        Most ideas are notoriously unpopular, or at least derided, when they
        are first proposed, from Galileo's cosmology to, in fact, cars
        themselves, to the Internet, to the Beatles (an early record executive
        once said, in reference to them, that "No one wants to hear guitar
        bands").

        The only "solution" I can think of that was instantly and universally
        popular was the bicycle!

        Parking management will be an essential part of city planning even in
        places like Detroit and Los Angeles soon, I suspect. Simply because
        there's little choice. parking imposes too many costs, financial,
        social, and physical--but it's only the financial argument that will
        impress the moral Neanderthals of the Right. (Note to conservatives on
        this list: I know there are many *actual* compassionate and moral
        conservatives around--but today the Right's show is being run by loud
        posturing fascists and a large population of folks who are looking for
        a leader that'll make them feel good about themselves. Cf my article
        on "The Appeal of Fascism,"
        http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Front_Page/FJ19Aa02.html.)

        Sorry for the digression, but I get so tired of being lied to on
        subsidy issues by pseudo-cons....

        My 1ยข worth.

        Richard
        --
        Richard Risemberg
        http://www.rickrise.com
        http://www.newcolonist.com
        http://www.living-room.org
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