Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

RE: [carfree_cities] RE: Visualize Car-Free Illichville.

Expand Messages
  • J.H. Crawford
    ... The Federal Railroad Administration will not allow mixed light-rail and freight operation unless the two are fully separated either in distance or in time.
    Message 1 of 15 , Oct 17, 2004
    • 0 Attachment
      >You're correct about the SIRT. I wasn't clear earlier and PE being Pacific
      >Electric, was that these extensive transit operations were subsidiaries of
      >railroads. SIRT was part of the Baltimore & Ohio, PE was part of Southern
      >Pacific and also handled freight trains.
      >
      >San Diego or even San Pedro are good examples, trolleys during the day,
      >freight trains at night. Although it's possible to run both at the same
      >time.

      The Federal Railroad Administration will not allow mixed light-rail
      and freight operation unless the two are fully separated either
      in distance or in time. It may be that SIRT and PE were heavy-rail
      vehicles, but this is an unnecessary complication for what is in
      practice a light-rail type of operation.

      (The difference between heavy rail and light rail is mainly in
      the collision resistance of the vehicles, with heavy-rail vehicles
      built to fare reasonably well in collisions with other heavy-rail
      equipment.)

      Germany has been experimenting with some mixed operations. Clearly,
      there is a risk involved, but if the operation is well thought out,
      it ought to be acceptable.

      Regards,


      -- ### --

      J.H. Crawford Carfree Cities
      mailbox@... http://www.carfree.com
    • Richard Risemberg
      ... I have little faith that it would work well in the Land of the Cheap and the Home of the Knave...we have a cult of operational sloppiness here in the US,
      Message 2 of 15 , Oct 17, 2004
      • 0 Attachment
        J.H. Crawford wrote:
        > (The difference between heavy rail and light rail is mainly in
        > the collision resistance of the vehicles, with heavy-rail vehicles
        > built to fare reasonably well in collisions with other heavy-rail
        > equipment.)
        >
        > Germany has been experimenting with some mixed operations. Clearly,
        > there is a risk involved, but if the operation is well thought out,
        > it ought to be acceptable.
        I have little faith that it would work well in the Land of the Cheap and
        the Home of the Knave...we have a cult of operational sloppiness here in
        the US, and of sloughing off on maintenance and staff to increase
        shareholder profits. The "rugged individual" myth translates in reality
        into an I'll-get-mine-fuck-you attitude, and so I'd rather *not* be
        sharing my trolley tracks with 6,000 horsepower GE line engines pulling
        10,000 tons of Toyotas across the country.

        Germany and Japan have cults of operational precision and try to do the
        job right even if it might cut profits...even Japan runs its freight at
        night when there are few passenger trains about, and bullet trains have
        dedicated ROW. We're slowly heading towards a bullet-train system ehre
        in California, but I sure as hell hope Tutor-Saliba doesn't get the
        job...as the subway they overcharged us on requires almost continuous
        track maintenance...they probably stand a good chance though.

        Sorry for the gloom, it's been a really bad two weeks.

        Richard
        --
        Richard Risemberg
        http://www.living-room.org
        http://www.newcolonist.com

        "I like liberals. They gave us the five-day workweek; ended child labor;
        invented unemployment insurance, Social Security and Medicare; and led
        us, despite fierce opposition from 'America First' pseudo-patriots on
        the political right, to victory over fascism in World War II. Liberals
        also ended racial segregation and gave women the vote."

        Robert Scheer
      • Andrew Dawson
        ... Valid point, in North America corparate/political leaders are often not very acountable even to shareholders and not to mention voters.
        Message 3 of 15 , Oct 17, 2004
        • 0 Attachment
          Richard Risemberg wrote:
          > > (The difference between heavy rail and light rail is mainly in
          > > the collision resistance of the vehicles, with heavy-rail vehicles
          > > built to fare reasonably well in collisions with other heavy-rail
          > > equipment.)
          > >
          > > Germany has been experimenting with some mixed operations. Clearly,
          > > there is a risk involved, but if the operation is well thought out,
          > > it ought to be acceptable.
          >I have little faith that it would work well in the Land of the Cheap and
          >the Home of the Knave...we have a cult of operational sloppiness here in
          >the US, and of sloughing off on maintenance and staff to increase
          >shareholder profits.

          Valid point, in North America corparate/political leaders are often not very
          acountable even to shareholders and not to mention voters.
          http://www.dot.gov/DOTagencies.htm

          >The "rugged individual" myth translates in reality
          >into an I'll-get-mine-fuck-you attitude, and so I'd rather *not* be
          >sharing my trolley tracks with 6,000 horsepower GE line engines pulling
          >10,000 tons of Toyotas across the country.

          I've been in the cab many times and I can't say I have ever seen that kind
          of attitude amongst engineers or motormen. I've seen this "up yours"
          mentality on highways though.

          Till later, Andrew Dawson

          _________________________________________________________________
          Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE!
          hthttp://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
        • Richard Risemberg
          ... Sorry, didn t mean to imply that engine-drivers were that way--I meant that a studied lack of maintenance could result in a collision, which would be most
          Message 4 of 15 , Oct 17, 2004
          • 0 Attachment
            Andrew Dawson wrote:
            > Richard Risemberg wrote:

            >
            >>The "rugged individual" myth translates in reality
            >>into an I'll-get-mine-fuck-you attitude, and so I'd rather *not* be
            >>sharing my trolley tracks with 6,000 horsepower GE line engines pulling
            >>10,000 tons of Toyotas across the country.
            >
            >
            > I've been in the cab many times and I can't say I have ever seen that kind
            > of attitude amongst engineers or motormen. I've seen this "up yours"
            > mentality on highways though.
            Sorry, didn't mean to imply that engine-drivers were that way--I meant
            that a studied lack of maintenance could result in a collision, which
            would be most unfortunate for the occupants of the lighter vehicle.

            Sloppy track maintenance seems to be to blame for most RR wrecks--there
            was one just today in LA, and I saw one with my own eyes a few years
            ago, fortunately a minor accident. And there was the train that someone
            sent down the long grade west of Summit with an incorrect weight listing
            on the manifest, resulting in a horrible 90mph derailment that destroyed
            several houses....

            My apologies to the hand on the throttle!

            Richard
            --
            Richard Risemberg
            http://www.living-room.org
            http://www.newcolonist.com

            "I like liberals. They gave us the five-day workweek; ended child labor;
            invented unemployment insurance, Social Security and Medicare; and led
            us, despite fierce opposition from 'America First' pseudo-patriots on
            the political right, to victory over fascism in World War II. Liberals
            also ended racial segregation and gave women the vote."

            Robert Scheer
          • CEB
            What would be source of juice (electricity) for train? In relation to the On the train Towards the Future! project under development, I am investigating the
            Message 5 of 15 , Oct 18, 2004
            • 0 Attachment
              What would be source of juice (electricity) for train? In relation to the "On the train Towards the Future!" project under development, I am investigating the negatives of rail-guided mobility. One of them is that in relation to future high-speed rail network in the Czech Republic, a planner of some sort said that this network would be dependent on excess electric supply and he was talking about our controversial Temelin nuclear power plant working as planned...

              Todd

              ______________________________________________________________
              > Od: "Andrew Dawson" <m82a1_dawson@...>
              > Komu: carfree_cities@yahoogroups.com
              > Datum: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 03:16:01 +0000
              > Předmět: RE: [carfree_cities] RE: Visualize Car-Free Illichville.
              >
              >
              > Ken Avidor wrote:
              > >I like the map, though I have a question Mr.Avidor is the "Railink" a
              > >commuter rail like type system or some thing else? If it is I guess it
              > >would
              > >be possible to haul freight on the line with a connection to the outside
              > >world in a SIRT/PE way perhaps.
              > >
              > >Sorry for the nit picking, Andrew Dawson
              > >------------
              > >Nit picking is welcome!
              > >
              > >Roberta says the rail link would be an electric line, mainly for trolleys
              > >but also
              > >for light freight such as packages, mail and goods unavailable in
              > >Illichville.
              >
              > The "Express" business in other words.
              > http://www.dcnrhs.org/railway_express_agency.htm
              >
              > >Is SIRT the Staten Island Rapid Transit?
              >
              > You're correct about the SIRT. I wasn't clear earlier and PE being Pacific
              > Electric, was that these extensive transit operations were subsidiaries of
              > railroads. SIRT was part of the Baltimore & Ohio, PE was part of Southern
              > Pacific and also handled freight trains.
              >
              > San Diego or even San Pedro are good examples, trolleys during the day,
              > freight trains at night. Although it's possible to run both at the same
              > time.
              >
              > http://www.transit-rider.com/ca.sandiego/sdtrolley.cfm?id=south2
              > http://www.transit-rider.com/viewer.cfm?FrameID=286
              > http://www.transit-rider.com/viewer.cfm?FrameID=221
              > http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?15203
              > http://www.railwaypreservation.com/page8.html
              >
              > Lines or in this case rail lines can blurr and that's okay. Andrew Dawson
              >
              > _________________________________________________________________
              > Take advantage of powerful junk e-mail filters built on patented MicrosoftŽ
              > SmartScreen Technology.
              > http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines
              > Start enjoying all the benefits of MSNŽ Premium right now and get the
              > first two months FREE*.
              >
              >
              >
              > To Post a message, send it to: carfree_cities@...
              > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: carfree_cities-unsubscribe@...
              > Group address: http://www.egroups.com/group/carfree_cities/
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
            • J.H. Crawford
              ... Any energy source can be used to power trains, one way or another. Since they are the most efficient mechanically propelled vehicles, you come out ahead.
              Message 6 of 15 , Oct 18, 2004
              • 0 Attachment
                Todd said:

                >What would be source of juice (electricity) for train? In relation to the
                >"On the train Towards the Future!" project under development, I am
                >investigating the negatives of rail-guided mobility. One of them is that in
                >relation to future high-speed rail network in the Czech Republic, a planner
                >of some sort said that this network would be dependent on excess electric
                >supply and he was talking about our controversial Temelin nuclear power
                >plant working as planned...

                Any energy source can be used to power trains, one way or another.
                Since they are the most efficient mechanically propelled vehicles,
                you come out ahead. It doesn't matter if it's wind, solar, geothermal,
                used fryer oil, or nukes, you get the most for your energy by putting
                it into a train.

                Regards,


                -- ### --

                J.H. Crawford Carfree Cities
                mailbox@... http://www.carfree.com
              • CEB
                YES!!!! Of course, I meant what would be the source in Illichville? Interestingly, as you may know Germany plans to close all of its nuclear plants in 2020 or
                Message 7 of 15 , Oct 18, 2004
                • 0 Attachment
                  YES!!!! Of course, I meant what would be the source in Illichville?

                  Interestingly, as you may know Germany plans to close all of its nuclear plants in 2020 or so, or a little later? I am wondering what their source will be for all the electric trains they plan. Not sure if wind energy will do it. People cynically say that they will just import it from France or Czech.

                  I have asked someone at Friends of the Earth in Germany to explain.

                  Todd
                  ______________________________________________________________
                  > Od: "J.H. Crawford" <mailbox@...>
                  > Komu: carfree_cities@yahoogroups.com
                  > Datum: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 21:03:53 +0000
                  > Předmět: RE: [carfree_cities] RE: Visualize Car-Free Illichville.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Todd said:
                  >
                  > >What would be source of juice (electricity) for train? In relation to the
                  > >"On the train Towards the Future!" project under development, I am
                  > >investigating the negatives of rail-guided mobility. One of them is that in
                  > >relation to future high-speed rail network in the Czech Republic, a planner
                  > >of some sort said that this network would be dependent on excess electric
                  > >supply and he was talking about our controversial Temelin nuclear power
                  > >plant working as planned...
                  >
                  > Any energy source can be used to power trains, one way or another.
                  > Since they are the most efficient mechanically propelled vehicles,
                  > you come out ahead. It doesn't matter if it's wind, solar, geothermal,
                  > used fryer oil, or nukes, you get the most for your energy by putting
                  > it into a train.
                  >
                  > Regards,
                  >
                  >
                  > -- ### --
                  >
                  > J.H. Crawford Carfree Cities
                  > mailbox@... http://www.carfree.com
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > To Post a message, send it to: carfree_cities@...
                  > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: carfree_cities-unsubscribe@...
                  > Group address: http://www.egroups.com/group/carfree_cities/
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • Andrew Dawson
                  ... Negligence isn t good, be it corporate or government. ... Now this is one place where there the FRA or US DOT(Transport Canada for me) should be stepping
                  Message 8 of 15 , Oct 18, 2004
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Richard Risemberg wrote:
                    > > I've been in the cab many times and I can't say I have ever seen that
                    >kind
                    > > of attitude amongst engineers or motormen. I've seen this "up yours"
                    > > mentality on highways though.
                    >Sorry, didn't mean to imply that engine-drivers were that way--I meant
                    >that a studied lack of maintenance could result in a collision, which
                    >would be most unfortunate for the occupants of the lighter vehicle.

                    Negligence isn't good, be it corporate or government.

                    >Sloppy track maintenance seems to be to blame for most RR wrecks--there
                    >was one just today in LA, and I saw one with my own eyes a few years
                    >ago, fortunately a minor accident. And there was the train that someone
                    >sent down the long grade west of Summit with an incorrect weight listing
                    >on the manifest, resulting in a horrible 90mph derailment that destroyed
                    >several houses....

                    Now this is one place where there the FRA or US DOT(Transport Canada for me)
                    should be stepping in and putting money back into the infrastructure. As
                    oppose to currently doing nothing and letting track decay/get ripped up.

                    Till later, Andrew Dawson

                    _________________________________________________________________
                    Scan and help eliminate destructive viruses from your inbound and outbound
                    e-mail and attachments.
                    http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines
                    Start enjoying all the benefits of MSN� Premium right now and get the
                    first two months FREE*.
                  • Patrick McDonough
                    North Carolina is making good headway here, and is fishing for a federal partner to fulfill its plans. So far, the incrementalist approach is working pretty
                    Message 9 of 15 , Oct 18, 2004
                    • 0 Attachment
                      North Carolina is making good headway here, and is fishing for a federal
                      partner to fulfill its plans. So far, the incrementalist approach is
                      working pretty well here.

                      Check out NC's mainline upgrade program:
                      http://www.bytrain.org/track/

                      Patrick McDonough

                      >
                      >Now this is one place where there the FRA or US DOT(Transport Canada for me)
                      >should be stepping in and putting money back into the infrastructure. As
                      >oppose to currently doing nothing and letting track decay/get ripped up.
                      >
                      >Till later, Andrew Dawson
                      >
                      >_________________________________________________________________
                      >
                      >
                    • Patrick McDonough
                      North Carolina is making good headway here, and is fishing for a federal partner to fulfill its plans. So far, the incrementalist approach is working pretty
                      Message 10 of 15 , Oct 18, 2004
                      • 0 Attachment
                        North Carolina is making good headway here, and is fishing for a federal
                        partner to fulfill its plans. So far, the incrementalist approach is
                        working pretty well here.

                        Check out NC's mainline upgrade program:
                        http://www.bytrain.org/track/

                        Patrick McDonough

                        >
                        >Now this is one place where there the FRA or US DOT(Transport Canada for me)
                        >should be stepping in and putting money back into the infrastructure. As
                        >oppose to currently doing nothing and letting track decay/get ripped up.
                        >
                        >Till later, Andrew Dawson
                        >
                        >_________________________________________________________________
                        >
                        >
                      • Andrew Dawson
                        ... I ve read many good things about North Carolina and its DOT, but it s rare to see a pro-active state. Also it helps that the NCRR is owned by the state and
                        Message 11 of 15 , Oct 18, 2004
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Patrick McDonough wrote:
                          >North Carolina is making good headway here, and is fishing for a federal
                          >partner to fulfill its plans. So far, the incrementalist approach is
                          >working pretty well here.
                          >
                          >Check out NC's mainline upgrade program:
                          >http://www.bytrain.org/track/

                          I've read many good things about North Carolina and its DOT, but it's rare
                          to see a pro-active state.
                          Also it helps that the NCRR is owned by the state and leased to NS, so they
                          have control in a major stake in the states transportation well being.

                          Still what is needed is more action on a federal level. Bring back the
                          United States Railroad Administration in some form perhaps?

                          Till later, Andrew Dawson

                          _________________________________________________________________
                          Take advantage of powerful junk e-mail filters built on patented Microsoft�
                          SmartScreen Technology.
                          http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines
                          Start enjoying all the benefits of MSN� Premium right now and get the
                          first two months FREE*.
                        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.