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Visualize Car-Free Illichville.

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  • kenavidor
    A nice break from all the gloom and doom ... Roberta s new painting is a map of car-free Illichville and neighboring villages:
    Message 1 of 15 , Oct 14, 2004
      A nice break from all the gloom and doom ...

      Roberta's new painting is a map of car-free Illichville and
      neighboring
      villages:

      http://www.roadkillbill.com/I-BigMap.html

      All aboard...next stop is Illichville!

      Avidor
      Minneapolis
    • Andrew Dawson
      I like the map, though I have a question Mr.Avidor is the Railink a commuter rail like type system or some thing else? If it is I guess it would be possible
      Message 2 of 15 , Oct 14, 2004
        I like the map, though I have a question Mr.Avidor is the "Railink" a
        commuter rail like type system or some thing else? If it is I guess it would
        be possible to haul freight on the line with a connection to the outside
        world in a SIRT/PE way perhaps.

        Sorry for the nit picking, Andrew Dawson


        >From: Ken Avidor
        >A nice break from all the gloom and doom ...
        >
        >Roberta's new painting is a map of car-free Illichville and
        >neighboring
        >villages:
        >
        >http://www.roadkillbill.com/I-BigMap.html
        >
        >All aboard...next stop is Illichville!
        >
        >Avidor
        >Minneapolis

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      • kenavidor
        Andrew Dawson said: I like the map, though I have a question Mr.Avidor is the Railink a commuter rail like type system or some thing else? If it is I guess
        Message 3 of 15 , Oct 15, 2004
          Andrew Dawson said:

          I like the map, though I have a question Mr.Avidor is the "Railink" a
          commuter rail like type system or some thing else? If it is I guess it would
          be possible to haul freight on the line with a connection to the outside
          world in a SIRT/PE way perhaps.

          Sorry for the nit picking, Andrew Dawson
          ------------
          Nit picking is welcome!

          Roberta says the rail link would be an electric line, mainly for trolleys but also
          for light freight such as packages, mail and goods unavailable in Illichville.

          Is SIRT the Staten Island Rapid Transit?

          Avidor
          Minneapolis
        • Andrew Dawson
          ... The Express business in other words. http://www.dcnrhs.org/railway_express_agency.htm ... You re correct about the SIRT. I wasn t clear earlier and PE
          Message 4 of 15 , Oct 16, 2004
            Ken Avidor wrote:
            >I like the map, though I have a question Mr.Avidor is the "Railink" a
            >commuter rail like type system or some thing else? If it is I guess it
            >would
            >be possible to haul freight on the line with a connection to the outside
            >world in a SIRT/PE way perhaps.
            >
            >Sorry for the nit picking, Andrew Dawson
            >------------
            >Nit picking is welcome!
            >
            >Roberta says the rail link would be an electric line, mainly for trolleys
            >but also
            >for light freight such as packages, mail and goods unavailable in
            >Illichville.

            The "Express" business in other words.
            http://www.dcnrhs.org/railway_express_agency.htm

            >Is SIRT the Staten Island Rapid Transit?

            You're correct about the SIRT. I wasn't clear earlier and PE being Pacific
            Electric, was that these extensive transit operations were subsidiaries of
            railroads. SIRT was part of the Baltimore & Ohio, PE was part of Southern
            Pacific and also handled freight trains.

            San Diego or even San Pedro are good examples, trolleys during the day,
            freight trains at night. Although it's possible to run both at the same
            time.

            http://www.transit-rider.com/ca.sandiego/sdtrolley.cfm?id=south2
            http://www.transit-rider.com/viewer.cfm?FrameID=286
            http://www.transit-rider.com/viewer.cfm?FrameID=221
            http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?15203
            http://www.railwaypreservation.com/page8.html

            Lines or in this case rail lines can blurr and that's okay. Andrew Dawson

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          • J.H. Crawford
            ... The Federal Railroad Administration will not allow mixed light-rail and freight operation unless the two are fully separated either in distance or in time.
            Message 5 of 15 , Oct 17, 2004
              >You're correct about the SIRT. I wasn't clear earlier and PE being Pacific
              >Electric, was that these extensive transit operations were subsidiaries of
              >railroads. SIRT was part of the Baltimore & Ohio, PE was part of Southern
              >Pacific and also handled freight trains.
              >
              >San Diego or even San Pedro are good examples, trolleys during the day,
              >freight trains at night. Although it's possible to run both at the same
              >time.

              The Federal Railroad Administration will not allow mixed light-rail
              and freight operation unless the two are fully separated either
              in distance or in time. It may be that SIRT and PE were heavy-rail
              vehicles, but this is an unnecessary complication for what is in
              practice a light-rail type of operation.

              (The difference between heavy rail and light rail is mainly in
              the collision resistance of the vehicles, with heavy-rail vehicles
              built to fare reasonably well in collisions with other heavy-rail
              equipment.)

              Germany has been experimenting with some mixed operations. Clearly,
              there is a risk involved, but if the operation is well thought out,
              it ought to be acceptable.

              Regards,


              -- ### --

              J.H. Crawford Carfree Cities
              mailbox@... http://www.carfree.com
            • Richard Risemberg
              ... I have little faith that it would work well in the Land of the Cheap and the Home of the Knave...we have a cult of operational sloppiness here in the US,
              Message 6 of 15 , Oct 17, 2004
                J.H. Crawford wrote:
                > (The difference between heavy rail and light rail is mainly in
                > the collision resistance of the vehicles, with heavy-rail vehicles
                > built to fare reasonably well in collisions with other heavy-rail
                > equipment.)
                >
                > Germany has been experimenting with some mixed operations. Clearly,
                > there is a risk involved, but if the operation is well thought out,
                > it ought to be acceptable.
                I have little faith that it would work well in the Land of the Cheap and
                the Home of the Knave...we have a cult of operational sloppiness here in
                the US, and of sloughing off on maintenance and staff to increase
                shareholder profits. The "rugged individual" myth translates in reality
                into an I'll-get-mine-fuck-you attitude, and so I'd rather *not* be
                sharing my trolley tracks with 6,000 horsepower GE line engines pulling
                10,000 tons of Toyotas across the country.

                Germany and Japan have cults of operational precision and try to do the
                job right even if it might cut profits...even Japan runs its freight at
                night when there are few passenger trains about, and bullet trains have
                dedicated ROW. We're slowly heading towards a bullet-train system ehre
                in California, but I sure as hell hope Tutor-Saliba doesn't get the
                job...as the subway they overcharged us on requires almost continuous
                track maintenance...they probably stand a good chance though.

                Sorry for the gloom, it's been a really bad two weeks.

                Richard
                --
                Richard Risemberg
                http://www.living-room.org
                http://www.newcolonist.com

                "I like liberals. They gave us the five-day workweek; ended child labor;
                invented unemployment insurance, Social Security and Medicare; and led
                us, despite fierce opposition from 'America First' pseudo-patriots on
                the political right, to victory over fascism in World War II. Liberals
                also ended racial segregation and gave women the vote."

                Robert Scheer
              • Andrew Dawson
                ... Valid point, in North America corparate/political leaders are often not very acountable even to shareholders and not to mention voters.
                Message 7 of 15 , Oct 17, 2004
                  Richard Risemberg wrote:
                  > > (The difference between heavy rail and light rail is mainly in
                  > > the collision resistance of the vehicles, with heavy-rail vehicles
                  > > built to fare reasonably well in collisions with other heavy-rail
                  > > equipment.)
                  > >
                  > > Germany has been experimenting with some mixed operations. Clearly,
                  > > there is a risk involved, but if the operation is well thought out,
                  > > it ought to be acceptable.
                  >I have little faith that it would work well in the Land of the Cheap and
                  >the Home of the Knave...we have a cult of operational sloppiness here in
                  >the US, and of sloughing off on maintenance and staff to increase
                  >shareholder profits.

                  Valid point, in North America corparate/political leaders are often not very
                  acountable even to shareholders and not to mention voters.
                  http://www.dot.gov/DOTagencies.htm

                  >The "rugged individual" myth translates in reality
                  >into an I'll-get-mine-fuck-you attitude, and so I'd rather *not* be
                  >sharing my trolley tracks with 6,000 horsepower GE line engines pulling
                  >10,000 tons of Toyotas across the country.

                  I've been in the cab many times and I can't say I have ever seen that kind
                  of attitude amongst engineers or motormen. I've seen this "up yours"
                  mentality on highways though.

                  Till later, Andrew Dawson

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                • Richard Risemberg
                  ... Sorry, didn t mean to imply that engine-drivers were that way--I meant that a studied lack of maintenance could result in a collision, which would be most
                  Message 8 of 15 , Oct 17, 2004
                    Andrew Dawson wrote:
                    > Richard Risemberg wrote:

                    >
                    >>The "rugged individual" myth translates in reality
                    >>into an I'll-get-mine-fuck-you attitude, and so I'd rather *not* be
                    >>sharing my trolley tracks with 6,000 horsepower GE line engines pulling
                    >>10,000 tons of Toyotas across the country.
                    >
                    >
                    > I've been in the cab many times and I can't say I have ever seen that kind
                    > of attitude amongst engineers or motormen. I've seen this "up yours"
                    > mentality on highways though.
                    Sorry, didn't mean to imply that engine-drivers were that way--I meant
                    that a studied lack of maintenance could result in a collision, which
                    would be most unfortunate for the occupants of the lighter vehicle.

                    Sloppy track maintenance seems to be to blame for most RR wrecks--there
                    was one just today in LA, and I saw one with my own eyes a few years
                    ago, fortunately a minor accident. And there was the train that someone
                    sent down the long grade west of Summit with an incorrect weight listing
                    on the manifest, resulting in a horrible 90mph derailment that destroyed
                    several houses....

                    My apologies to the hand on the throttle!

                    Richard
                    --
                    Richard Risemberg
                    http://www.living-room.org
                    http://www.newcolonist.com

                    "I like liberals. They gave us the five-day workweek; ended child labor;
                    invented unemployment insurance, Social Security and Medicare; and led
                    us, despite fierce opposition from 'America First' pseudo-patriots on
                    the political right, to victory over fascism in World War II. Liberals
                    also ended racial segregation and gave women the vote."

                    Robert Scheer
                  • CEB
                    What would be source of juice (electricity) for train? In relation to the On the train Towards the Future! project under development, I am investigating the
                    Message 9 of 15 , Oct 18, 2004
                      What would be source of juice (electricity) for train? In relation to the "On the train Towards the Future!" project under development, I am investigating the negatives of rail-guided mobility. One of them is that in relation to future high-speed rail network in the Czech Republic, a planner of some sort said that this network would be dependent on excess electric supply and he was talking about our controversial Temelin nuclear power plant working as planned...

                      Todd

                      ______________________________________________________________
                      > Od: "Andrew Dawson" <m82a1_dawson@...>
                      > Komu: carfree_cities@yahoogroups.com
                      > Datum: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 03:16:01 +0000
                      > Předmět: RE: [carfree_cities] RE: Visualize Car-Free Illichville.
                      >
                      >
                      > Ken Avidor wrote:
                      > >I like the map, though I have a question Mr.Avidor is the "Railink" a
                      > >commuter rail like type system or some thing else? If it is I guess it
                      > >would
                      > >be possible to haul freight on the line with a connection to the outside
                      > >world in a SIRT/PE way perhaps.
                      > >
                      > >Sorry for the nit picking, Andrew Dawson
                      > >------------
                      > >Nit picking is welcome!
                      > >
                      > >Roberta says the rail link would be an electric line, mainly for trolleys
                      > >but also
                      > >for light freight such as packages, mail and goods unavailable in
                      > >Illichville.
                      >
                      > The "Express" business in other words.
                      > http://www.dcnrhs.org/railway_express_agency.htm
                      >
                      > >Is SIRT the Staten Island Rapid Transit?
                      >
                      > You're correct about the SIRT. I wasn't clear earlier and PE being Pacific
                      > Electric, was that these extensive transit operations were subsidiaries of
                      > railroads. SIRT was part of the Baltimore & Ohio, PE was part of Southern
                      > Pacific and also handled freight trains.
                      >
                      > San Diego or even San Pedro are good examples, trolleys during the day,
                      > freight trains at night. Although it's possible to run both at the same
                      > time.
                      >
                      > http://www.transit-rider.com/ca.sandiego/sdtrolley.cfm?id=south2
                      > http://www.transit-rider.com/viewer.cfm?FrameID=286
                      > http://www.transit-rider.com/viewer.cfm?FrameID=221
                      > http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?15203
                      > http://www.railwaypreservation.com/page8.html
                      >
                      > Lines or in this case rail lines can blurr and that's okay. Andrew Dawson
                      >
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                    • J.H. Crawford
                      ... Any energy source can be used to power trains, one way or another. Since they are the most efficient mechanically propelled vehicles, you come out ahead.
                      Message 10 of 15 , Oct 18, 2004
                        Todd said:

                        >What would be source of juice (electricity) for train? In relation to the
                        >"On the train Towards the Future!" project under development, I am
                        >investigating the negatives of rail-guided mobility. One of them is that in
                        >relation to future high-speed rail network in the Czech Republic, a planner
                        >of some sort said that this network would be dependent on excess electric
                        >supply and he was talking about our controversial Temelin nuclear power
                        >plant working as planned...

                        Any energy source can be used to power trains, one way or another.
                        Since they are the most efficient mechanically propelled vehicles,
                        you come out ahead. It doesn't matter if it's wind, solar, geothermal,
                        used fryer oil, or nukes, you get the most for your energy by putting
                        it into a train.

                        Regards,


                        -- ### --

                        J.H. Crawford Carfree Cities
                        mailbox@... http://www.carfree.com
                      • CEB
                        YES!!!! Of course, I meant what would be the source in Illichville? Interestingly, as you may know Germany plans to close all of its nuclear plants in 2020 or
                        Message 11 of 15 , Oct 18, 2004
                          YES!!!! Of course, I meant what would be the source in Illichville?

                          Interestingly, as you may know Germany plans to close all of its nuclear plants in 2020 or so, or a little later? I am wondering what their source will be for all the electric trains they plan. Not sure if wind energy will do it. People cynically say that they will just import it from France or Czech.

                          I have asked someone at Friends of the Earth in Germany to explain.

                          Todd
                          ______________________________________________________________
                          > Od: "J.H. Crawford" <mailbox@...>
                          > Komu: carfree_cities@yahoogroups.com
                          > Datum: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 21:03:53 +0000
                          > Předmět: RE: [carfree_cities] RE: Visualize Car-Free Illichville.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Todd said:
                          >
                          > >What would be source of juice (electricity) for train? In relation to the
                          > >"On the train Towards the Future!" project under development, I am
                          > >investigating the negatives of rail-guided mobility. One of them is that in
                          > >relation to future high-speed rail network in the Czech Republic, a planner
                          > >of some sort said that this network would be dependent on excess electric
                          > >supply and he was talking about our controversial Temelin nuclear power
                          > >plant working as planned...
                          >
                          > Any energy source can be used to power trains, one way or another.
                          > Since they are the most efficient mechanically propelled vehicles,
                          > you come out ahead. It doesn't matter if it's wind, solar, geothermal,
                          > used fryer oil, or nukes, you get the most for your energy by putting
                          > it into a train.
                          >
                          > Regards,
                          >
                          >
                          > -- ### --
                          >
                          > J.H. Crawford Carfree Cities
                          > mailbox@... http://www.carfree.com
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > To Post a message, send it to: carfree_cities@...
                          > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: carfree_cities-unsubscribe@...
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                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                        • Andrew Dawson
                          ... Negligence isn t good, be it corporate or government. ... Now this is one place where there the FRA or US DOT(Transport Canada for me) should be stepping
                          Message 12 of 15 , Oct 18, 2004
                            Richard Risemberg wrote:
                            > > I've been in the cab many times and I can't say I have ever seen that
                            >kind
                            > > of attitude amongst engineers or motormen. I've seen this "up yours"
                            > > mentality on highways though.
                            >Sorry, didn't mean to imply that engine-drivers were that way--I meant
                            >that a studied lack of maintenance could result in a collision, which
                            >would be most unfortunate for the occupants of the lighter vehicle.

                            Negligence isn't good, be it corporate or government.

                            >Sloppy track maintenance seems to be to blame for most RR wrecks--there
                            >was one just today in LA, and I saw one with my own eyes a few years
                            >ago, fortunately a minor accident. And there was the train that someone
                            >sent down the long grade west of Summit with an incorrect weight listing
                            >on the manifest, resulting in a horrible 90mph derailment that destroyed
                            >several houses....

                            Now this is one place where there the FRA or US DOT(Transport Canada for me)
                            should be stepping in and putting money back into the infrastructure. As
                            oppose to currently doing nothing and letting track decay/get ripped up.

                            Till later, Andrew Dawson

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                          • Patrick McDonough
                            North Carolina is making good headway here, and is fishing for a federal partner to fulfill its plans. So far, the incrementalist approach is working pretty
                            Message 13 of 15 , Oct 18, 2004
                              North Carolina is making good headway here, and is fishing for a federal
                              partner to fulfill its plans. So far, the incrementalist approach is
                              working pretty well here.

                              Check out NC's mainline upgrade program:
                              http://www.bytrain.org/track/

                              Patrick McDonough

                              >
                              >Now this is one place where there the FRA or US DOT(Transport Canada for me)
                              >should be stepping in and putting money back into the infrastructure. As
                              >oppose to currently doing nothing and letting track decay/get ripped up.
                              >
                              >Till later, Andrew Dawson
                              >
                              >_________________________________________________________________
                              >
                              >
                            • Patrick McDonough
                              North Carolina is making good headway here, and is fishing for a federal partner to fulfill its plans. So far, the incrementalist approach is working pretty
                              Message 14 of 15 , Oct 18, 2004
                                North Carolina is making good headway here, and is fishing for a federal
                                partner to fulfill its plans. So far, the incrementalist approach is
                                working pretty well here.

                                Check out NC's mainline upgrade program:
                                http://www.bytrain.org/track/

                                Patrick McDonough

                                >
                                >Now this is one place where there the FRA or US DOT(Transport Canada for me)
                                >should be stepping in and putting money back into the infrastructure. As
                                >oppose to currently doing nothing and letting track decay/get ripped up.
                                >
                                >Till later, Andrew Dawson
                                >
                                >_________________________________________________________________
                                >
                                >
                              • Andrew Dawson
                                ... I ve read many good things about North Carolina and its DOT, but it s rare to see a pro-active state. Also it helps that the NCRR is owned by the state and
                                Message 15 of 15 , Oct 18, 2004
                                  Patrick McDonough wrote:
                                  >North Carolina is making good headway here, and is fishing for a federal
                                  >partner to fulfill its plans. So far, the incrementalist approach is
                                  >working pretty well here.
                                  >
                                  >Check out NC's mainline upgrade program:
                                  >http://www.bytrain.org/track/

                                  I've read many good things about North Carolina and its DOT, but it's rare
                                  to see a pro-active state.
                                  Also it helps that the NCRR is owned by the state and leased to NS, so they
                                  have control in a major stake in the states transportation well being.

                                  Still what is needed is more action on a federal level. Bring back the
                                  United States Railroad Administration in some form perhaps?

                                  Till later, Andrew Dawson

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