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ANSE Island

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  • Steve Geller
    ... [...] ... Not sure where you d find an island in international waters. There are some islands in the polar regions, but the weather is bad. Antarctica is
    Message 1 of 12 , May 9, 2004
      >Scot wrote:

      >By way of introduction, I am the founder of the ANSE. I will admit
      >that this is a racially motivated organization. I am a white
      >national, and a national socialist.
      [...]
      >We of the ANSE are intending very seriously to construct an island
      >in international waters in order that we may have sovereign
      >jurisdiction over our own affairs.

      Not sure where you'd find an island in international waters.
      There are some islands in the polar regions, but the weather is bad.
      Antarctica is international.

      Anyway, you're going to start from scratch, building a car-free
      settlement? Will you ban personal cars totally, or limit them only
      to certain parts of the island? Of course you'll need to have
      trucks for handling freight.

      If the island is small enough and flat enough, and located in a
      zone of pleasant weather, most of the people could get around on bikes.

      Another possibility is to build your "island" in a remote jungle
      or desert area, and turn it into an ecological paradise.
      Have you read about Gaviotas in Colombia? They use bikes a lot,
      but are not totally car-free.

      Has any group built a real urban environment on an island
      and managed to stay car-free? I once read of an island
      in the Pacific which had no cars for a long time. Finally,
      they got two cars. Within a week, they had their first accident,
      when the two cars collided.

      Some native Hawaiians have established a racially exclusive enclave
      on the island of Niihau, near Kauai. Not sure whether people
      live car-free on Niihau. They are supposed to be living like
      the ancient Hawaiians did, so maybe.

      After space technology advances some more, it might be possible
      for a group to colonize an ultimate island, by settling an asteroid
      or building a space station.
    • emperor@ansempire.net
      Hello Steve: ... That seems to be a problem. The fact is that, as far as I know, every piece of land is already claimed by another nation (land that is useful
      Message 2 of 12 , May 9, 2004
        Hello Steve:

        Steve Geller wrote:

        > Not sure where you'd find an island in international waters.
        > There are some islands in the polar regions, but the weather is bad.
        > Antarctica is international.

        That seems to be a problem. The fact is that, as far as I know, every piece
        of land is already claimed by another nation (land that is useful anyway).
        To purchase an island, and then claim sovereignty over it would likely incur
        a conflict. The polar regions would not allow us the ability to produce food
        via agriculture and so, that area is ruled out.

        We have determined that constructing an island over a shoal outside the
        jurisdiction of a nation's waters is the best way to go. This would consist
        of using concrete walls and columns to create the foundation of the island.
        Many of these can already be obtained from preformed concrete manufacturers
        (One not too far from where I live in Arkansas called Coreslab is an example
        of one such manufacturer).

        The location we have chosen is a shoal only 16 feet under water. Or about 9
        meters. The idea is to create a box 20' x 20' x 20' as a starting point.
        This would require four columns and four walls. Then, say on the north side
        of this box, we create another box like the first. This would only require
        two more columns, and three walls. We would continue this also on the east
        of the first box. Basically you get the idea. These boxes actually will
        continue to be constructed until we have basically enclosed about one acre
        of area. Each box would be filled with raw natural materials (rock, dirt,
        sand, etc. most likely layered in a specific way). The larger area of an
        acre would have to be prepared. Water pumped out, and a sort of concrete
        "bowl" cemented within it. This would then have raw materials also placed in
        it. A freshwater reservoir could be created in this way. We have to take
        into account the capillary action of the soil taking up salt water that
        could damage the vegetation. It is likely also that even the smaller boxes
        that will eventually make up the wall of the enclosed acre would also have
        to have a cement bowl in each one. We would continue this process expanding
        our island and this is, again, only the foundation.

        We can plan underground transport routes prior to island construction and
        once the foundation is in place, just build those routes and facilities
        before adding any more raw materials. Later, after having been constructed,
        those routes can later be covered with raw materials. In the beginning, some
        structures would appear to be above ground buildings but would in actuality
        be the basements and foundations of buildings to come once more raw
        materials are in place. We could place raw materials as we go, and then, as
        one area is finished below ground, we could start construction above ground
        and work like this in phases.


        > Anyway, you're going to start from scratch, building a car-free
        > settlement? Will you ban personal cars totally, or limit them only
        > to certain parts of the island? Of course you'll need to have
        > trucks for handling freight.

        I do not believe that we will be able to ban them completely. Well, we
        could, but that would cause a lot of problems. The book itself states that
        we would have to take into account emergency vehicles, and personal
        emergencies and the like. An alternative would be to use electric vehicles
        in place of gasoline (petrol) fueled vehicles. I believe Saturn, an American
        auto manufacturer actually does manufacture electric vehicles, or at least
        they did at one time. I don't know if they still do. Hydrogen is an option.
        Water will be all around us and plentiful.

        As a side note, and I would like the author's opinion on how to work this
        out, and ideas of others as well, we call the whole of a family a "House".
        Each house, in order to encourage migration, would be granted land. That
        land would be equivalent to one district (112 acres) as mentioned in the
        book. The stipulation would be that that family would have obligations to
        use that land primarily for agriculture. This is one way in which our ideas
        differ from the book, where families would live in houses our apartments, or
        whatever. This would be somewhat like a plantation house, or a manor. It
        would have to be large enough to support extended families for a time. Some
        of those folks would stay home and tend the land. Others would work
        somewhere else. I see no reason why such a manor could not be placed
        directly in the center of a "district" surrounded by the crops tended by the
        House where public transport would actually have a stop.

        There would still be other districts though. And I have wondered if the
        topology of a city of 5,000,000 would not be better suited to such an
        arrangement event though the population is not that large, but for the
        simple sake of a "House" tending the land in such a way and not living in
        close quarters with others. Still, there could be entertainment districts,
        educational districts, medical districts, etc. There would still be ways for
        people to interact closely. This is almost like having the best of both
        worlds between the social situation of a city, and the private situation of
        the country.

        > If the island is small enough and flat enough, and located in a
        > zone of pleasant weather, most of the people could get around on bikes.

        The location is right on the tropic of cancer. Unfortunately, we are going
        to have to build with hurricanes in mind.


        > Another possibility is to build your "island" in a remote jungle
        > or desert area, and turn it into an ecological paradise.
        > Have you read about Gaviotas in Colombia? They use bikes a lot,
        > but are not totally car-free.

        I haven't read this but I am always looking for new resources. In
        constructing an island, we will be setting up our own ecology. We will be
        choosing plant species and animal species (for the most part. Birds might
        eventually consider the island a stop along the way at some point during
        their migrations.)

        > Has any group built a real urban environment on an island
        > and managed to stay car-free? I once read of an island
        > in the Pacific which had no cars for a long time. Finally,
        > they got two cars. Within a week, they had their first accident,
        > when the two cars collided.

        This is humorous. =) Never heard of it though, and I can't answer that
        question.

        > Some native Hawaiians have established a racially exclusive enclave
        > on the island of Niihau, near Kauai. Not sure whether people
        > live car-free on Niihau. They are supposed to be living like
        > the ancient Hawaiians did, so maybe.

        I certainly don't see anything wrong with this. Having pride in ones people
        is not evil or vile as some would be led to believe.


        > After space technology advances some more, it might be possible
        > for a group to colonize an ultimate island, by settling an asteroid
        > or building a space station.

        Though far reaching, we are also looking towards the future, particularly at
        Mars. Our first airport will eventually serve a dual purpose: air/space
        port. All in good time. =)

        Scot
      • Steve Geller
        ... The human territorial instinct has ensured that every island on the planet is claimed by some nation. Trying to take over one of them can be dangerous to
        Message 3 of 12 , May 9, 2004
          >That seems to be a problem. The fact is that, as far as I know, every piece
          >of land is already claimed by another nation (land that is useful anyway).
          >To purchase an island, and then claim sovereignty over it would likely incur
          >a conflict. The polar regions would not allow us the ability to produce food
          >via agriculture and so, that area is ruled out.

          The human territorial instinct has ensured that every island on the planet
          is claimed by some nation. Trying to take over one of them
          can be dangerous to a group's health. China makes threatening
          noises about Taiwan. Indonesia fought over West Irian.
          Argentina and Britain went to war over the Falklands.
          The American Indian Movement held Alcatraz for a while.
          Look at what happened to the urban "islands" held by
          the Branch Davidians and MOVE.

          I don't think any island nations have found it comfortable
          to be car-free. Singapore hasn't. Iceland hasn't.
          Taiwan sure hasn't, even though they use a lot of scooters.
          Britain and Ireland haven't.

          Even isolated island communities still keep cars.
          The only exception I could think of immediately
          was the island of Mackinac, off Michigan.
          http://www.nationaltrust.org/dozen_distinctive_destinations/2003/mackinac.html
          Being car-free is a selling point for its tourist economy.

          I did find this site:
          http://www.carfree.com/carfree_places.html

          >We have determined that constructing an island over a shoal outside the
          >jurisdiction of a nation's waters is the best way to go. This would consist
          >of using concrete walls and columns to create the foundation of the island.

          Sounds difficult and expensive. The island economy would have to have
          some strong export component, like Singapore's shipping or Qatar's oil.
          What would be really great would be to find s shoal attached to
          a diamond pipe.

          The image I get is something like French Frigate Shoals, Hawaii,
          which was built up to be habitable by the USN/USCG.
          http://www.radiojerry.com/frigate/

          I suppose a group like ANSE could get first rights on a new island,
          as it rose from an undersea volcano.

          Even for a shoal, there's the concept of exclusive national economic zones.
          The US and Canada, normally happy neighbors, have squabbled over fishing
          rights. Iceland tangled with the Brits.

          Even the Nazis in Germany didn't get close to a pure racial nation.
          Germans have always come in many racial strains -- not all are
          blond blue-eyed "aryans". No nation has. One of the main reasons
          for racial diversity has been the importation of slaves in the past
          and guest workers today. Saudi Arabia and Kuwait are unlikely
          to remain racially pure if they keep importing workers.

          Your island ANSE nation might find it needs "other" people
          living there to keep the place running.

          Japan still seems fairly racially homogeneous. They have decent
          public transportation, but are nowhere near car-free.

          The common features of car-free places seem to be
          small size, isolation, or geography inconvenient for roads.
          An urban areas, can be car-free if people can get to nearly
          all their destinations on foot, as in the Moroccan Medinas.
        • bumpkinbubba
          ... wrote: (snip) ... I ... You might want to sign the guestbook at www.FreeAmerican.com and explain there what ANSE stands for, because you ve sure got me
          Message 4 of 12 , May 10, 2004
            --- In carfree_cities@yahoogroups.com, "himscoti" <emperor@a...>
            wrote:
            (snip)
            > By way of introduction, I am the founder of the ANSE. I will admit
            > that this is a racially motivated organization. I am a white
            > national, and a national socialist. However, out of respect for the
            > people of this group, and especially the author and administrator,
            I
            > will keep my political and racial beliefs to myself.


            You might want to sign the guestbook at www.FreeAmerican.com and
            explain there what ANSE stands for, because you've sure got me
            curious! I'll remember to take a peek there. In the meantime, I'm
            ignoring anti-Triad racist _Jym_'s ad-hominem assumption of what ANSE
            stands for.


            (snip)
            > We of the ANSE are intending very seriously to construct an island
            > in international waters in order that we may have sovereign
            > jurisdiction over our own affairs.


            Reminds me of the way that _I_ used to pipe dream. Do you think
            you'll have the necessary _boat_ built by the time you're an old
            geezer?


            (snip)
            > To date, we do have three plots of land in the United States. One
            > 100 acre plot in west Texas, one 200 acre plot in Arizona, and a
            > small 150' x 150' plot near Port Lavaca, Texas which gives us
            access
            > to the Gulf of Mexico.


            I think your best bet would be to have these plots secede from the
            U.S. and declare them to be part of the u.S., rather. (Small-case
            "u.") This gives you the sovereignty that you want without all the
            hassle and expense of building an island. All of the necessary papers
            can be obtained through books that are advertised at the Free
            American website. Many of them are printed up in the Turks and Caicos
            Islands.

            That reminds me - it was near the Turks and Caicos Islands that I
            once saw a ready-made island that might also be an option for you,
            consisting of an abandoned ship on a reef. Although I think it was
            within TC territorial waters, it seems that the tin-pot regime
            thereof would probably be happy to accept a sum of money to redraw
            the map so as to exclude it therefrom. Maybe even a lesser sum of
            money than what it'd cost you to buy all those forms that the books
            advertised in the Free American tell you about.


            - BumpkinBubba
          • emperor@ansempire.net
            ... Aryan National Socialist Empire http://ansempire.net http://government.ansempire.net Hope that satisfies your curiosity. ... Nothing is garunteed, but I
            Message 5 of 12 , May 10, 2004
              bumpkinbubba wrote:

              > You might want to sign the guestbook at www.FreeAmerican.com and
              > explain there what ANSE stands for, because you've sure got me
              > curious! I'll remember to take a peek there. In the meantime, I'm
              > ignoring anti-Triad racist _Jym_'s ad-hominem assumption of what ANSE
              > stands for.

              Aryan National Socialist Empire http://ansempire.net
              http://government.ansempire.net

              Hope that satisfies your curiosity.

              > Reminds me of the way that _I_ used to pipe dream. Do you think
              > you'll have the necessary _boat_ built by the time you're an old
              > geezer?

              Nothing is garunteed, but I don't expect we will build a boat. We will
              either charter one or purchase one.

              > I think your best bet would be to have these plots secede from the
              > U.S. and declare them to be part of the u.S., rather. (Small-case
              > "u.") This gives you the sovereignty that you want without all the
              > hassle and expense of building an island.

              Not a very smart move to attempt to secede form the US. Unless, of course,
              you have a death wish.

              Scot
            • emperor@ansempire.net
              Hello Steve: ... I agree with you. That is why we have chosen to build an island rather than attempt to claim sovereignty over an already existing island, or
              Message 6 of 12 , May 10, 2004
                Hello Steve:


                Steve Geller wrote:

                > The human territorial instinct has ensured that every island on the planet
                > is claimed by some nation. Trying to take over one of them
                > can be dangerous to a group's health. China makes threatening
                > noises about Taiwan. Indonesia fought over West Irian.
                > Argentina and Britain went to war over the Falklands.
                > The American Indian Movement held Alcatraz for a while.
                > Look at what happened to the urban "islands" held by
                > the Branch Davidians and MOVE.

                I agree with you. That is why we have chosen to build an island rather than
                attempt to claim sovereignty over an already existing island, or to attempt
                to take land by force. Our numbers are just too small for conflict at the
                moment. We would prefere peace, of course, but we expect that we will have
                to defend our island at some point.

                > I don't think any island nations have found it comfortable
                > to be car-free. Singapore hasn't. Iceland hasn't.
                > Taiwan sure hasn't, even though they use a lot of scooters.
                > Britain and Ireland haven't.

                I suppost that has a lot to do with how their cities are built. I think the
                author might agree.

                > Even isolated island communities still keep cars.
                > The only exception I could think of immediately
                > was the island of Mackinac, off Michigan.
                >
                http://www.nationaltrust.org/dozen_distinctive_destinations/2003/mackinac.html
                > Being car-free is a selling point for its tourist economy.

                We have a member who lives on Mackinac Island although I didn't know much
                about it to ask him anything about it until now.

                > Sounds difficult and expensive. The island economy would have to have
                > some strong export component, like Singapore's shipping or Qatar's oil.
                > What would be really great would be to find s shoal attached to
                > a diamond pipe.

                That would be nice, but not likely at the site we have chosen. We expect
                that agricultural will be the largest export. We are looking into the
                possibility of setting up a smaller satalite island for a casino.

                > The image I get is something like French Frigate Shoals, Hawaii,
                > which was built up to be habitable by the USN/USCG.
                > http://www.radiojerry.com/frigate/

                I will have to look into this site.

                > I suppose a group like ANSE could get first rights on a new island,
                > as it rose from an undersea volcano.

                Perhaps, but I am not sure that it would be practicle to try to establish
                any city on it, unless you like putting out your city every so often.

                > Even for a shoal, there's the concept of exclusive national economic
                zones.
                > The US and Canada, normally happy neighbors, have squabbled over fishing
                > rights. Iceland tangled with the Brits.

                Yes, territorial waters = 12 nauticle miles, economic zones, up to 200
                nauticle miles. We will have to deal with Mexico on this one.

                > Even the Nazis in Germany didn't get close to a pure racial nation.
                > Germans have always come in many racial strains -- not all are
                > blond blue-eyed "aryans". No nation has. One of the main reasons
                > for racial diversity has been the importation of slaves in the past
                > and guest workers today. Saudi Arabia and Kuwait are unlikely
                > to remain racially pure if they keep importing workers.

                Adolf Hitler realized this fact. He was short and certianly didn't have
                blond hair. The concept was to evolve the race to be better than it is. I
                think every race can do this and keep pure bloodlines. Of course, pure is a
                reletive term. Again, even Adolf realized this. His idea was that we could
                atone for the dilution of the bloodlines by working to make them better and
                better over time. Euginics was to be the means.

                > Your island ANSE nation might find it needs "other" people
                > living there to keep the place running.

                I am sure that we can do what any "other" person could do effectivly enough.

                > Japan still seems fairly racially homogeneous. They have decent
                > public transportation, but are nowhere near car-free.

                I like Japan because the people there embrace technology. However, they are
                a bit overcrowded. At least from what I've see. I've never been there, but
                everytime I see something on TV about Japan, the scene is just... dense.
                Dense with people, buildings, cars, etc.

                > The common features of car-free places seem to be
                > small size, isolation, or geography inconvenient for roads.
                > An urban areas, can be car-free if people can get to nearly
                > all their destinations on foot, as in the Moroccan Medinas.

                I believe that is the idea that the author was attempting to get across when
                he spoke of the campus of the school he attended. Getting to a place on foot
                is the ideal way to do it but everything has to be close, within walking
                distance. When this is not practical, bikes and public transportation can be
                used.

                Living in Denver, Colorado for a time, I have to say that there is an
                extensive public transportation system there (primarily busses). That makes
                it convenient to get around. I lived there for a little over two years and
                never had a car until my last two months there. When I moved back to
                Arkansas, I was reminded of the utter lack of public transport. Sure, Little
                Rock and North Little Rock have busses, but not many. And I live in Conway,
                Arkansas. No public transportation here at all. In order to live and do the
                things necessary to living (work, grocery shopping, etc.) one MUST have a
                car or do without the most basic needs.

                Scot
              • Jym Dyer
                ... =v= The neo-Nazi shows his true colors here. Recall that in his first message he wrote this: [O]ut of respect for the people of this group, and especially
                Message 7 of 12 , May 10, 2004
                  The Aryan National Socialist Empire's would-be Emperor writes:

                  > Again, even Adolf realized this. His idea was that we could
                  > atone for the dilution [sic] of the bloodlines by working to
                  > make them better and better over time. Euginics [sic] was to
                  > be the means.

                  =v= The neo-Nazi shows his true colors here. Recall that in
                  his first message he wrote this:

                  [O]ut of respect for the people of this group, and especially
                  the author and administrator, I will keep my political and
                  racial beliefs to myself.

                  When I pointed out that he'd already put a disrespectful foot
                  forward, he responded with this:

                  I will do what I have said. Its [sic] a matter of honor.
                  Will you do the same?

                  And now we have exactly what he said he'd keep to himself. So
                  much for honor.
                  <_Jym_>
                • Simon Baddeley
                  How about the Isle of Wight in the English Channel? There are some really nice tea shops there and people seem friendly, reliable ferries and buses and lots of
                  Message 8 of 12 , May 10, 2004
                    How about the Isle of Wight in the English Channel? There are some really
                    nice tea shops there and people seem friendly, reliable ferries and buses
                    and lots of small harbours. The Queen keeps a house there which could
                    perhaps be rented for the Emperor of ANSE. I once sailed there from the
                    mainland on my own boat and went to see "King Kong" in the cinema at Newport
                    before returning home around midnight.

                    Simon

                    On 10/5/04 4:09 pm, "emperor@..." <emperor@...> wrote:

                    > Hello Steve:
                    >
                    >
                    > Steve Geller wrote:
                    >
                    >> The human territorial instinct has ensured that every island on the planet
                    >> is claimed by some nation. Trying to take over one of them
                    >> can be dangerous to a group's health. China makes threatening
                    >> noises about Taiwan. Indonesia fought over West Irian.
                    >> Argentina and
                  • Simon Baddeley
                    Did you know that Adolf had an illegitimate brother called Heinrich - I think - who married or lived with a Romany and went to live on an island off Cape Wrath
                    Message 9 of 12 , May 10, 2004
                      Did you know that Adolf had an illegitimate brother called Heinrich - I
                      think - who married or lived with a Romany and went to live on an island off
                      Cape Wrath and lived in happy obscurity after changing his name? S


                      On 10/5/04 4:22 pm, "Jym Dyer" <jym@...> wrote:

                      > The Aryan National Socialist Empire's would-be Emperor writes:
                      >
                      >>
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