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Re: [carfree_cities] Hello

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  • emperor@ansempire.net
    Hello I have stated what I am, not what you are and if you are offended, then that is up to you to deal with. I am here for one reason. To learn, and to share
    Message 1 of 12 , May 9, 2004
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      Hello

      I have stated what I am, not what you are and if you are offended, then that
      is up to you to deal with.

      I am here for one reason. To learn, and to share what we learn. I said that
      I would show respect to the people on this list, and I will do what I have
      said. Its a matter of honor. Will you do the same?

      Scot



      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Jym Dyer" <jym@...>
      To: <carfree_cities@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2004 2:21 PM
      Subject: Re: [carfree_cities] Hello


      > > I will admit that this is a racially motivated organization.
      > > I am a white national, and a national socialist. However, out
      > > of respect for the people of this group, and especially the
      > > author and administrator, I will keep my political and racial
      > > beliefs to myself. In return, I ask the same respect of others
      > > here.
      >
      > =v= This does not fly. Off the bat you have *NOT* kept your
      > racist pathology to yourself, and your declaration of racism
      > is in itself a declaration of disrespect.
      >
      > =v= A list dedicated to carfree CITIES is about bringing people
      > together. This seems diametrically opposite to a bunch of
      > deluded neo-Nazis setting up remote compounds in the middle of
      > Native American territory.
      > <_Jym_>
      > --
      > "Above all, it is the young who succumb to this magic.
      > They experience the triumph of the motorcar with the full
      > temperament of their impressionable hearts. It must be
      > seen as a sign of the invigorating power of our people
      > that they give themselves with such fanatic devotion to
      > this invention, the invention which provides the basis
      > and structure of our modern traffic."
      > -- Adolf Hitler
      >
      > Ads below? Just ignore 'em.
      > Nazis above? Just ignore 'em.
      >
      >
      >
      > To Post a message, send it to: carfree_cities@...
      > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
      carfree_cities-unsubscribe@...
      > Group address: http://www.egroups.com/group/carfree_cities/
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • Steve Geller
      ... [...] ... Not sure where you d find an island in international waters. There are some islands in the polar regions, but the weather is bad. Antarctica is
      Message 2 of 12 , May 9, 2004
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        >Scot wrote:

        >By way of introduction, I am the founder of the ANSE. I will admit
        >that this is a racially motivated organization. I am a white
        >national, and a national socialist.
        [...]
        >We of the ANSE are intending very seriously to construct an island
        >in international waters in order that we may have sovereign
        >jurisdiction over our own affairs.

        Not sure where you'd find an island in international waters.
        There are some islands in the polar regions, but the weather is bad.
        Antarctica is international.

        Anyway, you're going to start from scratch, building a car-free
        settlement? Will you ban personal cars totally, or limit them only
        to certain parts of the island? Of course you'll need to have
        trucks for handling freight.

        If the island is small enough and flat enough, and located in a
        zone of pleasant weather, most of the people could get around on bikes.

        Another possibility is to build your "island" in a remote jungle
        or desert area, and turn it into an ecological paradise.
        Have you read about Gaviotas in Colombia? They use bikes a lot,
        but are not totally car-free.

        Has any group built a real urban environment on an island
        and managed to stay car-free? I once read of an island
        in the Pacific which had no cars for a long time. Finally,
        they got two cars. Within a week, they had their first accident,
        when the two cars collided.

        Some native Hawaiians have established a racially exclusive enclave
        on the island of Niihau, near Kauai. Not sure whether people
        live car-free on Niihau. They are supposed to be living like
        the ancient Hawaiians did, so maybe.

        After space technology advances some more, it might be possible
        for a group to colonize an ultimate island, by settling an asteroid
        or building a space station.
      • emperor@ansempire.net
        Hello Steve: ... That seems to be a problem. The fact is that, as far as I know, every piece of land is already claimed by another nation (land that is useful
        Message 3 of 12 , May 9, 2004
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          Hello Steve:

          Steve Geller wrote:

          > Not sure where you'd find an island in international waters.
          > There are some islands in the polar regions, but the weather is bad.
          > Antarctica is international.

          That seems to be a problem. The fact is that, as far as I know, every piece
          of land is already claimed by another nation (land that is useful anyway).
          To purchase an island, and then claim sovereignty over it would likely incur
          a conflict. The polar regions would not allow us the ability to produce food
          via agriculture and so, that area is ruled out.

          We have determined that constructing an island over a shoal outside the
          jurisdiction of a nation's waters is the best way to go. This would consist
          of using concrete walls and columns to create the foundation of the island.
          Many of these can already be obtained from preformed concrete manufacturers
          (One not too far from where I live in Arkansas called Coreslab is an example
          of one such manufacturer).

          The location we have chosen is a shoal only 16 feet under water. Or about 9
          meters. The idea is to create a box 20' x 20' x 20' as a starting point.
          This would require four columns and four walls. Then, say on the north side
          of this box, we create another box like the first. This would only require
          two more columns, and three walls. We would continue this also on the east
          of the first box. Basically you get the idea. These boxes actually will
          continue to be constructed until we have basically enclosed about one acre
          of area. Each box would be filled with raw natural materials (rock, dirt,
          sand, etc. most likely layered in a specific way). The larger area of an
          acre would have to be prepared. Water pumped out, and a sort of concrete
          "bowl" cemented within it. This would then have raw materials also placed in
          it. A freshwater reservoir could be created in this way. We have to take
          into account the capillary action of the soil taking up salt water that
          could damage the vegetation. It is likely also that even the smaller boxes
          that will eventually make up the wall of the enclosed acre would also have
          to have a cement bowl in each one. We would continue this process expanding
          our island and this is, again, only the foundation.

          We can plan underground transport routes prior to island construction and
          once the foundation is in place, just build those routes and facilities
          before adding any more raw materials. Later, after having been constructed,
          those routes can later be covered with raw materials. In the beginning, some
          structures would appear to be above ground buildings but would in actuality
          be the basements and foundations of buildings to come once more raw
          materials are in place. We could place raw materials as we go, and then, as
          one area is finished below ground, we could start construction above ground
          and work like this in phases.


          > Anyway, you're going to start from scratch, building a car-free
          > settlement? Will you ban personal cars totally, or limit them only
          > to certain parts of the island? Of course you'll need to have
          > trucks for handling freight.

          I do not believe that we will be able to ban them completely. Well, we
          could, but that would cause a lot of problems. The book itself states that
          we would have to take into account emergency vehicles, and personal
          emergencies and the like. An alternative would be to use electric vehicles
          in place of gasoline (petrol) fueled vehicles. I believe Saturn, an American
          auto manufacturer actually does manufacture electric vehicles, or at least
          they did at one time. I don't know if they still do. Hydrogen is an option.
          Water will be all around us and plentiful.

          As a side note, and I would like the author's opinion on how to work this
          out, and ideas of others as well, we call the whole of a family a "House".
          Each house, in order to encourage migration, would be granted land. That
          land would be equivalent to one district (112 acres) as mentioned in the
          book. The stipulation would be that that family would have obligations to
          use that land primarily for agriculture. This is one way in which our ideas
          differ from the book, where families would live in houses our apartments, or
          whatever. This would be somewhat like a plantation house, or a manor. It
          would have to be large enough to support extended families for a time. Some
          of those folks would stay home and tend the land. Others would work
          somewhere else. I see no reason why such a manor could not be placed
          directly in the center of a "district" surrounded by the crops tended by the
          House where public transport would actually have a stop.

          There would still be other districts though. And I have wondered if the
          topology of a city of 5,000,000 would not be better suited to such an
          arrangement event though the population is not that large, but for the
          simple sake of a "House" tending the land in such a way and not living in
          close quarters with others. Still, there could be entertainment districts,
          educational districts, medical districts, etc. There would still be ways for
          people to interact closely. This is almost like having the best of both
          worlds between the social situation of a city, and the private situation of
          the country.

          > If the island is small enough and flat enough, and located in a
          > zone of pleasant weather, most of the people could get around on bikes.

          The location is right on the tropic of cancer. Unfortunately, we are going
          to have to build with hurricanes in mind.


          > Another possibility is to build your "island" in a remote jungle
          > or desert area, and turn it into an ecological paradise.
          > Have you read about Gaviotas in Colombia? They use bikes a lot,
          > but are not totally car-free.

          I haven't read this but I am always looking for new resources. In
          constructing an island, we will be setting up our own ecology. We will be
          choosing plant species and animal species (for the most part. Birds might
          eventually consider the island a stop along the way at some point during
          their migrations.)

          > Has any group built a real urban environment on an island
          > and managed to stay car-free? I once read of an island
          > in the Pacific which had no cars for a long time. Finally,
          > they got two cars. Within a week, they had their first accident,
          > when the two cars collided.

          This is humorous. =) Never heard of it though, and I can't answer that
          question.

          > Some native Hawaiians have established a racially exclusive enclave
          > on the island of Niihau, near Kauai. Not sure whether people
          > live car-free on Niihau. They are supposed to be living like
          > the ancient Hawaiians did, so maybe.

          I certainly don't see anything wrong with this. Having pride in ones people
          is not evil or vile as some would be led to believe.


          > After space technology advances some more, it might be possible
          > for a group to colonize an ultimate island, by settling an asteroid
          > or building a space station.

          Though far reaching, we are also looking towards the future, particularly at
          Mars. Our first airport will eventually serve a dual purpose: air/space
          port. All in good time. =)

          Scot
        • Steve Geller
          ... The human territorial instinct has ensured that every island on the planet is claimed by some nation. Trying to take over one of them can be dangerous to
          Message 4 of 12 , May 9, 2004
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            >That seems to be a problem. The fact is that, as far as I know, every piece
            >of land is already claimed by another nation (land that is useful anyway).
            >To purchase an island, and then claim sovereignty over it would likely incur
            >a conflict. The polar regions would not allow us the ability to produce food
            >via agriculture and so, that area is ruled out.

            The human territorial instinct has ensured that every island on the planet
            is claimed by some nation. Trying to take over one of them
            can be dangerous to a group's health. China makes threatening
            noises about Taiwan. Indonesia fought over West Irian.
            Argentina and Britain went to war over the Falklands.
            The American Indian Movement held Alcatraz for a while.
            Look at what happened to the urban "islands" held by
            the Branch Davidians and MOVE.

            I don't think any island nations have found it comfortable
            to be car-free. Singapore hasn't. Iceland hasn't.
            Taiwan sure hasn't, even though they use a lot of scooters.
            Britain and Ireland haven't.

            Even isolated island communities still keep cars.
            The only exception I could think of immediately
            was the island of Mackinac, off Michigan.
            http://www.nationaltrust.org/dozen_distinctive_destinations/2003/mackinac.html
            Being car-free is a selling point for its tourist economy.

            I did find this site:
            http://www.carfree.com/carfree_places.html

            >We have determined that constructing an island over a shoal outside the
            >jurisdiction of a nation's waters is the best way to go. This would consist
            >of using concrete walls and columns to create the foundation of the island.

            Sounds difficult and expensive. The island economy would have to have
            some strong export component, like Singapore's shipping or Qatar's oil.
            What would be really great would be to find s shoal attached to
            a diamond pipe.

            The image I get is something like French Frigate Shoals, Hawaii,
            which was built up to be habitable by the USN/USCG.
            http://www.radiojerry.com/frigate/

            I suppose a group like ANSE could get first rights on a new island,
            as it rose from an undersea volcano.

            Even for a shoal, there's the concept of exclusive national economic zones.
            The US and Canada, normally happy neighbors, have squabbled over fishing
            rights. Iceland tangled with the Brits.

            Even the Nazis in Germany didn't get close to a pure racial nation.
            Germans have always come in many racial strains -- not all are
            blond blue-eyed "aryans". No nation has. One of the main reasons
            for racial diversity has been the importation of slaves in the past
            and guest workers today. Saudi Arabia and Kuwait are unlikely
            to remain racially pure if they keep importing workers.

            Your island ANSE nation might find it needs "other" people
            living there to keep the place running.

            Japan still seems fairly racially homogeneous. They have decent
            public transportation, but are nowhere near car-free.

            The common features of car-free places seem to be
            small size, isolation, or geography inconvenient for roads.
            An urban areas, can be car-free if people can get to nearly
            all their destinations on foot, as in the Moroccan Medinas.
          • bumpkinbubba
            ... wrote: (snip) ... I ... You might want to sign the guestbook at www.FreeAmerican.com and explain there what ANSE stands for, because you ve sure got me
            Message 5 of 12 , May 10, 2004
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              --- In carfree_cities@yahoogroups.com, "himscoti" <emperor@a...>
              wrote:
              (snip)
              > By way of introduction, I am the founder of the ANSE. I will admit
              > that this is a racially motivated organization. I am a white
              > national, and a national socialist. However, out of respect for the
              > people of this group, and especially the author and administrator,
              I
              > will keep my political and racial beliefs to myself.


              You might want to sign the guestbook at www.FreeAmerican.com and
              explain there what ANSE stands for, because you've sure got me
              curious! I'll remember to take a peek there. In the meantime, I'm
              ignoring anti-Triad racist _Jym_'s ad-hominem assumption of what ANSE
              stands for.


              (snip)
              > We of the ANSE are intending very seriously to construct an island
              > in international waters in order that we may have sovereign
              > jurisdiction over our own affairs.


              Reminds me of the way that _I_ used to pipe dream. Do you think
              you'll have the necessary _boat_ built by the time you're an old
              geezer?


              (snip)
              > To date, we do have three plots of land in the United States. One
              > 100 acre plot in west Texas, one 200 acre plot in Arizona, and a
              > small 150' x 150' plot near Port Lavaca, Texas which gives us
              access
              > to the Gulf of Mexico.


              I think your best bet would be to have these plots secede from the
              U.S. and declare them to be part of the u.S., rather. (Small-case
              "u.") This gives you the sovereignty that you want without all the
              hassle and expense of building an island. All of the necessary papers
              can be obtained through books that are advertised at the Free
              American website. Many of them are printed up in the Turks and Caicos
              Islands.

              That reminds me - it was near the Turks and Caicos Islands that I
              once saw a ready-made island that might also be an option for you,
              consisting of an abandoned ship on a reef. Although I think it was
              within TC territorial waters, it seems that the tin-pot regime
              thereof would probably be happy to accept a sum of money to redraw
              the map so as to exclude it therefrom. Maybe even a lesser sum of
              money than what it'd cost you to buy all those forms that the books
              advertised in the Free American tell you about.


              - BumpkinBubba
            • emperor@ansempire.net
              ... Aryan National Socialist Empire http://ansempire.net http://government.ansempire.net Hope that satisfies your curiosity. ... Nothing is garunteed, but I
              Message 6 of 12 , May 10, 2004
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                bumpkinbubba wrote:

                > You might want to sign the guestbook at www.FreeAmerican.com and
                > explain there what ANSE stands for, because you've sure got me
                > curious! I'll remember to take a peek there. In the meantime, I'm
                > ignoring anti-Triad racist _Jym_'s ad-hominem assumption of what ANSE
                > stands for.

                Aryan National Socialist Empire http://ansempire.net
                http://government.ansempire.net

                Hope that satisfies your curiosity.

                > Reminds me of the way that _I_ used to pipe dream. Do you think
                > you'll have the necessary _boat_ built by the time you're an old
                > geezer?

                Nothing is garunteed, but I don't expect we will build a boat. We will
                either charter one or purchase one.

                > I think your best bet would be to have these plots secede from the
                > U.S. and declare them to be part of the u.S., rather. (Small-case
                > "u.") This gives you the sovereignty that you want without all the
                > hassle and expense of building an island.

                Not a very smart move to attempt to secede form the US. Unless, of course,
                you have a death wish.

                Scot
              • emperor@ansempire.net
                Hello Steve: ... I agree with you. That is why we have chosen to build an island rather than attempt to claim sovereignty over an already existing island, or
                Message 7 of 12 , May 10, 2004
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                  Hello Steve:


                  Steve Geller wrote:

                  > The human territorial instinct has ensured that every island on the planet
                  > is claimed by some nation. Trying to take over one of them
                  > can be dangerous to a group's health. China makes threatening
                  > noises about Taiwan. Indonesia fought over West Irian.
                  > Argentina and Britain went to war over the Falklands.
                  > The American Indian Movement held Alcatraz for a while.
                  > Look at what happened to the urban "islands" held by
                  > the Branch Davidians and MOVE.

                  I agree with you. That is why we have chosen to build an island rather than
                  attempt to claim sovereignty over an already existing island, or to attempt
                  to take land by force. Our numbers are just too small for conflict at the
                  moment. We would prefere peace, of course, but we expect that we will have
                  to defend our island at some point.

                  > I don't think any island nations have found it comfortable
                  > to be car-free. Singapore hasn't. Iceland hasn't.
                  > Taiwan sure hasn't, even though they use a lot of scooters.
                  > Britain and Ireland haven't.

                  I suppost that has a lot to do with how their cities are built. I think the
                  author might agree.

                  > Even isolated island communities still keep cars.
                  > The only exception I could think of immediately
                  > was the island of Mackinac, off Michigan.
                  >
                  http://www.nationaltrust.org/dozen_distinctive_destinations/2003/mackinac.html
                  > Being car-free is a selling point for its tourist economy.

                  We have a member who lives on Mackinac Island although I didn't know much
                  about it to ask him anything about it until now.

                  > Sounds difficult and expensive. The island economy would have to have
                  > some strong export component, like Singapore's shipping or Qatar's oil.
                  > What would be really great would be to find s shoal attached to
                  > a diamond pipe.

                  That would be nice, but not likely at the site we have chosen. We expect
                  that agricultural will be the largest export. We are looking into the
                  possibility of setting up a smaller satalite island for a casino.

                  > The image I get is something like French Frigate Shoals, Hawaii,
                  > which was built up to be habitable by the USN/USCG.
                  > http://www.radiojerry.com/frigate/

                  I will have to look into this site.

                  > I suppose a group like ANSE could get first rights on a new island,
                  > as it rose from an undersea volcano.

                  Perhaps, but I am not sure that it would be practicle to try to establish
                  any city on it, unless you like putting out your city every so often.

                  > Even for a shoal, there's the concept of exclusive national economic
                  zones.
                  > The US and Canada, normally happy neighbors, have squabbled over fishing
                  > rights. Iceland tangled with the Brits.

                  Yes, territorial waters = 12 nauticle miles, economic zones, up to 200
                  nauticle miles. We will have to deal with Mexico on this one.

                  > Even the Nazis in Germany didn't get close to a pure racial nation.
                  > Germans have always come in many racial strains -- not all are
                  > blond blue-eyed "aryans". No nation has. One of the main reasons
                  > for racial diversity has been the importation of slaves in the past
                  > and guest workers today. Saudi Arabia and Kuwait are unlikely
                  > to remain racially pure if they keep importing workers.

                  Adolf Hitler realized this fact. He was short and certianly didn't have
                  blond hair. The concept was to evolve the race to be better than it is. I
                  think every race can do this and keep pure bloodlines. Of course, pure is a
                  reletive term. Again, even Adolf realized this. His idea was that we could
                  atone for the dilution of the bloodlines by working to make them better and
                  better over time. Euginics was to be the means.

                  > Your island ANSE nation might find it needs "other" people
                  > living there to keep the place running.

                  I am sure that we can do what any "other" person could do effectivly enough.

                  > Japan still seems fairly racially homogeneous. They have decent
                  > public transportation, but are nowhere near car-free.

                  I like Japan because the people there embrace technology. However, they are
                  a bit overcrowded. At least from what I've see. I've never been there, but
                  everytime I see something on TV about Japan, the scene is just... dense.
                  Dense with people, buildings, cars, etc.

                  > The common features of car-free places seem to be
                  > small size, isolation, or geography inconvenient for roads.
                  > An urban areas, can be car-free if people can get to nearly
                  > all their destinations on foot, as in the Moroccan Medinas.

                  I believe that is the idea that the author was attempting to get across when
                  he spoke of the campus of the school he attended. Getting to a place on foot
                  is the ideal way to do it but everything has to be close, within walking
                  distance. When this is not practical, bikes and public transportation can be
                  used.

                  Living in Denver, Colorado for a time, I have to say that there is an
                  extensive public transportation system there (primarily busses). That makes
                  it convenient to get around. I lived there for a little over two years and
                  never had a car until my last two months there. When I moved back to
                  Arkansas, I was reminded of the utter lack of public transport. Sure, Little
                  Rock and North Little Rock have busses, but not many. And I live in Conway,
                  Arkansas. No public transportation here at all. In order to live and do the
                  things necessary to living (work, grocery shopping, etc.) one MUST have a
                  car or do without the most basic needs.

                  Scot
                • Jym Dyer
                  ... =v= The neo-Nazi shows his true colors here. Recall that in his first message he wrote this: [O]ut of respect for the people of this group, and especially
                  Message 8 of 12 , May 10, 2004
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                    The Aryan National Socialist Empire's would-be Emperor writes:

                    > Again, even Adolf realized this. His idea was that we could
                    > atone for the dilution [sic] of the bloodlines by working to
                    > make them better and better over time. Euginics [sic] was to
                    > be the means.

                    =v= The neo-Nazi shows his true colors here. Recall that in
                    his first message he wrote this:

                    [O]ut of respect for the people of this group, and especially
                    the author and administrator, I will keep my political and
                    racial beliefs to myself.

                    When I pointed out that he'd already put a disrespectful foot
                    forward, he responded with this:

                    I will do what I have said. Its [sic] a matter of honor.
                    Will you do the same?

                    And now we have exactly what he said he'd keep to himself. So
                    much for honor.
                    <_Jym_>
                  • Simon Baddeley
                    How about the Isle of Wight in the English Channel? There are some really nice tea shops there and people seem friendly, reliable ferries and buses and lots of
                    Message 9 of 12 , May 10, 2004
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                      How about the Isle of Wight in the English Channel? There are some really
                      nice tea shops there and people seem friendly, reliable ferries and buses
                      and lots of small harbours. The Queen keeps a house there which could
                      perhaps be rented for the Emperor of ANSE. I once sailed there from the
                      mainland on my own boat and went to see "King Kong" in the cinema at Newport
                      before returning home around midnight.

                      Simon

                      On 10/5/04 4:09 pm, "emperor@..." <emperor@...> wrote:

                      > Hello Steve:
                      >
                      >
                      > Steve Geller wrote:
                      >
                      >> The human territorial instinct has ensured that every island on the planet
                      >> is claimed by some nation. Trying to take over one of them
                      >> can be dangerous to a group's health. China makes threatening
                      >> noises about Taiwan. Indonesia fought over West Irian.
                      >> Argentina and
                    • Simon Baddeley
                      Did you know that Adolf had an illegitimate brother called Heinrich - I think - who married or lived with a Romany and went to live on an island off Cape Wrath
                      Message 10 of 12 , May 10, 2004
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                        Did you know that Adolf had an illegitimate brother called Heinrich - I
                        think - who married or lived with a Romany and went to live on an island off
                        Cape Wrath and lived in happy obscurity after changing his name? S


                        On 10/5/04 4:22 pm, "Jym Dyer" <jym@...> wrote:

                        > The Aryan National Socialist Empire's would-be Emperor writes:
                        >
                        >>
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