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re: carefree quality of life in nyc

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  • barry goldman
    guys, i still want to know what you think about people flocking to streetside outdoor cafe s on places like upper west side broadway. If having a highway full
    Message 1 of 6 , Dec 4, 2003
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      guys, i still want to know what you think about people
      flocking to streetside outdoor cafe's on places like
      upper west side broadway. If having a highway full of
      cars and noisy smelly buses 10 feet from your dining
      expereience is so bad for quality of life, why do
      people flock to them?

      I rarely hear people i am with act as if they notice
      negative quality!

      its like Kunstler in his book goeography of nowhere
      says, he's so surprised that people don't notice cars
      SUCK

      so do people in general give a shit about this car
      free stuff? do you got surveys?

      thanks

      barry goldman


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    • Bijan Soleymani
      ... That s like saying if the schools are bad why do people send their children to school. Bad school is better than no school. There aren t many places people
      Message 2 of 6 , Dec 4, 2003
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        barry goldman <sow_thistle@...> writes:

        > guys, i still want to know what you think about people
        > flocking to streetside outdoor cafe's on places like
        > upper west side broadway. If having a highway full of
        > cars and noisy smelly buses 10 feet from your dining
        > expereience is so bad for quality of life, why do
        > people flock to them?

        That's like saying if the schools are bad why do people send their
        children to school. Bad school is better than no school. There aren't
        many places people can go to be around other people without having
        tons of cars around. Does that mean that people won't go out? No
        people will make do with the way things are. It's better to dine in a
        noisy place than not to dine at all.

        > I rarely hear people i am with act as if they notice
        > negative quality!

        I don't know about the specifics of your friends lives. So I can't
        comment.

        Bijan
        --
        Bijan Soleymani <bijan@...>
        http://www.crasseux.com
      • sow_thistle
        ... a noisy place than not to dine at all. But people HAVE A CHOICE to dine on the sidewalk cafe at night or inside the restaurant. I personally always choose
        Message 3 of 6 , Dec 4, 2003
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          Bijan Soleymani <bijan@p...> wrote:
          > barry goldman <sow_thistle@y...> writes:
          >
          > > guys, i still want to know what you think about people
          > > flocking to streetside outdoor cafe's on places like
          > > upper west side broadway. If having a highway full of
          > > cars and noisy smelly buses 10 feet from your dining
          > > expereience is so bad for quality of life, why do
          > > people flock to them?

          > people will make do with the way things are. It's better to dine in
          a noisy place than not to dine at all.

          But people HAVE A CHOICE to dine on the sidewalk cafe at night or
          inside the restaurant. I personally always choose inside the
          restaurant in most new york city streets, who wants to have dinner on
          a highway? i discussed this with the headwaiter at an indian
          restaruant i frequent, why they don't have sidewalk dining like all
          the other POSH places and he said, "eating should be a healing
          process, eating on the newyork city street, is not a healing process,
          hell, you get soot in your food!"

          barry
        • Bijan Soleymani
          ... Sitting in a sidewalk cafe or eating inside a restaurant are completely different experiences. The sidewalk cafe is a much more public place. Where you can
          Message 4 of 6 , Dec 4, 2003
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            "sow_thistle" <sow_thistle@...> writes:

            > Bijan Soleymani <bijan@p...> wrote:
            >
            > But people HAVE A CHOICE to dine on the sidewalk cafe at night or
            > inside the restaurant. I personally always choose inside the
            > restaurant in most new york city streets, who wants to have dinner on
            > a highway? i discussed this with the headwaiter at an indian
            > restaruant i frequent, why they don't have sidewalk dining like all
            > the other POSH places and he said, "eating should be a healing
            > process, eating on the newyork city street, is not a healing process,
            > hell, you get soot in your food!"

            Sitting in a sidewalk cafe or eating inside a restaurant are
            completely different experiences. The sidewalk cafe is a much more
            public place. Where you can sit for hours and watch people walk by and
            have them watch you. And just sit there and read your newspaper or
            nurse a beer, etc. It's one of those things you can only enjoy in a
            city, since that's the only place where there's enough pedestrian
            traffic to make it work.

            Bijan
            --
            Bijan Soleymani <bijan@...>
            http://www.crasseux.com
          • Jym Dyer
            ... =v= If we re thinking of the same stretch of Broadway, the sidewalks are wider than that. Even with outdoor seating taking up some of of the sidewalk,
            Message 5 of 6 , Dec 9, 2003
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              >>> i still want to know what you think about people flocking
              >>> to streetside outdoor cafe's on places like upper west side
              >>> broadway. If having a highway full of cars and noisy smelly
              >>> buses 10 feet from your dining expereience is so bad for
              >>> quality of life, why do people flock to them?

              =v= If we're thinking of the same stretch of Broadway, the
              sidewalks are wider than that. Even with outdoor seating
              taking up some of of the sidewalk, it's more like 20 feet to
              the street. The sidewalk is usually packed with people, which
              makes a sort of buffer zone, plus there's a row of parked cars.
              (Not that this is a great thing. They may start up and sit and
              idle, plus there can be an annoying glare reflected from their
              windshields!)

              =v= I don't think these are exemplars of outdoor dining, even in
              New York City. You see better and more thriving ones a block to
              the east, on Amsterdam, which is a slightly quieter street. The
              very best examples are many blocks south, in the oldest parts of
              the city, where the streets are narrower and not quite part of a
              grid.

              =v= (Think of the cover jacket photo of Jane Jacobs in the West
              Village.)
              <_Jym_>
              --
              Boycott Compulsory Consumption:
              http://www.xmasresistance.org/

              Ignore the ads below, for starters.
            • Richard Risemberg
              ... Besides, noisy sidewalk dining is better than no sidewalk dining...at least you re out in the mix. People are striving to find enjoyable moments in their
              Message 6 of 6 , Dec 9, 2003
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                Jym Dyer wrote:

                >>>>i still want to know what you think about people flocking
                >>>>to streetside outdoor cafe's on places like upper west side
                >>>>broadway. If having a highway full of cars and noisy smelly
                >>>>buses 10 feet from your dining expereience is so bad for
                >>>>quality of life, why do people flock to them?
                >
                Besides, noisy sidewalk dining is better than no sidewalk dining...at
                least you're out in the mix. People are striving to find enjoyable
                moments in their lives regardless of how difficult our present bad
                habits make it. It's really a sing that waht we strive for are
                conditions the majority seeks as well, but doesn't know how to find,
                simply because they see cars as a "natural" part of the urban
                landscape--till they go somewhere else.

                Richard
                --
                Richard Risemberg
                http://www.living-room.org
                http://www.newcolonist.com

                "I believe that every right implies a responsibility; every opportunity,
                an obligation; every possession, a duty."
                John D. Rockefeller, Jr.
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