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RE: [carfree_cities] Re: producing oil from waste etc....

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  • Andrew Dawson
    ... That s understandable. ... My self I ve voted Liberal both provincialy and federaly, but with Martin (funny enough I once met him) and Charest. I don t
    Message 1 of 32 , Dec 2, 2003
      TF wrote:


      >From: "bumpkinbubba" <bumpkinbubba@...>
      >Reply-To: carfree_cities@yahoogroups.com
      >To: carfree_cities@yahoogroups.com
      >Subject: [carfree_cities] Re: producing oil from waste etc....
      >Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 18:13:02 -0000
      >
      >--- In carfree_cities@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew Dawson"
      ><m82a1_dawson@h...> wrote:
      > > TF, I noticed how you mentioned this lists almost polar opposite,
      > > "Transport-Policy" in your letter.
      >
      >
      >
      >TF: Only some of the members of each list are "polar opposites" of
      >the equally-limited-in-number, "in"-crowd of the other list. Others,
      >such as myself, see both smart and dumb things in _each_ of the two
      >(or any other two "polar opposite") lists.

      That's understandable.

      > > These two lists deal with issues from different perspectives, one
      >more from
      > > the right and one more from the left. One wants to tear down
      >cities, while
      > > one wants to rebuild them. One sees traffic congestion as problem,
      >while one
      > > sees it as a chance to move on.
      > > One says that government has failed, the other says that the market
      >has
      > > failed, the funny thing is that both are correct on this account.
      > >
      > > I like to consider my self as a "left of centre conservative",
      >
      >
      >
      >TF: Close enough; I've often called myself a "Carter Republican". I'm
      >a Republican who voted for Carter both times because Carter wanted to
      >make energy conservation the "moral equivalent of war".

      My self I've voted Liberal both provincialy and federaly, but with Martin
      (funny enough I once met him) and Charest. I don't know about the future,
      maybe (David Orchard, type) Tory.

      > > so I take
      > > some what of a middle of the road approach. I've worked at Canadian
      >Tire and
      > > Loblaws, so I've dealt with mufflers to tires and have spent
      >countless hours
      > > in parking lots. For some this is a wet dream, for some this is
      >nightmare.
      > >
      > > Also, just so you know there are highway boondoggles, as well as
      >transit
      > > boondoggles.
      > > In my locality, a proposed Autoroute 30 extension and the Laval
      >metro
      > > extension are examples.
      >
      >
      >
      >TF: Notice the textbook example, above, of the idiocy of making
      >assumptions about "polar opposites". Transit boondoggles? I'm _for_
      >transit!

      Sorry about that, it's just that I've seen some strange "highway math" along
      with wierd numbers for transit.

      >Even Amtrak's allegedly "unprofitable" route that I once took via
      >North Dakota, is more profitable than the high-friction-tire
      >monoculture when you count the fact that the high-friction-tire
      >monoculture has to break the law in order to keep expanding. Here's
      >the dirty little secret of how the high-friction tires retain their
      >monopoly: Around 1970, more and more highways were beginning to fill
      >up to several hundred percent of capacity due to non-enforcement of
      >speed and following distance laws. That was when it became time to
      >admit that the expansion of high-friction-tire transport had reached
      >the point of diminishing returns in these more-congested areas. The
      >problem wasn't a shortage of road space; rather, the problem was (and
      >still is) the erroneous attitude that the portion of the car-use
      >expansion that came about as a result of lawbreaking should be
      >accommodated.

      An interesting take on a situation. As for Amtrak (Via Rail as well), I
      think expanding the use of Auto Train like services to long distance lines
      could help.

      >I think _all_ highway expansions are boondoggles for the above
      >reason.

      That's one system that is pretty much complete, now it's time for transit
      and rail to get the money they deserve.

      > > For the private sector the Bell(Molson) Centre is also a boondoggle.
      > >
      > > I'm not against tolls on roads, so long as the money goes to things
      >like
      > > health care or education.
      > >
      > > Big box stores can be better, if they are built with their parking
      >beneath
      > > them and treat their workers with a little more respect.
      > >
      > > Pedestrians and transit are important just as with cars, when
      >planning
      > > transportation policy.
      > >
      > > Suburbs aren't bad (I live in one, St.Laurent), they've just been
      >made worse
      > > over the years.
      > >
      > > Also with this item: http://www.demographia.com/rac-montreal.pdf
      > > Economically, Montreal is lucky that there is no belt route and
      >that the
      > > trunk roads (A-20 & A-40) pass through on the island of Montreal.
      > > With the Ste.Julie photos, where are the sidewalks?
      > > As for Mirabel its problems (location and lack of proper road and
      >rail
      > > links) are more of a result of the provincial government then that
      >of the
      > > federal government.
      > >
      > > Till later, Andrew Dawson
      > >
      > > "bumpkinbubba" wrote:
      > > >This scheme was also discussed about one month ago on the "CarFree"
      > > >and "Transport-Policy" lists. The conclusions were that 1) The
      > > >garbage can't exist in the first place without mankind having
      > > >consumed _more_ energy when, a while earlier, mankind charged the
      > > >solar battery that is the garbage; and 2) The major problem,
      > > >therefore, that any success of the scheme might significantly
      >address
      > > >is not energy but rather, landfills.
      > > >
      > > >Still nothing to be sneezed at.
      >
      >
      >
      >TF: To which Jym Dyer replied that the carbon ought to stay locked up
      >in the landfills where it won't contribute to global warming.
      >
      >Well, does the major greenhouse gas, _methane_, mean anything to the
      >"in"-crowd of this "from the left" list?

      Producing electricity with it could be an option.

      >- BumpkinBubba, a puppet of the keystrokes of TF (Editor of the
      >Bicyclists' Rights Triad http://www.newmilfordbike.com/Triad.htm ),
      >signing off now to go back down under my bridge for a while.

      I'm more of a pedestrian than a cyclist, but congrats at your 2000 miles.

      Till later, Andrew Dawson

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    • Karen Sandness
      On 03.12.3 10: Message: 10 ... Actually, that s every twenty minutes during the off-hours. During peak hours the trains run every *five minutes*--and that s
      Message 32 of 32 , Dec 3, 2003
        On 03.12.3 10:> Message: 10
        > Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 07:28:12 -0800
        > From: Richard Risemberg <rickrise@...>
        > Subject: HSR
        >
        > Was recently on the bullet trains in Japan. 2000-passenger loads
        > leaving every twenty minutes from downtowns everywhere, the station a
        > short subway or taxi ride from anywhere in any town (think twenty
        > minutes max), three levels of service (pay a little more for fewer
        > stops). And they turn a profit!
        >
        Actually, that's every twenty minutes during the off-hours. During peak
        hours the trains run every *five minutes*--and that's just the bullet
        trains.

        On my trip three years ago, I was planning to take the train from Tokyo to
        visit some friends in Kamakura (home of the emblematic Great Buddha), which
        is perhaps 40 miles south. I phoned my friends to make arrangements and said
        that I would have to find out when the trains left.

        "Don't bother," my friend said. "The trains run every 12 minutes. Just give
        us a half-hour window of when you plan to leave Tokyo Station, and we'll be
        there to meet you."

        On that same trip, I road a country train that literally served as a school
        bus for junior and senior high school students who lived in villages that
        were too small to support a secondary school.

        Japan truly is transit heaven. On my last trip (spring 2002), I found a
        whole new railroad line running into Tokyo Station that had not been there
        before, and the subways are constantly under construction. They also have a
        second Shinkansen bullet train between Tokyo and Osaka on the drawing board
        (it would pass through different cities), because the existing one is
        reaching capacity.

        Despite their huge auto industry and some regrettable trends in the
        direction of car-oriented development in suburban areas, Japanese will be as
        ready as anyone in the world when the oil runs out.

        In transit,
        Karen Sandness
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