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Re: [carfree_cities] Oh, crap!

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  • Chris Loyd
    ... to ... How can a political party that had a 0.37% election share for the 2000 presidential race be seen as such a threat? The Greens are 10 times more
    Message 1 of 6 , Dec 1, 2003
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      > Uh-oh, it looks like somebody drank the Libertarian Kool-Aid. That said,
      > HOV lanes are in most of the U.S., mostly useless. Let them convert them
      to
      > regular lanes and watch how little things improve. Of course, the real
      > solution to the fiscal crisis would be to convert those lanes to HOT (High
      > Occupancy Toll), which at least would pull in revenue.

      How can a political party that had a 0.37% election share for the 2000
      presidential race be seen as such a threat? The Greens are 10 times more
      numerous/powerful than the Libertarians are. Also, how are freeways in
      anyway supported by the Libertarian philosophy? They were built under the
      guise of National Defense (huh?), violated property rights up the wazoo, and
      was a massive subsidy for the auto industry. Most aren't privatized in any
      way, shape or form, and most toll roads are about as competitive as the
      Municipal Power & Gas Utility. Finally, what would you think if the entire
      transportation system's government funding suddenly stopped, for all roads,
      buses, trains, planes, etc? No subsidies for any transit, no matter how
      effecient or desirable (and the taxes reduced accordingly, of course, but
      more likely the savings would go to War, er, Defense Department).

      > The Texas Transportation Institute's recent report puts public
      > transportation ivestment benefits way ahead of those in HOV lanes. Check
      > out mobility.tamu.edu for more.

      Lotsa stuff, the first analysis of traffic signals on entrance ramps that I
      have seen. Those are usually as good as people are willing to actually obey
      the red light.

      > "The next piece of the solution (to the state's "transportation
      > crisis") is to redistribute transportation revenues away from costly
      transit
      > programs to pay for more freeway lanes in the most congested areas . . .
      We
      > must convert the High Occupancy Vehicle Lanes (HOV) to free flow lanes, so
      > that all the taxpayers who paid for those lanes and are now sitting in
      > traffic jams can use them."

      Is the California government trying to make life miserable for Californians,
      or do they want to find a way to keep people from moving there and driving
      up land values?

      Just how many HOV lanes are there on a given freeway in California??
      Opening up the HOV lanes in Houston would gain a whole lane for only one
      direction of traffic, not counting the diamond lanes. The diamond lanes are
      frequently used as passing lanes anyway.
    • Patrick McDonough
      The political party itself and it s miniscule numbers are not a threat. The well-paid anti-transit zealots who are paid to traverse the country and trash
      Message 2 of 6 , Dec 1, 2003
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        The political party itself and it's miniscule numbers are not a threat. The
        well-paid anti-transit zealots who are paid to traverse the country and
        trash transit projects are because regardless of the utterly duplicitous
        research that people like Randal O'Toole and Wendell Cox churn out, they are
        considered transportation "experts" by many in America, and can and do
        influendce policy. Visit http://www.americandreamcoalition.org/ for more
        information.

        While this group is still a fringe bunch, (their yahoo group is often
        discussing smart growth in terms of UN conspiracies and black helicopters)
        their effectiveness at placing their message in major print and online media
        outlets is nonetheless impressive.

        Patrick McDonough


        -----Original Message-----
        From: Chris Loyd [mailto:tybalt@...]
        Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 6:51 AM
        To: carfree_cities@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [carfree_cities] Oh, crap!


        > Uh-oh, it looks like somebody drank the Libertarian Kool-Aid. That
        > said, HOV lanes are in most of the U.S., mostly useless. Let them
        > convert them
        to
        > regular lanes and watch how little things improve. Of course, the
        > real solution to the fiscal crisis would be to convert those lanes to
        > HOT (High Occupancy Toll), which at least would pull in revenue.

        How can a political party that had a 0.37% election share for the 2000
        presidential race be seen as such a threat? The Greens are 10 times more
        numerous/powerful than the Libertarians are. Also, how are freeways in
        anyway supported by the Libertarian philosophy? They were built under the
        guise of National Defense (huh?), violated property rights up the wazoo, and
        was a massive subsidy for the auto industry. Most aren't privatized in any
        way, shape or form, and most toll roads are about as competitive as the
        Municipal Power & Gas Utility. Finally, what would you think if the entire
        transportation system's government funding suddenly stopped, for all roads,
        buses, trains, planes, etc? No subsidies for any transit, no matter how
        effecient or desirable (and the taxes reduced accordingly, of course, but
        more likely the savings would go to War, er, Defense Department).

        > The Texas Transportation Institute's recent report puts public
        > transportation ivestment benefits way ahead of those in HOV lanes.
        > Check out mobility.tamu.edu for more.

        Lotsa stuff, the first analysis of traffic signals on entrance ramps that I
        have seen. Those are usually as good as people are willing to actually obey
        the red light.

        > "The next piece of the solution (to the state's "transportation
        > crisis") is to redistribute transportation revenues away from costly
        transit
        > programs to pay for more freeway lanes in the most congested areas . .
        > .
        We
        > must convert the High Occupancy Vehicle Lanes (HOV) to free flow
        > lanes, so that all the taxpayers who paid for those lanes and are now
        > sitting in traffic jams can use them."

        Is the California government trying to make life miserable for Californians,
        or do they want to find a way to keep people from moving there and driving
        up land values?

        Just how many HOV lanes are there on a given freeway in California?? Opening
        up the HOV lanes in Houston would gain a whole lane for only one direction
        of traffic, not counting the diamond lanes. The diamond lanes are
        frequently used as passing lanes anyway.



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      • Jym Dyer
        ... =v= Things will improve in the short run, though perhaps by shifting a bottleneck to somewhere else, and the Arnolds of the world will talk about widening
        Message 3 of 6 , Dec 1, 2003
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          > HOV lanes are in most of the U.S., mostly useless.
          > Let them convert them to regular lanes and watch how
          > little things improve.

          =v= Things will improve in the short run, though perhaps by
          shifting a bottleneck to somewhere else, and the Arnolds of
          the world will talk about widening things at that location.

          =v= But how is this policy even possible? Every Californian
          HOV lane I know of was part of a clean air requirement, in
          which widening a freeway could only be permitted if it was
          "mitigated" by making it an HOV lane. I suspect this plan
          has something to do with the Bush Administration's zealous
          nonenforcement of environmental laws.
          <_Jym_>
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