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Oh, crap!

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  • Richard Risemberg
    The next piece of the solution (to the state s transportation crisis ) is to redistribute transportation revenues away from costly transit programs to pay
    Message 1 of 6 , Nov 30, 2003
      "The next piece of the solution (to the state's "transportation
      crisis") is to redistribute transportation revenues away from costly
      transit programs to pay for more freeway lanes in the most congested
      areas . . . We must convert the High Occupancy Vehicle Lanes (HOV) to
      free flow lanes, so that all the taxpayers who paid for those lanes and
      are now sitting in traffic jams can use them."

      Arnold Schwarzenegger, governor-elect
      --
      Richard Risemberg
      http://www.living-room.org
      http://www.newcolonist.com

      "I believe that every right implies a responsibility; every opportunity,
      an obligation; every possession, a duty."
      John D. Rockefeller, Jr.
    • Patrick McDonough
      Uh-oh, it looks like somebody drank the Libertarian Kool-Aid. That said, HOV lanes are in most of the U.S., mostly useless. Let them convert them to regular
      Message 2 of 6 , Nov 30, 2003
        Uh-oh, it looks like somebody drank the Libertarian Kool-Aid. That said,
        HOV lanes are in most of the U.S., mostly useless. Let them convert them to
        regular lanes and watch how little things improve. Of course, the real
        solution to the fiscal crisis would be to convert those lanes to HOT (High
        Occupancy Toll), which at least would pull in revenue.

        The Texas Transportation Institute's recent report puts public
        transportation ivestment benefits way ahead of those in HOV lanes. Check
        out mobility.tamu.edu for more.

        Patrick McDonough

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Richard Risemberg [mailto:rickrise@...]
        Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2003 3:20 PM
        To: Urban Ecology; carfree_cities@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [carfree_cities] Oh, crap!


        "The next piece of the solution (to the state's "transportation
        crisis") is to redistribute transportation revenues away from costly transit
        programs to pay for more freeway lanes in the most congested areas . . . We
        must convert the High Occupancy Vehicle Lanes (HOV) to free flow lanes, so
        that all the taxpayers who paid for those lanes and are now sitting in
        traffic jams can use them."

        Arnold Schwarzenegger, governor-elect
        --
        Richard Risemberg
        http://www.living-room.org
        http://www.newcolonist.com
      • Andrew Dawson
        So basically what your governor is saying, is Instead of reducing debt, I ll try to increase it ? Andrew ...
        Message 3 of 6 , Nov 30, 2003
          So basically what your governor is saying, is "Instead of reducing debt,
          I'll try to increase it"? Andrew


          >From: Richard Risemberg <rickrise@...>
          >Reply-To: carfree_cities@yahoogroups.com
          >To: Urban Ecology <urban-ecology@yahoogroups.com>,
          >carfree_cities@yahoogroups.com
          >Subject: [carfree_cities] Oh, crap!
          >Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 12:19:39 -0800
          >
          >"The next piece of the solution (to the state's "transportation
          >crisis") is to redistribute transportation revenues away from costly
          >transit programs to pay for more freeway lanes in the most congested
          >areas . . . We must convert the High Occupancy Vehicle Lanes (HOV) to
          >free flow lanes, so that all the taxpayers who paid for those lanes and
          >are now sitting in traffic jams can use them."
          >
          >Arnold Schwarzenegger, governor-elect
          >--
          >Richard Risemberg
          >http://www.living-room.org
          >http://www.newcolonist.com
          >
          >"I believe that every right implies a responsibility; every opportunity,
          >an obligation; every possession, a duty."
          > John D. Rockefeller, Jr.
          >
          >
          >To Post a message, send it to: carfree_cities@...
          >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
          >carfree_cities-unsubscribe@...
          >Group address: http://www.egroups.com/group/carfree_cities/
          >
          >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >

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        • Chris Loyd
          ... to ... How can a political party that had a 0.37% election share for the 2000 presidential race be seen as such a threat? The Greens are 10 times more
          Message 4 of 6 , Dec 1, 2003
            > Uh-oh, it looks like somebody drank the Libertarian Kool-Aid. That said,
            > HOV lanes are in most of the U.S., mostly useless. Let them convert them
            to
            > regular lanes and watch how little things improve. Of course, the real
            > solution to the fiscal crisis would be to convert those lanes to HOT (High
            > Occupancy Toll), which at least would pull in revenue.

            How can a political party that had a 0.37% election share for the 2000
            presidential race be seen as such a threat? The Greens are 10 times more
            numerous/powerful than the Libertarians are. Also, how are freeways in
            anyway supported by the Libertarian philosophy? They were built under the
            guise of National Defense (huh?), violated property rights up the wazoo, and
            was a massive subsidy for the auto industry. Most aren't privatized in any
            way, shape or form, and most toll roads are about as competitive as the
            Municipal Power & Gas Utility. Finally, what would you think if the entire
            transportation system's government funding suddenly stopped, for all roads,
            buses, trains, planes, etc? No subsidies for any transit, no matter how
            effecient or desirable (and the taxes reduced accordingly, of course, but
            more likely the savings would go to War, er, Defense Department).

            > The Texas Transportation Institute's recent report puts public
            > transportation ivestment benefits way ahead of those in HOV lanes. Check
            > out mobility.tamu.edu for more.

            Lotsa stuff, the first analysis of traffic signals on entrance ramps that I
            have seen. Those are usually as good as people are willing to actually obey
            the red light.

            > "The next piece of the solution (to the state's "transportation
            > crisis") is to redistribute transportation revenues away from costly
            transit
            > programs to pay for more freeway lanes in the most congested areas . . .
            We
            > must convert the High Occupancy Vehicle Lanes (HOV) to free flow lanes, so
            > that all the taxpayers who paid for those lanes and are now sitting in
            > traffic jams can use them."

            Is the California government trying to make life miserable for Californians,
            or do they want to find a way to keep people from moving there and driving
            up land values?

            Just how many HOV lanes are there on a given freeway in California??
            Opening up the HOV lanes in Houston would gain a whole lane for only one
            direction of traffic, not counting the diamond lanes. The diamond lanes are
            frequently used as passing lanes anyway.
          • Patrick McDonough
            The political party itself and it s miniscule numbers are not a threat. The well-paid anti-transit zealots who are paid to traverse the country and trash
            Message 5 of 6 , Dec 1, 2003
              The political party itself and it's miniscule numbers are not a threat. The
              well-paid anti-transit zealots who are paid to traverse the country and
              trash transit projects are because regardless of the utterly duplicitous
              research that people like Randal O'Toole and Wendell Cox churn out, they are
              considered transportation "experts" by many in America, and can and do
              influendce policy. Visit http://www.americandreamcoalition.org/ for more
              information.

              While this group is still a fringe bunch, (their yahoo group is often
              discussing smart growth in terms of UN conspiracies and black helicopters)
              their effectiveness at placing their message in major print and online media
              outlets is nonetheless impressive.

              Patrick McDonough


              -----Original Message-----
              From: Chris Loyd [mailto:tybalt@...]
              Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 6:51 AM
              To: carfree_cities@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [carfree_cities] Oh, crap!


              > Uh-oh, it looks like somebody drank the Libertarian Kool-Aid. That
              > said, HOV lanes are in most of the U.S., mostly useless. Let them
              > convert them
              to
              > regular lanes and watch how little things improve. Of course, the
              > real solution to the fiscal crisis would be to convert those lanes to
              > HOT (High Occupancy Toll), which at least would pull in revenue.

              How can a political party that had a 0.37% election share for the 2000
              presidential race be seen as such a threat? The Greens are 10 times more
              numerous/powerful than the Libertarians are. Also, how are freeways in
              anyway supported by the Libertarian philosophy? They were built under the
              guise of National Defense (huh?), violated property rights up the wazoo, and
              was a massive subsidy for the auto industry. Most aren't privatized in any
              way, shape or form, and most toll roads are about as competitive as the
              Municipal Power & Gas Utility. Finally, what would you think if the entire
              transportation system's government funding suddenly stopped, for all roads,
              buses, trains, planes, etc? No subsidies for any transit, no matter how
              effecient or desirable (and the taxes reduced accordingly, of course, but
              more likely the savings would go to War, er, Defense Department).

              > The Texas Transportation Institute's recent report puts public
              > transportation ivestment benefits way ahead of those in HOV lanes.
              > Check out mobility.tamu.edu for more.

              Lotsa stuff, the first analysis of traffic signals on entrance ramps that I
              have seen. Those are usually as good as people are willing to actually obey
              the red light.

              > "The next piece of the solution (to the state's "transportation
              > crisis") is to redistribute transportation revenues away from costly
              transit
              > programs to pay for more freeway lanes in the most congested areas . .
              > .
              We
              > must convert the High Occupancy Vehicle Lanes (HOV) to free flow
              > lanes, so that all the taxpayers who paid for those lanes and are now
              > sitting in traffic jams can use them."

              Is the California government trying to make life miserable for Californians,
              or do they want to find a way to keep people from moving there and driving
              up land values?

              Just how many HOV lanes are there on a given freeway in California?? Opening
              up the HOV lanes in Houston would gain a whole lane for only one direction
              of traffic, not counting the diamond lanes. The diamond lanes are
              frequently used as passing lanes anyway.



              To Post a message, send it to: carfree_cities@...
              To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
              carfree_cities-unsubscribe@...
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            • Jym Dyer
              ... =v= Things will improve in the short run, though perhaps by shifting a bottleneck to somewhere else, and the Arnolds of the world will talk about widening
              Message 6 of 6 , Dec 1, 2003
                > HOV lanes are in most of the U.S., mostly useless.
                > Let them convert them to regular lanes and watch how
                > little things improve.

                =v= Things will improve in the short run, though perhaps by
                shifting a bottleneck to somewhere else, and the Arnolds of
                the world will talk about widening things at that location.

                =v= But how is this policy even possible? Every Californian
                HOV lane I know of was part of a clean air requirement, in
                which widening a freeway could only be permitted if it was
                "mitigated" by making it an HOV lane. I suspect this plan
                has something to do with the Bush Administration's zealous
                nonenforcement of environmental laws.
                <_Jym_>
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