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Re: [carfree_cities] Re: Urban automobile cost per mile

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  • Mark Christiansen
    And that s a bad thing in this discussion? :) From what I ve observed, the US is the biggest contributor to the car problem and thus US comments are important
    Message 1 of 23 , Mar 4, 2003
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      And that's a bad thing in this discussion? :) From what I've observed, the US is the biggest contributor to the car problem and thus US comments are important in this discussion.

      Health care cost is a factor in the financial picture for US citizens. Of course, if I am healthier, then I can use my time off to vacation instead of mope around the house with the flu, so I may spend more money in the end. :)

      The cost picture is complicated. Any one of us could type pages of cost considerations for somebody trying to decide if it is financially a good idea to ride a bike more or to abandon the automobile entirely. Carefully chosen considerations will show that a car is really the best financial choice and other carefully chosen considerations will show that a car is not the best financial choice.

      Mark

      Life is what happens when you are busy making other plans.
      -- John Lennon

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Jason Davies
      To: carfree_cities@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 9:07 AM
      Subject: Re: [carfree_cities] Re: Urban automobile cost per mile


      >In addition to that, there are potential health cost reductions from
      >being in better physical condition.


      see? US-centred, again:-)


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Jason Davies
      ... yes, true, but my experience on mailing lists of all kinds is that topics rapidly become irrelevant to anyone else but the US; and it is frustrating to be
      Message 2 of 23 , Mar 4, 2003
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        >And that's a bad thing in this discussion? :) From what I've
        >observed, the US is the biggest contributor to the car problem and
        >thus US comments are important in this discussion.


        yes, true, but my experience on mailing lists of all kinds is that topics
        rapidly become irrelevant to anyone else but the US; and it is frustrating
        to be told firstly that my calculations are wrong, secondly that my
        calculations are flawed, thirdly that I am not taking into account various
        other factors, fourthly to be told that there are factors I have missed
        (which I didn't , because they are irrelevant in my explicitly UK-based
        comment) and fifthly that I have missed some US-specific factors!

        by all means expand on what I said but I got the feeling that I had somehow
        done it 'wrong' and that the original small snippet of information was in
        danger of drowning..
        --

        Too late to die young...
      • Andras Toth
        Fascinating discussion indeed... to which I would like to add an even more international dimension. Being Hungarian, I have cycled on a day-to-day basis in
        Message 3 of 23 , Mar 6, 2003
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          Fascinating discussion indeed... to which I would like to add an even
          more international dimension.


          Being Hungarian, I have cycled on a day-to-day basis in France,
          Belgium and Hungary, and I have been in touch with bicycle advocacy
          groups everywhere. They all use the health argument.


          Obesity is NOT a US-only problem. It is particularly present in
          Hungary where we traditionally eat too much and too fat.* And I bet
          health experts in the UK would not deny its presence either. It is
          simply a disease related to the nature of western consumerist culture.


          I understand Jason is talking about his own particular case and he
          never meant to speak for the average. However I think there could be a
          point in making cost calculations for the average cyclist and food
          consumer in each country with the help of available national
          statitics, and use that as a reference. What we here could come up
          with is a common method of calculation. Any suggestions?




          Andras Toth


          Budapest




          * Laughing, eh? Not very polite of you! We call ourselves "magyar", we
          did not invent the starving English name. One more example of the
          built-in bias in the English language !
        • Jason Davies
          ... It is going to be very approximate. A bike can cost anything from £50 second hand to £3,000. The London Cycling Campaign might have something they have
          Message 4 of 23 , Mar 6, 2003
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            >However I think there could be a
            >point in making cost calculations for the average cyclist and food
            >consumer in each country with the help of available national
            >statitics, and use that as a reference. What we here could come up
            >with is a common method of calculation. Any suggestions?
            >


            It is going to be very approximate. A bike can cost anything from £50
            second hand to £3,000. The London Cycling Campaign might have something
            they have come up with for London. As I said, London is particularly tough
            on wheels (to be honest, it depends on where you live).

            various companies have (finally) started costing cycling as an expense. I
            don't have any figures but I have seen mention of them; obviously they must
            be working with something. But of course, car expenses are traditionally
            overpaid...:-) I wonder if they did the same thing with bikes...
            --
            What follows is a real-life A level exam entry...

            ...Agamemnon has little respect for nobbless oblidged in this passage.
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