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Re: [carfree_cities] Re: Urban automobile cost per mile

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  • Jason Davies
    ... oh, except that the only time I have cost the NHS anything since I was 11 is when I have been knocked off my bike:-) seriously though, while I realise all
    Message 1 of 23 , Mar 4, 2003
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      >In addition to that, there are potential health cost reductions from
      >being in better physical condition.


      oh, except that the only time I have cost the NHS anything since I was 11
      is when I have been knocked off my bike:-)

      seriously though, while I realise all these considerations are part of
      whether it is *worth* cycling, they have no bearing on the cold
      calculations. It does cost to ride a bike in reasonable condition and an
      amount that a small budget definitely notices. You can't cook teh books by
      saying that you will feel better for it. There are health benefits but
      there are financial costs. I can't tell my bank manager to give me an
      overdraft because I am fitter than he is, can I?

      This conversation is very bemusing...I shall desist from it from now on...
      --
      Let me see if I have this right...a President elected in a questionable election and a Prime Minister faced with the biggest demonstration in British history are going, without the support of the UN, to invade Iraq and make the government there more, er, *accountable.*? Did I miss something?
    • Mark Christiansen
      And that s a bad thing in this discussion? :) From what I ve observed, the US is the biggest contributor to the car problem and thus US comments are important
      Message 2 of 23 , Mar 4, 2003
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        And that's a bad thing in this discussion? :) From what I've observed, the US is the biggest contributor to the car problem and thus US comments are important in this discussion.

        Health care cost is a factor in the financial picture for US citizens. Of course, if I am healthier, then I can use my time off to vacation instead of mope around the house with the flu, so I may spend more money in the end. :)

        The cost picture is complicated. Any one of us could type pages of cost considerations for somebody trying to decide if it is financially a good idea to ride a bike more or to abandon the automobile entirely. Carefully chosen considerations will show that a car is really the best financial choice and other carefully chosen considerations will show that a car is not the best financial choice.

        Mark

        Life is what happens when you are busy making other plans.
        -- John Lennon

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Jason Davies
        To: carfree_cities@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 9:07 AM
        Subject: Re: [carfree_cities] Re: Urban automobile cost per mile


        >In addition to that, there are potential health cost reductions from
        >being in better physical condition.


        see? US-centred, again:-)


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Jason Davies
        ... yes, true, but my experience on mailing lists of all kinds is that topics rapidly become irrelevant to anyone else but the US; and it is frustrating to be
        Message 3 of 23 , Mar 4, 2003
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          >And that's a bad thing in this discussion? :) From what I've
          >observed, the US is the biggest contributor to the car problem and
          >thus US comments are important in this discussion.


          yes, true, but my experience on mailing lists of all kinds is that topics
          rapidly become irrelevant to anyone else but the US; and it is frustrating
          to be told firstly that my calculations are wrong, secondly that my
          calculations are flawed, thirdly that I am not taking into account various
          other factors, fourthly to be told that there are factors I have missed
          (which I didn't , because they are irrelevant in my explicitly UK-based
          comment) and fifthly that I have missed some US-specific factors!

          by all means expand on what I said but I got the feeling that I had somehow
          done it 'wrong' and that the original small snippet of information was in
          danger of drowning..
          --

          Too late to die young...
        • Andras Toth
          Fascinating discussion indeed... to which I would like to add an even more international dimension. Being Hungarian, I have cycled on a day-to-day basis in
          Message 4 of 23 , Mar 6, 2003
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            Fascinating discussion indeed... to which I would like to add an even
            more international dimension.


            Being Hungarian, I have cycled on a day-to-day basis in France,
            Belgium and Hungary, and I have been in touch with bicycle advocacy
            groups everywhere. They all use the health argument.


            Obesity is NOT a US-only problem. It is particularly present in
            Hungary where we traditionally eat too much and too fat.* And I bet
            health experts in the UK would not deny its presence either. It is
            simply a disease related to the nature of western consumerist culture.


            I understand Jason is talking about his own particular case and he
            never meant to speak for the average. However I think there could be a
            point in making cost calculations for the average cyclist and food
            consumer in each country with the help of available national
            statitics, and use that as a reference. What we here could come up
            with is a common method of calculation. Any suggestions?




            Andras Toth


            Budapest




            * Laughing, eh? Not very polite of you! We call ourselves "magyar", we
            did not invent the starving English name. One more example of the
            built-in bias in the English language !
          • Jason Davies
            ... It is going to be very approximate. A bike can cost anything from £50 second hand to £3,000. The London Cycling Campaign might have something they have
            Message 5 of 23 , Mar 6, 2003
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              >However I think there could be a
              >point in making cost calculations for the average cyclist and food
              >consumer in each country with the help of available national
              >statitics, and use that as a reference. What we here could come up
              >with is a common method of calculation. Any suggestions?
              >


              It is going to be very approximate. A bike can cost anything from £50
              second hand to £3,000. The London Cycling Campaign might have something
              they have come up with for London. As I said, London is particularly tough
              on wheels (to be honest, it depends on where you live).

              various companies have (finally) started costing cycling as an expense. I
              don't have any figures but I have seen mention of them; obviously they must
              be working with something. But of course, car expenses are traditionally
              overpaid...:-) I wonder if they did the same thing with bikes...
              --
              What follows is a real-life A level exam entry...

              ...Agamemnon has little respect for nobbless oblidged in this passage.
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