Re: [carfree_cities] Re: Urban automobile cost per mile
>In addition to that, there are potential health cost reductions fromoh, except that the only time I have cost the NHS anything since I was 11
>being in better physical condition.
is when I have been knocked off my bike:-)
seriously though, while I realise all these considerations are part of
whether it is *worth* cycling, they have no bearing on the cold
calculations. It does cost to ride a bike in reasonable condition and an
amount that a small budget definitely notices. You can't cook teh books by
saying that you will feel better for it. There are health benefits but
there are financial costs. I can't tell my bank manager to give me an
overdraft because I am fitter than he is, can I?
This conversation is very bemusing...I shall desist from it from now on...
Let me see if I have this right...a President elected in a questionable election and a Prime Minister faced with the biggest demonstration in British history are going, without the support of the UN, to invade Iraq and make the government there more, er, *accountable.*? Did I miss something?
- And that's a bad thing in this discussion? :) From what I've observed, the US is the biggest contributor to the car problem and thus US comments are important in this discussion.
Health care cost is a factor in the financial picture for US citizens. Of course, if I am healthier, then I can use my time off to vacation instead of mope around the house with the flu, so I may spend more money in the end. :)
The cost picture is complicated. Any one of us could type pages of cost considerations for somebody trying to decide if it is financially a good idea to ride a bike more or to abandon the automobile entirely. Carefully chosen considerations will show that a car is really the best financial choice and other carefully chosen considerations will show that a car is not the best financial choice.
Life is what happens when you are busy making other plans.
-- John Lennon
----- Original Message -----
From: Jason Davies
Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 9:07 AM
Subject: Re: [carfree_cities] Re: Urban automobile cost per mile
>In addition to that, there are potential health cost reductions from
>being in better physical condition.
see? US-centred, again:-)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>And that's a bad thing in this discussion? :) From what I'veyes, true, but my experience on mailing lists of all kinds is that topics
>observed, the US is the biggest contributor to the car problem and
>thus US comments are important in this discussion.
rapidly become irrelevant to anyone else but the US; and it is frustrating
to be told firstly that my calculations are wrong, secondly that my
calculations are flawed, thirdly that I am not taking into account various
other factors, fourthly to be told that there are factors I have missed
(which I didn't , because they are irrelevant in my explicitly UK-based
comment) and fifthly that I have missed some US-specific factors!
by all means expand on what I said but I got the feeling that I had somehow
done it 'wrong' and that the original small snippet of information was in
danger of drowning..
Too late to die young...
- Fascinating discussion indeed... to which I would like to add an even
more international dimension.
Being Hungarian, I have cycled on a day-to-day basis in France,
Belgium and Hungary, and I have been in touch with bicycle advocacy
groups everywhere. They all use the health argument.
Obesity is NOT a US-only problem. It is particularly present in
Hungary where we traditionally eat too much and too fat.* And I bet
health experts in the UK would not deny its presence either. It is
simply a disease related to the nature of western consumerist culture.
I understand Jason is talking about his own particular case and he
never meant to speak for the average. However I think there could be a
point in making cost calculations for the average cyclist and food
consumer in each country with the help of available national
statitics, and use that as a reference. What we here could come up
with is a common method of calculation. Any suggestions?
* Laughing, eh? Not very polite of you! We call ourselves "magyar", we
did not invent the starving English name. One more example of the
built-in bias in the English language !
>However I think there could be aIt is going to be very approximate. A bike can cost anything from £50
>point in making cost calculations for the average cyclist and food
>consumer in each country with the help of available national
>statitics, and use that as a reference. What we here could come up
>with is a common method of calculation. Any suggestions?
second hand to £3,000. The London Cycling Campaign might have something
they have come up with for London. As I said, London is particularly tough
on wheels (to be honest, it depends on where you live).
various companies have (finally) started costing cycling as an expense. I
don't have any figures but I have seen mention of them; obviously they must
be working with something. But of course, car expenses are traditionally
overpaid...:-) I wonder if they did the same thing with bikes...
What follows is a real-life A level exam entry...
...Agamemnon has little respect for nobbless oblidged in this passage.