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Re: [carfree_cities] My observations of master-plan communities

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  • John O. Andersen
    Richard, ... Yes, that is precisely the point. I think the more we put out the word in the form of provocative essays, the more interest we can generate for
    Message 1 of 7 , Dec 16, 2002
      Richard,

      > Once inner cities becomes places of pleasure and convenience, full of
      > richness and delight and easy to live and work in, the suburbs will
      > wither as regular folks vote with their feet.

      Yes, that is precisely the point. I think the more we put out the word in
      the form of provocative essays, the more interest we can generate for urban
      living.

      Through my website, I get lots of feedback from dissatisfied people who want
      more meaning in life. And I'm relatively certain that's just the tip of the
      iceberg.


      John
    • tenpagyatso <tenpagyatso@yahoo.com>
      ... I believe the answer is that the people you are referring to don t actually want real urban living. They want exactly what you just described. I m also
      Message 2 of 7 , Dec 17, 2002
        --- In carfree_cities@yahoogroups.com, "John O. Andersen"
        <editor@u...> wrote:
        > So my question is why waste your money on fake communities? If you want
        > real urban living, move downtown.

        I believe the answer is that the people you are referring to don't
        actually want 'real' urban living. They want exactly what you just
        described. I'm also of the opinion that there is more than a little
        of that (subtle and many times not-so-subtle) brand of American
        racism/classism.

        My wife and I live in the center of our fair city: Milwaukee, WI.
        White flight is so obvious here but it still doesn't seem to be
        addressed in the mainstream.

        - Steven
      • Mike Harrington
        White flight is more of a northern phenomenon than a southern one. Although the new suburbs in Houston and Dallas are in majority white, not all of them are,
        Message 3 of 7 , Dec 17, 2002
          White flight is more of a northern phenomenon than a southern one. Although
          the new suburbs in Houston and Dallas are in majority white, not all of them
          are, and there are visibly more blacks and Hispanics living in the suburban
          and rural areas than in the northern US. In fact, in those two cities at
          least, the more affluent areas are usually closer in to the urban cores, and
          people who can will pay higher housing prices to avoid time-consuming
          commuting. In Houston, the housing prices jump way up once you get close to
          and inside the inner loop freeway 610. The fastest-growing element of the
          population are Hispanics, and it seems to me they are settling everywhere at
          once, rural and urban, in Texas at least.

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: <tenpagyatso@...>
          To: <carfree_cities@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 11:26 AM
          Subject: [carfree_cities] Re: My observations of master-plan communities


          > --- In carfree_cities@yahoogroups.com, "John O. Andersen"
          > <editor@u...> wrote:
          > > So my question is why waste your money on fake communities? If you want
          > > real urban living, move downtown.
          >
          > I believe the answer is that the people you are referring to don't
          > actually want 'real' urban living. They want exactly what you just
          > described. I'm also of the opinion that there is more than a little
          > of that (subtle and many times not-so-subtle) brand of American
          > racism/classism.
          >
          > My wife and I live in the center of our fair city: Milwaukee, WI.
          > White flight is so obvious here but it still doesn't seem to be
          > addressed in the mainstream.
          >
          > - Steven
          >
          >
          >
          > To Post a message, send it to: carfree_cities@...
          > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
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          > Group address: http://www.egroups.com/group/carfree_cities/
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >
          >
        • John O. Andersen
          Steven, I think you ve nailed it. People want the appearance of urban living, not the real thing. It s just like people who decorate their homes with all
          Message 4 of 7 , Dec 18, 2002
            Steven,

            I think you've nailed it. People want the appearance of urban living, not
            the real thing.

            It's just like people who decorate their homes with all sorts of
            sophisticated paintings and furnishings, but don't know the first thing
            about the history behind them, or history in general.

            It's all for effect.

            John Andersen
            Unconventional Ideas at http://www.unconventionalideas.com
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: <tenpagyatso@...>
            To: <carfree_cities@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 9:26 AM
            Subject: [carfree_cities] Re: My observations of master-plan communities


            > --- In carfree_cities@yahoogroups.com, "John O. Andersen"
            > <editor@u...> wrote:
            > > So my question is why waste your money on fake communities? If you want
            > > real urban living, move downtown.
            >
            > I believe the answer is that the people you are referring to don't
            > actually want 'real' urban living. They want exactly what you just
            > described. I'm also of the opinion that there is more than a little
            > of that (subtle and many times not-so-subtle) brand of American
            > racism/classism.
            >
            > My wife and I live in the center of our fair city: Milwaukee, WI.
            > White flight is so obvious here but it still doesn't seem to be
            > addressed in the mainstream.
            >
            > - Steven
            >
            >
            >
            > To Post a message, send it to: carfree_cities@...
            > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
            carfree_cities-unsubscribe@...
            > Group address: http://www.egroups.com/group/carfree_cities/
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >
          • tenpagyatso <tenpagyatso@yahoo.com>
            First, thanks for the follow-up. In Milwaukee not only is white-flight a reality but the city has fostered a relatively large amount of housing development in
            Message 5 of 7 , Dec 20, 2002
              First, thanks for the follow-up.

              In Milwaukee not only is white-flight a reality but the city has
              fostered a relatively large amount of housing development in the
              downtown area. So we have something similar as to what you describe
              in Texas.

              However, Milwaukee still has a city-center that is crumbling from
              poverty and all that comes with it (high unemployment rate, houses
              being torn down, higher density of crime, etc.). So while we have
              some wealthier people heading into downtown to live in the new
              developments there is still a lareg number of people who have left the
              city (and county) for the burbs. And of course Milwaukee city and
              county is suffering from budgetary shortfalls.

              --- In carfree_cities@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Harrington" <mike@p...>
              wrote:
              > White flight is more of a northern phenomenon than a southern one.
              Although
              > the new suburbs in Houston and Dallas are in majority white, not all
              of them
              > are, and there are visibly more blacks and Hispanics living in the
              suburban
              > and rural areas than in the northern US. In fact, in those two
              cities at
              > least, the more affluent areas are usually closer in to the urban
              cores, and
              > people who can will pay higher housing prices to avoid time-consuming
              > commuting. In Houston, the housing prices jump way up once you get
              close to
              > and inside the inner loop freeway 610. The fastest-growing element
              of the
              > population are Hispanics, and it seems to me they are settling
              everywhere at
              > once, rural and urban, in Texas at least.
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: <tenpagyatso@y...>
              > To: <carfree_cities@yahoogroups.com>
              > Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 11:26 AM
              > Subject: [carfree_cities] Re: My observations of master-plan communities
              >
              >
              > > --- In carfree_cities@yahoogroups.com, "John O. Andersen"
              > > <editor@u...> wrote:
              > > > So my question is why waste your money on fake communities? If
              you want
              > > > real urban living, move downtown.
              > >
              > > I believe the answer is that the people you are referring to don't
              > > actually want 'real' urban living. They want exactly what you just
              > > described. I'm also of the opinion that there is more than a little
              > > of that (subtle and many times not-so-subtle) brand of American
              > > racism/classism.
              > >
              > > My wife and I live in the center of our fair city: Milwaukee, WI.
              > > White flight is so obvious here but it still doesn't seem to be
              > > addressed in the mainstream.
              > >
              > > - Steven
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > To Post a message, send it to: carfree_cities@e...
              > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
              > carfree_cities-unsubscribe@e...
              > > Group address: http://www.egroups.com/group/carfree_cities/
              > >
              > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
              http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              > >
              > >
              > >
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